NorCal appraisers had their meeting today; watch for a website to end this dilemma. We hope to have it running within a week.

David, I have to say, you hit it right on the head, It is all THE APPRAISER'S fault. They themselves caused all of this mess. Number 1.- By inflating values, and later by accepting work from the AMCs at half the price like cheap prostitutes. In their 'stupidity' those appraisers thought they were getting ahead, without realizing that they were laying the foundation for the AMCs to grow into what they are now. If every single appraiser would have turned down the AMCs' recruitment thecniques, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now. As much as I know, there are very few appraiser's that would rather 'hang the glove' per se, rather than "WORKING FOR FOOD" as most "appraisers" do now. The solution for this problem would be just simple if we all had a little of intelligence, but do we?? I doubt it. There were, there are, and will always be those, again, who'd think they are getting ahead by accepting work from AMCs while the rest of us are not in order to solve the problem. So you see? it is like a vicious circle. I read another comment, we need "A UNION".... is he crazy or what?? We are "PROFESSIONALS", Professinal do not Unionize. A GUILD maybe, perhaps..... but a union??? this's crazy. The only way to get out of this mess, would be if we got together, I mean together, and not accept work from the AMCs even at the cost to starve for some time, but trust me that would be impossible, not to may smart ones around. Again, there will be those who would think this an opportunity to "make money" and not realize all they are earning is PEANUTS.

David, I have to say, you hit it right on the head, It is all THE APPRAISER'S fault. They themselves caused all of this mess. Number 1.- By inflating values, and later by accepting work from the AMCs at half the price like cheap prostitutes. In their 'stupidity' those appraisers thought they were getting ahead, without realizing that they were laying the foundation for the AMCs to grow into what they are now. If every single appraiser would have turned down the AMCs' recruitment thecniques, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now. As much as I know, there are very few appraiser's that would rather 'hang the glove' per se, rather than "WORKING FOR FOOD" as most "appraisers" do now. The solution for this problem would be just simple if we all had a little of intelligence, but do we?? I doubt it. There were, there are, and will always be those, again, who'd think they are getting ahead by accepting work from AMCs while the rest of us are not in order to solve the problem. So you see? it is like a vicious circle. I read another comment, we need "A UNION".... is he crazy or what?? We are "PROFESSIONALS", Professinal do not Unionize. A GUILD maybe, perhaps..... but a union??? this's crazy. The only way to get out of this mess, would be if we got together, I mean together, and not accept work from the AMCs even at the cost to starve for some time, but trust me that would be impossible, not to may smart ones around. Again, there will be those who would think this an opportunity to "make money" and not realize all they are earning is PEANUTS.

David, I have to say, you hit it right on the head, It is all THE APPRAISER'S fault. They themselves caused all of this mess. Number 1.- By inflating values, and later by accepting work from the AMCs at half the price like cheap prostitutes. In their 'stupidity' those appraisers thought they were getting ahead, without realizing that they were laying the foundation for the AMCs to grow into what they are now. If every single appraiser would have turned down the AMCs' recruitment thecniques, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now. As much as I know, there are very few appraiser's that would rather 'hang the glove' per se, rather than "WORKING FOR FOOD" as most "appraisers" do now. The solution for this problem would be just simple if we all had a little of intelligence, but do we?? I doubt it. There were, there are, and will always be those, again, who'd think they are getting ahead by accepting work from AMCs while the rest of us are not in order to solve the problem. So you see? it is like a vicious circle. I read another comment, we need "A UNION".... is he crazy or what?? We are "PROFESSIONALS", Professinal do not Unionize. A GUILD maybe, perhaps..... but a union??? this's crazy. The only way to get out of this mess, would be if we got together, I mean together, and not accept work from the AMCs even at the cost to starve for some time, but trust me that would be impossible, not to may smart ones around. Again, there will be those who would think this an opportunity to "make money" and not realize all they are earning is PEANUTS.

David, I have to say, you hit it right on the head, It is all THE APPRAISER'S fault. They themselves caused all of this mess. Number 1.- By inflating values, and later by accepting work from the AMCs at half the price like cheap prostitutes. In their 'stupidity' those appraisers thought they were getting ahead, without realizing that they were laying the foundation for the AMCs to grow into what they are now. If every single appraiser would have turned down the AMCs' recruitment thecniques, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now. As much as I know, there are very few appraiser's that would rather 'hang the glove' per se, rather than "WORKING FOR FOOD" as most "appraisers" do now. The solution for this problem would be just simple if we all had a little of intelligence, but do we?? I doubt it. There were, there are, and will always be those, again, who'd think they are getting ahead by accepting work from AMCs while the rest of us are not in order to solve the problem. So you see? it is like a vicious circle. I read another comment, we need "A UNION".... is he crazy or what?? We are "PROFESSIONALS", Professinal do not Unionize. A GUILD maybe, perhaps..... but a union??? this's crazy. The only way to get out of this mess, would be if we got together, I mean together, and not accept work from the AMCs even at the cost to starve for some time, but trust me that would be impossible, not to may smart ones around. Again, there will be those who would think this an opportunity to "make money" and not realize all they are earning is PEANUTS.

I'm happy to see appraisers finally angry enough to unite against HVCC. As a board member of our Dallas independent Broker association, we conferenced with Houston Appraisal association members in Feb asking why the appraisers were not yet up in arms. Answer: "they are too independent and can't get them organized enough to be heard in Washington and many of them aren't aware of HVCC". D/FWAMB also met with the local legislative NAR rep in January asking for their help stopping HVCC. He said NAR was supporting HVCC but was open to listening to our concerns and then passing them on to National. I don't know if we had any influence but I do know NAR had a call to action on June 24th telling members they were seeking support for the 18 month moratorium. As a mortgage broker who has been actively fighting HVCC and many other destructive bills both nationally and locally (I serve on the advisory board to state commissioner) I am glad to see NAR and appraisers getting fired up! It will take all of us to stop the insanity.

This bill did not go far enough. It needs to allow for fees to be made COD to the appraiser and let the appraisal order company to collect their fee from.....who cares! By the way, don't call them appraisal management companies anymore. They do not manage us.

The latest bill is Louisiana's "Chapter 51-B. Appraisal Management Company Licensing and Regulation Act, which is part of Amendments proposed by Senate Committee on Commerce, Consumer Protection and International Affairs to Engrossed House Bill No. 381 by Representative Hoffman. Dated June 24, 2009. If anyone wants a copy, it is here: http://www.legis.louisiana.gov/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=666030

Wow….. that’s a lot to answer Stephanie – Dante; what is the # of the Louisiana Bill? NorCal brainstorm meeting;7/8/09 Starbucks WEDNESDAY Noon - 3735 Buchanan, By the Safeway at Crissy Field.

Thanks everyone for educating me a little bit more on HVCC. I do the mortgage loans and it has become increasingly difficult to keep up with other professions like appraising so i am asking for your help on a few issues i am currently having! I do consider myself fairly knowledgeable but its gotten out of control! Most of your posts (some very funny by the way) have been very helpful to me on the 1 file i am working one! hahaha! Yes just 1! I usually do 60-70 loans a year for the last 7-10 years but i only did 5 loans in 2008. I have turned down more files in the last year than i have in 20 yrs! Its costing me and the customer money and i would like to see if somehow we can work together to make these hard times a little easier if you know what i mean. I have a few suggestions and comments i thought i would post to see if you could help me! Thanks 1. Stew posted this on (Jul 03, 2009 08:40am) Yes the appraisal is assignable/portable , but EACH LENDER USES A DIFFERENT AMC and the appraisal is now useless if the loan is rejected!!! I HAVE THAT ISSUE ON THIS LOAN! Lender denied my file THE DAY THE APPRAISAL WAS COMPLETED because of a BK 7 years ago! hhmmmm? sounds fishy! They saw the credit and the file before the appraisal was even ordered and bam, turned it down the day i ordered it and wouldnt you know, the appraiser was quick about it and had it to me the next day and already charge the credit card....SO i have a useless appraisal, a denial from the lender who doesnt give a rats butt, YES an automated approval PRIOR to ordering the appraisal, angry sellers and buyers and im trying to figure out where to send this loan and use the same appraisal. So Lets see $400 appraisal fee plus $150 lender name change plus possible switch to FHA appraisal for another fee and maybe another inspection..priceless! Possible solution::::: Change loan from conventional to FHA and use the appraisal that i have with additional fees ($200) to change it to an FHA appraisal? I just saw a bumper sticker that said "I dont need to have sex because life F***S me every chance it gets" I really feel bad for the customers because a $400 appraisal is now going to cost closer to $700 for no good reason...right? 2. Where can i find a list of lenders and what AMC they use? Does this kind of report exist? It sure would save time for the LO's. 3. From the start of the loan what if the loan officers (LO's) originated FHA loans only? I know it would save me time and less hassle as well as the customer some money. I would hope that it would generate some business for appraisers as well. We could use any appraiser we want! True? 4. Does the lender only accept appraisals from the AMC they are contracted with? Wasnt it up to the lender to find a AMC "they like" and contract with them? IS THERE SOMETHING THAT SAYS THE LENDER CANNOT ACCEPT AN APPRAISAL FROM ANOTHER AMC? (Im a little confused on this) 5. Should i research and would it be possible to start my own AMC company? I started thinking about this jokingly but hey why not? The appraisers would charge whatever they normally charge, the company (new AMC) would get say 10-20% of that, it would produce more business for the appraisers because the AMC would be contracted with lenders and we would all be back to where we were a year ago, making money. It probably wouldnt be that simple but wouldnt it basically work like a mortgage Broker employing a Loan Officer??? however in Real Estate, the mortgage broker has holds most if not all of the liability not the LO. If i understand correctly the AMC's are not regulated and not liable for too many things??? Maybe i should consider my first career change to event planning! 6. FYI - I dont know what you guys get paid from the AMC's but isnt something better than nothing? I really do feel for you because its a domino effect to everyone in the industry BUT Brokers/LO's get zero, zilch, nothing if we do not close the loan after weeks/months of working on the stupid file. NOTHING! We are out the credit report cost and the DO(Automated approval) costs that we do not get reimbursed for, just to name a few expenses off the top of my head! 7. Question: Whats the big deal with appraisers providing comps if the broker does not abuse it? It would save both of us time and headaches. Im still looking for comps in tehachapi from 4 months ago! I would rather call my experienced appraiser rather than a title company to obtain useless 1 year old comps but thats what i am stuck with. :-( general comps, a conversation on the phone about the property, nothing fancy and appraisers just wont do it even in todays slow market??? why? 8. Are there other appraisal or mortgage websites you post on worth visiting for more information? Again, i really enjoy reading everyones posts! Have a good day! I look forward to your help! Thanks Stephanie

As they all say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and I urge everyone to write your powers that be in a group email every week until this changes. COD is the key...forcing AMC's to only charge lenders their fee like in the Louisiana Bill that I believe just passed. Use it as model legislation. Although only a few states have AMC regulatory bills that have passed, that gives the states that follow them the ability to copy the good parts of previous bills into a better model bill for thier state. I will not rest until the day I first hear an AMC employee tell me "we have an order for you, here is the contact information for the co-client and borrower, please call them to arrange your fee and payment terms with them directly as we will be billing the lender to make our money. Please also let us know after you inspect the property how much time you will need to finish the report. We have already billed the lender, so we don't need to rush you for no reason. Have a nice day!"

What are the possibilities of having a class action lawsuit against Cuomo? What is the meaning of certified? Doesn't that mean that you are "allowed" to do appraisals for any lender? Or does it now mean that you can be regulated by an unlicensed AMC idiot in India? Food for thought...I think it may take a union to pull this off, much like starting a revolution in Iran, it better be a good one to get back control with proper execution of the endgame, or it will not change anything......

Organize for our Future.To get a list of every appraiser in California,or your applicable state, we can volunteer to generate a database, from Orea, appraisal schools, Appraisal institute to contact appraisers to unionize. Janitors, carpenters, waiters, engineers... has form a collective organization. We Appraisers need to join NAMB or NAR. If the Appraisers Institute should is not going be our advocate. Do not attend their schools, do not renew thier membership, do not support them because they are in bed with the AMC's. We need to contact Dave Biggers with Alamode and the other software vendors to use the resources they have, because if we're out of business, they will join us, the Data source people, we can't afford to pay for data with no work, The E/O people without full fee's these cost will have to suffer. If the banks and lenders are shutting us down, let the collateral damage began. Forget all this socialism talk,this madness is called "Greed" the way capitalism works,is like a web, business's supports business's. WE CAN EITHER FIGHT FOR OUR BUSINESSES AND LIVELYHOODS OR BE A VICTIM OF THE COLLATERAL DAMAGE OF GREED.

Anyone in the San Joaquin Valley (CA) want to get together? I am will do what I can to find us a place if the responce is good enough. I can use any and all assitance in getting a group organized. I have no experiance with such a task however I am willing. You can reach me at adpappraiser@gmail.com

Anyone in the Joaquin Valley, CA want to get together? I will do what I can to find us a place to have an open forum if the responce is good enough. I could use any all support and assistance in getting a group organized. I have no experiance with such a task but I am willing to try and do all I can. You can reach me at adpappraiser@gmail.com

See you Wednesday..... this is not a pre Union meeting. I don't want the union in but we can act now. I'm not waiting for Congress!

See you Wednesday..... this is not a pre Union meeting. I don't want the union in but we can if we act now. I'm not waiting for Congress!

To "enough" & anyone else who is discouraged - don't give up! The HVCC will continue only if it is allowed to continue, by people who have given up. We can certainly fight back. I know it is very hard - by not working for AMC's, most of my business is gone, but I know that things would be worse in the long run if we don't stop the HVCC. I am pleased to see that this bill was introduced in Congress & I have been contacting everyone I know & urging them to sign the petition. The HVCC will collapse if they can't get any appraisers to do the work or if Congress passes this bill - whichever comes first - or both at about the same time! I will be at the Wendesday meeting in SF! I was a union member in the past & it was the best time in my life. I was paid better & had better benefits than anytime before or since. I would like nothing better than to have the good life back again!

Thanks.... NorCal & Jersey have started; what other states are going to join?

Workforfullfeeonly, Please keep me informed about your meeting. We had our New Jersey meeting last week and came up with a couple ideas....I'll share if you email me: dan@appraising.biz

Meeting at Starbucks 3735 Buchanan SF Wednesday NOON. NOT a union prep meeting; we are "WORK for FULL fee only" and we are brain storming; Lets do this!!!!! We need you; be there!

Angry Appraiser...I think you are onto something! Where is the NAMB in all of this? We need to start a we hate the HVCC teamsters group and move forward! ivalu8@gmail.com....The problem is the AMC's are acting in a review/supervisory position at times. And yet they hold no license....hmmm? I'm going to do some RESPA research and post again later. 2nd Small Point. LO's&Brokers, appraisals are NOT portable no matter what the lender says (ie Flagstar). If the new lender is willing to accept the appraisal as it is I believe they can be considered to be someone assigned by the original client. GOOD POINT! but if the lender wants their name on the appraisal, the AMC just needs to assign the appraisal to the new lender free of charge! Give and take isnt it? They are taking and taking and taking!

A few comments i have to make because THIS HAS AFFECTED ME, this BS of an industry is affecting my livelyhood, my health and I AM FED UP! Alot of people in the mortgage industry and outside the business are suffering too but ultimately the mortgage world is where this crap started and i think we have a right to have our opinions heard (and considered) more than anyone right now! Sorry if you disagree! If you dont, stand up for what you believe is right or wrong! I believe this is wrong, a joke! THEN: As a professional for over 20 years in the same line of work I was proud to tell everyone what i did for a living, happy that i helped people get their first house or saved them hundreds of dollars on their monthly pymts and i was Loyal with a capital L to all my customers and they were loyal as well. I was loyal to my appraisers and title companies because it took YEARS to build that relationship "bond" but once we had that bond it was awesome! This business made us friends, We were happy to be in the same business, stressed because we were sooo business and then slow for a month, busy slow busy slow, we had our 5pm happy hour buddies, some of us just had lunch once a year but we didnt care, life was good and we basically controlled our own destiny! I was proud to do my job with no hassles and MANY hassles too! I think somewhat we were the savors to alot of people in trouble, that needed extra cash for home improvements or a nice little vacation, or whatever the case was....WE HELPED DIDNT WE? Well who the H..E.. double L hockey sticks is helping us now? Who is saving the lenders, the brokers, the processors, the appraisers, the underwriters, the escrow officers? Not a darn person! Instead they are making us go through bigger hoops for less pay, longer turn times (90 days ha), more programs from obama that might be in effect now, oops maybe not, they tell us what appraisal company to use...blah blah blah! We dont have a say in anything and it is sooo sad! Oh and i had 2 cents worth on my opinion back then, i think i have 1 pennies worth now! NOW..less than 2 years later! Sad...I used to love my job, now i hate it! Im going to lose my house(s) the new modification loan will help me! haha, Im depressed, not motivated, so disappointed with the direction everything is going, looking for a new career and im 4 feet underground with 2 more feet to go! This is the pits! 1. I think great appraisers are losing good business and it is really wrong. I miss the relationships, the kind words and the hard work everyone used to put forth! 2. Can we file for unemployment if "technically" we have a job? What are my options on that? Ha what a joke! I paid into it for years and I need it back NOW! THIS STINKS! Thanks for listening! GOOD LUCK TO ALL in the days to come! Lets fight to get back what we lost, our independence and the ability to do our flippin' jobs the way we used to damn it! The honest hard working individuals in this world got the short end of the stick on this deal and im hoping for change! Stephanie

Barb....True! I've been hearing more horror stories from Realtors and brokers regarding this issue.

Appraisers: inform your real estate agents and mortgage brokers!!! When an out-of-area appraiser does the appraisal, they are violating USPAP and therefore violating the HVCC. The buyer, seller, listing agent, selling agent and mortgage broker should ALL get on the phone immediately (follow-up in writing) and INSIST that a LOCAL APPRAISER be used. Otherwise the lender will end up with an appraisal that is non-compliant with HVCC. (Check USPAP! The Competency Rule requires that the out-of-area appraiser disclose it in the report, and disclose what steps they took to familiarize themselves with the local market, such as working with a local appraiser, working with local agents, accessing the local MLS. We all know they don't do this!) But get the word out!

Quick comment about unions.....The Appraisal Guild was helpful a few years back, but died because we were fat and happy and didn't see the need at the time. Cost is low and they have only one agenda....unified power to the appraisers. This is what we need NOW! I'm not a big supporter of unions in general, but a guild with 10,000+ members would make a difference. I'm trying to get in touch with the powers to be at The Guild to see if we can get it up and running again. By the way, for those of you not familiar with The Guild, it was related to the AFL-CIO and was for professionals and office workers. Dan

there will be a brainstorming meeting Wednesday at NOON; by crissy field in SF, will post an address today sometime. Thanks for the venue Frank...... Hoping to post a website soon.

Yeah sorry Allegroj.. had to remove those posts.. I'm sure you can say what you need to say without being so graphic... we don't mind speaking our minds, heck Brian and I do it all the time, but we maintain a certain amount of control, we'd appreciate it if you all did the same. Thanks everyone!

interesting; I happen to be Irish and republican - Union is NOT what I want, I want my independance back.... I want appraisers to DO SOMETHING instead of sitting around complaining like you. your so full of answers, DO SOMETHING!

To ALLEGROJ; I understand your frustration however; NO ONE will take you serious with that dirty mouth. Be a professional……. Use that energy to act, not attack! How can appraisers claim to be a serious profession with your dirty mouth comments? Clean it up! Sorry, I just had to comment on that one! It looks like northern California is going to act, how about you?

How about all the appraisers on the same day only accepting payment from the borrower directly at a fee set by the appraisers. How about August 1, 2009....COD Day for all appraisers?

Go David! NorCal is meeting to figure this out and get it started. Where are you located? email; jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net for information on our brainstorm meeting. We are meeting this week!

For those who claim not working for AMC; or refused to work for one for less than full fee; what are the alternatives? When the slaves are caught; they are send back to their masters. Some are killed to warn others. I see no different between the appraisers and the slaves when you have a govt okayed the practice. The banks and the title companies control the appraisers. The elected officials listen to the big guys; never to the little guys; especially to the little poor toothless appraisers. How many of you have lost to the AVMs???!!! Sure, the banks and CUs lost money using AVMs; but, they get to have taxpayer bail outs; appraisers don't. This is a dying professions; look at the Obama loan; they don't even require an appraisal!!! If someday, Fannie & Freddie come out with no appraisal loans, we will see how many appraisers will survive then. This job is pathetic; a joke and a fraud. Many talented appraisers I know have joined the boards of AVMs and AMCs; so, the slaves have become slave masters. Striking is hopeless. I just put two deals in escrow; and I will be checking the credentials of whomever comes to do these appraisals. I will fight for my deals; but, the fight against AMCs is over guys; just like the fight against the AVMs. LSI wants their appraisers to sign papers so they could run a background check for their fee appraisers; or you don't get to work for some of their clients. I thought that was the job for the OREA. I thought I already paid for the background check every 2 years????!!!! Should be vote for LSI to replace OREA? OREA don't have any works.

Apparently there are a lot of appraisers that just do not get it yet! The AMC's exist because appraisers have let them. If, ALL APPRAISERS refused to do any appraisal work for any AMC UNLESS the appraiser got their full fee, where would the appraisers be? Answer, a lot better off. The problem is that there are a lot of bottom feeder apprasiers that feel they will never work again unless they accept sub-standard fee appraisals from the AMC's. There may be some lean times for those appraisers but, in the long run this industry will prevail. Fellow appraisers, we have to stand together on this one. Where are the so called national appraiser organizations now? They do not help, lead or assist the appraisers as an organization claiming to be dedicated to the industry should. Now, especially in these times, these national organizations should be at the forefront of this fight for appraiser independance, they are not! They should be the ones leading the charge for appraiser independance by forming a coalition (some people call it a union) to lead the fight for full fees for appraisers. Let the AMC's collect their fees for their work directly from their client (not the appraiser) and leave the appraiser out of the picture. Lenders should be enlightened by these national apprasier organizations to the caliber of appraiser that performs work for AMC's, that the work is being done by the least experienced, least educated, least motivated appraisers in the country. What kind of work do they think they are getting? Oh! I'm sure they know! It is the kind they need for the loan but, isn't that why all of this started in the first place? I call for the national organizations to join together, take the lead and represent the apprasiers in this fight for full fees. Form a coalition for appraisers to join that lead to true appraiser independance the payment of full fees for the appraisers across the country. AMC's do not lead to appraiser independance, it leads to the prostitution of the appraisers performing work for thos AMC's. I personally do not object to working for an AMC, as long as they pay me MY FULL FEE. They can collect their fee from their client, the lender.

A simple breakdown of the work involved in performing a typical residential appraisal vs AMC service: Appraisal: Receive order via fax/email Set up file Call borrower for property info/set up appointment Perform initial data research Visit subject property Drive by all comparable sales/listings/visit municipal offices if necessary Input report into computer Call for additional data from condo association/zoning officer/Realtors Review appraisal report Complete report Send report Possible follow up calls from underwriting (even when report is 100% complete in the first place) Follow up on billing (often multiple times) Total time spent: Between 4-8 hours depending on location and difficulty of assignment. Total fee from AMC: $180-250 AMC Service: Receive order from lender (2 minutes) Set up File (3 minutes) Send order via fax/email (2 minutes) Follow up with appt/underwriting concerns/completion (3 minutes each correspondence) Forward appraisal to lender (3 minutes) Send invoice to accounts payable (2 minutes) (All above completed in front of a computer with no time spent outside of office) Total time spent: Less than 1/2 hour per report Total fee from lender/borrower: $125-200 Total liability for work performed: Appraiser: 100% AMC: 0% Total educational requirements and training for profession: Certified Appraiser: 2+ years apprenticeship with 150+ class hours AMC employee: No previous experience required, probably 2 days training. These are just estimates, but probably within reason. And the AMC's have the gall to defend their position! In addition, AMC's often add days to the process, so the efficiency is adversely affected as well. The proper and ethical communication between the appraiser and lender is often cut off further complicating matters. AMC's should be paid a fair amount for their work....probably in the range of $25-$50 per order. ($50-$100 per hour seems more than fair.) The fee splits should be clearly spelled out on the HUD-1 or some other form that the borrower receives. Dan Drelich Email me if you're from New Jersey....we're getting organized and need additional bodies and support. dan@appraising.biz

The AMC racquet is a rare bird where a service industry not only charges their actual clients, the lenders who they are supposed to replace their in house appraisal management teams and do it at a cheaper rate to save them money, but they also charge the people who make the products they sell, the appraisers. This proves that the AMC's have unfair pricing leverage over appraisers. Appraisers do not need anyone to answer their phone for them and if they are crooked, it should be the responsibility of the state licensing boards to find those appraisers and separate them from their licenses. The laws and systems are already in place to regulate the appraisers, so we absolutely do not need unregulated AMC's to "keep appraisers in line". On the contrary, I have been pressured by several AMC's who were all too glad to send me comps that the homeowner's realtor buddy selected from superior subdivisions to help them get a higher value. These companies include RELS, PCV Murcor, and others. We need a place to turn these guys in, but they are running rampant in this industry not having to comply with any laws whatsoever while stealing the entire profit margins from appraisers for doing nothing but answering the phone. If a lender wants to find an appraiser, they have many referral websites to help them select an appraiser for no charge, other than using an AMC, like appraisers.com, and others. So the AMC's do not solve a problem in the industry, they are leaches put into position by the largest title companies, FARES, FIDELITY and FISERV, who own or are in joint ventures with 80% of the AMC's. This is clearly a case of the title companies finding a way to make more money on every closing. I'm shocked that they have not been taken down for racqueteering. Here is a solution. Make it so that the AMC's can only charge their clients, the lenders. They can call this fee whatever they want so long as it isn't called an "appraisal fee". The appraisers, to truly render impartial opinions of value, need to be paid by the homeowner directly at the time of inspection. The AMC has no say so in setting the appraisal fee and should not care, since they are charging the lender a fee for helping their loan officers manage appraisers. These two different fees need to always be separated on the HUD closing statement to not confuse home buyers. Currently, the appraisers are subsidizing the AMC's fee to the lender, reducing the cost to the lender, so the true value of the services provided by AMC's has not been determined by a natural market. When the AMC's are forced to only charge their clients, the lenders, they will have to compete against other AMC's on a level playing field offering X services for Y dollars. Then the true value, if any, of the AMC's services will be determined. It might be the case that lenders will choose not to use AMC's if the AMC's are trying to charge them $250 per appraisal, which is what they make on some appraisals now due to being able to charge both lenders and appraisers. From an appraiser's standpoint, I can tell you that I never had a problem answering my phone or managing my open orders and I don't need AMC's to assist in my business. I would never pay for their services, but rather would like to charge them an inconvenience fee for having to hire an extra person in my office to manage the 270 proprietary AMC websites and keep them all updated on status of every open order every day. So they are taking half our fees, preventing us from ever seeing a raise, and then increasing our office overhead.....appraising has become a minimum wage job thanks to the AMC's and they just need to be forced to charge only the clients they serve, the lenders, leaving appraisers once again in control over pricing, payment terms, turn times, etc. We cannot allow these unregulated entities to continue to steal money from appraisers and consumers, who unlike AMC's, work hard for their money. Also, when the consumer pays for the appraisal at the door, they should immediately become a co-client and be entitled to receive a copy of the appraisal, with an accurate and non-deceptive invoice, which they should be able to take to any other lender and shop for their loan. If they find a better lender, they should be able to call the appraiser and have the name changed into the new lender's name for a small fee. Making consumers pay for multiple appraisal fees is merely another way the title companies are stealing from consumers. There also needs to be AMC regulation with teeth and an additional Standards section needs to be written into the USPAP book regarding AMC's so that all the players in the industry are playing with the same rulebook. Also, to prevent us from being checkmated again while we didn't even realize we were playing chess, we should have the NAA, national association of appraisers, with legislative clout like the NAR and NAMB, because no current appraiser association should have allowed this to happen in the first place. All appraisers should be required to contribute membership dues to it, so that we can have fulltime lobbyist fighting for our interests. I think we need to sue or have a national strike to make this happen if necessary. Remember this...we hold the licenses that we worked so hard to get and without us, the entire lending and real estate markets come to a screeching halt. Then it would be in the media for a few days and get the attention this problem deserves. Happy 4th to everyone and let me know what you think about these concepts. Dante

I think great appraisers are losing good business and it is really wrong. I know this because after being a processor for 20 years you get to work with several. I joined a company a while back that implemented an "Appraisal Management Company." I received horrible customer service and awful appraisals from appraisers that did not have much experience or back bone to address underwriting conditions that are being asked for today. With knowing an appraiser for so many years who would gladly tell me to stick it if I tried to get her to push value, or do anything else to jeopordize her license or business, is really very frustrating that I cannot just pick up the phone and order an appraisal from her as I see her business failing with her exceptional professionalism and high moral standards. This is a real mess and shame for all the good appraisers out there losing much need business in this economy. For what, for some managment company to get paid for what doing nothing???? Placing an order and getting 100.00 an order from it?? Yeah, this is the answer. Lets take away from the ones actually doing the work and give it to another person that seems really fair and just. I wanted to just give my 2cents as I feel more people need to be aware of how horrible this change is for everyone in the industry.

7-4-09 Landsafe and other AMCs are Mafia type operations and have been in the CENTER of all fraudulant appraisals done in past "Bubble Years" . One good example is when they were pushing us , appraisers- to come up with 125% of value to implement Countrywide's inflated 125% loan to value program. They are owned by the banks and HVCC is a green light to them to commite more fraud and wrippe off customers. Government corrupted officials Instead of punishing these AMCs , are punishing experienced appraisers !!!!!!!!!, and gave full authority to AMCs to continure thier fraudulant activities. Most likely they have bribed( Sorry: LOBBYEED!!!) the authorities to come up with this HVCC. If the intention was REALLY to prevent fraudulant appraisals, there was ONE straightforward way: That is tightening the appraisal REVIEW PROCESS in all appraisals, ( very simple!!).. But instead of concentraiting on the REAL SUBSTANCE that is the quality of appraisal rteports, they are concentraiting on "How an appraisal is being ordered!!!!)... One should be very naive to believe that by ordering the appraisals to AMCs the appraisal products' quality will improve!!! NO, the only thing that would improve quality of appraisals would be tighter scruthny , and tighter REVIEW . If say an unprofessional appraiser's couple of BAD appraisals be rejected, that appraiser would NOT dare to do another BAD appraisal !!!!. I am an appraiser with 16 years experience, but I am GOING OUT OF BUSINESS, as AMCs prefer to hIRE and train UNEXPERIENCE appraisers, and use them as slaves , rather than using me as an experienced appraiser. If the government really wanted to get unbaiased appraisals, here is what they should do to change the way of placing an appraisal order: The investor/Bank should go to the say CALIFORNIA's OREA site, and serach for an appraser in say LA's Atwater area, and pick an appraiser. This would be the ONLY unbaisaed way of selecting an appraiser for an assignment. Otherweise , by ordering through AMCs, the government is just encouraging these rats (corrupted AMCs ) to commite fraud. David Gold Value Appraisal California Now instead of

I AM ALREADY ON STRIKE & I WOULD BE HAPPY TO MAKE IT OFFICIAL, ALONG WITH OTHER APPRAISERS. I DON'T WORK FOR AMC's. END OF STORY. I will be happy to join the Teamsters & work for improved compensation & health care benefits. If lenders can pay an AMC $500 or more, for an appraisal, then they can pay us the same money. We have allowed other entities to divide & conquer us for too long. Now it is time to HANG TOGETHER & HANG TOUGH. No more middlemen stealing the food off our tables & leaving us with crumbs. canosa_mv@hotmail.com, (707) 655 - 1987

I think getting the teamsters involved is a great idea. I also think meeting locally is a great idea too. This is how I see how the two ideas can work. First off as independent appraiser we know nothing about working together which is ok because our job train us to be that way. The teamsters are great with getting people to work together. Also if we meet locally we can brainstorm and have "realistic expectations" we can present to teamsters. We can educate them about the real estate industry and even have a couple of trustworthy representatives work with them who can communicate our goals and expectations. Some of my expectations are to force the banks to work with our union in other words get our power back and shut down the AMC. Also keep our fees up to our standards, and help us getting pay increases to meet the standard of living increases and to help us get some kind of health care benefits for starters so we can take care of our families. I believe the Health care institutions give discounts to large organizations.

When Bank of America owns Landsafe Appraisal Management and Landsafe Escrow and Landsafe Title,and Bank of America is doing the loan and Bank of America owns the foreclosed property being sold, where is the consumer protection? HVCC does nothing except enrich the companies (usually lenders) who own them at the detriment of the appraisers.

REFUSING TO WORK FOR AMC's IS A DE-FACTO STRIKE. I have not signed up with any AMC's & will not. Other appraisers in my area are doing the same thing. I email other appraisers every day to drum up support for a union - Teamsters Union sounds very good to me. The sanctimonius Appraisal Institute wants to dictate to us & take our money, but does not protect our interests or livilihood. Forget them. Call me (707) 655 - 1987 or email canosa_mv@hotmail.com & lets get the show on the road. There has never been a better opportunity to start looking after our interests.

I fully agree with Tony in Hawaii; I've wondered where the appraisers have been all these years. I haven't worked for AMC unless I get my full fee (or very close to it) they will come go to Seasoned Appraisers when they can't go any place else. WHY on earth would you let someone else set you fee after you've worked so hard to get where you are. You are independent for a reason - STAY INDEPENDENT. Union is not the answer, because we did nothing or not much, we have to act NOW. ONLY WORK FOR YOUR NORMAL FEE. "DOING IT MY WAY" finally figured it out....... ; jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net for information on our brainstorm meeting. WHY on earth would you give control of your fee to an AMC??????

Several observations: The HVCC is not legislation. It is a negotiated settlement imposed nationwide by fiat. You appraisers did not get involved when you should have. NAMB mortgage brokers fought this as best they could and spent a lot of their personal money doing so. You appraisers did not support us in a meaningful manner. You are now getting yur just reward for your apathy. We saw the big truck in our rear vision mirror, why didn't you? Which brings me to the thought of the Teamsters as your union organization. Given their history and reputation, there is a bit of poetic justice there. Really though, how can a union be effective for independent contractors? A boycott, yes. A union, no. Frank and Brian, you are being much more effective in fighting this thing than NAMB. I commend you and support you. I believe in your PR approach. You are also right in wanting FACTS to give to the press. Rants and heresay are pointless. We need to feed the press as many facts and supportable stories as possible. Keep the fires stoked. Sign the petitions and bury both Congressmen and Senators with e-mails. Here in Hawaii the banks are a very major force and they are all avoiding AMCs. The nationals such as Wells Fargo are starting to feel the pinch as we brokers go to the banks to avoid the evil AMCs.

I hope all of you are sending HVCCSUCKS your emails so he/she can let you know when the meeting will be and where; jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net

Now your talking "doing it my way".... I've been saying this for daaaaaaaaaaaaays! Work for them but for your fee!!!!!!! join us in NorCA we are meeting soon and need your input! ; jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net for information on our brainstorm meeting.

ivalu8@gmail.com Yes we can take as many people as we can(within the business)... ANGRY APPRAISER - teamsters is not a bad Idea but do you think they know about real estate???

UP YOUR AMC! Pissed off here in Oklahoma I am. Finally went over the edge today. Worked for this AMC for over 10 years. Did many appraisals for a low fee because they sent us a bunch. Over time, this wears thin. And now comes the pointles Bull $h!t MC form. This winter they sent out emails to say they had no provision to increase any fee for this extra work! What arrogance! Now, they recant and say OK we will throw ya an extra few $$. Well, we bit the bullet and did a few more. Now they want an additional two pending or listings - thats five comparables! These Chicken $h!t MF always depend on pushing people around. You know the tune, right? Well I had enough! Kinda like in "Full Metal Jacket" but without the M-16s! Called up their vendor management dept. today and said from now on I'm charging FULL FEE for any and all appraisals. Take it or leave it. "Well,this might effect the ammount of work you get from us", she says. "Thats fine", I retort, "you want all this extra work and expect us to work for peanuts". After 25 years of appraising, I don't need the practice. Don't care if they send us any work of not - but if they do it will be on our terms. Few things in this world feel as good as saying NO.

Hey guys if you really think unionizing is the answer I would like the let you know as a former TEAMSTER UNION MEMBER you can not ask for a stronger union to support our profession. OK, you will ask the question that TEAMSTERS are for truckers only. WRONG!!!! I worked for an Airline on the west coast that had TEAMSTER membership and also TEAMSTERS will organize any organization that needs help. So Northern California Appraisers look at maybe looking into TEAMSTERS UNION. They would love possibly having a couple hundred thousand or more as members.

WorkSMARTER not Harder and HVCCSUCKS, I'm in the Monterey area so if possible I will be at a meeting. Can we get a reputable union organizer to meet with us?? maybe a NAR rep. Maybe another case of Cali leading the way (in a good way) and being the first state to successfully organize its appraisers? We represent 10% of the national economy and I believe we are still the 8th largest economy in the world. "Beneath All, The Land". I think thats how it went. ivalu8

where are you ivalu8.com? WE are meeting in NorCA email; jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net for information on our brainstorm meeting. Even if your not here, we need your input! DO IT (or keep working for 40% of you fee).

Join us ivalu8@gmail.com..

Two quick points: Aggie is right, RESPA addresses charging more for an appraisal than the appraiser/appraiser(s) fee. The problem is the AMC's are acting in a review/supervisory position at times. And yet they hold no license....hmmm? I'm going to do some RESPA research and post again later. 2nd Small Point. LO's&Brokers, appraisals are NOT portable no matter what the lender says (ie Flagstar). If the new lender is willing to accept the appraisal as it is I believe they can be considered to be someone assigned by the original client. The problem is the new lender usually wants their name as the client. That is a new assignment and file.....all courtesy of the Graham/Bliley Act which was shoved down everyones' throats by the big banks. WE NEED TO ORGANIZE. I'm a former AI member and I don't think they are going to be much help in this fight. Too many top AI members and officers are running AMC's, work for AMC's, sit on the boards of AMC's. They are a conflicted group and will not be effective fighters. I was against the original Appraisal Institute separating from NAR (yes I'm getting older) as were many of my peers. We lost a tremendous voice in Wash.DC in that stupid move for more "independence". NAR still has an Appraisal Section which I believe would be the best vehicle to unite our voices. But the Appraisal Section would have to change some and the cost would need to com down. It's morphed into some sort of additional designation for Realtors. Maybe NAR would be willing to consider changes for the greater good. Otherwise with a democrat in the White House and a big majority in the House and Senate, it might be time for an Appraiser's Guild / Union. We need to MOVE NOW ! ivalu8

Two quick points: Aggie is right, RESPA addresses charging more for an appraisal than the appraiser/appraiser(s) fee. The problem is the AMC's are acting in a review/supervisory position at times. And yet they hold no license....hmmm? I'm going to do some RESPA research and post again later. 2nd Small Point. LO's&Brokers, appraisals are NOT portable no matter what the lender says (ie Flagstar). If the new lender is willing to accept the appraisal as it is I believe they can be considered to be someone assigned by the original client. The problem is the new lender usually wants their name as the client. That is a new assignment and file.....all courtesy of the Graham/Bliley Act which was shoved down everyones' throats by the big banks. WE NEED TO ORGANIZE. I'm a former AI member and I don't think they are going to be much help in this fight. Too many top AI members and officers are running AMC's, work for AMC's, sit on the boards of AMC's. They are a conflicted group and will not be effective fighters. I was against the original Appraisal Institute separating from NAR (yes I'm getting older) as were many of my peers. We lost a tremendous voice in Wash.DC in that stupid move for more "independence". NAR still has an Appraisal Section which I believe would be the best vehicle to unite our voices. But the Appraisal Section would have to change some and the cost would need to com down. It's morphed into some sort of additional designation for Realtors. Maybe NAR would be willing to consider changes for the greater good. Otherwise with a democrat in the White House and a big majority in the House and Senate, it might be time for an Appraiser's Guild / Union. We need to MOVE NOW ! ivalu8

Thank you REALISTIFICATION! Keep in touch with us in NorCA. jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net we will be meeting soon!

It is important to note that while NAR might not support appraisers wanting to remain neutral per se, Realtors themselves are on the side of the restoration/resumption of the appraisal process. They have deals dying left and right, among the reasons being that appraisers not familiar with the local market areas are appraising properties under contract, while those experienced and aware of the fluctuation in value in different locations within a township etc, are at home not receiving assignments. In most cases because they will not work, nor will I, for 1/2 of what we are used to receiving. Also, as stated in this area of discussion, the turn around time demanded does not allow for adequate research and development of the quality of report in compliance with USPAP. Having spoken to many realtors since this went into effect, they will support the renewal of the appraisal process they had become familiar with and should be kept informed. All aspects of the process, buyers, sellers, realtors, appraisers et al, with the exception of the newly inserted middlemen, have been for the most part adversely affected. The wider the support the better. I am in NJ and would like to become united with those in my area. I am a member of the two biggest appraisal organizations, and so far, they are not helping IMHO. God helps those who help themselves. Let's do it!

THIS IS IT…… Northern CA email; jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net for information on our brainstorm meeting. If you don’t want to participate email this to a fellow appraiser! DO IT (or keep working for 40% of you fee). Other states can do what we are doing and keep in touch with us.

Who's in to meet in northern California?? Remember that our independance is our strength and our WEAKNESS(SEE HVCC).. LETS UNITE.. jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net

OK GUYS, Appraisers need to get the Mortgage lenders organsation lobby to get some appraisers involved as the Appraisal Institute will not do anything for us. Appraisers do not need any designations to be an appraiser. The AI makes you think that and there are some lenders that ask if you have one, but whats does it get you, NOTHING! All it does is cost you more money to take the AI courses. There are too many good Education courses providers in the US for appraisers and if the AI was gone we would still have education classes. So there stop Joining the AI. Lets join with another organization like the Mortgage lenders/brokers and see with there lobby can put the HVCC to bed.

where are you located LETUSFIGHT4OURRIGTS? Northern CA is starting a group to meet.

Where can I locate the missing comments that are no longer available on this site. And why all the duplicates?

Ok I will reconsider joining the appraisal institute. But how are we going to work together to address this issue. I believe the leadership at the appraisal institute is weak and self seeking. We need strong leadership and we need to work together.

So if NAR is not supporting this issue why were we told they were?

Hi Angery appraiser remember we can not win this battle alone. We need polictial representation and, we need to take a collective stand. We have to influence the american public and the people in the White House. I believe taking a stand and not doing appraisals for AMC would do this. But we need leadership and you and only get that if you have some kind of unified effort in which the majority of the appraiser speak in a collective voice and do something to improve the industry. Have you wondered why you haved had a pay raise in 20 years? But Joe the plumber gets a pay raise. It is because Joe the plumber belongs to a union.

DONT JOIN: THE APPRAISAL INSTITUTE: I am an SRA and have been since 1989, Jim Amorin (president) did nothing but suck congresses butt last time he spoke. He and Wayne Pugh sold us all down the river. Wayne sells real estate software and was surveying about creating his own mamagement company. The AI has great education classes but all they want is your money. I dont trust any of their motives. I probably will lose my designation since I cant F g pay for it anymore.

Here is my question and the answer from NAR Thank you for contacting NAR's InfoCentral. NAR is aware of the HVCC and is not currently taking a position to support or oppose. Here is a copy of the HVCC summary and FAQ document: The Home Valuation Code of Conduct New York State Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (government sponsored enterprises) announced the final agreement of the Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) on December 23, 2009, to change appraiser selection criteria that will help eliminate conflicts of interest on mortgage appraisals. The agreement has the support of the Federal Housing Finance Administration (FHFA). The requirements will have a significant impact on appraisal practices by lenders as they will have to comply with the new requirements agreed-to by the government sponsored enterprises (GSE) if the lenders sell mortgages to the GSEs. The GSEs have agreed to implement the HVCC beginning May 1, 2009. During 2008, the GSEs received comments from market participants. The HVCC will be implemented establishing standards on solicitation, selection, compensation, conflicts of interest and appraiser independence. Mortgage brokers and real estate agents are prohibited from selecting appraisers. Lenders are permitted to use "in house" staff appraisers to conduct appraisals. However, the loan production staff is prohibited from (1) selecting, retaining, recommending, or influencing the selection of an appraiser for an appraisal assignment or for inclusion on an appraisal roster and (2) having any substantive conversation with an appraiser or appraisal management company regarding valuation, including ordering or managing an appraisal assignment. The code entitles the borrower to one copy of an appraisal report, free of charge, within 3 days of the closing of the loan. The Independent Valuation Protection Institute (IVPI) will establish a telephone hotline and E-mail address to receive complaints from appraisers and users of appraisal services on the improper influence or attempted improper influence of appraisers. The Institute will publish and promote best practices for independent valuation. Lenders are prohibited from retaliating against any person or entity that makes a complaint to the IVPI. Frequently Asked Questions Does this agreement concern only mortgages in New York State? No, this agreement applies to mortgages across the country. After January 1, 2009, the GSEs will not purchase single-family loans from mortgage originators in any state that do not agree to adopt the Home Valuation Protection Code. Does this agreement apply to all lenders? Lenders that do not intend to sell their loans to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac are not obligated to adhere to the HVCC. GSEs may exclude lenders that meet the definition of "small bank" according to 12 USC§ 2908 and which the GSE determines would suffer hardships from provisions of the HVCC. However, excluded lenders must otherwise comply with the other provisions of the Code and meet appropriate standards of appraiser independence. Who is responsible for applying the HVCC? The GSEs will apply the new code to lenders selling mortgages on the secondary mortgage market. What does this agreement mean for the independent appraiser? Independent appraisers, appraisal companies, and appraisers managed by lenders or settlement companies must continue to meet appropriate standards of appraiser independence, including following Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP) and maintaining relevant state licenses or certifications. What does this agreement mean for REALTORS„¥ ? Individual REALTORS„¥ and licensed real estate agents cannot serve as a third party between a lender and appraiser. This includes selection, retention, and compensation of an appraiser. Broker REALTORS„¥ that offer services as a lender or affiliated lender and appraiser services must comply fully with the HVCC if there is an expectation that their loans will be purchased by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac after May 1, 2009. Is this agreement federal law? No. This is an agreement signed by two government-sponsored corporations, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the New York State Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo. The federal regulator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) also signed the agreement. No legislation was passed or signed into law with respect to this agreement. Are real estate agents prohibited from communicating with appraisers? No. As mentioned above, Individual REALTORS„¥ and licensed real estate agents cannot serve as a third party between a lender and appraiser. This includes selection, retention, and compensation of an appraiser. A third party, including REALTORS„¥ and real estate agents, can still ask appraisers for additional information, provide additional information to an appraiser, or ask for corrections of factual errors. Can lenders work only through appraisal management companies? No, lenders may order appraisals directly from an individual appraiser. Lenders that utilize in-house appraisers can still order appraisals as long as they are independent of the loan production staff and do not ultimately report to an officer who manages loan production. Appraiser misconduct action will be conducted by state licensing agencies. What is new? The code is primarily directed at regulating banks and other mortgage lenders and promoting appraisal independence. Does the HVCC apply to FHA loans? No. As of January 15, 2009, only Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have agreed to adopt the code. The HVCC does not apply to FHA loans and the Federal Home Loan Banks are not participating. Are lenders prohibited from requesting a second appraisal? No, lenders are only prohibited from ordering a second appraisal if attempting to influence the outcome of the first appraisal. Section I.B.(9) of the HVCC addresses the issue of second appraisals. Does the HVCC prohibit borrowers from providing payment directly to appraisers? Yes, only the lender or a third party authorized to select and retain the appraiser can provide compensation to the appraiser. Are settlement service firms permitted to order appraisals? Yes, settlement service firms may order appraisals assuming they comply with the HVCC. If you need further assistance, please contact InfoCentral at 800-874-6500 or email: InfoCentral@realtors.org. Please note: we receivethousands of emails each week, so unless you reply with your original comment or question (or previous email replies), it is difficult for us to respond quickly. If there has been previous email correspondence, -please- include it when replying to this mail. kbw > ---------------------------- > From: lighthouseapp@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:06:19 AM > To: InfoCentral@realtors.org > CC: > Subject: Other-deediefew1 > > > »» The HVCC Fight Is On With H.R. 3044 - 06.29.09 > “If you are supporting this bill, why have you not sent out the petition > for us to sign? I signed it on the website thinkbigworksmall.com. I think > since you have the member roster that you should send the petition and > keep us posted on the bill.�

Here is my question and the answer from NAR Thank you for contacting NAR's InfoCentral. NAR is aware of the HVCC and is not currently taking a position to support or oppose. Here is a copy of the HVCC summary and FAQ document: The Home Valuation Code of Conduct New York State Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (government sponsored enterprises) announced the final agreement of the Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) on December 23, 2009, to change appraiser selection criteria that will help eliminate conflicts of interest on mortgage appraisals. The agreement has the support of the Federal Housing Finance Administration (FHFA). The requirements will have a significant impact on appraisal practices by lenders as they will have to comply with the new requirements agreed-to by the government sponsored enterprises (GSE) if the lenders sell mortgages to the GSEs. The GSEs have agreed to implement the HVCC beginning May 1, 2009. During 2008, the GSEs received comments from market participants. The HVCC will be implemented establishing standards on solicitation, selection, compensation, conflicts of interest and appraiser independence. Mortgage brokers and real estate agents are prohibited from selecting appraisers. Lenders are permitted to use "in house" staff appraisers to conduct appraisals. However, the loan production staff is prohibited from (1) selecting, retaining, recommending, or influencing the selection of an appraiser for an appraisal assignment or for inclusion on an appraisal roster and (2) having any substantive conversation with an appraiser or appraisal management company regarding valuation, including ordering or managing an appraisal assignment. The code entitles the borrower to one copy of an appraisal report, free of charge, within 3 days of the closing of the loan. The Independent Valuation Protection Institute (IVPI) will establish a telephone hotline and E-mail address to receive complaints from appraisers and users of appraisal services on the improper influence or attempted improper influence of appraisers. The Institute will publish and promote best practices for independent valuation. Lenders are prohibited from retaliating against any person or entity that makes a complaint to the IVPI. Frequently Asked Questions Does this agreement concern only mortgages in New York State? No, this agreement applies to mortgages across the country. After January 1, 2009, the GSEs will not purchase single-family loans from mortgage originators in any state that do not agree to adopt the Home Valuation Protection Code. Does this agreement apply to all lenders? Lenders that do not intend to sell their loans to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac are not obligated to adhere to the HVCC. GSEs may exclude lenders that meet the definition of "small bank" according to 12 USC§ 2908 and which the GSE determines would suffer hardships from provisions of the HVCC. However, excluded lenders must otherwise comply with the other provisions of the Code and meet appropriate standards of appraiser independence. Who is responsible for applying the HVCC? The GSEs will apply the new code to lenders selling mortgages on the secondary mortgage market. What does this agreement mean for the independent appraiser? Independent appraisers, appraisal companies, and appraisers managed by lenders or settlement companies must continue to meet appropriate standards of appraiser independence, including following Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP) and maintaining relevant state licenses or certifications. What does this agreement mean for REALTORS„¥ ? Individual REALTORS„¥ and licensed real estate agents cannot serve as a third party between a lender and appraiser. This includes selection, retention, and compensation of an appraiser. Broker REALTORS„¥ that offer services as a lender or affiliated lender and appraiser services must comply fully with the HVCC if there is an expectation that their loans will be purchased by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac after May 1, 2009. Is this agreement federal law? No. This is an agreement signed by two government-sponsored corporations, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the New York State Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo. The federal regulator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) also signed the agreement. No legislation was passed or signed into law with respect to this agreement. Are real estate agents prohibited from communicating with appraisers? No. As mentioned above, Individual REALTORS„¥ and licensed real estate agents cannot serve as a third party between a lender and appraiser. This includes selection, retention, and compensation of an appraiser. A third party, including REALTORS„¥ and real estate agents, can still ask appraisers for additional information, provide additional information to an appraiser, or ask for corrections of factual errors. Can lenders work only through appraisal management companies? No, lenders may order appraisals directly from an individual appraiser. Lenders that utilize in-house appraisers can still order appraisals as long as they are independent of the loan production staff and do not ultimately report to an officer who manages loan production. Appraiser misconduct action will be conducted by state licensing agencies. What is new? The code is primarily directed at regulating banks and other mortgage lenders and promoting appraisal independence. Does the HVCC apply to FHA loans? No. As of January 15, 2009, only Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have agreed to adopt the code. The HVCC does not apply to FHA loans and the Federal Home Loan Banks are not participating. Are lenders prohibited from requesting a second appraisal? No, lenders are only prohibited from ordering a second appraisal if attempting to influence the outcome of the first appraisal. Section I.B.(9) of the HVCC addresses the issue of second appraisals. Does the HVCC prohibit borrowers from providing payment directly to appraisers? Yes, only the lender or a third party authorized to select and retain the appraiser can provide compensation to the appraiser. Are settlement service firms permitted to order appraisals? Yes, settlement service firms may order appraisals assuming they comply with the HVCC. If you need further assistance, please contact InfoCentral at 800-874-6500 or email: InfoCentral@realtors.org. Please note: we receivethousands of emails each week, so unless you reply with your original comment or question (or previous email replies), it is difficult for us to respond quickly. If there has been previous email correspondence, -please- include it when replying to this mail. kbw > ---------------------------- > From: lighthouseapp@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:06:19 AM > To: InfoCentral@realtors.org > CC: > Subject: Other-deediefew1 > > > »» The HVCC Fight Is On With H.R. 3044 - 06.29.09 > “If you are supporting this bill, why have you not sent out the petition > for us to sign? I signed it on the website thinkbigworksmall.com. I think > since you have the member roster that you should send the petition and > keep us posted on the bill.�

Here is my question and the answer from NAR Thank you for contacting NAR's InfoCentral. NAR is aware of the HVCC and is not currently taking a position to support or oppose. Here is a copy of the HVCC summary and FAQ document: The Home Valuation Code of Conduct New York State Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (government sponsored enterprises) announced the final agreement of the Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) on December 23, 2009, to change appraiser selection criteria that will help eliminate conflicts of interest on mortgage appraisals. The agreement has the support of the Federal Housing Finance Administration (FHFA). The requirements will have a significant impact on appraisal practices by lenders as they will have to comply with the new requirements agreed-to by the government sponsored enterprises (GSE) if the lenders sell mortgages to the GSEs. The GSEs have agreed to implement the HVCC beginning May 1, 2009. During 2008, the GSEs received comments from market participants. The HVCC will be implemented establishing standards on solicitation, selection, compensation, conflicts of interest and appraiser independence. Mortgage brokers and real estate agents are prohibited from selecting appraisers. Lenders are permitted to use "in house" staff appraisers to conduct appraisals. However, the loan production staff is prohibited from (1) selecting, retaining, recommending, or influencing the selection of an appraiser for an appraisal assignment or for inclusion on an appraisal roster and (2) having any substantive conversation with an appraiser or appraisal management company regarding valuation, including ordering or managing an appraisal assignment. The code entitles the borrower to one copy of an appraisal report, free of charge, within 3 days of the closing of the loan. The Independent Valuation Protection Institute (IVPI) will establish a telephone hotline and E-mail address to receive complaints from appraisers and users of appraisal services on the improper influence or attempted improper influence of appraisers. The Institute will publish and promote best practices for independent valuation. Lenders are prohibited from retaliating against any person or entity that makes a complaint to the IVPI. Frequently Asked Questions Does this agreement concern only mortgages in New York State? No, this agreement applies to mortgages across the country. After January 1, 2009, the GSEs will not purchase single-family loans from mortgage originators in any state that do not agree to adopt the Home Valuation Protection Code. Does this agreement apply to all lenders? Lenders that do not intend to sell their loans to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac are not obligated to adhere to the HVCC. GSEs may exclude lenders that meet the definition of "small bank" according to 12 USC§ 2908 and which the GSE determines would suffer hardships from provisions of the HVCC. However, excluded lenders must otherwise comply with the other provisions of the Code and meet appropriate standards of appraiser independence. Who is responsible for applying the HVCC? The GSEs will apply the new code to lenders selling mortgages on the secondary mortgage market. What does this agreement mean for the independent appraiser? Independent appraisers, appraisal companies, and appraisers managed by lenders or settlement companies must continue to meet appropriate standards of appraiser independence, including following Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP) and maintaining relevant state licenses or certifications. What does this agreement mean for REALTORS„¥ ? Individual REALTORS„¥ and licensed real estate agents cannot serve as a third party between a lender and appraiser. This includes selection, retention, and compensation of an appraiser. Broker REALTORS„¥ that offer services as a lender or affiliated lender and appraiser services must comply fully with the HVCC if there is an expectation that their loans will be purchased by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac after May 1, 2009. Is this agreement federal law? No. This is an agreement signed by two government-sponsored corporations, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the New York State Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo. The federal regulator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) also signed the agreement. No legislation was passed or signed into law with respect to this agreement. Are real estate agents prohibited from communicating with appraisers? No. As mentioned above, Individual REALTORS„¥ and licensed real estate agents cannot serve as a third party between a lender and appraiser. This includes selection, retention, and compensation of an appraiser. A third party, including REALTORS„¥ and real estate agents, can still ask appraisers for additional information, provide additional information to an appraiser, or ask for corrections of factual errors. Can lenders work only through appraisal management companies? No, lenders may order appraisals directly from an individual appraiser. Lenders that utilize in-house appraisers can still order appraisals as long as they are independent of the loan production staff and do not ultimately report to an officer who manages loan production. Appraiser misconduct action will be conducted by state licensing agencies. What is new? The code is primarily directed at regulating banks and other mortgage lenders and promoting appraisal independence. Does the HVCC apply to FHA loans? No. As of January 15, 2009, only Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have agreed to adopt the code. The HVCC does not apply to FHA loans and the Federal Home Loan Banks are not participating. Are lenders prohibited from requesting a second appraisal? No, lenders are only prohibited from ordering a second appraisal if attempting to influence the outcome of the first appraisal. Section I.B.(9) of the HVCC addresses the issue of second appraisals. Does the HVCC prohibit borrowers from providing payment directly to appraisers? Yes, only the lender or a third party authorized to select and retain the appraiser can provide compensation to the appraiser. Are settlement service firms permitted to order appraisals? Yes, settlement service firms may order appraisals assuming they comply with the HVCC. If you need further assistance, please contact InfoCentral at 800-874-6500 or email: InfoCentral@realtors.org. Please note: we receivethousands of emails each week, so unless you reply with your original comment or question (or previous email replies), it is difficult for us to respond quickly. If there has been previous email correspondence, -please- include it when replying to this mail. kbw > ---------------------------- > From: lighthouseapp@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:06:19 AM > To: InfoCentral@realtors.org > CC: > Subject: Other-deediefew1 > > > »» The HVCC Fight Is On With H.R. 3044 - 06.29.09 > “If you are supporting this bill, why have you not sent out the petition > for us to sign? I signed it on the website thinkbigworksmall.com. I think > since you have the member roster that you should send the petition and > keep us posted on the bill.�

LOCATED IN SANTA CRUZ COUNTY.. LETS ALL INTERESTED PEOPLE MEET SOMEWHERE.. EMAIL ME YOUR GUY'S INFO IF YOU'RE INTERESTED..

We can hit them all in their wallets.. Lets all try to get involved with our local appraisers at least at a local level and then If we see people involved we'll try to expand by????? lets get together and brainstorm this.. jc-appraisals@sbcglobal.net

HVCCSUCKS; call me.... 897 0677 and write Ronn Owns at KGO!!!!! I have lots of free time.

Where is the Appraisal Institute who is the watch dog for USPAP. USPAP already had ethics for appraisers. The APPRAISAL INSTITUTE needs to get there heads out of the sand and stick up for the appraisers who follow there rules and also USPAP. The lobbyists in this country run everything and now have F--- up Mortgage lending with HVCC that does nothing for appraisers except reduce there fee's which have been the same for over 18 years that I have been in this profession. Starting a Union will not work because ONE you will not get everyone on board unless you had to join to get Licensed and the states will not by that at all. The best way is to get everyone who belongs to the APPRAISAL INSTITUTE to cancel there membership until they stop the HVCC crap. That my friends will work better than a union, hit them where it hurts IN THE WALLET.

Where is the Appraisal Institute who is the watch dog for USPAP. USPAP already had ethics for appraisers. The APPRAISAL INSTITUTE needs to get there heads out of the sand and stick up for the appraisers who follow there rules and also USPAP. The lobbyists in this country run everything and now have F--- up Mortgage lending with HVCC that does nothing for appraisers except reduce there fee's which have been the same for over 18 years that I have been in this profession. Starting a Union will not work because ONE you will not get everyone on board unless you had to join to get Licensed and the states will not by that at all. The best way is to get everyone who belongs to the APPRAISAL INSTITUTE to cancel there membership until they stop the HVCC crap. That my friends will work better than a union, hit them where it hurts IN THE WALLET.

Where is the Appraisal Institute who is the watch dog for USPAP. USPAP already had ethics for appraisers. The APPRAISAL INSTITUTE needs to get there heads out of the sand and stick up for the appraisers who follow there rules and also USPAP. The lobbyists in this country run everything and now have F--- up Mortgage lending with HVCC that does nothing for appraisers except reduce there fee's which have been the same for over 18 years that I have been in this profession. Starting a Union will not work because ONE you will not get everyone on board unless you had to join to get Licensed and the states will not by that at all. The best way is to get everyone who belongs to the APPRAISAL INSTITUTE to cancel there membership until they stop the HVCC crap. That my friends will work better than a union, hit them where it hurts IN THE WALLET.

Hey HVCCSUCKS here is my email address. advancedappraisers@gmail.com. I am going to join the appraisal institute this month. Please email me your contact information.

Where is the Appraisal Institute who is the watch dog for USPAP. USPAP already had ethics for appraisers. The APPRAISAL INSTITUTE needs to get there heads out of the sand and stick up for the appraisers who follow there rules and also USPAP. The lobbyists in this country run everything and now have F--- up Mortgage lending with HVCC that does nothing for appraisers except reduce there fee's which have been the same for over 18 years that I have been in this profession. Starting a Union will not work because ONE you will not get everyone on board unless you had to join to get Licensed and the states will not by that at all. The best way is to get everyone who belongs to the APPRAISAL INSTITUTE to cancel there membership until they stop the HVCC crap. That my friends will work better than a union, hit them where it hurts IN THE WALLET.

Where is the Appraisal Institute who is the watch dog for USPAP. USPAP already had ethics for appraisers. The APPRAISAL INSTITUTE needs to get there heads out of the sand and stick up for the appraisers who follow there rules and also USPAP. The lobbyists in this country run everything and now have F--- up Mortgage lending with HVCC that does nothing for appraisers except reduce there fee's which have been the same for over 18 years that I have been in this profession. Starting a Union will not work because ONE you will not get everyone on board unless you had to join to get Licensed and the states will not by that at all. The best way is to get everyone who belongs to the APPRAISAL INSTITUTE to cancel there membership until they stop the HVCC crap. That my friends will work better than a union, hit them where it hurts IN THE WALLET.

HVCCSUCKS; call me.... 897 0677 and write Ronn Owns at KGO!!!!! I have lots of free time.

I think it starts with us appraisers agreeing on a local level first. We need to agree in our local appraisal membership offices with going in this direction. The hard part is the organization and, getting everybody to agree to work together. If we did this the press would get involve and we can tell our side of the story and thus win the hearts and minds of the American public. Most people probably believe that we are charging them more money for the appraisal. They don't know that the appraisal management company is getting 50% of the appraisal fee. Most appraisers don't believe in working together but, they believe in working for less money for the AMC. In the appraisal industry there is becoming less and less professionalism. The word union means doing things together. Also union put professionalism in there prospective industries. I believe that each member needs to submit an appraisal report and that each appraisal report gets critique and comment made on how to improve our appraisal reports which will give us an advantage over the AMC. The AMC weakness is quality how can we capitalize on our advantage. I would like to help out too with starting a union of some sort. There should also be laws which prevent appraisers who are not local appraisers to do appraiser reports that are out of their area of expertise, for example a California appraiser doing an appraisal in Colorado. I believe you should do appraisal in your only state or adjoining states if live close by the boarders. I also believe that should be determined my the appraisers who are a part of the union.

HOPEFULLY WE CAN TRIGGER A CHAIN REACTION..

I'm in too.. I am also in northern California.. I think we need to get a forum going and have our local appraisers sign in to it with their info so we can start comunicating with them and giving out updates.. i'm willing to put money and my time to get this going..

OK…… I’m game. I’m in Northern California, how do we get this started. I just emailed a local radio show in hopes they will put something on the air about it. We need a forum to get the word out. ONLY work for your normal fee. YOU DON'T want anyone regulating where you can and can't appraise. They are talking about that now, and if they set the radius too short, you will loose party of your area (even your county if it is large).

I think it starts with agreeing on a local level first. We need to agree in our local appraisal membership offices with going in this direction. The hard part is the organization and getting everybody on the same page. I we did this the press would get involve and we can tell our side of the story and win the hearts and minds of the american public. Most people probably believe that we are charging them more money for the appraisal. They don't know that the appraisal management company is get 50% of the appraisal fee. Most appraiser don't believe in having union representation but, they believe in working for less for AMC. The work union mean doing thing together. I would like to help out too with starting a union of some sort. There should also be laws which prevent appraisers who are not local appraisers to do appraiser reports that are out of their area of expertize. For example a California appraiser doing an appraisal in Colorado.

letusfight4ourrights is right... WE NEED SOMEKIND OF UNION.. IF THERE IS ANYONE THAT CAN GUIDE US.. I'M WILLING TO HELP OUT IN THE BATTLE AGAINST HVCC..

I hate HVCC it is really bad. What appraisers need to do is start working together with their local appraiser membership and their local membership need to work to together with other local membership. Joe the plumber may not be as talented as most of us but what he does have is a union who has standard for his fees. The problem with us appraiser is we are to dam independent. We don't know how to work together. Until we find a way to work together collectively HVCC will be around for a long time. What we need to do is talk about a period of time in which us appraiser just stop doing appraisals. Let can it a strike in which appraisers all across the country collectively send the banks and the AMC a collective powerful punch. But all of this requires organization and leadership. We appraiser are talented their must be a group of appraisers out there who can organize this. I believe in our local conferences we should be focusing to address this issue. Right because we are not organized we can only throw little punches. We need to take a union type approach, and have the banks work through our unions and have FNMA accept our unions. According to this video it looks like the appraisal management companies are getting organized something us dumb appraiser refuse to do. I don't mind paying union fees if it will destroy the appraisal management companies, protect our income, give us regular pay increases and, give us a stronger voice in the white house.

I have a new AMC nightmare story that got my client so pissed off that he's gone to his local congressman to complain. The AMC cut our value by $160k. Average values for SFRs in the area are $350k and the appraiser brought his 2 unit/Owner occ at $390k. We have an appraisal less than a year old at $575k. WTF??

Happy 4th of July! Have some fun this weekend and let's get back on this next week. I went fishing this morning and had a great time, I only ended up with 1 keeper. But,it reminded me that a bad day fishing is a hell of lot better than a good day @ work with HVCC

July 4th is your independance! Only work for your normal fee no matter who the client is!!!! Let get on with it, stop being such cowards! How many times do I have to say it?

America F$#k Ya! Other than Trey Parker and Matt Stone, Frank Garay and Brian Stevens are the funniest guys on earth.

HVCCSCUKS is correct..... DON:T work for them unless you get your normal fee. I only work for my normal fee. Again, I may do 1 job to AMCs 2+ but I'd be willing to bet I make the same amount. ONLY WORK FOR YOUR NORMAL FEE or Don't work for that AMC.

It’s really very simple guys – American Independence! Why are you letting AMCs set your fee? I just don’t get it…... that is NOT American! JULY 4th to 10th go on vacation and don’t take any orders from AMCs. When you return; work for your NORMAL FEE only, it doesn’t matter who gives you the assignment. ….. work smarter not harder! THIS MUST get into the media’s face! IT IS EXTORTION; obtained by force or improper pressure (wouldn’t that be your fee?). What a bunch of babies you appraisers are. WHY ARE YOU LETTING SOMEONE ELSE SET YOUR FEE??????

WE NEED A LEADER TO GUIDE US ALL.. Even if we know we have a problem we're still not doing anything about it.. I'm very sorry to admit that our letters are not being read.. The best way to be heard would be to stop working for this AMC's.. I'VE BEEN DOING MY PART.. HAVE YOU??? LETS ALL UNITE....

It's good to see that appraisers have become aware of the crimes committed by not only greedy banks and Wall Street but also our corrupt politicians and regulators as well. Unfortuantely it took something like HVCC to wake us up because it's pinching us hard. Many thanks also to this website for acting as a vehicle to get this info out to appraisers and others in the industry. In addition to banding together to overturn HVCC, may I suggest in all upcoming elections to RE-ELECT NOBODY. The truth is that about 95% of our career politicians do not represent we the people. The fact is that these politicieans have SOLD US OUT. They represent themselves and are bought and paid for by special interest groups.

When do we as appraisers just stop taking orders through this system? And when do we stop blaming appraisers and brokers for the mess we are in. Its the banks who offered crappy loan programs to begin with (for more profits) and now they run the AMC's we are all having to deal with (again for more profits), even after we gave them billions to to keep them afloat! Enough is enough. Sitting back and bitching is going to do nothing. Do you really think our elected officials are really reading the emails we send? NO, they have some dipdoodoo going through them and deleting them cause they have more pressing issues to deal with such as how to travel on our dime to get laid in another country. We really need to take ACTION, not just say we are tired of it. When do we as a group go SEE our elected officials and DEMAND a change? Come on people, grow some balls and lets get this crap taken care of. We've worked to hard building a business to have it taken away by our uneducated government! I want to give one example of an HVCC deal that I just had a lengthy discussion with a borrower about. This guy paid $600 for an appraisal which was so horrible, they had to them pay for a review and another appraisal totaling $1300. The initial appraiser sent some unlicensed a-hole to go measure and inspect the property and email him the pictures and info so he could type up the appraisal. The house is in Greeley Colorado and the appraiser as it turns out is in California! WTF?! Turns out the AMC says it is ok because the California appraiser has a license in Colorado which makes it legal under there system! Now tell me how the HVCC is going to cure the real estate market? Its making it worse and we get to hear the consumers complain about it as if it is our fault?! Time to take a stand instead of sitting back waiting for our legislators to do something causeI hate to tell you, they don't give a damn about us.

When do we as appraisers just stop taking orders through this system? And when do we stop blaming appraisers and brokers for the mess we are in. Its the banks who offered crappy loan programs to begin with (for more profits) and now they run the AMC's we are all having to deal with (again for more profits), even after we gave them billions to to keep them afloat! Enough is enough. Sitting back and bitching is going to do nothing. Do you really think our elected officials are really reading the emails we send? NO, they have some dipdoodoo going through them and deleting them cause they have more pressing issues to deal with such as how to travel on our dime to get laid in another country. We really need to take ACTION, not just say we are tired of it. When do we as a group go SEE our elected officials and DEMAND a change? Come on people, grow some balls and lets get this crap taken care of. We've worked to hard building a business to have it taken away by our uneducated government! I want to give one example of an HVCC deal that I just had a lengthy discussion with a borrower about. This guy paid $600 for an appraisal which was so horrible, they had to them pay for a review and another appraisal totaling $1300. The initial appraiser sent some unlicensed a-hole to go measure and inspect the property and email him the pictures and info so he could type up the appraisal. The house is in Greeley Colorado and the appraiser as it turns out is in California! WTF?! Turns out the AMC says it is ok because the California appraiser has a license in Colorado which makes it legal under there system! Now tell me how the HVCC is going to cure the real estate market? Its making it worse and we get to hear the consumers complain about it as if it is our fault?! Time to take a stand instead of sitting back waiting for our legislators to do something causeI hate to tell you, they don't give a damn about us.

Hold out! Don't do AMC appraisals and the HVCC will be overturned. Yes, it's that simple.

It is a RESPA LAW that you can not charge a client more for an appraisal than the appraiser charges....did we forget the RESPA laws so quickly folks???

I have read several comments about HVCC the last 2 weeks. I do believe this is a bad system. The banks have thrown the broker out there as the bad guy and used the appraisal as an excuse that the loan was funded. The bottom line is the greediness of the banks and Wall Street is what caused this. And as it turns out...several of these AMC's are owned jointly with banks as seen on CNN! How is it the banks are still raping the customers out of money and still pointing fingers at brokers accusing them of inflated fees? Why is it when I do all the work on a small loan and I have to cut my fees because of caps on total fees and the banks still get their money regardless? How is it that the meat ball Cumo started the required appraisal ordering from AMC's and didn't make the appraisals universal to every bank...because the banks want their kick back off of the appraisals! I did not pressure appraisers to get a value...I told them what I was looking for! If my appraisers couldn't get the value they stopped the appraisal and received a token fee for their effort...this saved my customers money and my time. Now I have to originate a loan, process, package and send to underwriting. If the loan is denied due to value... I don't get compensated for my time! WTF is going on with that? I am already well below my normal income because of the market and now I have to work for free? This is just plain crazy! I want HVCC closed down, a better monitoring system in place if needed, and definitely a cost analysis done to review possible reimbursement from the AMC's for inadequate appraisals due to some knucklehead that drove 200 miles to do an appraisal and not use the right comps...etc!

simple solution: first: anyone who works for flagstar is an idiot they are the most discriminatory assholes on the planet. they can suck me off!! I had to take them to the feds for their misdeeds. they hate my guts. 2. there is a solution to this whole mess but its going to take all of us. we need first to get the realtors, NAR,loan officers ans your local MLS boards off their asses and put policies in place. primarily when a realtor makes an appointment - dont use the showing service!! BE THERE !! see who is appraising your sale or refi or whatever. ask for there certification (accept only a certified appraiser) make them prove it. ASK where are they from, whats their phone number, how much are they getting paid. If they are out of area, unlicensed trainees send them the fudge away. loan officers should tell they buyers the same thing and the sellers. anyone who has contact with these morons should control the situation. REFUSE THEM ACCESS OR AN APPOINTMENT hello !!!!! its that simple screw the amc's lets control our own businesses.

I spend $700 on two appraisals for my customer (out of MY pocket). The first appraisal, then a review appraisal. The review appraisal showed how HORRIBLE the first appraisal was from the RANDOMLY selected appraiser. If I had been able to use my regular appraiser, he would have discussed the realities of the value numbers with us after his initial reviews and charged my nothing. This would have still killed the deal, but at least we wouldn't be out $700.00 on two worthless appraisals. Thanks Washington! Who out there can I submit worthless appraisal invoices to? Now I NEED A BAILOUT!

Happy Birthday!

I think the strike idea just might do the trick! If everyone took off at the same time, you would definitely see EVERYONE in this business get peeved. When that happens, you finally have their attention. The next step however is the most important. When you have the spotlight, DANCE!!!!!!!

wont work for AMC's anymore for reduced fee work, local banks are full price and an AMC wants an appraisal for 70% of cost, how is this fair to the local bank, local agents are getting deals squashed by out of area appraisers which is in my opinion a violation of USPAP by not knowing the area/market, 15 years in biz and looking to get out, but doing what I have no idea

The HVCC is a travestry. I've been in the business for over 20 years and having someone from Ontario, California appraising Pacific Palisades. The appraiser had no clue and missed the purchase price by $300K. Fortunately, we ordered another appraisal and the appraiser just happened to be local, had appraised the property several times before. The client had to pay for the second appraisal as well as the per diem interest penalty for not closing on time. He also had his deposit threatened when the seller issued a notice to perform.

We must have more appraisalport type companies instead of these blood sucking AMCs. The bottom line: I am pissed beyond beyond. Looking back my 18 years; it's been very sad to say the least. To think once I aspired to earn a MAI or SRA designation; good thing I did not spend the money. I am making more $$$ now as a realtor. The $$$ just isn't there from appraisals. I wanted to slap the guy so bad once during an inspection when the guy said he pay $500 for an appraisal, you'd better give me a good appraisal!!!!

We must have more appraisalport type companies instead of these blood sucking AMCs. The bottom line: I am pissed beyond beyond. Looking back my 18 years; it's been very sad to say the least. To think once I aspired to earn a MAI or SRA designation; good thing I did not spend the money. I am making more $$$ now as a realtor. The $$$ just isn't there from appraisals. I wanted to slap the guy so bad once during an inspection when the guy said he pay $500 for an appraisal, you'd better give me a good appraisal!!!!

Who are these AMC's really!! I have noticed First American's name frequently and address's that are near large lenders. It almost appears that they are wolves in sheep's clothing (banks). We are all being used. When we sell our souls to pay bills we are asked for more reduced fees, emails for orders in your area that are gone in a minute, ridiculous conditions and phone calls almost 24 hours a day. Don't we all have constitutiion rights! I am all for a two week boycott to a resort area, so we can write it OFF like the rest of them!!

Yes the appraisal is assignable/portable , but EACH LENDER USES A DIFFERENT AMG and the appraisal is now useless if the loan is rejected!!!

What about the AMC's that file bankruptcy ? The only way you can work is with an AMC and we are paid through them, I remember Express Financial and from the paperwork I got about the bankruptcy I am not the only one that ended up not getting paid.

While Fnma has instituted the Multiple Property program, allowing up to 10 financed properties, only a few lender offer this program. Flagstar Bank is one of them. One other advantage with Flagstar, is that you order the HVCC appraisal directly in their system, and do not have to wait to an approval. The appraisal is portable as well. If the loan was denied or counter-offered, or if the rate was not locked or you did not use their underwriters by submitting a package, the loan will be released without charge.

Anne, I think you need to be better educated. I have lost an entire business that took years to build because of the HVCC implementation. Now I survive on appraisal request I receive from banks, which are few and far in between. I have been offered assignments from AMC's that I turn down because I wont work for nothing.

Before, they want you to stop you think the value is not coming in as stated; now, they want you to stop if you see anything wrong with the house???!!! isn't that the same thing???!!! The AMCs will pay a small trip fee if the order is cancelled because you find something wrong with the house; like remodeling in progress; illegal conversion or additions, encrochments, whatever. They want you to then stop the appraisal. Does anyone think some appraiser will just take a chance in ignoring or not reporting the defects? Oh, you are right; at least you get a trip fee unlike before, you don't get anything. Some people think appraisers are making a killing; they haven't a clue for thinking like that. You don't want a pissed off appraiser to show up for the inspection. 100% of the AMC appraisers are showing up pissed; and demoralized. But, they still put up with a brave and smiling faces. Come on; give appraiser's a well deserved break. Everybody pressured the appraisers; HVCC was to stop the b/s pressures; but, it also created monster AMCs. Either way, appraisers are screwed FBAR. So, please, stop picking on all the poor appraisers. 18 year certified residential appraiser. 20 year realtor in california.

What about the portability that was promised? We cannot order appraisals until the loan receives an automated approval. Just had a loan approved through Wells Fargo where the borrower owned 5 properties and then was subsequently denied by underwriting because they only accept a maximum of 4. Fannie had just re-instituted the 10 limit!! Cannot use the appraisal for anyone else!!! Amtrust and Flagstar will accept the 10 property rule but borrower is balking at another appraisal fee!!!

I have been in business for many years. Spent numerous $ on continuing ed, licenses, paid my dues, only to get screwed by Cuomo. I agree fellow appraisers, stand up and tell them to f off. no appraisals, no loans.

Just this week we had an appraisal returned from an AMC appraiser that was 70K over the contract price because of the added value of the finished basement and the upgraded outbuildings. This particular home doesn't have a basement or outbuildings. Now the lender doesn't want to loan because we didn't have the outbuildings inspected. Can we all say incompetence? Now, the consumer has to pay a new fee to the AMC for the appraiser to visit the property again and verify there is not a basement or outbuildings. The sad thing is this is the third appraisal in two weeks with bad information on it. How does any of this help the consumer?

You are wrong Anne. Our fees are cut and as was stated earlier, we have to pay a fee to receive the appraisal order so...we are working harder for less money. The winner is the third party and bad appraiser, uneducated appraisers.

try this for size: you inspected a house; the amc wants you to return the preliminary report 24 hrs after inspection. Does anyone think 24 hrs is sufficient for DD? forget about the unlicensed appraisers, do you really think experienced appraisers do turn out any credible report in 24 hrs? LSI or Eappraiseit think so!!!! They called them preliminary report due the next day. What is a preliminary report?!!! That's no a report with address only for sure. Of course, there are tons of good appraisers working for these AMCs; I don't blame them; the government has made it legal to run a sweat shop. Where else can they get work? If the whole country is for slavery; what can the slave do? We need a new civil war!!! This is totally unacceptable in so many fronts. Is slavery legal? maybe it is! HVCC without the AMCs is good for appraisers. I don't mind companies like appraisalport charging a upload fee for each order; but taking 1/3 or 2/3 from appraiser's hard work is exploitation. Fellow appraisers, are you better off now? Or are you ready to retire? I hired a plumber to run a camera down the sewer line recently, the charge was $250; how is this making you feel? The whole process took less than 15 mins. You know why Joe the plumber, yeah, that's right, plumbers, lic. or not, are making a better living than you! Have you done your continued Ed for your renewal? Are you pissed like I am ?

Indeed, the percentage being digested is cruel and unsual and should be capped since we do the work. And as stated, the overhead is our responsibility, including liability. Enabling this legalized exploitation is beyond beyond. In addition, the Realtors are suffering, as are their clients, the buyers and sellers. I like the Network idea of "hell no, we are not going to take it any more"

Anne, The appraisers are getting screwed! The only ones getting rich are the AMC's. Sure we get paid but about 1/3 of the fee. Think about it. Do you think the appraiser is going to put full effort into something for less of a fee. I know it breaks all ethics, but believe me there are many appraisers out there who dont care anymore.

I dont do appraisals for less than full price. If every appraiser would just stand up and say "hell no", I know this would be resolved quicker. No appraisals, no loans. Makes sense.

No one is winning with HVCC except the appraisers .. they get paid regardless! Lenders and realtors are getting screwed. This industry will never get on a level playing ground until this HVCC gets reversed.

How about some legislation capping AMC's income at 10% of the amount charged per appraisal? After all, lender/broker income is capped to protect the consumer, shouldn't they be protected against greedy AMC's as well? (tongue in cheek here) HVCC still needs to get REPEALED rather than an 18 month moratorium, but I guess something is better than nothing. Wonder how many purchases (let alone refi's) have blown up so far? Has to be in the thousands nationally!

Same old situation. We have people that have no knowledge of the real estate transaction as a whole making rules and standards. I'm just glad we have a great Realtor lobby that sends us pre formed petitions and we just click to sign to send to our senators, governors etc.

Appraisers are working for the company store; at the end of day, appraisers pay for their e&o insurance, their car & gas, office and data expense, their own training, continue Eds, and for less than half the fees; is this strikingly familiar to slavery? Is this in the interest of common good? This is a legalized exploitation like the garment workers working in sweat shops in 3rd world countries. Appraisers have for too long, been too naive and stupid to organize for their rights. Does anyone think the doctors or the lawyers be willing to go along like the appraisers with this idea of working for a company store? Appraisers, it's time to wake up and fight for your rights; stop the bitching like an old toothless pussycat. Of course, you can still be happy working for the AMCs just like there are slaves happy working for their masters for nothing.

HVCC absolutely blows, but it's Franks birthday. I hope you have a safe and joyous birthday.

It is just amazing that their contention that inserting another middle person into the mix which bases their distribution of appraisal assignments to those who charge the least amount of money could be beneficial. The work also goes to those who will get their reports in overnight, which can only insure the quality of the reports will be substandard. With a significant amount of field review experience, it is disturbing to see the quality of appraisal reports that pass through the volume discounters and third party amatuer managemtn clowns/clones fall further than it had been prior to the HVCC irrational exuberance installed into the mix/mess. Real appraisers, having provided their services to the industry over the long term are now being penalized due to the availability of the new, the desperate and the misinformed. Im all for the strike. Let's get organized, and Let's Do It.

I'm a 20 year independent fee appraiser and I won't work for the low wages AMC give to appraisers. Everyone should hold out. Then the Govt/Obama would change the rules again.

We need to boycott AMCs...not only are the ones I've dealt with CLUELESS, they expect us to work for peanuts. They have no idea what it costs to run an appraisal business. Happy Birthday Frank! :)

This is a travesty. Appraisals are not accepted by FANNIE MAE will not accept our appraisals unless they are ordered through these 3rd parties yet. Not only do these people cut our fees they charge us a fee to get the order!!!!!!!! I have reviewed many appraisals for clients that are substandard and there is nothing the homeowner can do but order another appraisal to dispute the first appraisal and pray the second is more accurate than the first. This warehouse is a means for appraisers to submit inferior work without being held accountable for errors and sloppy work. We all knew this wouldnt work and it is the MESS we thought it would be. Frankly, I resent these people taking my money (the appraiser) for doing nothing!

I agree MSMILEY. If we all took a week or two off at the same time, the HVCC would buckle!! I love the strike idea.

If all appraisers would just stand together and refuse to accept assignments, this would eliminate the HVCC. Kind of a strike so to speak. Just a thought.

I suggest contacting your title reps and ask them: “Is XYZ Title, or any of it's affiliates, a part of the Title/Appraisal Vendor Management Association (TAVMA)? If so, do they have an official dissenting position from their association on this matter? If not, does XYZ Title, or any of it's affiliates, have a position on HVCC?” If they are members and do not have a dissenting position, they will not be getting any more title orders from me. If we hit them in a core business line that has stood the test of time, perhaps they will think twice about pushing their continued involvement with the appraisal management biz.

This is Classic... TAVMA is against HVCC... No kidding. I can't believe they would think that NAMB would bend an ear to them. Come on...