Sexiest Realtors, Lenders, Appraisers and Escrow Peeps for 2009. 02.09.10 | Personal Finance For Life / Jeff Underwood TV and Coaching

Loan Arranger: (February 18, 2010 2:24pm)

Anonomys Makes you glad he is charge. Yeah right

Anonymous: (February 18, 2010 1:08pm)

Interesting that Jon Courson feels the need to tell us "what type of message are you telling you kids if you have a house foreclosed upon." Interesting....He did not mention his ownership of Central Pacific Mortgage and that fact when he closed he did not even pay his employees their final pay check. He just closed the doors and walked away. http://ml-implode.com/imploded/lender_IvanhoeMortgageCentralPacificMortgage_2007-02-26.html http://sacramentolanding.blogspot.com/2007/03/anger-at-central-pacific-mortgage.html Let's talk about walking away.

San Francisco Banker: (February 13, 2010 9:18am)

this kinda sucks.....all this is...is a place for appraiser to bitch and complain. Too much negativity. Guys, lobbyists have deeper pocket than all of us combined. do you thing a congressman will refuse $500k to not pass/vote for a bill? Heck no!!!! adjust and move forward, or get out. and dont pull the "I have been in the industry for 20+ years" card. Look, I am not bitching about the NMLS, or the GFE2010, or the MDIA/TILA....if appraisers had to go through this doodoo they would be up in arms, again. Hook up with a good AMC and thats it. F'it because there is nothing you or I can do. I love our industry...I have no one to compete with. LOL!!! First step I took is to EMBRACE the change. the rest will follow. Please no bitching from appraisers, this is an awesome show for it to be taken over by the same appraisers bitching about the industry. Get to work!!!!

Missy: (February 13, 2010 9:10am)

Yep, there is something coming down the pike. There are all kinds of empty homes sitting around and when we call the banks, they have NO IDEA about the particular home. They have many homes like this in their inventory that are not on the market and believe me, they got something up their sleeve. I have contacted the National Association and Realtors to ask what they are doing about these crooked bankers and they say, there is nothing we can do about it. I wonder what the Prez of the NAR is being compensated for this complacency. HUMMM???

hondo: (February 12, 2010 11:29am)

How do we get in touch with TBWS??? I have sent in an earlier request for phone number to discuss this issue which is close to action we are taking. There seems to be no place for contact.

SoCalLoanGal: (February 11, 2010 7:36am)

Joecolorado, I agree and will report to OREA, realtors won't. Most of them, I hate to say it, don't have a clue what HVCC has done.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 6:13pm)

Yep, they played us for fools and are laughing about it right now.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 5:49pm)

Valuequestor, thanks from all fighting the good fight against ignorance lol. It's amazing how many people don't understand that market value is not what someone is willing to pay for it, it's what the banks can sell it for with the least amount of hassle & as fast as possible considering it's appeal to WHOLE market. WAMU used to try to tell me that market value is obvious in that it's what the buyer will pay for it-look where they are! Ohh, they're gone. All I can say is- Come on! You don't really expect us to believe that you investment/financial banking wizards actually believed that home prices would always go up! Freakin liars, down to the bone liars! They played everyone as suckers, and they and all those "wizards" (sarcasm) in charge now, including the Fed and the talking heads, think we're all too stupid to see their ponzi scheme scam. They sure are playing it up like they got away with it. How long do they think before they find out few of us were actually fooled? Soon I hope!!

Leslie in Denver: (February 10, 2010 3:37pm)

REGARDING THE VIDEO ABOUT INDY MAC/ONE WEST! I got more than 600 feeds on the discussion thread. They are still coming in today. For Dawn: I am so sorry you didn't know about this before your complaint was closed. Keep hunting for a good lawyer. You might stand a chance. These lousy, cheating, lying bastards need to be exposed in the mainstream media. Contact everyone you ever heard of in the media with this story. Good luck!

Valuequestor: (February 10, 2010 2:59pm)

That was some dog n' cat fight yesterday...glad I missed it. Good job Joecolorado, 5pence, real appraiser, Ezradams for defending the real appraisal theory. This must be round 12 of Appraasuh vs Reelter. Its a tired old fight...we rarely start it...but we do finish it. Please check out NAIHP.org if you have not done so. There is a plan to start up a grass roots appraiser group that started at the last Appraiser Summit in Las Vegas. (Dec./09). It is going to be for a political voice only at the state and national level. No CE or designations. The spark came from the Association of Texas Appraisers (ATA). I have already joined NAIHP (just $50.00 per year) and will join thenew group if it is formed. I have no problems with the Appraiser Guild where it exists. We still can all work together. I haven't heard boo from the App.Guild here in California....but go NJ chapter...keep it up!

AliSia: (February 10, 2010 2:54pm)

My comment is not related to this video. I received an email with a link to a video for today titled: Great! Another Innovative Way to Stifle Home Sales! 02.10.10 But when I click on the link this video comes up??? Anybody?

Gnotboxchecker: (February 10, 2010 2:35pm)

Brian & Frank... hit the big time today with the Zero Hedge blog citing the Indymac video. Good job.

arbrown123: (February 10, 2010 2:07pm)

You guys are too funny

SoCalApprs2: (February 10, 2010 2:01pm)

FL mortgage Lady- I have heard about this also. It may the reason may banks are sitting on their hidden inventories of properties. They are waiting for the right offer from the Government to protect them from a huge loss of their profits. I believe this is to come into affect sometime in March.

FL mortgage Lady: (February 10, 2010 1:56pm)

Hey I saw a little blurb on the news this morning about the goverment forcing lenders to give people in forclosure a new balloon loan at the current market value and then at the end of the balloon they could refi the whole amount?? I thnk they said for Florida and California loans?? Can anyone clarify this..or has anyone heard anything about it??

5pence: (February 10, 2010 1:35pm)

The Federal Reserve either sells these U.S. Treasury bonds or they keep the bonds for themselves (which happens a lot these days). So that is how the U.S. government gets more green pieces of paper called “U.S. dollars” to put into circulation. But by doing so, they get themselves into even more debt which they will owe even more interest on. So every time the U.S. government does this, the national debt gets even bigger and the interest on that debt gets even bigger. Are you starting to get the picture? Read entire article http://www.infowars.com/it-is-now-mathem... It is now mathematically impossible for the U.S. government to pay off the U.S. national debt. You see, the truth is that the U.S. government now owes more dollars than actually exist. We will be in perpetual debt for as long as the Federal Reserve system exists.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 1:31pm)

For more dollars to enter the system, the U.S. government has to go into more debt. The U.S. government does not issue U.S. currency – the Federal Reserve does. The Federal Reserve is a private bank owned and operated for profit by a very powerful group of elite international bankers. If you will pull a dollar bill out and take a look at it, you will notice that it says “Federal Reserve Note” at the top. It belongs to the Federal Reserve. The U.S. government cannot simply go out and create new money whenever it wants under our current system. Instead, it must get it from the Federal Reserve. So, when the U.S. government needs to borrow more money (which happens a lot these days) it goes over to the Federal Reserve and asks them for some more green pieces of paper called Federal Reserve Notes. The Federal Reserve swaps these green pieces of paper for pink pieces of paper called U.S. Treasury bonds. Continued

Old Dog: (February 10, 2010 12:16pm)

This $55 desktop appraisal instead of a BPO is just another nail in the coffin of every appraiser out there. The ones with integrity will refuse them. The desperate scammers will take them but not complete a credible job because there isn't any money in it. Eventually, Wells Fargo and Bank of America, etc. can offer up the "proof" that appraisals are worthless and use their AVMs and make their loans without appraiser involvement, charging their clients for their in house produced AVM. Until then they would like to make as much money off of us as they can. Banks should not be allowed to have any ownership or control of an AMC. It's ridiculous. It's the same as everything else in this country now, greed has taken over and produced a Ponzi scheme out of the whole country. How do you like being at the bottom of the pyramid?

Toby: (February 10, 2010 11:45am)

The RVS Desktop Appraisal Report is for collateral checks and not for loan purposes. It is an experiment to compare to BPOs. The pay for these is indees riduculous, and reflects the fact that most BPOs are done as loss leaders by Realtors in order to get listing business. To do a credible report will take considerable time and effort. They are not worth the money it time, and certainly not worth the LIABILITY that the appraisers is taking on. Any appraisers who signs one of these is a fool.

Ezradams: (February 10, 2010 11:21am)

Cluelessdad and all other appraisers: I visit TBWS everyday and see the same people complaining about the same stuff everyday. Do something about it!!!! Clueless, your point about calling all appraisers and uniting is being done in NJ as we speak. For the past 6 months we've made phone calls, sent postcards, held meetings, sent emails out to appraisers. It's slow going, but we're making progress. We plan on having a series of 7 meetings throughout the state in March. (Notification by a postcard mailing and emails.) We have a NJ Chapter of the American Guild of Appraisers up and running. We've made inroads on the BPO issue and are now in the early stages of writing strict AMC regulations. Our toughest fight so far is getting email addresses. Through hard work (mostly phone calls) we now have about 700 email addresses of the 2,400 appraisers in NJ. Stop fighting and complaining.....get going! Time is running out.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 11:12am)

People protest the Olympics, PETA, teachers march for wages & appraisers & brokers can't? Our country & it's wealth is being stolen and there's no protests?! What is going on?! Are the people really that apathetic that they don't care about their rights being stolen? I think it's the fear mania from the Bush administration. Everyone is afraid of terrorists and they want the government to protect them. The government is using that fear to steal your rights!! Doesn't anyone remember when Kennedy got killed that everyone was saying "if someone is willing to risk their life to take yours, nothing can stop them." That holds true for terrorists. That's it! The country is afraid! Terrorists are not a country, they are a philosophy. With diplomacy we can deal with them. With force where we're not wanted we're just raising more terrorists! Don't be fooled! This is a play to take our rights & it's happening right now!! Take action, if they want you they can get you. Stop being so afraid! ProtesT

real mark: (February 10, 2010 11:11am)

DO YOU JUST LOVE AMC'S. Here is what the headline read in one of my emails from an AMC. "The End of Appraiser Independence Begins Next Monday, February 15th.....Have You Signed Up With NATIONS VALUATION SERVICES YET????". I was under the impression that all that HVCC and removal from lenders was so we have independence. HMMM, i guess the AMC's have it right.

GW: (February 10, 2010 11:06am)

Hey this is yesterdays broadcast despite the fact you tell us it is for today. Conan is a repeat, Leno is gone now and you are repeating too. At least you are in good company :)

real appraiser: (February 10, 2010 10:25am)

Clueles, you seem like a decent guy who really wants to help. I am with you 100%. I would also help lead, but where. This is frustrating because groups like the NAR and NAMB are fighting with AI all while the banks rape the average joe citizen and small business owner. I think the only way is to send a message to politicians like forming a donation pledge against cuomo and barney frank for the oppsition. WE DO HAVE ENOUGH NUMBERS TO HIT THEM WHERE IT HURTS them, their pockets, it would get media attention if the average joe (nationwide)was dictating election in each state, Can you imagine if CUOMOS opposition suddenly found a cash cow in the nation voting against CUOMO. It has to be thought thru, determining the oppsitions view, etc. It was bought up here by myself and others then... nothing. SO FRUSTRATING.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 10:24am)

Edit: as long as the press "isn't" told to avoid us.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 10:22am)

Broker and appraisers are in the same boat, facing extinction. Soon to follow will be the realtors. I would be glad to unite with brokers against this and hopefully realtors that have some foresight would join in. Legally we can't do much. Skunking Cuomo has many, many benefits. It would show the world how unhappy we are and how unhappy they should be with the ways Cuomo and his bankster buddies has put a stranglehold on the mortgage industry - the lifeblood of America. That would help a lot as long as the press is told to avoid us, and it could happen. Look who's in control the newspapers. I say demonstrations are the only way to enact change fast enough to loosen the banks ever tightening grip. It's our Constitutional right. Yes, I protested in the 60's and 70's. I was in that peace march on Washington with 1,000,000 others. Change will not happen unless we are the change we want to see. Our careers and livelihoods are being stolen as well as the future our kids will endure in debt.

real appraiser: (February 10, 2010 10:04am)

Not bitching. I wanted to start a fair amc. Take 20 bucks to process order which is billed to lender, Give full fee to appraiser who would collect at door, process and compete with eveil AMC's. Actually had appraiser mad at me just for SAYING AMC, would not even listen to the rest of idea. I would quit appraising to start a small AMC billed to lenders, But how do you compete with the BANKS who own their own. Each bank goes through their ownED AMC. Great idea but who would your clients be

real appraiser: (February 10, 2010 9:57am)

Cont: and as someone said before, getting appraisers together is like herding cats. The biggest problem there are about 116,000 appraisers total, now subtract the ones not actually in business, now subtract those with multiple state lic, now subtract those who have no interest in getting together. Now you have enough peolpe to fill a small Denny's. Now if they could all agree on anything without a knife fight breaking out, you have enough people to do absolutely nothing. I wish I were wrong, I am not an AI member and never have been, I joined NAIHP for the hope of change, I can't get the appraisers I have trained to certification (7) to agree on anything in the past 10 years. I try to get them involved now, they are too busy avoiding foreclosure, divorce, looking for new jobs, etc. I am with you, just telling you were it is from I sit. If we joined a union, the dues would have to thousands a year and it would never be enough to fight like the NAR or NAMB and what have those groups done

clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 9:56am)

You guys, this isn't an argument about USPAP and any interpretation of its guidelines. This is about getting control back in your profession. I can't fight the broker battle, because who cares about brokers? The public doesn't see that by elimnating brokers, rates and fees will skyrocket. They already are going up, as market share from the brokers dwindles. But there is a lot at stake here for Joe American. I will help fight for the appraisers and against the banks. If nothing else, create a statewide AMC. Have a $100 admin fee go to the AMC and the rest to the appraiser. Something good has to come of it.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 9:47am)

Thanks for the thoughts cluelessdad but you can't stop these jerks from working for free on the chance they can get a whole $55 for a desktop appraisal. Like our CA appraiser, they can pump out 40 a day. They'd all be worthless but there is not enough enforcement to stop them from this fraud. Joe, I think it's getting wider everyday. Everyday that we hear fees dropping and AVM's as the gold standard in appraisals. It's a total scam being run by the banksters to get rid of us under false pretenses and keep all the profits. As long as taxpayer money is used to buy the GSE MBS's the scam will continue to it's eventual conclusion - the end of our profession. There's $4 trillion sitting with the Treasury to keep buying from the GSE's to make sure that happens. I wish I were a lawyer, I'd fight this for free. Our money is being used to put us out of business. Change no one can believe. Keeping Geithner, Summers and Bernacke?!! The guys behind the bubble and bust?! Truly dissapointed

real appraiser: (February 10, 2010 9:46am)

Clulessdad: Its have a great idea, in theory. But appraisers cannot get along. You whould sit through a CE course, elevnty kabillion opinions on each issue thanks to that grey USPAP. You see it here every day when someone says anything about the last appraisal ordered. I cringe when the statement starts with, " OK, listen to what this appraiser did..." The truth is some are idiots and others are just following the requirements. Some reports just look ugly because there isnt a comp within 12 months or 2 miles, or the subject is a 3000 sf house in a 1000 sf neighborhood. The truth is alot of appraisers jump in here and have an opinion in a market, city, area they have no clue about. The appraiser maybe justified or he may be the worst appraiser in history. We cant tell from here, thats why I say turn the report in if you really think its fraud, if your just upset about the value, try to figure if the appraisal is good or bad, errors alone are not enough, it may just be sloppy, Cont

clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 9:45am)

The mantra of the group would be very simple. The banks have stolen from the world, for the last two years from the US taxpayer and now the US homeowner. The Banks want to steal your equity. Banks want to get rid of appraisers and let computers value your house. Got a panoramic view? The computer doesn't know that. Just done a remodel? The computer doesn't know that. Computers cannot reflect your home's real value. The things that made you buy your house will only be valued by a computer from now on. All that money you just spent to upgrade your house? Forget it, it has no value! Human appraisers are needed and will always be needed. And they need to be paid a decent wage to provide an in depth logical opinion of value. ..............You guys have fired me up today!

clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 9:38am)

Forgot to mention that 100 people call 100 appraisers, you could organize in a month with 3-5 calls a day. Not that much. I think this can be organized.

Clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 9:34am)

OK-I have an idea to unite the appraisers. Pick a highly respected appraiser in every state. Recruit 100 brokers, appraisers, or realtors and have them call every appraiser in the state. Here in CA, there are 10,000 appraisers, all listed on the web with phone numbers. Let's call every one of them and get their email addresses and permission to email them. Then you have your respected leader and some appraiers draft some unifying action (a work stoppage, etc) to stop the transactions. Hit the banks where it hurts. One of two things can happen. Banks will use AVM's 100% of the time or appraisers get their business back. But the way it is going now, appraisers are gonna be out. So there is nothing to lose. I will help call.

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 9:32am)

cluless-unfortunately the ap88rs that take the $55 make the market fee a typical fee for that area which will bolster their argument that the fees payable are too high as now they have stats that indicate a lower figure.Its a viscious circle and its getting smaller every day.

real appraiser: (February 10, 2010 9:32am)

Clueles; USPAP in prior years were guidelines, the verbage changed about 6 years ago from guidelines to requirements. They are the minimum standard to be followed by all appraisers, If violated, you can be fined and lic supended or revoked. Since appraisals are used in federal transactions, the USPAP will be used in court to put you in jail, it helps to prove fraud. The biggest issue is that USPAP is mostly grey. The biggest rule is not to deceive the reader of the report, someone at the state board determines fraud or incompetence, both addressed by USPAP. No one else, other than an appraiser can violate USPAP. You can ask me to do something violating USPAP, I must not accept. Nothing happens to you. That is why most honest appraisers hate to hear " I will just find an appraiser who will do it", happens all the time.

Clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 9:25am)

This Wells $55 fee should be a huge message to all those appraisers doing the job for $150. There still seems to be more appraisers than appraisals, as they are dictating even lower fees. So let me get this straight-you hit the value or you don't get paid? This is so sad it is funny.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 9:25am)

Holy crap - can you believe this??! "The compensation of $55 takes into consideration that you will from time to time have a “No-Hit” . So if there were no hits the fee would be less! $25? OMG!! How many suckers disguised as appraisers are buying into this??!! This profession is dead until the scum doing this work and killing us all professionally are gone. I never suspected that so many appraisers were such absolute idiots. The patients are running the sanitorium.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 9:15am)

So, work for free or hit the value they need. Didn't this happen before? Ohh yeah, the meltdown of 2008. Can someone tell me that banks weren't the whole problem? Huh? No one?

5pence: (February 10, 2010 9:10am)

If you get "the hit" on value you can finish it up and get their low fee. It's a full appraisal in my opinion for $55. They're offering it at $45 in some states. It's a race to the bottom and the winner loses

5pence: (February 10, 2010 9:08am)

$55-how generous: RVS Desktop Appraisal Report Minimum Requirements: 1 Local Multiple Listing Service as the primary data source. 2 A minimum of 3 closed comp sales and a comp listing and/or pending sale. (Note: In some cases, appraiser may need to provide more than 3 comps to support the value conclusion & meet the report requirements.) 3. At least 2 comp sales that are less than 120 days old (contract date). 4 At least 3 comp sales located within one mile of the subject. 5 At least 3 comp sales that have GLA within 20% of the subject. 6 Location Map 7 Condos with more than 15 units must include at least 3 comp sales from the development within the last 12 months and at least 1 comp listing and/or pending sale from the development. 8 Condos with 15 units or less must include at least 1 comp sale from development within 12 months &, when available, a comp listing and/or pend sale from the development. 9 All reports returned to appraiser for correction must be resubmitted within 24 hr

5pence: (February 10, 2010 8:55am)

RVS and WSS are not responsible for any additional charges that you incur completing these assignments. 5. The Service Level Agreement (or turnaround time) is two (2) days. 6. All of these reports will be reviewed by the RVS Quality Control Department and reports returned to you for correction must be resubmitted within 24 hours. "Opinion of Market Value $ Page 1 COMMENTS (Including reconciliation of sales comparison data and comments on listing and transfer history(s).) No hit means you don't get paid. Brokers were the problem??!!! Nucking futs. They come up their own forms now that have the appraiser violate USPAP. They are worse than any broker ever was. Pressure is rising Cuomo the skunk

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 8:53am)

5pence-dammit, appraisal port charges me $10 per completed and received appraisal!

5pence: (February 10, 2010 8:50am)

Wells/Wachovia email for doing Desktops: 1. The fee (compensation) paid for completing this product is $55. 2. There is an AppraisalPort charge to you of $4 for each assignment completed and returned with a value. 3. There will be no fee paid for a “No-Hit”, and no charge to you for returning a “No-Hit” through AppraisalPort. (Note: This product has a “No-Hit” component which means that either it is an ineligible property type or you were unable to develop a credible value. The compensation of $55 takes into consideration that you will from time to time have a “No-Hit”. For more on “No-Hits”, see the report instructions on page 6.) 4. There will be no additional charges to you for using Data Express provided that you are only accessing the RVS Desktop Form and Location Map features. Using any other features (plat map, comps search, etc.) will result in additional charges (refer to published pricing plan in Data Express). RVS and WSS are not responsible -continued

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 8:47am)

SoCal-I did the same with WaMU and thankfully didnt get any more work from them, actually the processor told me on the line that "I would never work with WaMu again ever".I just said that if that is the standard you adhere to then I'd appreciate it if you kept your word.Thats one burned bridge I didnt and havent worried about.

south florida appraiser: (February 10, 2010 8:44am)

5pence just brought up an issued on the Wells CMA. What happens if the value isn't there? You get nothing? lol That is definately a violation as the fee is depending on a predermined value. At least from what your saying there. I am on Wells list, however they don't send me work because I pointed out some fraud to them back in 2006. Never got another order.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 8:41am)

cluelessdad: In those states where USPAP is law anyone acting as an appraiser can be punished. In states that haven't adopted it as law, it's a state board matter. States that have it as law can go after BPO's - realtors acting as appraisers. In states where it's not law anyone but appraisers can violate it.

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 8:41am)

Cluless-yep that about sums it up, but they are standards promulgated by the appraisal board and appraisers are mandated to adhere to those standards otherwise feel the unleashed wrath and full weight of the State authorities.bwaaaah

5pence: (February 10, 2010 8:37am)

Wells comp check - it's accepting a job based on a pre-determined value and that is a USPAP violation. There are other portions of USPAP it's a violation of, I've heard, but I'm no USPAP expert. I've been telling you guys that work for AMC that as long as you do our time as professionals is limited. I've been saying less than 2 years and it could be less than a year. Do you want to keep working for AMC's and guarantee you don't have a career tomorrow or not work for them now and guarantee we have a career. Short term suffering for long term benefits. It appears suffering in any degree is too much for some appraisers, even if it benefits them. What do we do? We get loud

Clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 8:36am)

5pence- So if I get this right, the only people that need to worry about USPAP, or violating its rules, are licensed appraisers? Logically, everyone else can do what they want and use whatever valuation method they choose?

south florida appraiser: (February 10, 2010 8:35am)

USPAP is a guideline set up for Appraisers to follow. If an appraiser does not follow those guidelines, they can find themselves in a peck of trouble. Is it a law? Not really, however in Florida, you have to follow USPAP or possibly face diciplinary action. Any deviations from USPAP must be fully explained in the report.

5pence: (February 10, 2010 8:31am)

USPAP - It's appraisers law and they can be punished for violating it. It's been adopted as actual law by some of the states and prosecutable in a court of law. Not a bad idea.

mike in slc: (February 10, 2010 8:30am)

I have a client whose loan was through Indymac now One west. She put $60,000 down when she purchased this home and has since lost much of her income. She qualified for a loan mod and made 6 months worth of trial payments to see and just last week was told that they were going to foreclose. Now I know why!

5pence: (February 10, 2010 8:28am)

I've heard about those Wells "comp check" forms. If the value is there you get the 1/2 price appraisal minus the fees for the comp check of course. That is a USPAP violation & if you do them expect to get a call from your state board. I won't hesitate to turn in anyone I know doing those. Bubble Ben today-not much said on the news. He thinks he's going to be able to sell the $1.25 trillion in MBS's the GSE's have purchased. Hahahaaaaaaa. No one in the world wants them. China said today they won't buy them and Germany said they won't buy them. They're the thing that's toxic, these "exotic" instruments. They should get rid of them but the banks lobbyists know the taxpayer will have to keep buying them so they lobbied to keep MBS's around. So, we're buying crap nobody in the world wants. This is the government watching out for the people?! Any smart investor knows the HVCC has led to crap valuations and staying away from them is smart. Too bad we're not smart enough to stay away from them

south florida appraiser: (February 10, 2010 8:28am)

No don't have a link. This came in on a news email from Appraisal World.

Clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 8:27am)

I have a question for all the appraisers. Is USPAP a law or is a set of guidelines to follow for appraisers?

Clulessdad: (February 10, 2010 8:22am)

south florida appraisr-Do you have a link to the Fed and AVM's and BPO's?

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 8:21am)

south florida-I was at a talk and was informed by the lecturer that cma's may come under the auspices of USPAP if they have asked you in your capacity knowing you as an appraiser.The issue to be concerned about at that pont is whether you are also acting as an advocate,(if so)which may also contravene USPAP so they can get you coming and going.

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 8:15am)

SoCal-no that is just underhanded and mean.If the ap88r was dissatisfied with the fee after visiting the property then,s/he should have contacted the amc and renegotiated the fee,but to contend its a drywall issue,smacks of insufficient knowledge or of trying to take financial advantage of a situation.shame on him/her no wonder people think less of ap88rs if there are people out there that will do this type of thing.THATS the type of ap88r that SHOULD be reported,hopefully the Realtor will do just that.

south florida appraiser: (February 10, 2010 8:14am)

I got the message old dog is referring to. Your right, they are calling a cma an appraisal. I am not so sure it is uspap compliant. Also heard the Federal Reserve is considering eliminating appraisals completely and replacing them with AVM's and BPO's. That means the Realtors can replace us.

south florida appraiser: (February 10, 2010 8:14am)

I got the message old dog is referring to. Your right, they are calling a cma an appraisal. I am not so sure it is uspap compliant. Also heard the Federal Reserve is considering eliminating appraisals completely and replacing them with AVM's and BPO's. That means the Realtors can replace us.

RC45: (February 10, 2010 8:12am)

The AMC has been around since before the HVCC. It will be around if the HVCC goes away. The foremost problem is the AMC making money off our fee. UNTIL the appraisers unite together and say no more and quit taking the morsels that the AMC's throw our way it will not get any better. I do not accept anything but my full fee, and from the grace of GOD I get it. I understand that they will go somewhere else to try and find a "cheap" appraisal. In some cases they will find an appraiser that will fill out a form and send it in. In about half the cases they come back and pay my fee. due to the appraisers that accept these half fees are putting out crap and being put on a black list. THey don't realize it and are not going to put in the time to actually analize the market and appraise the property for that fee. Have faith in GOD, Stand for your morals and integrity as a professional appraiser and we will get through this. As Dr. Charles Stanley say's "Fight the battle on your knees". It works

BrokeBroker: (February 10, 2010 8:12am)

I read through most of yesterday's blog and THEY are winning. Yes, fraud and greed were part of the equation but the #1 reason for this mess is WALL STREET generated a market for MBS that had underrated risk creating a demand on the street for product that made them uncountable billions in sales that were then insured by unregulated CDOs. NO amount of fraud and deceipt could have caused as much worldwide financial damage. Realtors, appraisers and mortgage brokers respond to the market, their individual transactions are not the market, only the sum total of the transactions become the market. In 2004, when an investor wanted to buy a home with no down and a SISA option arm, the product was available because Wall Street could sell it, make money, then insure their risk. This is not the fault of the realtor who sold the house, the appraiser who gave it value or the broker who did the loan.

SoCalLoanGal: (February 10, 2010 7:58am)

I think I have the best HVCC story so far. Appraisal done on purchase of REO. In the pix and narrative the appraiser talks about a hole in the drywall in the master bedroom that needs to be fixed and the probable cost to cure of under $500.00 with what appeared to be a piece of drywall next to the hole in the picture. Selling agent went to the property a simply replaced the cover (supposed drywall) to the plumbing access and for this the lender required a 442. Either this appraiser is the smartest ever and has figured out a way to charge the borrower for more work so she can make up what the AMC is taking away or dumb as a stone, can't figure out the difference between a drywall repair and replacing the cover for the plumbing access.

Spam Police: (February 10, 2010 7:54am)

LOL @pacos tacos... way to hijack these guys hard work. Go get your own traffic.

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 7:34am)

Old dog-I agree with you 100%,I dont sell myself short for anyone.I know someone will and thats why they dont learn,but eventually evenn the cheapos will get tired of the low fees, but by then it'll be too late.

Old Dog: (February 10, 2010 7:23am)

to joecolorado, well it wasn't a request just a general email saying "this is what's coming up for you pitiful appraisers"... a little love note from Wells. No I wouldn't even consider...would rather be a greeter at Walmart than to take their pennies. I have held firm to my fees and am still surviving. However my fees have remained the same since 1995 and AMCs/big banks want most of that. I'm not giving it to them.

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 7:16am)

old dog-I am sure that you wouldnt, but just don't denigrate yourself by contemplating such an insulting offer.Why do they even bother with a request like that?

Old Dog: (February 10, 2010 6:57am)

Wells Fargo through their acquired Wachovia is now "honoring" their appraisers with their new Desktop Appraisal delivered through Appraisal Port and offering a whopping $51.00 after you pay AP. Looks like a "comp check" to me. Geez the fun never stops.

NO SHOW for 02-10-10 - Sorry!: (February 10, 2010 6:52am)

Yeah pacos tacos... not interested. Thanks! Frank

Pacos Tacos: (February 10, 2010 6:46am)

Hey Frank, Have you guys seen this program? Are you offering it to your clients? http://bit.ly/9ancLf If you have questions about it, call me 916-599-5678

joecolorado: (February 10, 2010 6:46am)

5pence-nice Dylan Thomas reference.now if you had just one more penny youd be a tanner.

NO SHOW for 02-10-10: (February 10, 2010 6:40am)

Sorry guys! We had some bad data on our end and had to pull today's show! We'll see you tomorrow.

Reina: (February 10, 2010 6:12am)

Brian, LOVE your smooth dance moves!! ;-)

Frank Garay: (February 10, 2010 5:58am)

We had to pull today's show for February 10. We may have had some inaccurate data. We may post it again later today, otherwise you will see us tomorrow! Thanks for your understanding. TBWS

Deedie: (February 10, 2010 5:56am)

Pipe How do you have so much time to write endless posts. Last I checked 7-11 is still hiring. (4) Sure you don't want to add another?

pipe: (February 09, 2010 9:06pm)

The posts on this site are sickening. Any reasonable person would say, if you can't make it in your profession get out. Please get out, there is no magic bullet and the HVCC is here to stay. How do you have so much time to write endless posts. Last I checked 7-11 is still hiring.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 6:55pm)

SoCalApprs2: I don't know how I'm getting by. I'm going Ch 7 & don't have all those credit card bills every month, & for some reason (grace from above) I'm getting enough private work to keep me from selling my home. I'm able to maintain (not thrive) at appraising for now. I am expecting to go to the employment office sometime soon as I will not work for AMC's. I will not lift a finger to support them or their employees as I feel they are worthless leeches & need to be exterminated. I love this profession too much & won't contribute to it's demise. Unless there's action this profession will be killed off by the AMC's, so if this apathy keeps up, prepare for that. I know my words are no consolation but they are the facts as I see them. At 57 I'm too old to go back to college & start a new career. My brother's in construction & I've been helping out. The pay is good. Without action & rage against the dying of the light, the appraisal profession will go quietly into that good night. GLTY!

Alabama Country Boy: (February 09, 2010 4:55pm)

I am proud of my Senators and Congressmen from Alabama and what they have tried to do and I let them know it. Maybe your Senator or Congressman needs some feathers stroked rather than ruffled. It is easy to take time to rant and harder to take time to say "Thanks!" I wonder what the ratio of thank you letters are to those that are griping about something. Check your senator or congressman's voting record and mail them a High Five for supporting our country and doing the right thing. Then you can mention some additional help factors/concerns that you would like for them to work on or pay attention to for you or your industry. Then thank them again. Ask how you can help them. That is something that they seldom hear. Do it tonight before you go to bed. Face it. Griping is not getting the job done.

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 4:24pm)

realtor 21 I was not speaking of your spelling, only my own from the prior post. I and others have already explained appreciation in sales, I know you think that certain things should have value, but they dont always. Why dont more people add water parks to their back yard pool, steam showers, home theaters are going away in some places,starting in others, people now want smaller homes, not bigger(except texas). I am more aware of FACTS than you are. Things change, almost everyanswer in appraising is answered by "maybe" and tomorrow it will be "maybe" but for a different reason. I know you think that the economics and methodology of appraising should be done like jewelery is appraised, but it isnt. I have learned that most buyers are pissed when they find the appraised value is lower than contract,(i lost my dream home caus eof you) but I am a king when 2 days later they renegotiate the fair price. I have actually appraised a similar amount over contract price too

Dweebster: (February 09, 2010 4:17pm)

I think you are being a bit harsh on the MBA. 1st off, we don't have all the facts. Selling short is a lot different than a foreclosure. If their bank wanted to hold their feet to the fire, they could have played their card. 2nd, Commercial loans are often balloons, quite likely their lender didn't want to face the unknown reality in a few years and decided to take their lumps now. This is very different and much less desirable than "giggle mail" and a "not my problem anymore" attitude.

SoCalApprs2: (February 09, 2010 4:17pm)

To all appraisers here. I am a fellow appraiser who is dying out here with no, and I mean no work. Going after attorneys, mediators and bankruptcy attorneys is generating little results for me. Perhaps I am approaching it wrong? May I suggest we spend the next few days sharing what is working for those who are getting business? (such as an AMC that pays full pop!) We are pretty good at hammering at each other on this blog, and I feel the anger we all share. Lets turn the page now and share we each other how to keep working in this market. I have taken on a part time job that is to start at the end of the month, but I am in need of some serious work right now. I make no excuses, but I am in need of some financial freedom via appraisal work.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 4:12pm)

Ok, I'm starting to think you're 21. Didn't you hear that you should stay in school and that there's a reason why they call it dope? Grow up and maybe I'll talk to you some more. As of now you bore me. I've explained away your claim of what the buyer wants to pay for a property is it's market value. You really shouldn't criticize things and people you don't understand - and that seems to be a lot lol. Goodbye joker, I have work to do. I can only inflate this vacant lot by $50k right now and I need $100k (arsehole) hahahaaaa

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 4:07pm)

Clulessdad: I know you did not say we suck, having to count words to respond adequately cuts me short. The best solution is to let appraisers get orders from their clients, let other appraisers review and underwriters do their job. SEND ALL BAD APPRAISALS TO STATE, revoke bad appraisers lic and let everyone do their jobs. I have sent in a handful of bad appraisals to the state,and worked with the DBPR in Florida testifying against bad appraisers and I mean flat out fraud, not errors in reports. The system is there already, freddie/fannie, every bank, lender got bonuses on quantity of loans, quality was not an issue. see bonuses paid to ceo's of freddie and fannie even when they were fired. The system was corrupt from the top down, not so much from the bottom up, which is all of us here pointing blame at each other. I can speak for myself when I say I did not produce a fraudulent report in either state in 15 years of work. so I do not like being lumped in with(bad)appraisers

5pence: (February 09, 2010 4:05pm)

Clulessdad : I think you asked how could values ever go up? Appraisers can allow a 3% seller concessions as typical for the market. In otherwords, typical for the market means a 3% per year appreciation rate. That's why seller concessions of 6% and more caused inflated values. Think about property flippers. Every new sale is 6% higher. 3 times in a year and you got a real skewing of values. Holding it to 3% makes sense as someone without a downpayment can still get a loan from their parents to cover that 3% and get a house they can afford. It's humane.

realtor 21: (February 09, 2010 4:00pm)

Very classy about spelling, I am multi tasking excuse my rush. I did not generalize about all appraisers just the ones like 5pence who think he is a god a he alone sets the price and that just is not how the world works. The fact that there are situations where 2 appraisers come up with vastly different prices for the same home, there adjustments for the same items varied by large amounts and that has been my complaint inconsistency and the godlike attitudes of the bad appraisers. You all decide who I am speaking to you know who you are. 5pence knows. Just in case you appraiser do not know this if no home sells over the comparable we would never have appreciation. So a totally updated home will GET MORE than a home that needs tons of work, hopefully you were aware of that FACT.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 3:56pm)

Let me repeat that so you guys can understand: If the bank has to sell the property they don't want to search out your unique buyer that paid more than market value for the property because they like the angles, they want the value that appeals most to the market at large so they can sell it with a minimum of hassle if they have to! Get it? If it's your money, pay as much as you want for it, If it's not your money the lenders concerns on selling it if they have to foreclose is the priority. And market value in that sense is what the banks are loaning on - their ability to sell it later at the least amount of cost to them and at a price that appeals to the whole market not 1 or 5 particular buyers that want to over-bid.

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 3:52pm)

realter 21: sometimes a new kitchen, new bath, new furnace have no value if this is an old neighborhood where an updated house sells for the same as dated home. Sometimes it has greater value (ex:near water/city). Each market is different and then that same market is different every 3 months. Some markets dont change for years. Yes there are bad appraisers, I have always said this, but there are bad (insert any profession here) everywhere. Turn in bad appraisal report to state. I do not want to compete with some guy making up values and do not want to be associated with those that produce pure crap. Everyone is argueing with you cause you generalized and blamed us all. You poked alot of people instaed of poking the one idiot alone. I do feel bad if all of Detroit is nothing but bad appraisers, cause if that true, every realtor there is also bad. You can not have one without the other. So lets agree to say a large group of real estate profesionals f^%*ed up your market Notjust appraiser

5pence: (February 09, 2010 3:49pm)

You're not getting it & realtor tend to misunderstand market value. If they want to offer more than market value they'd better have the $$ to make up the difference. Cash-equivalent is also market value. Market value is many things. You're trying to prove market value by the buyers intent only. No way-that's myopic. That's not seeing the whole picture. Buyers are but a part of the equation, necessary but just a part. Builders think they should be selling homes for more than what it costs to build them is a complaint heard recently. If they're building homes in an over-built area they will not get their costs out of the sale! Supply & demand for the "market". When the bank go to sell the property they don't want to search out your buyer that paid more than market value for the property because they like the angles, they want the value that appeals most to the market at large so they can sell it with a minimum of hassle if they have to! Get it? If it's your $ buy it-not your $? Market V

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 3:42pm)

real appraiser-I never said that appraisers suck. I have respect for your profession. I am only trying to learn the why's of situations and apply them to future deals. I don't make the rules, I just want to understand them. I really want to know if the supply/demand theory really applies to house prices/values and their corresponding opinions of value. You see lost in this whole HVCC debacle is that no one is trying to figure out the best process to determine the best way to estimate house values. Everyone wants it gone, but what will take its place? It is a complex answer and you can see that there are many facets to think about.

ILL Appraiser: (February 09, 2010 3:41pm)

Does anyone question the expertise of a real estate agent that spells realtor, realter? To all those questioning market value, implicit in the definition of market value as stated in the appraisal report is that both parties, buyer and seller, are well informed or well advised. Now I don't know about the rest of you guys but with many of the homeowners for re-fi's and sellers I have talked with, most were not well informed or well advised. They merely took whatever info was provided by their realtor as the truth only to find out later it wasn't. How many of you guys still ask for realtors to provide comps or CMA's? Do you look at them? If a realtor voluntarily gives me info a red flag always, and I do mean always, goes up and I know that something isn't right. This is from 24 years experience. I know they do the same thing for buyers and sellers. "Sellers, how much do you need to list with me?" "Buyers, that house next door that just closed is not nearly as nice as this one..

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 3:40pm)

realter 21 I personally do not have an issue with your opinion, the problem I have is that you generalize and then try to make a point being specific and then you say we do not know your market. As an appraiser, the only thing I know is that your market is a train wreck, correction still in process of a real slow train wreck. The point is every appraiser here would tell you to turn in the bad appraiser to the state. But let me ask you this. If each appraisal was completed with different scope of work, you can get two (vastly) different values. The first oder was a standard appraisal, came in at 100K, the lender didnt like something(COMPs too old, bigger, farther,newer, etc). They order a second appraisal with conditions the first did not have (comps within 90 days, gla within 20%, 15 years of age, in subdivision, etc) you will get TWO different values, Both correct. I do not think this would result in 40K differences. But you did not know what they ordered, right. May not be any fault.

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 3:31pm)

Analogy of house prices and gold. More gold buyers than sellers, price goes up. More sellers, price goes down. My opinion of value is today's price. Or do you use last week's price or the month's before? I am oversimplifying it, and I am not an appraiser, but what makes the two different?

realter 21 : (February 09, 2010 3:31pm)

real appraiser, I state facts had one appraiser says no extra value for new kitchen, baaths, furnace, roof because all homes have it. Just admit like any industry there are bad apples, I don't protect bad Realtors I go after their license, maybe appraisers should not protect there own. I have seen them!!!

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 3:29pm)

sorry about the spelling on the last one

realter 21: (February 09, 2010 3:28pm)

Sorry but appraisers are wrong at times but, I never said that, it is the inconsistency I object to and to appraisers like 5pence that say a buyer has know place in determining value. Which I still can't believe he would say that. And after 21 years I do understand the appraisal industry and see how inconsistant it is. Come to Michigan and I will show you the abuse in the appraisal industry and how it caused to a large percent the housing crisis. They are now compounding the problem by under apprasing to protect themselves legally because from 1999-2006 they over appraised mainly refis, caused the huge amount of foreclosures and are now hindering any kind oof recovery. I am sorry to all good appraiser that image has been tarnished by the rogue ones. It is a fact and I can prove it, they are just not hollow words. I understand the industry and am affiliated with one of the largest Michigan firms with over 400 agents that share my opinion. Appreciation occuring as ask appraiser LOL

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 3:27pm)

Clulessdad: I know you get this, I have said it before. The prices increase based on one way. those who pay cash or pay over the appraised price will set new market. Smaller homes will apraise higher based on (somehat)larger homes selling for higher, this is hard to explain in too few words. Prices increase as we have seen when the bubble was inflating, not every appraisal was killing each deal, Though 21 thinks we are to blame now and before, pick a way to hate us and stick with it. The appraiser is bad if he values too high according to 21 abd we suck if we value too low according to clueles, welcome to appraising 101, MOST PROBABLE PRICE

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 3:18pm)

WRONG What a ready willing and able buyer is willing to pay for the home is "market value". No, this is price, what a group of people willing to pay for something similar or equal is value. 3 people bidding on loaf of bread will increase its price. Several buyers buying several loaves of bread will determine value. Is that easier to understand. That is why IF a particular property will have multiple bids, The winner is he who comes up with the money, any time in the future that property may only have one interested buyer, reducing its value, Get it? BIDDING ALWAYS INCREASES PRICE if in demand, if little demand then the opposite, anybody watch ebay at all

Ezradams: (February 09, 2010 3:10pm)

Realtor 21: In some markets (usually increasing value) there may be competing bids. If that's the case, I always require a letter from the broker on their letterhead regarding the bids. This letter is scanned into the appraisal report. Sometimes the property was listed too low....check days on market to see exposure. And yes, it takes buyers and sellers to make the market. It takes MANY buyers and sellers not just one! A single buyer who decides to pay a price above market value is paying "investment value" Def: "Investment value is value to an individual, not value in the market place" This a definition from "The Appraisal of Real Estate", Appraisal Institute. It's clear you don't understand the practice of appraising. That's ok, just don't tell us we're wrong.

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 3:10pm)

realtor- this is a real deal that I participated. I was the broker for the $315K offer. The conventional HVCC appraisal came in at $280K, allowing for the slightly higher amenities. I guees you can look at supply/demand in two lights. This sale or previous sales. Nowadays they are picking previous sales. Not the price what this buyer/seller agreed. It is the bank's money, they can lend on it any way they want. However how do home prices EVER appreciate again? (Note: Seller brought price down to $280K)

realter 21: (February 09, 2010 3:09pm)

AMEN GODLIKE ANOTHER THINKING HUMAN. I FEEL MORE HOPEFUL FOR THE HUMAN RACE. THANK YOU

GODLIKE: (February 09, 2010 3:07pm)

Continued: So methinks it's just some appraisers don't like having their opinions questioned. Those self same ones that are so sure they have the might of a vengeful Lord on their side and refuse to even look at or listen to anyone are the same ones that down the line when people are forced to pay for another appraiser are the ones that are usually proven wrong BIG TIME! So we might need to redefine some terms here. Shopping by people on the other side of the fence is just looking for a good appraiser that will do their job and that's not always easy to do. That's why we like to build relationships with good appraisers and that's also why most of you should hate HVCC, that is unless you're one of those appraisers that isn't doing such a good job

GODLIKE: (February 09, 2010 3:03pm)

SHOPPING FOR VALUE? I see that used as a dirty word by appraisers, but let's jump to the other side of the fence for a moment. As an owner/buyer/lender/realtor if an appraisal comes in below sales price the first thing that you do is look at information the Appraiser used and compare it to the info we have. Then there's a follow up phone call to the appraiser. If he/she talks to us and supports their data intelligently then everyone calms down and just accepts it. The only time there's any "shopping" is when you get an appraiser who has obviously made a misteak and won't even consider anything anyone else has to say or show him. No one gets an appraisal before the fact and then takes the highest one (which is the basis for Cuomo's HVCC necessity) nor do they just keep ordering and paying for appraisals until they find one at the proper value. Neither Buyers nor Sellers have the funds for that and the lenders don't have the time. To continued

realtor 21: (February 09, 2010 2:57pm)

Clulessdad you are far from clueless. You have hit the nail on the head. Market value, opinion of price no matter what you call it is exactlly what cluelessdad says what a buyer and seller agree upon, VERY WELL SAID.

realter 21: (February 09, 2010 2:53pm)

5pence your arrogance that ONLY you knows market value is my whole issue. What if a house gets 5 offers the sellers take the lowest offer because the terms where better. Does that invalidate all the other buyers opinions of value?

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 2:52pm)

Realtor & 5 pence- situation that happened to me. Cookie cutter home tract in Corona. Listing price $310. Three offers on the property, one at $310, 2nd at $310, and 3rd at $315K. Comps in the neighborhood, with some lower amenities and +/- 50 sq ft sold at $270-280K. Sq ft approx the same, age is the same, same bed/bath count, no econ or func obsolescence. So if the value is what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree, what is the opinion of value? Is it what these two have agreed or is it what the other sales have agreed? Or somewhere in between?

realtor 21: (February 09, 2010 2:49pm)

5pence, I am sure you are trying to make some point, what it is who knows. But simple put you cannot have a market without a buyer. Therefore your statement buyers do not determine market values is completely untrue. A market is made up of buyers and sellers no matter the product. If a buyer has no effect on the market what does. You state market value is what most PROBABLE price it will sell for, isn't that dertermined by a meeting of the minds of a seller and a buyer? Therefore the buyer has a 50% influence in market value. Why that does not make sense to you is amazing. As an appraiser the only information you have to use are comparables and guess what those comparables are comparables because they were purchased by buyers so how can a buyer's perception of value not be a determining factor in market value? Is the light starting too get through to you? What a ready willing and able buyer is willing to pay for the home is "market value".

5pence: (February 09, 2010 2:48pm)

Follow-up. Yes, I did protect the seller and informed them of the value. I've also killed more than a few deals where the sales price/construction loan was too high, to protect the bank and the buyer. I certainly didn't receive any thanks or a lot more work, but it's the right thing to do. Right BT, If someone wants to pay more than the market value of the property they can do it with their own money. If they're going to use someone elses money the lender of those funds does not want to be taken for a loss if they walk. It happens.

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 2:45pm)

andi-wells wholesale still offers 2nd's

5pence: (February 09, 2010 2:35pm)

Wrong. Buyers are not the market. Using your example what if there were nothing to sell in a particular subdivision? Does that mean it's worth nothing? The subdivision has market value without a buyer. You are looking at a too narrow interpretation because it fits your bias. Think whole market not any particular sale. Market value is market wide. Read this & try to understand: Market value is the most probable price a particular property should sell for in a competitive & open market. Key words here are open & competitive market. Not any particular sale. Get it finally? So, you are angry for your friend hahahaa. Tell your "friend" to get another appraisal so the truth comes out instead of bitchin & moaning. Why are such simple solutions so hard for some people to grasp?! 3rd appraisal settles it & then you know who the bad guy in the deal is. I'll laugh if it's the $100k appraiser. Did a private sale where buyer was going to pay $150k, $100k less than it's worth. Did I protect seller?

loaner55: (February 09, 2010 2:26pm)

Frank and Brian, Another great day of news from TBWS. You guys ROCK !!!!!!

MIMortgageDude: (February 09, 2010 2:22pm)

Andi, try US Bank

BT: (February 09, 2010 2:18pm)

I would respectfully submit that the property for sale is worth, to the buyer, what the buyer is willing to pay for it with the buyers OWN money. If you're using someone else's money for the purchase, surely you would expect the financier to have some opinion and input(typically an opinion purchased from, say a trained and qualified property appraiser?) as to the value of the property.

Ezradams: (February 09, 2010 2:12pm)

Realtor 21: Buyers and sellers decide on a sales price. Appraisers form an opinion of value....two different things. There are many reasons a PARTICULAR buyer may decide to pay more for a property than the TYPICAL buyer would pay. The appraiser needs to protect the lender's position. The appraiser is concerned with what the property would sell for if it was exposed to the market without THAT particular buyer's involvement. I'm just trying to educate you on the difference. Most often the sales price and opinion of value are similar. It's the unusual situations the appraiser must be aware of. (Look up "investment value")

Andi : (February 09, 2010 2:10pm)

Does anyone know which wholesale bank is still doing 2nd's

realtor 21 : (February 09, 2010 2:08pm)

5pence you say buyer has nothing to do with market value, let's say there are no buyers for anyhting. Then everything is worth nothing. Gold is expensive because it is rare and ther is BUYER demand for the product, that creates the market value. So making a statment buyers are not market value is a statment relfecting a lack of economic and business knowledge. And because you don't read all blogg statements, I had no interest in the deal I helped the realto who did get it closed. Reflect on your statement buyers are not market value. In reality they are the MARKET, think about it.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 1:54pm)

You dont even know what market value is. Buyers are people not market value. Things are market value. So what happened in your deal. The 2nd appraiser made you lose your fees? Awww, poor realtor21. Still steaming about it after all these years. Ever hear of a 3rd appraisal? Then if it came in close to $100k or $40k you'd know who to report to the appraisal board. See, simple. Tell you what, get a retrospective appraisal done for the dates of the sale-if there's an MLS that goes back that far. Would it be worth another $400 for your peace of mind? You could get revenge on the one that was wrong. That appraiser needs to be sanctioned as that is a huge discrepency so one of the 2 was grossly negligent/incompetent. Values were inflated a lot by seller concessions. Did you ever have a hand in those? Did you ever over-price a property in a neighborhood that was seeing escalating values? Did you ever work out "deals" with other realtors that weren't always above board? You're not a crook?

realtor 21 : (February 09, 2010 1:52pm)

poor joe, he stands corrected but feels the need to sling insults. MUst have some sort of issues. LOL, No chips on my shoulders, the transaction I was refering to was not even my deal, it was meant to prove a point which blew over both your heads. Enjoy you day.

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 1:48pm)

Realtor21 you are so correct I stand in awe of your presence.BUT Im out of here as I am sick and tired of reading poorly written,badly spelled rhetoric from a Realtor with a very large unsolvable chip on his/her shoulder.I suggest that you report the ap88r to the State.Bye

realtor 21 : (February 09, 2010 1:48pm)

sorry again joe, making a violation to a state governing body is not slander. slander has to be public with the intent to damage with false hoods. filing a complaint is not slander.

realtor 21 : (February 09, 2010 1:45pm)

joe & 5spence you continue to prove my point, prices are all over the place because appraisors have done that. As 5spence said appraiser (gods) determine values, I have about a thousand economist that woould gladly debate you on that issue. SO but you guys make very week case in the real world.

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 1:44pm)

I do know my terms,I have a joint degree with law as my minor.Slander is what I said as reporting the errant ap88r to the State has an inherent cause of effect to punish the offender if found negligent.If you do something on purpose that will cause harm(by reporting an ap88r to the State)you are liable if that harm is caused and you are the direct cause of that harm.

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 1:40pm)

21-the other problem is that you appear to have assumed that the ap88r is working for the buyer,they dont,we work for the guy with the money,the investor.We really shouldnt be involved with what the buyer,Realtor or broker considers their "value" to be,we are concerned whether the investors money is safe in a market, particularly in Michigan which we all know has hit the skids(I also saw Michael Moores films).I'm not surprised the 2nd ap88r came in low,do you know that the ap88r can be sued for the remainder of the value in a default?The Realtor doesn't have that problem.The ap88r has a lot to lose if he or she is deemed wrong,its no wonder the values are all over the place,we are scared out of our pants every time a job comes in the door whether we are going to get sued by someone due to our opinion of value.But we are the first in line,brokers next,so dont be surprised next year or so, Realtors will be going through the same process we are going through now.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 1:39pm)

You are mixing things up. In refi's there has to be market sales to justify the re-fi value. If the chief appraisers didnt tell the appraisers to make value or fall into disfavor and instead wanted honest valuations, then inflated values wouldn't have occurred to the extent you relay. Thank your chief and his indians, which was probably the prevailing mentality at the banks at that time. In your first post you had a solution. Was it let buyers pay whatever they want?! lolol

realtor 21 : (February 09, 2010 1:39pm)

5spence you just PROVED my point. "buyers have nothing to do with market value". That by far is the most insane statment I have ever heard. Buyers are the "market value"!!!! And joecolorado slander is refering to false staement with intent to harm, know your facts. You need not know all the pertinent facts to the transaction the point was proved by the large descrepancies in the appraisals, either you had 2 qualified appraisers come up with vastly different opinions proving one of my points it is not an exact science or their are bad apprasiers.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 1:29pm)

Wrong, buyers opinions have nothing to do with market value. Appraisers are the experts, they personally see the interior an exterior of 100's of homes a year and inspect and analyse thousands of others. No one in real estate has the market value experience qualified appraisers do. No one. I'm trying to pull away but it's like watching a train wreck lol

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 1:29pm)

21-you havent given us all the facts, Unfortunately,I think you are just angry and are lashing out at the people that can help you close a deal.Alienating ap88rs doesnt help your situation.Did you show the errant ap88r the error of his/her ways or did you just internalize and boil?How was the asking figure derived?are you the listing Realtor?who drew up the contract?where did you get your information to ascertain which ap88r is wrong?Which one is wrong in your opinion?How do you know that they are wrong? tell us.People that inform others that the buying figure is value, dont know the definition of value,cost or price.You as a Realtor should have educated the banker of his ignorance.Why is the bankers ap88r correct,where did he get his info?why didnt the valuing ap88r have the same info?give us more to work on here.BUT even so your State has a complaints process I suggest you use it,but be careful,as slander is actionable where loss is incurred.

realtor 21 : (February 09, 2010 1:22pm)

5spence, hou really miss the picture. You are making bold statements about a deal you are not involved with nor do you know many of the particular. This proves my point you have god like mentality that your opinion is the only correct opinion. And you are confusing 2 different situations, the point about the cheif apppraisor has nothing to do with the case noted. It was to show you how appraiser should factor in buyers opinion, they are the ones viewing ALL the on market properties(do you?) , they are the ones making the mortgage payment and they have made a determnination as to the value of the house. If appraisers opinions where FACTS then Michigan would not have had the housing crash it is experiencing because a large protion of the foreclosures where refis that should never have been appraised such inflated prices. Sales prices were much more in line with market price, it was lenders crazy loan programs that put them into forecloseure. You don't have a leg to stand on.

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 1:16pm)

5pence, additionally if the buyer wants to pay $100,00 and the ap88r estimates the value at $95,000 the deal still works,it just means that the buyer comes up with $5K at closing.satisfies the Buyer,the seller,the banker and the Realtor still gets his full commission.I find that putting your money where your mouth is generally shuts a lot of people up.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 1:09pm)

Ok realtor21: 1 more comment & then I really have to get back to work inflating this vacant lot by $100k (lol). So the chief appraiser said that whatever the buyer was willing to pay for the property is what it's worth. WRONG! and probably what led to so many bad valuations. Just because I'm willing to pay $10 for a $5 candy bar doesn't mean that the candy bar is now worth $10. It's still only worth $5. We are here to protect the client and the buyer from paying too much or even not enough. It sounds like your local banks chief appraiser wasn't really an appraiser at all but more a glorified numbers pumper & vastly contributed to over-valuation in your area. No doubt to increase loan flow through his bank. Congratulations-you backed the wrong horse. The buyers opinion of value & what they're willing to pay has nothing to do with it's market value. They want to overpay $25k on a house then let them do it without an appraiser. Your Chief was wrong in encouraging that practice. Very wrong

unionsjerkwads?: (February 09, 2010 1:02pm)

Cool QualityGirl, you had me worried for a while. It's not that I don't like unions. Really. It's that I F'ing hate them for ruining this once prosperous nation with the arrogant entitlement mentality. It is not a person's right ot own a home and 2 cars because they are employed by a large company. But our government sadly disagrees with this simple notion. Somebody shoot me.

realtor 21 : (February 09, 2010 12:55pm)

5pence, well I can tell by the insulating and smart ass comments you make insulting an honest experienced and well educated Realtor. I have an opinion that I can show the facts beyond any resonable doubt, you obviously have no clue as to the market place or what occured in Michigan. The reality of the situation is that the buyer's opinion of price as the most important. A local bank who a close friend was cheif appraiser tld his appraisers to look at sale price and justify if you can. They choose not think of appraisers as "gods" of pricing, which is what I assume you think yoou are. The entire appraisal industry needs new standards and less closed minded smart asses ad 5pence.

QualityGirl: (February 09, 2010 12:47pm)

Right On 5pense!! I'm with you all the way. But I gotta go, I actually have an appraisal to work on. Got to make my $350. I hope I'm in a good mood realtor21...Maybe McDonald's isn't soo bad after all. Of course someone will probably blame me for making the coffee too hot for 89 cents. I'm sure that will be all my fault too.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 12:41pm)

Hey realtor21, I have to get back to work. I have a lot to inflate by $100k. Happy? :^)

ILL Appraiser: (February 09, 2010 12:41pm)

realtor 21-The likely scenario is that the $40K appraisal was supported by distress sales and the $100K was with arms length market driven sales. Happens a lot these days. The AMC's tell their appraisers to use distress sales. Good appraisers, if there are other sales, do not use foreclosures, reo's, short sales, etc. to derive a market value.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 12:38pm)

Stingray - it's being perpetrated right in appraisers and brokers faces and we can't do a thing about this illegal policy. That's how bold the banks are. The general public is unaware of it so, it's going on right under their noses. That's why they need to be educated. I think free press because of an anti-Cuomo campaign would go a long way in educating the public about this criminal bankster cartel enterprise. Face it, the general public is oblivious to what's going on. They are our greatest weapon and need to be educated. Power to the people, but they need edumacating first so they can see the danger lurking in the shadows. They're getting a taste of it from the banks not modifying or re-fi'ing their loans but it doesn't really affect their lives yet so they're unaware. The public is our greatest ally and can affect change faster than any due process of law that always gets dragged out past the point of reason or even anger. It enduces apathy and coma lol

Stingray: (February 09, 2010 12:27pm)

AMC's have no skin in the game. Cheap and fast is fine for them. They aren't held liable, banks that own them don't care - just put the report in the file and if borrower defaults down the road, Fannie/Freddie can just go after Appraisers E&O. It's like the perfect crime being perpetrated right under our collective noses.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 12:22pm)

LOL - that would be great if you actually made a point lol. All I said was that if there were no sales at $100k I couldn't prove $100k. So the $40k appraiser was wrong. Is he right now? hahaa. Maybe the $40k appraiser was right all along and wouldn't go along with realtors pumping values. I'd have to see the reports to know. You guys there had some serious price inflation pre-bust. Are you trying to say realtors didn't have a hand in that? I still think you're mis-informed and nothing you've said has led me to believe otherwise. A realtor pleading innocence !! LOL! , too much hahaa. I'd have to say since you are so willing to blame everybody else but yourself, that shows where you are coming from. Realtors never recommend certain appraisers in your market? It happens whether you did it or not.

realtor 21 years: (February 09, 2010 12:05pm)

Let Me explain Spence, ist we have absolutely know control over who appraises a home. You state that you cannot appraise a home at $100k in obvious defense of the apraiser at $40,000, you are making an assumptions. Plenty of comps to justify the $100k, it was the $40k apprasier that did his job incorrectly. Maybe that is the problem with appraisers maing determination without KNOWING the facts I think you proved my point quite well. Thanks Spence

5pence: (February 09, 2010 11:59am)

To me it sounds like the banks had deals with appraisal mills where if they kept hitting the numbers for the banks they'd get all the work. Exactly what happened in the NY eappraiseit and WAMU fraud. You know, where Cuomo decided to reward the criminal by giving them the HVCC and all the mortgage business. Kind of like leaving a pedophile in charge of a child day care center.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 11:54am)

Sorry realtor21 but you're making no sense. If there were no sales at $100k I couldn't prove it's worth $100k. It sounds like the 1st appraiser was a number hitter for the banks & the 2nd one was experienced. How often did you use appraiser #1? That might be your problem. I don't understand appraisal fraud. Why risk your license & livelihood for $400? That is all the fraudulent appraiser gets. That's all any appraiser gets. There is no incentive to commit fraud for an appraiser unless they were promised steady work to be a number hitter. If that's the case look to the banks. They control the process and can manipulate the process any way they want including employing number hitters. I'm curious, how many banks in Michigan went under and how many fraud cases were prosecuted involving banks? Sounds like you have more than your fair share of crime up there. I've seen pictures of entire communities there abandoned-sad. Appraisers are not to blame. They can only work with actual sales

Reverseitlady: (February 09, 2010 11:53am)

I totally agree with the AMC comments regarding brokers suffering because of inferior and cheap and inexperienced appraisers being used instead of reliable, licensed, qualified, and certified appraisers that we have used over the many years of mortgage business. Why should a broker suffer the wrath of an angry client over an appraiser who obviously does not know what they are doing?

5pence: (February 09, 2010 11:40am)

It really makes absolutely no sense for the AMC's to hire by fast & cheap and ignore quality & experience. They are elevating the inexperienced, fast & cheap and burying the experienced and most qualified. There is some devious plot behind this and it's instigated and promoted by the too big to fails with Gov support. Some devious plot besides what we already know-The illegal & private interest serving HVCC that dicates the public policy of 2 public trust giants that are holding the mortgage industry hostage. That the banksters are being propped up with taxpayer funds and can write any crap they want because the GSE's have a mandate to buy all the crap the banksters write. They've made brokers rely on their inferior choice of appraiser and have put the brokers local reputations at stake with lousy appraisers. There's some evil scheme underneath this corruption, something planned for a long time and it's not going to stop with appraisers. It's not paranoia if they really are after you.

realtor 21 tears: (February 09, 2010 11:34am)

Appraisers, obviously none of you appraisers are familiar with the Michigan market. I can produce hundreds of homes that were appraised pre 2006 for refinances at prices they could never possible have sold for so this means they were not based on comparable. Another home because of FHA seasoning rules had to have 2 apppraisal, one at sales price $100,000 the other $40,000 exact science based on comparables???? You appraisers only see one side of the business so you truly may not be aware of what is going on. There are good apppraisers and bad appraisers as in any industry, if you saw what I have seen you would agree with me 100% if you are a good appraiser. FYI Realtors cannot legall do BPOs only Brokers can in Michigan. Why have cities taken legal action against appraisers if there was no abuse? Check you FBI statistic for Mihigan rather than gthe nation and you will understand my point of view.

ILL Appraiser: (February 09, 2010 11:19am)

Wow realtor 21 years. 50-75% difference. On a million dollar property that's half a million to $750K off. Kinda doubtful. Nevertheless, the appraisal quality can only get worse because AMC's use the cheapest and least qualified. If you read these posts regularly you'll see that the people with the most experience and that had thriving and ethical practices, they're out, or almost out, of business. Myself included. Just recently I got a new client by referral and the processor marveled at my work saying she had never seen comp photos that weren't from the MLS amongst other accolades. I received another order, FHA, that she loved because it went right through underwriting but come 2/15....

QualityGirl: (February 09, 2010 11:17am)

You don't think realtor's listing prices (BPO's) are over inflated. They make bigger fees than appraisers any day or year so the bigger the better for them ah?. Did that really start the whole mess? As an appraiser we constanly have to tell the realtor's around here to be realistic. Plus if the sales weren't out there to support then where do we get our value opinions?? Note: when there were sales. There have been plenty of contracts that had to be renogiated after our appraisals came in. Blame goes to all of us (realtor,customer,lender,appraiser) None of us are perfect and no it is not a science but it's better than desk top valuations any freakin day. I guess I am still seeing RED!

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 11:15am)

Toby-Actually shopping the deal is not what made me sad. And yes, in my earlier days, I did occasionally shop a value. But when you get non-defensible opinions of value and have to try to fight them, you learn a lesson that it just isn't worth it. I have lost a few deals before with shoppers. That is his right to shop and I respect that. I would shop it also. It irritates me that he went with them without even coming back to me. I gave him a very low quote and I was the reason he got a good deal. I mean after all, why didn't BofA quote out their lowest rate and terms to begin with? Why would he give them the business without giving me a last shot at it? If you are mad at the banks for wiping out your business, why give them the business, if all is equal? My point is that brokers hold the banks honest, and without us, they will run amuck and continue the fleecing of the US consumer. BTW- he had a credit card that he could have used.

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 11:13am)

realtor 21 years: Sorry, but appraisals are based on sales. Every market will have low, medium and high sales. Every appraiser should go with "most probable value", there is the rub, each of us has an opinion of what that means, and most can defend their value with factual evidence, appraisals are part science and part art, I have both a realtors lic and appraisers cert and know each hat is different. The realtor is as much to blame as the appraiser, underwriter, broker etc. But in reality, there were enough checks and balances to not create the crash, GREED by any and all of those parties caused the crash, and as many have said before, you can not teach morals, Look at history before you start spewing blame at any single group, you are somewhat naive. I think most are honest, but it only takes a few to do damage, You will find alot of appraisers who said the crash was coming years ago, but nobody listened. Where were you when the bubble started to grow, maybe lining your pockets?

5pence: (February 09, 2010 11:10am)

I take exception to those comments realtor. You are obviously mis-informed. According to the FBI appraisers had the least hand in the melt-down, less than 13% fraud could be contributed to them. Realtors were much higher. If you had 2 appraisal that were 50-70% apart you must have been going either for the cheapest appraisers you could find or you went with an AMC. On relocation appraisals experienced appraisers are never more than 5% differing in their valuations. You're an idiot. I think you're an AMC shill. The only cause of the meltdown was the banks not doing underwriting on the loans they wrote. They did not manage their risk, purposely. Appraiser fraud happens individually and not industry wide. What is the appraiser going to get for committing fraud and risking losing their license? Another guaranteed job at $450? Yes. You'll do much better analysing the facts before you jump to conclusions. Realtors contributed more to the meltdown than any individual appraiser ever could.

realtor 21 years : (February 09, 2010 10:59am)

May not be on subject but, saw the word appraiser and I saw red. Not only the banks going to put the country into a second recession/depression with there tightening of credit, appraiser's are going to have to take their share of the blame. I don't care who you talk to APPRAISING is not an EXACT science it is heavily waited by personal opinion, interpretation and many times just a bad mood. I van't tell you how many times I have had the same house appraised by 2 appraisers with descrencys ranging fron 50-75%. That is a far cry from an exact science. Appraisers and their banks created the housing crash by lose lending prices and over inflated appraisals, now they have done a 180 nobody can qualify and many more homes to not appraise. There is a comprimise to save America e-mail me at paulga6@aol.com Paul.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 10:51am)

Clulessdad : sorry to hear you lost a loan to bankster B of A and you did all the work on it. The appraiser was clueless and it's no wonder he's not getting any work. That's pretty chitty of him to do and he didn't even bother asking if you could beat B of A's new offer. Maybe you should get an IQ test the next time you're asked about a GFE and offer your expertise, lol.

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 10:35am)

Toby: I am gonna defend clueles on this one(not that he needs it), he seems pretty genuine in his posts. Asking three appraisers for an opinion is not the same as continuing to shop till you find someone who hits value. I do NOT know what camp he is in, but his posts seem in line with more honest than other side.

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 10:29am)

Clulessdad: I am not defending him, but I am gonna guess he could not afford to pay for the appraisal even with a credit for it later. Man that is sad, right on target with laugh or cry, maybe both

Toby: (February 09, 2010 10:25am)

Clulessdad, Are yout telling us you never shopped an appraisal around for a value?! What goes around, comes around.

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 10:21am)

Here is a story that made me angry and laugh at the same time. An appraiser, who hasn't received 1 job since Dec., asked me to look at his GFE for his refi. I quoted him a .25% rate reduction and a $500 betterment in fees than his GFE. He told me to get started. I spent almost a day on the paperwork to send, getting all the necessary fees on the GFE. I sent the package by email to him, but did not hear anything from him for 3 days. Finally I emailed him and asked if he received my email. He responded he received it. Not hearing anything for another couple of days, I emailed him again. This time he responded that he took my quote to BofA and they matched it (Ain't that special?), so he was going with them. They quoted higher, but since he had a valid GFE, they brought down their quote and told him they would include the appraisal. When I responded, I told him that I would have credited him the appraisal and more. Then I told him I hope that BofA helps him with his fight against HVCC.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 10:16am)

Cuomo sues more people - LMAO!!!

The Daver: (February 09, 2010 10:15am)

You guys are now just finding igoogle, I have been using it ever since 2007 and now I hate it with the new side tab. I have a fix for that if you want it. I think what you guys need is a tech guy like me who is out there on the edge

5pence: (February 09, 2010 10:01am)

When the Fed was put in control of securing the dollars value in 1913, a dollar was worth a 100 cents. That same dollar in less than 100 years is now worth 4 cents. The Fed is a total failure and is leading us to ruin. Could that be the banksters plan? Sorry to get off-topic but I think it's worth mentioning considering how we're all getting ripped off.

5pence: (February 09, 2010 9:55am)

Yes clulessdad: It appears the Fed is only there to enrich themselves (banking cartels) through creating booms and busts, inflating the money supply and then contracting it. As long as they are owed they are in control, and that is the best way for the banksters to enrich themselves and it's probably fun for them with their boring money rich existances. Thing is, the Constitution states that Congress and the people are the only ones that are supposed to be in control of the money supply - instead we left it control of the banksters to manipulate the money supply and this nation any way they want. Crazy. Did you know that it's illegal to use silver or gold as currency? Thanks to the Fed. They needed to create their own standard for money so they could manipulate it and taking our currency off the gold standard did it. Now they control dollar values worldwide with the "agreed" international standard being the dollar. It's paper based on nothing, fiat currency-it's a confidence game/scam.

bankerman: (February 09, 2010 9:42am)

It's a good thing that bit didn't last much longer....i think Brian was about to have a stroke!

real appraiser: (February 09, 2010 9:38am)

I was not able to see the live show, either. Can someoneone point out the highlights (or lowlights) of the show. I've seen several requests to see if it was taped, I guess it was not. If someone can point out The most important stuff, it would be much appreciated, thanks

CA appraiser: (February 09, 2010 9:32am)

THAT'S WHERE I RECOGNIZE YOU FROM!! BACK UP DANCER FOR MC HAMMER!!! LOL

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 9:30am)

Frank & Brian-Tuesday I missed Friday's HVCC webcast. Any viable consensus alternatives that the group thought up?

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 9:27am)

5pence-I watched the Zeitgeist for the Fed last night. It was indeed riveting! Wow! A complete different spin to history and there was nothing there to disprove any of it. Well at least I couldn't find anything. My main take is that FED=DEBT. Funny how on the Fed's website nothing is mentioned that it is a private company.

punxsaphil: (February 09, 2010 9:26am)

Everyone should read and follow links on the great info provided by Mr Herzog re Shared Loss Agreements (SLA) between the FDIC and TARP banks (yoo know hoo). Now is the time for everyone to stand up and tell our reps that we have had enough bs from these banks and they are hurting our business and our ability to help America get out of this funk we find ourselves in. With regard to restricting our ability to do business or the hurt they are putting on homeowners one wonders Is a class action suit against these banks One West et al possible? Please ask your friendly class action lawyer when they come up for air...

A: (February 09, 2010 9:17am)

Banksters! The old trustworthy people that can put a dent in your life while they become rich with the money they stole from you, bankrupt a once formidable nation and later still rob you blind, again and again. You think our Government is protecting us? Who do you think is electing our Governments? Did you think it was you? Think again!

Ed: (February 09, 2010 9:16am)

Cuomo, Frank, Dodd, & Schumer...to think I used I used to like big boobs!

A: (February 09, 2010 9:16am)

It sounds like the Banksters of America found their perfect match. John Courson In my opinion this type of person is the basis for the degradation of the Mortgage Industry. He stands accused in a civil lawsuit of defrauding 11 former branch managers and embezzling $879,000 as his California-based brokerage collapsed in 2007. In a separate lawsuit filed last year, Courson was accused of misappropriating $1.6 million by now-defunct Lehman Brothers Bank. After years of making millions and perhaps billions in the mortgage business he closed the door of his last company, Central Pacific Mortgage leaving his entire company without their last pay check. Loyal hard working loan officers and support staff some of whom are single parents were left penniless at the worst time in the history of the mortgage business. http://forum.brokeroutpost.com/loans/forum/2/97465.htm Banksters!

5pence: (February 09, 2010 9:06am)

The banksters are creating a new constitution for this country and a new system - Kleptocracy. A system based on "Of the elite, by the elite and for the elite (banks)". Central bankers control the Fed. Those that control the money supply control the country and it's people. The Fed bailed out America and since the Fed is private, America had to pay for the Fed's involvement in "saving" the country. 1913, the year the Fed was created is the same year Federal Income tax was instituted after the 16th Amendment to the Constitution. Coincidence? Our money goes to pay off the national debt and who do we owe for that? The Fed and their cronys. 4 months a year we work and that money goes into the bankers pockets. You might think I'm going off the deep end here, lol. But it makes sense. We are not being listened to - in other words, we don't matter in this new world order. We're the debt slaves of this nation so is it any wonder? Bring back the Constitution!!

TheFyouSay: (February 09, 2010 9:00am)

I almost forgot. F the MBA !!!

TheFyouSay: (February 09, 2010 8:59am)

Check out the bass on that guy!!

B Obama & Barney Frank....well not really... Lender Who knows better.: (February 09, 2010 8:58am)

Courson is anti-American...Every American wants the government to take care of them....

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 8:55am)

the problem is when they get rid of ap88rs there IS no check.loan fraud will then really take off.avm's and bpo's are a joke,but the only ones laughing are the banks and some Realtors that do them(thanks for that some of you guys)statistical data CAN do our job but only from behind a desk.They are cold facts. NOTHING can tell whether an investment is a good deal,unless a human inspects it to see what the situation actually is etc.fees will be lowered,ap88rs as we know it may disappear,stats will be more in vogue.its easier, faster and definitely cheaper than an ap88r.BUT then who will they blame?

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 8:43am)

A refi's no different as again the ap88rs are protecting the investor and the investment not the borrower,thats one reason I dont have any pressure in my value.I dont care if it wont work for the borrower or the broker,as the investor is my main concern.amc's are only a conduit to the investor,nothing more nothing less,they take no responsibility,demand that appraisers cover them in our E&O,get a gazillion $s for their "monumental" effort and yet can review the report & reject the ap88r if they so desire. incredible.THANKS A BUNCH AI AND ASA for promoting HVCC and amc's

5pence: (February 09, 2010 8:43am)

Qualitygirl: AMC's will keep dropping fees. It's a race to the bottom for appraisers that do work for them. I've heard $50 1004's. Their plan, IMO, is to reduce appraisers to the lowest common denominators (those that will work for nothing), the inexperienced and just plain bad appraisers, then they will say "Look at this crap professional appraisers are putting out! Our AVM's do just as good a job! Do we really need appraisers anymore if they are that inaccurate and do crappy work?" They'll say AVM's, BPO's & alternative valuation systems do a better job than these appraisers! That will be the end of this profession and I expect it in less than 2 yrs at the rate these AMC's are lowering fees. You can bet they will keep lowering fees to the point where an AVM and an appraisal cost the same amount. IMHO we need to expose this corruption to the American people and a great way to do that is start a 50 state pledge site to quash Cuomo in his run for Governor. B & F dead pan deliver? LOL!!

JD: (February 09, 2010 8:41am)

Glad I never join the MBA.

jrcappraiser: (February 09, 2010 8:38am)

Keep up the good work on fighting for our right to work with whom we want. The HVCC has taken away over 50% of my income, mostly lenders, and my business development over 25 years. The current policy is for government control not private enterprise. I refuse to do AMC lowball appraisals and have developed more private clients. I guess that is the thanks for providing my clients quality, realistic appraisals for the past 25 years. I also keep up with the education and maintaining my designation. Good appraisers are the eyes and ears of our clients. If they had quality control on the lending policy this would have never happened. I also blame the government for forcing banks to make bad loans to poor or unqualified borrowers.

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 8:33am)

with the HVCC and the advent of amc's......who actually IS the client?I have alwasy considered the client to be the lender not the borrower,and cedrtainly not the amc.I know the borrower pays for the appraisal,but my job is to protect investor from making a bad investment,not the borrower from buying a pig in a poke,as by the time the appraisal gets commissioned in a sale,the deal is signed sealed and delivered & as an analyst its my job to inform the investor of the risk,the borrower has already made the contractual decision to buy with someone else's money,just didnt consider the risk the investor is making in that purchase.

Ancient Appraiser: (February 09, 2010 8:26am)

Anon: Part of the HVCC as written, provides for documents to be provided to appraisers and forwarded, so that; “each borrower, as part of a cover letter accompanying the provided appraisal, will be notified of the hotline and email address and their purpose.” I would assume failure to provide this phone number and email address would be non-compliance of sorts. In addition, these phone numbers and email addresses should come in handy to irate borrowers that were scorched by the new code. You might wish to point this out to your client. Phone numbers and email information has to be provided because; after all it is in the Code.

TX201: (February 09, 2010 8:18am)

Just a change of topic and a question that I have. Do we want to support Cuomo's oppostion in the governor's race, or would we and the rest of the country aside from New York benefit by getting this guy out of the AG office. Really, how much damage does a governor do out side of his own state? My apologies to New York if he wins, but think of it as taking one for the team, and the team is the rest of the United States and the entire lending industry

QualityGirl: (February 09, 2010 8:14am)

I was just kidding "unionjerkwads"....No UNIONS. Just would like all of us to unite, somehow, some way. Brian and Frank have definitely helped, I believe. They seem to have eyes on the whole picture. I respect their advise. We definitely do not need more government control, guidelines, fees, regulations, reform, etc. I shout..NO TO HVCC! Just feel defeated and overwhelmed, somedays...

Ancient Appraiser: (February 09, 2010 8:02am)

Anonymous: You can contact the Independent Valuation Protection Institute, like it says in the Code. Oh! Wait! They never did that, did they? Seriously call the lender involved and tell them you want to complain to the Institute and force the issue. Love to hear their response!

BrokeBroker: (February 09, 2010 7:53am)

I demand a recount on Sexyfest! None of the sexy women I voted for won. Not to say that the winners weren't sexy but for those women that didn't win, you should know you got votes and you're sexy too. And for you guys, winners or losers, I don't really care

ThePhoenix: (February 09, 2010 7:39am)

I sat on a committee with John Courson back in the early 90's called the Real Estate Finance Advisory Commission to the California Department of Real Estate. I always liked Mr. Courson and found him to be very intelligent. However, this attack on consumers regarding walking away from homes was offensive when I first heard it and now that the MBA has done exactly what homeowners have done it makes it even more offensive. He needs to do the right thing, step up and apologize to homeowners. Otherwise... the MBA is just another bully organization and Mr. Courson will have lost my respect (like that matters).

appraiserguy: (February 09, 2010 7:30am)

anonymous - always blame the appraiser, and forget they that do not fabricate sales, a great code to live by.

KPnKY: (February 09, 2010 7:27am)

After watching today's segment, I am convinced that white men can't jump OR dance! You guys make me laugh everyday! Thanks!

UnionsJerkwads?: (February 09, 2010 7:26am)

An appraisers union? Uhhh jerkwads have you ever seen an industry lower costs to a consumer using a union? Get real, hvcc needs to go not the free market. The only thing you get with a union is Obama keeping you in among his favorite protected companies or industries. Cash for clunkers, healthcare? Can you SAY UNIONS?

Jerry C: (February 09, 2010 7:26am)

Thanks Brian, but it doesn't go back far enough. Any way to get to older ones? By the way, love your show and forward it often.

ExGirl: (February 09, 2010 7:23am)

Jerry I'd sign up for Hammers webinar. I attended last week, well spent 40 bucks! NO selling, cool cool ideas.

brian tbws: (February 09, 2010 7:22am)

you can access old videos at your "right" in the "related video" area.

Jerry C: (February 09, 2010 7:17am)

Is there a way to access old vidoes. I'd love to watch the one they did on the steps to closing with the new GFE. Is there a way to seach older video clips. I think this was in early January.

joecolorado: (February 09, 2010 7:11am)

QualityGirl-I havent been offered an opportunity from ANY amc that maintains my fee scale on the initial contact even though they have my fee scale on the screen when they talk with me!My philosophy is if you want me to work for you,my fee is $XXX,I dont negotiate.BUT what is worse,my clients are not allowed access to me,the lender is not allowed access,& I am surprised the borrower is allowed to let me into their home!All offers from amc's have been 50%-70%+/- of my fee,and I think I am lucky I am being offered THAT,I dont take it of course,all of my work has been reduced to properties under $500,000 as they must get appr's to accept requests at ridiculously low fees,(I know its not me)& I HAVE been told by them to increase my E&O coverage a comfortable limit I have had for 10 years with no issues.Pride may come before a fall,but if you dont have pride in your product and know its worth,how can you promote yourself honestly?Just say NO is my motto,know your worth and work to rule.

Rob in AZ: (February 09, 2010 7:05am)

Frank & Brian--thanks for the careful analysis both yesterday and today (FDIC, MBA). If our newspapers still adhered to the old axiom "follow the money" they wouldn't be failing across the country!

Ronco: (February 09, 2010 6:32am)

Anonymous, you could file a complaint with your State RE Boad but it will probally fall on deaf ears. In my state the RE Board does not get involved in value disputes unless gross errors can be proved. Again, a big problem with the HVCC. HAve your borrower's tried calling and talking to the appraiser? IN defense of the appraiser he may have provided a good appraisal with the best comparables available and a good value but for some reason such as net & gross adjustments, distance of comparables, ect... the lenders did not like the appraisals. Due to the limited amount of available sales comparables sometimes we as appraiser's have to do things outside the box that the lender's do not like. But, we can only work with the data that is available. I wished I could be of more help but the HVCC just stinks!

Appraiserman: (February 09, 2010 6:25am)

The HVCC is a tru joke. It just shows how big business controls this country. One man from New York can single handly destroy the lives of so many appraisers, cause mortgage brokers to loose deals, cause borrower's to be overcharged and be ripped off by inaccurate appraisals. I too have refused to work for these scumbucket AMC's and I have lost about 40% of my income in the last 6 - 8 months. Thank goodness I'm also a Real Estate Broker and can sell Real Estate. I am just trying to change my ratio from 70% appraisals 30% R.E. to 70% RE and 30% apraisals. We are all paying the price for the decisions big business makes. I am all about capitalism but this is more like dictatiorship rule! Some way, some how, we must all take to the streets of Washington to protest!!! While this will probally never happen it needs to! The HVCC, and the lending practices of Fannie & Freddie are taking us down the same path of destruction that it did before.

Anonymous: (February 09, 2010 6:19am)

Anonymout to Ronco - We did a rebuttal on two of the three and provided more info. Basically, the house was over appraised in the beginning. I want my customers money back for providing a bad product. If you purchase a TV and get it home to realize that it is defective, you get your money back. In this case, the appraisal was defective and the AMC said too bad. "We did our job and that was to provide an opinion of value" and we deserve to get paid. Problem is that they did it so poorly. Why is it unreasonable for me to get my customers money back in this case? Has anyone ever tried for some recourse in a situation similar to this?

QualityGirl: (February 09, 2010 6:19am)

Wow I love the responses! I take pride in my work and maybe an Appraiser's Union is something we need to work on developing before we become extinct..thanks to everyone else's new guidelines. Power in numbers.

EmmaDomain: (February 09, 2010 6:15am)

Can someone send us a handbasket to make our trip to hell a little more enjoyable?

FL appraiser: (February 09, 2010 6:12am)

Quality Girl - I to refuse to do assignments for AMC's UNLESS I get my full fee. We all know where that gets you. So, I don't do work for them. In the long run we will once again see the residential market in trouble due to the appraisals being done by the appraisers that will work for nothing. I really don't think that many have put a pencil to exactly how much they are working for. McDonalds would probably pay them a higher overall wage. I don't believe they have factored in the expense involved in each assignment. They have to loosing money, they just don't realize yet they are not being paid for their time. I have not been asked to lower my fees and I wouldn't if asked. I have over 45 years experience and my clients get great reports, they deserve it. I refuse to pay the AMC's fees to their clients for them, essentially that is what an appraiser does when they accept an assignment from an AMC at a low fee. Let the AMC's pay their own fees. There should be an appraisers union!

Ronco: (February 09, 2010 6:10am)

Anonymous, If you feel that they are sales comparables with more recent sales dates, and closer in distance and are more similar to the subject than the ones used in the report you could have provided them to the lender or requested a second appraisal be ordered. I performed a second appraisal on a property several weeks ago that come in $100k less that the first appraisal. I used comps in the subdivision while the first appraiser went 5 miles away. The lender also felt that the first appraisal was inflated, and boy were thaty correct. The HVCC has been a disaster for everyone. Besides cutting my income 30% - 40% and losing clients I had built up over 15 years it destroys the communication that is needed between lender and appraiser. Just like the health care debate, something needed to be done to take the pressure off of appraiser's but in my opinion the HVCC does oppisite of what it was intended to do.

BOBBI BROKER CHGO.: (February 09, 2010 5:53am)

sORRY FOR MY LOUSY TYPING SKILLS

Anonymous: (February 09, 2010 5:52am)

Is there any recourse for an appraisal that is declined by three investors due to a value that the lenders didn't accept (they felt it was over appraised)? High credit scores, low ratios just a home value from an AMC appraiser that the lenders didn't agree with. Now, my customer is out the $$ and I don't have a loan. I thought the purpse of an AMC was to help keep the pressure off of appraisers to over-appraise and provide some distance from lender to appraiser. Thus leading to more accurate appraisals (per se). Any thoughts?

BOBBI BROKER CHGO.: (February 09, 2010 5:51am)

i ALSO MISSE fRIDAY'S DISCUSSION ON hvcc. is there somewhere i can go to know what the update is////

BOBBI BROKER: (February 09, 2010 5:49am)

cONT. when people are in a desperate situation, BoA is not making esier to get help. As far as the CEO OF MBA, THIS PINCHED FACED MAN WHOULD KEEP IS JUDGMENT TO HIMSELF WHILE HE IS RECEING BONUSES AND GREAT BENEFITS. IT IS ENOUGH IAM PISSED OFF.

BOBBI BROKER: (February 09, 2010 5:42am)

Great job guys on getting the poop on MBA. This needs to get to the media. Here is a story for you. I am a mortgage broker, and on a personal note I am helping out a freind who is very ill to get him a loan mondification. Oh Brother, his loan is with BofA and while thy are offering some great programs, I was on thephone for 7 hours traight and was switched to every dept. you can think of. They have the HOPE proam thru Hud, the also have Home affordable and They also have immenant defautl dept andSpecail Forebearance. What is that you ask. Well Specail forebearance is where they give the borrower immediate relief for 3 months and hold the mortgage and payments and then put in the back of he loan. Of course that took me 3 hours because I got 5 different stories. Did I mention that I was disconnectd 5 times. While my friend qualifys for all the programs, it will still take 45 days to receive the aapplication to even start this crap. I give........ When people are is desperate situa

goingnutsinMN: (February 09, 2010 5:30am)

QuailityGirl - No I have not been asked to lower fees. I however have refused to work for AMC's and to date have not done an appraisal for one. Lending work in only one portion of the appraisal industry. Once the HVCC was talked about we diversified and now are doing more work for accountants and attorneys. All full fee:)

Clulessdad: (February 09, 2010 5:14am)

F&B-I missed all of Friday's HVCC discussion. Was it recorded? Or more importantly, was there a new consensus alternative?

QualityGirl: (February 09, 2010 5:06am)

Change of topic. Are all Appraisers getting requests from lenders and AMC's to lower their fees at least 10%? We have already lost business due to HVCC and market, yet we have to do more work. Are you appraiser's really lowering your fees? It makes me see RED. I am standing firm on my fee for delivering quality work for 15 years. Or will my pride close my doors? Any suggestions??

Broker in RIC: (February 09, 2010 4:18am)

3 take aways from todays show: 1. Best poll question to date. 2. The dude in the boxers was classic. 3. A 30 day link to the Daily for the winners... really? Keep up the good work guys!

Jersey Girl: (February 09, 2010 4:18am)

B&F: Thanks for the MC Hammer Dance this morning...a great start to my day! :)

GaryP: (February 09, 2010 3:34am)

Htpocrisy in the mortgage industry? You're kidding me right? Maybe I should call my congressman. No! Even better yet! I'll call Barney Frank! Surely someone with Berney's high level of ethical standards can look into this and get a law passed. Does anyone really think that I'm serious?