HVCC Here to Stay! - 06.28.10 | Video Marketing and Mortgage News Designed for Mortgage and Real Estate Sales

smapes: (June 28, 2010 7:53pm)

Script to reconnect to past clients. It has occurred to me that since we worked together on the successful purchase/sale of your home, I have not been in touch with you and is time I do something about it. I cannot tell you the number of times I have meant to pick up the phone to check on how you and your family are doing in your new home and then got distracted and never got turned around to it. That is going to change. I have made a decision to work solely with a select number of people so I can provide the kind of personal ongoing service you deserve from your real estate consultant. Hopefully you will feel you can count on me to take care of not only your family's future real estate needs, but also those of any of your friends, relatives, and business associates. You will be receiving articles that you will hopefully find valuable and calls from time to time to say hello. Again, please forgive me for not doing a better job of keeping in touch...I will not repeat that error.

Lin: (June 28, 2010 6:23pm)

Guidelines?? Can someone explain to me how a purchase of a bank owned property constitutes a flip & warrants 3 appraisals being done before being cleared to close? Are they kidding??

5pence: (June 28, 2010 5:42pm)

The more choices for the consumer the more protections there are. Lenders will be competing to protect the consumer the best. That is where competition needs to be.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 5:40pm)

Just peeking back in and Owl Tree has it right. This is by no way a done deal and it could tip over in either direction depending on support. Keep on your congressmen/women that, protecting the consumer is giving them choices in a free open market.

Valuequestor: (June 28, 2010 3:38pm)

5pence: Yes, the section of fees was the highlight for me. If we get our just fee there won't be the huge profit center for the banks any longer. Read it Bankster! IN GENERAL—Lenders and their agents shall compensate fee appraisers at a rate that is customary and reasonable for appraisal services performed in the market area of the property being appraised.” The bill, however, goes further than the FHA mandate in describing manners in which customary and reasonable fees are to be determined: “Evidence for such fees may be established by objective third-party information, such as government agency fee schedules, academic studies, and independent private sector surveys. Fee studies shall exclude assignments ordered by known appraisal management companies.” Now its up to individual appraisers to stand strong on fees and point to the FEDERAL REGULATIONS when dealing with crooks.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 3:22pm)

It's really up to appraisers to grab this by the horns during the interim rules making function. Phone calls, emails, and letters need to go out to demand the ability to work with the general public. In short, your license should mean something. Focus on the right of the consumer to conduct business with a duly-licensed professional.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 3:15pm)

Wow, after 3pm already - where does the time go (translating government-speak lol). Have a good rest of the day.

stantheman: (June 28, 2010 2:53pm)

Frank & Brian: I'll be up at 3:00am and i'll read your update on the subject then /// So get to work I'll have coffee waiting. You guys do a great job for all of us thanks

cgappraisals: (June 28, 2010 2:47pm)

5pence, thanks, I just read it and saved PDF on desktop. Looks pretty darn good to me. Looks like maybe a little light at the end of the tunnel. Looked like there was more there to protect the appraiser.

stantheman: (June 28, 2010 2:47pm)

5pence and cgappraiser: Boy I hope you guys are right. But if broker can order or not you still have to get them to do it. most of the ones I know say they won't. They just don't want to fight the banks. I wouldn't want to give up the bizz myself.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 2:42pm)

I hope Frank and Brian address the new language tomorrow. It is good bedside reading. LOL

5pence: (June 28, 2010 2:34pm)

LOL cgappraisals - glad I could help. Have a beer for me too lol. I hope my assumptions are right - It appears to me that the bill is saying volumes more than just what's printed. What it doesn't say is pretty darn good. What a mess HVCC made.

cgappraisals: (June 28, 2010 2:24pm)

It went from tbws saying "HVCC is here to stay" this morning. To now if you use HVCC you violate the new law and will pay a fine for it. What a turn around. I was depressed to now joyous:) Maybe even have a beer today!

5pence: (June 28, 2010 2:20pm)

cgappraisals: I hope this will work for you - http://financialservices.house.gov/Key_Issues/Financial_Regulatory_Reform/Final_conference_titles/T14_FINAL.pdf

5pence: (June 28, 2010 2:19pm)

The only thing bothering me is this language "Lenders and their Agents". Sounds like it might be up to the banks to designate "Agents". But, with ensured portability, it'd be in the banks best interests to allow competition from brokers. And it specifically doesn't limit compensation of appraisers to "only" lenders and their agents. It's appears to be saying a lot more than just what's stated IMO. We'll see, soon I'm sure. But really Brian and Frank, aren't you jumping the gun on HVCC is here to stay??!! ‘‘(i) CUSTOMARY AND REASONABLE FEE.—‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—Lenders and their agents shall compensate fee appraisers at a rate that is customary and reasonable for appraisal services performed in the market area of the property being appraised.

cgappraisals: (June 28, 2010 2:17pm)

OH Yah! 5pence, I like that. I am having trouble bringing up that link. I deleted the space, but PDF is not coming up. Can anyone help paste the link of Title 14? Again.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 2:10pm)

I'd say looking good for broker ordered.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 2:09pm)

‘‘(j) SUNSET.—Effective on the date the interim final regulations are promulgated pursuant to subsection (g), the Home Valuation Code of Conduct announced by the Federal Housing Finance Agency on December 23, 2008, shall have no force or effect. (k) PENALTIES.— (1) 1ST VIOLATION.—In addition to the enforcement provisions referred to in section 130, each person who violates this section shall forfeit and pay a civil penalty of not more than $10,000 for each day any such violation continues.‘‘(2) SUBSEQUENT VIOLATIONS.—In the case of any person on whom a civil penalty has been imposed under paragraph (1), paragraph (1) shall be applied by substituting ‘$20,000’ for ‘$10,000’ with respect to all subsequent violations. ‘‘(3) ASSESSMENT.—The agency referred to in subsection (a) or (c) of section 108 with respect to any person described in paragraph (1) shall assess any penalty under this subsection to which such person is subject.’’ HVCC is gone and there's monetary punishment for use.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 2:02pm)

5pence-I don't know. Maybe it was both. But by omission, it POTENTIALLY opens the door for maybe some group of people with brains to sort it out.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 1:57pm)

Actually, the language here seems to support broker ordered appraisals : ‘‘(c) EXCEPTIONS.—The requirements of subsection (b) shall not be construed as prohibiting a mortgage lender, mortgage broker, mortgage banker, real estate broker, appraisal management company, employee of an appraisal management company, consumer, or any other person with an interest in a real estate transaction from asking an appraiser to undertake 1 or more of the following: (1) Consider additional, appropriate property information, including the consideration of additional comparable properties to make or support an etc.... If they're giving a mortgage broker the power to request considerations of additional information by the appraiser - that says to me that they are empowering the individual broker to be one of the players along with AMC's and banks and in the scope of the request - it appears the broker is the one that sees the appraisal first - originating. Nothing specific yet about no broker ordered.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 1:37pm)

Clulessdad : "They struck out the paragraph where a SAFE Act LO can order one, but did NOT specifically prohibit it." That's what I was wondering - if Kanjorski's offering of portability was a response to removing that section or if it was a denial of the Senate offer and an added response.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 1:22pm)

New client = new appraisal and there can be no disclosure of any information in the new report from the previous report or it violates the previous client's confidentiality. Read that how you will. In reality, to avoid revealing any confidential information to the new client, all the comparables should be different, UNLESS they were the best and only ones available and you state that in the report. Also, you have to state in the report if you did another valuation of the same property within the last 3 years. Read the link. Client A orders an appraisal. Client B want the appraisal in their name. 2 different scopes of work, new inspection is also required (in case it burnt down during the time of the 2nd request and the original inspection). PITA I know, but it's how appraisers must roll. It protects the appraiser and the consumer and provides a paper trail. There is no such thing as an appraisal "update".

5pence: (June 28, 2010 1:08pm)

jcollins- USPAP is the appraisers bible. Violate USPAP and you could lose your appraisers license. It's law for appraisers. Some states have even adopted USPAP into state law so if you're in one of those states, and you pressure an appraiser to violate USPAP, you and the appraiser could face criminal charges.

Charmaine: (June 28, 2010 12:56pm)

I am sure you are aware the some lenders offer the FHA short refinance. Your borrower will need to meet FHA's 203B product guidelines. There existing lender most be willing to work with them and recently a lot are. I have worked on files that the existing lender wrote off as much as $385,000.00 on the loan. If you are familiar with working on short sales the negations are about the same. A second with a different lender no problem FHA will go over 100% LTV if you are subordinating a seasoned second. With rates being so low this is a great way to call your customers that are currently upside down to see if you can help them out.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 12:52pm)

5pence-this still needs to voted in both houses of Congress, but the way in which it is titled, it appears as if it is the final compromised version of Title 14.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 12:51pm)

Owl Tree-I read that also. This final version has a lot of possibilities. Read the part about customary fees and not utilizing AMC data. page 144 "Fee studies shall exclude assignments ordered by known appraisal management companies." On page 174 shows that the consumer will know how much the appraiser was paid "Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act of 1974 is amended by adding at the end the following The standard form described in subsection (a)may include, in the case of an appraisal coordinated by an appraisal management company (as such term is defined in section 1121(11) of the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery, and Enforcement Act of 1989 (12 U.S.C. 3350(11))), a clear disclosure of—‘‘(1) the fee paid directly to the appraiser by such company; and‘‘(2) the administration fee charged by such company.’’."

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 12:44pm)

Then where is it illegal??? the appriaser goes back out and the comps are they same. transfer complete nothing wrong.. This is away to get around the banks that state they do not accept transfered appriasals. becuase they are truely not transfered. The AMC is just making sure the same appriaser that was selected with in HVCC compliance is selecte again. The appriaser lowers there fee and the AMC does as well.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 12:44pm)

I'm reading it now, but is this the absolute final that goes to the Pres to sign? It appears there's still some "insert here" language. Would the final bill have such statements?

5pence: (June 28, 2010 12:37pm)

banks have internal forms where they can transfer an appraisal to another lender without changing the name, just re-assigning it. I've seen the forms. Banksters don't want to lose the client so they ignore portability and say it can't be done. Like I said earlier, if there is portability, that would open up banks to consumers comparisons of the benefits of different lenders and that would lead to unwanted competition. They want to keep it all quiet and in-house to continue their non-competitive monopoly.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 12:37pm)

5pence-I would like your take on the final version of Title 14. All of you appraisers should read the final version. Owl Tree appears to be correct. There is no prohibition of broker ordered appraisals. They struck out the paragraph where a SAFE Act LO can order one, but did NOT specifically prohibit it. Owl Tree-I just cut and pasted in Firefox and up it came! No errors.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 12:30pm)

Check out page 176 through 178.... it could be window dressing, but the GAO needs to submit finding in 90 days that address the impacts of HVCC on a number of areas, including how appraisals are ordered, including the impact of HVCC on mortgage brokers and customers.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 12:28pm)

jcollins : No. Banks have always been able to transfer appraisals between themselves. Some want the appraisal to reflect them as the new client, that is their choice, but that entails a new appraisal. Some lenders just accept that the report has a different clients name and nothing more is requested of the appraiser. This is supposed to be particularly true of HUD/FHA appraisals.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 12:24pm)

Appraisal Foundation – October Q&A October 30, 2009 Appraisal Foundation Client Request to Limit Scope of Work to New Client Name. Question: An appraiser completed an appraisal for Client A. Client B received a copy of the appraisal from Client A and finds it acceptable for their purposes, but wants to be identified as the client in the appraisal report. Client B is aware that appraisers are prohibited from readdressing (or transferring) a completed report to a different client’s name. As a result, Client B would like to engage the appraiser in a new assignment, limiting the appraiser’s scope of work to only identifying them as the new client. Can the appraiser complete the assignment from Client B under these terms? Response: No. USPAP requires the scope of work performed to produce credible assignment results. USPAP clearly establishes that the scope of work is determined by the appraiser. http://appraisalinsight.blogs.realtor.org/category/appraisal-foundation/

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 12:20pm)

You have to type that link with no spaces...if you cut and paste it, you get an error.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 12:15pm)

TO CLULESSDAD: You're welcome. In case someone needs help with the link, it's here below. I had to "cut it up" to get it to fit inside the margins. Anyway, the Portability and HVCC sunset stuff starts around page 143. Yeah, Dodd c###-blocked explicit language allowing the brokers to order the appraisal, but on the flip so, there was no explicit prohibition of that either. So, at least in theory, further gains could be made in the interim or final regulations. It's just a matter of hoping that whoever writes the final rules has a better grip than Chris Dodd or Andrew Cuomo. And honestly, that's really not setting the bar too high. http://financialservices.house.gov/ Key_Issues/Financial_Regulatory_Reform/ Final_conference_titles/T14_FINAL.pdf

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 12:12pm)

when you say client are talking about new lender? So it is illegal for an appraiser to go back out and reappriase a property (same property) for a different AMC. That could be a problem. It is not against HVCC the appriaser was chosen with in AMCs rules. So really USPAP is preventing appriasal from being transfered as well.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 12:07pm)

jcollins- new client = new appraisal. Of course the amc will say update. They're idiots and not appraisers. Wells Fargo/RELS has it's own forms that violate USPAP and are illegal so don't expect them to not cut corners if it benefits them. Legal means less to them than profits. No where to complain so they get away with it.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 12:07pm)

I would still need to look it up and ask the questons. Are you saying that an appraiser can not complete an appraisal for two different AMCs? When did USPAP make that rule? I have never looked at the rules for USPAP, but I have heard that they are filled with typica garbage rules that really make no sense. Ignorance, is not keeping an open mind. You only know something is true until proven wrong.

DonnyUtah: (June 28, 2010 12:05pm)

Script: Hi Brian. Did you know that the Village People are playing at the California State Fair July 27th? Wow! Isn't that great! By the way I am ALWAYS looking for more clients just like you.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:59am)

Just using the term as it was told to me. This is what the AMC said to order. If the appriasl is out of scope YES, new appriasal. but, if it is not then what to you need to do?

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:57am)

jcollins - you are asking an appraiser to do something illegal and they could lose their license for it. You now know so ignorance is no excuse.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:56am)

jcollins- drop the term update. There is no such thing. It's a new appraisal. In the past if I had to do a new appraisal on the same property for a new client, the new appraisal had all new comps as the original appraisal and results related to the scope of work of that particular client alone. stantheman - new client, new scope of work, new appraisal. Yes, when the AMC insists you put in their comps and those comps alter the value you concluded - that is illegal and a violation of USPAP in undue influencing of the appraisers valuation results. The only reason to change or alter a report when it's completed is to correct errors.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 11:53am)

You guys have to read it. http://financialservices.house.gov/Key_Issues/Financial_Regulatory_Reform/Final_conference_titles/T14_FINAL.pdf

cpappraisal: (June 28, 2010 11:53am)

Prior to HVCC according to USPAP a new appraisal has to be ordered and done period. We are not supposed to be and should not have in the past transferring appraisals from one company to another. Not consumer friendly I know but these have been the USPAP regulations even prior to HVCC.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 11:52am)

That version has some interesting tidbits. 1. Separation of the appraiser's cut and the AMC's cut on the HUD1.2. Registration, fee structure and authority over AMC's (There is a lot there) 3.A little blurb where customary appraisal fee study will not include AMC data.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:51am)

stantheman::: Would you like to make an extra 50-100 for the same appriasal?? just need to go out and update.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:50am)

stantheman::: Would you like to make an extra 50-100 for the same appriasal?? just need to go out and update.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:49am)

I am not talking about FHA.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:49am)

I am not talking about FHA.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:47am)

HOw about, The appriaser is on the list of two different AMCs. the apraiser goes out and completes the appraisal for ABC bank. Deal does not go through. Now we need to transfer the apprisal to a new lender 123. Can not transfer the appraisal.. We order a new appraisal through the other AMC as an update. The AMC accepts the nes appriasal. From what I have have been told and read. There is no problem with AMCs transfering apprisals. Are you saying that n appraiser can not appraise the same property for two diferent AMCs????

stantheman: (June 28, 2010 11:44am)

If we complete an appraisal for an AMC and then we are requested to make any changes to that report to added on formation requested by the new underwriter it is a new appraisal and also we should get a notice of who requested the change to keep a complete scope of work file. This would mean that other than a lender change it's another completed appraisal an new fees apply. In other word where do we draw the line on changes.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 11:44am)

Frank Garay- Look at OwlTrees research link-It appears that this is a newer version of the Reform Bill that I read last Wed. http://financialservices.house.gov/Key_Issues/Financial_Regulatory_Reform/Final_conference_titles/T14_FINAL.pdf I see that part of the sunset of HVCC. I see the part of appraisal portability. But I do not see any mention of the prohibition of brokers ordering appraisals. All of you need to read this in full-it has a lot of interesting stuff. Thanks OwlTree!

CDMTG: (June 28, 2010 11:43am)

Warning: to those of you that are thinking of using Loanofficerschool.com for your NMLS training... don't... they missrepresent that they prepare you for both the State and Federal tests - when they only offer the Federal ... I just threw my money away by registering and they could care less I am not satisfied - and were rude when I tried to tell them so - so comsumer beware.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:37am)

And: Under what circumstances may an appraiser accept an assignment to appraise a property for a prospective lender/client when that appraiser has previously completed an appraisal of the same property for another lender/client? Accepting an assignment from a 2nd potential lender/client is not prohibited by USPAP, assuming any existing confidential information is handled properly. An appraiser cannot disclose the results of a particular assignment, performed for particular lender/client to anyone other than those designated by that lender/client. If there is a new potential lender/client, valuation services performed for the new lender/client would constitute a new assignment & the assignment results would be specific to that new assignment. Therefore, acceptance & performance of the new assignment by the original appraiser of the same property would not be considered revealing the lender/client’s assignment results to the 2nd lender/client, even if the value conclusions were the same.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:33am)

jcollins: New client, new scope of work that means an entirely new appraisal. The old scope of work does not apply to the new client as each has their own particulars as far as what's needed or included in the report. It's the scope of work rule. "In situations where a transfer of a FHA case number between lenders becomes necessary and lender A provides a copy of the original appraisal to lender B who wants the appraiser to change the name of the client, may the appraiser readdress the appraisal or transfer a completed appraisal report in order to change the name of client in the appraisal report? No. In these situations FHA requires that the original appraiser perform a new appraisal assignment (see FAQ #74 and Advisory Opinion # 26 in the 2008-2009 edition of USPAP). The original appraisal and the second appraisal are required to be in the case binder. http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/appr/faqs_ML_09-29.pdf

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 11:30am)

I'm with 5pence's comments (11:06am). At the very least, portability is in the bill, and HVCC is gone 90 days from the date this bill is signed into law. Yes, we may see HVCC in a new guise. But the fact is, outside of Chris Dodd - who will soon be history himself - there is a lot of Congressional empathy for addressing the damage done by HVCC. That could lead to improvements.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:27am)

jcollins- sure it can be done but that doesn't mean it's legal. Legally, according to USPAP, there is no such thing as an update. If there's a new client there's a new scope of work and that means a new appraisal. Just because they make the forms doesn't mean what they want is legal. jcollins, we're on the same side. There HAS to be portability for the consumer. And if there's portability, there should be homeowner ordered imo. This HVCC rip-off and gouging of the consumer is totally illegal.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:24am)

MAYBE I AM WRONG?? If you have something that shows different please send it to me or direct me to the place to find it. Never willing to stop learning.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:22am)

Valueboy: It doesn expire in Nov. Just do a google search about HVCC expiring in Nov 2010. It's common knowledge.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:21am)

5pence, Do not be so narrow minded. The appraiser just redoes the appriasal for a very small fee. Far less to the consumer and no surprises. If that is wrong then I would love someone to explain to me why the consumers has to be taken to the cleaners in the name of consumer protection.

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:19am)

The study could be VA fees which are set in this area at $450/1004, or WINTOTAL fees which for this area are $400+/-. They can't use AMC fees as "Reasonable and customary". Besides, only idiots buy into "reasonable and customary" bullshiite. Employment under limiting terms makes you an employee without the benefits. Buying into those terms in regard to your fees means selling your independence for work as an employee without the benefits & lower non-independent appraiser fees. I wish this whole profession would just wake up! You have a plumbing leak in your house. You call the plumber to come fix it. You get bids. You don't tell the plumber that you'll pay them what's reasonable & customary & the amount you'll pay-they'll hang up on you or never show up. Appraisers don't because they're not smart enough to protect their independence or their profession. I'd have chosen another career if I'd known I'd be surrounded by like minded idiots that can't defend themselves or their livelihoods.

mtglady: (June 28, 2010 11:18am)

Ok, since none of my borrowers are under water this will be easy for me.. Hey Steve how are you and Elizabeth doing. Just thought I would check in on you and say "Hello" and to let you know I am still in the business and not going anywhere in case you,family member , or friend needs me I will be here! Not going anywhere!!

Valueboy: (June 28, 2010 11:16am)

Mi Appraiser, you and other have indicated that HVCC will sunset Nov. 1, 2010. Were did you get this date. The legal aggreement between Coumo and the banks said that it will expire "28" months after the "execution" of the aggeement. The legal aggreement was supposed to begin Jan. 1, 2009. That means HVCC would sunset May 1, "2011". However, HVCC didn't actually start until May 15, 2009. That means it would sunset Sept. 15, "2011". I'm totally confused. Where did you get Nov 2010, and if that is wrong which date in 2011 is correct?

5pence: (June 28, 2010 11:06am)

Frank, you're ignoring with the HVCC gone & brokers not able to order appraisals-maybe the consumer can and with regulated portability, that could mean the consumer can shop it to any broker and they in turn can shop it to any bank. Yes, my glasses are rose-colored. @Godlike. Again with the Dem/Rep banter. You just don't get it. They are all corporate puppets. You are arguing the color of the leopard while it's eating you. Ridiculous. @jcollins. There is no such thing as an appraisal update. If you found someone that did one for you-they violated USPAP. @miappraiser. Missing in Action appraiser? LOL. I am. These should have have been the busiest years for appraisers ever. The HVCC is illegal & sunsetting it with a study to see what harm it does proves that. They can not keep the HVCC alive as policy. @bylax: "Why don't they listen" Because only idiots work for AMC's at $200/1004 and no one listens to idiots or has any respect for them. Get it? @funrunner Costa Rica-I might join you.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 11:03am)

I guess I have been getting lucky lately. I have been getting good appraisal for a while now. In the begining extremly BAD, now pretty good. I will say that mostly doing Purchases where the Value is STILL TARGETED. WHen it comes to Refis. Value is up for grabs. Although I have only lost one review battle and I think I could have gotten that one as well but the client did not want to fight. ????? I have been sucessful in the transfering of the appraisal as well. Everyone says that you can not transfer the appriasals or that the Bank will not accept them. I agree except if you go at it in a different way.

ByLAX: (June 28, 2010 11:02am)

I feel $300-$400 for your run-of-the-mill appraisal here in California is reasonable. But still, nobody talks about how long it takes to get paid from the AMC's. I know some process fees twice a month(LSI). And then some won't pay you until you call beggin for your money(AppaserLoft). AMC's are here and may never go away. They either need to get their money from the Bank that orders the appraisal. Or,if they want to take a commission from the appraiser, it shouldn't be more than 10% of the fee. Can I get an amen?........

cgappraisals: (June 28, 2010 10:58am)

From what I understand, it will be left up to the new CFPA to decide who can order the appraisal. Maybe the Broker, maybe the borrower, who knows. I hope the AMC monopoly will crumble.

cpappraisal: (June 28, 2010 10:55am)

Frank-I agree. That is not going to go away no matter how you look at it but do you know if there is any focus at all on how appraisers will be getting paid? If appraisers could collect their own fees or get paid what we should be getting paid I think brokers will find that appraisal quality will increase....

stantheman: (June 28, 2010 10:48am)

Clulessdad: Where did you get your info? I don't know the site to read Title 14 for my self. Can anyone help?

frankgaray: (June 28, 2010 10:47am)

brokers will not be able to order appraisals. so, dress it up anyway, its hvcc.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 10:37am)

Frank and Brian-i just read (scanned would be a better word)that 200+ final draft and it does specifically say that the HVCC is sunset. It goes into portability but I did NOT see any mention of brokers not ordering appraisals. NONE. Could it be that they will just let the industry participants decide how best to do it? If true, we are still in the game. PS-Interesting little blurb on RESPA and that the appraisal fee will be separated by what the appraiser got and what the AMC got. Maybe I am missing something here, but it really gives the GAO report that it mandates, a voice in what the real appraisal process will be. Am I too optimistic here?

GODLIKE: (June 28, 2010 10:19am)

I'm lucky to live in Texas where UNDERWATER refers to scuba diving and not houses so that's not a bridge I ever have to cross. Now not having enough equity to reach a 90% refi LTV could be a problem if they took out a 100% loan a year or 2 ago. All I do is call on customers who have an interest rate above a set level which usually means a customer from 2 years ago or more. I only call on the customers more recent than that if they put 10% or more down. Also I never try to sell them anything directly os they don't clam up, I'm always just keeping them informed or trying to help a friend of theirs. My conversations generally begin with "Julie, it's David. How're you guys doing? . . . the kids? . . . BTW had you heard what rates have been doing? It's crazy isn't it? Do you have any friends or family that need a home loan or want to refi? Because you already have a relationship you can beg for business or other unconventional approaches.

cpappraisal: (June 28, 2010 10:02am)

Sorry another typo carrier should have been career...LOL

GODLIKE: (June 28, 2010 9:55am)

The best script is one that doesn't sound like one. Actually the comment on Skills vs. Script was right on. Your script is nothing more than a set of comments you want to work into a CONVERSATION. If you're talking about calling past clients then there is no stilted script necessary you simply begin by picking up where you left off. After a few seconds/minutes/hours of talking you work in the questions you wanted to ask. Every contact is different because every person is different, but you always have the same 2-3 comments/questions.

cpappraisal: (June 28, 2010 9:53am)

Ifowleer24-Yes it seems as that everyone knows except the AMC's...LOL. I have fought with them and FHA for that matter and it does not seem to be a concern to them. I am actually out of the appraisal business for now as I also refuse and can not afford to do appraisals for $200 and it is very hard to find her in CA at least any AMC's that will pay more than that so they have put me out of business. Luckily have another carrier to fall back on but unfortunaly so many other appraisers don't it is sad what I have seen these AMC's do to so many good appraisers.

4marylou: (June 28, 2010 9:45am)

When I call my past clients under water, I always go through the list of options available to them. I also have a flier that I can email them. My list starts with: is your loan owned by FNMA/Freddie?, have you called your lender for a loan mod, would you consider a short pay refi/sale, or a short sale or a foreclosure? Then I may offer to run their credit to do a check up. I hope this helps!

GODLIKE: (June 28, 2010 9:39am)

I'm not surprised. The Democratic congress is trying to cram every bill they can down the throat of America while they still have the mandate. They know that's changing in Nov. The stated purpose of the bills is just the vehicles chosen to let them add all their pet money grubbing projects under the radar. Once again the Dems set up the spending cycle and the Reps come along behind them when the bill comes due.

donblakeley: (June 28, 2010 9:21am)

AMCs and HVCCs all suck. I learned that term in accounting classes. I'm from the government and am here to help you!....Break out the pitch forks, torches, tar and feathers!

Mi Appraiser: (June 28, 2010 9:19am)

HVCC is due to expire Nov 1, 2010. The fact it's not mentioned in the new bill may be good news that it's over, however: Although the Home Valuation Code of Conduct agreement between Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the New York State Attorney General is set to expire on Nov. 1, that doesn’t mean it will disappear on that date. That was the message Jerome Nagy, regulatory policy representative for the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS®, had for Appraisal Committee members gathered Wednesday morning at the 2010 Midyear Legislative Meetings & Expo in Washington, D.C. According to Nagy, there is no requirement for government-sponsored enterprises to remove HVCC guidelines from seller servicer agreements after Nov. 1. He expects its impact will linger well after the expiration date.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 9:14am)

just random thoughts. are the fees that appriasers make to low now or to high before. Before you had what has almost price fixing. STANDARD. Agents would give you the business because of relataionships and as long as you did a good job you kept that relationship. Now you are paying a finders fee which was illegal before. Cost of doing business? Would you have paid a referral fee before. I kow some LO's and Bank's asked for them. Ilegal, but not now. Banks found away to make it legal. Wonder what the Feds would say if we applied that to other fields.

Ol Tom: (June 28, 2010 9:11am)

Just to clarify Van's earlier statement re: DO NOT CALL REGISTRY, the fine has been increased to $16,000 per violation.

Funrunners: (June 28, 2010 9:05am)

well my rant is www.SouthlandAppraisersUnion.com send me your stories, no names just true stories of the problems that have been brought by the ALL Appraisers are CROOKS philosphy..Life , I am consulting on going to Costa Rica. Semper FI

KirkNace: (June 28, 2010 8:59am)

cliffkeith - most people fear and reject that which they choose to not understand. If something is working well for you, God bless, enjoy and do more. If you are seeking to grow and develop skills, it obviously means you don't have what you seek and yes The RESULTS Group does help people to get the RESULTS the choose. Offering a complimentary month is very much in alignment with everything else offered on this site. If anyone would like to participate in an objection handling competition (Frank and Brian play part of borrower we play role of lender) I would welcome it! Bring your scripts, and I will bring skills

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 8:43am)

GUYS, even with HVCC you can still move an appraisal to another bank. Think outside the box. There is some work on your part and it does not always work. but, I have done it and with a bank that did say that they do not accept transfered appraisals. The Banks will not accept them but the AMCs can.

lfowler24: (June 28, 2010 8:43am)

HI CP APPRAISAL: I agree. It is RIDICULOUS. Many AMC's do try to pull the $200 is reasonable. It is not. I refuse to work for any fee less that $300. I know that some cannot but I would love all appraiser's to protest. Regardless, that is why I was wondering if the TBWS guys knew if this bill included any enforcement. From the language I saw it did note that AMC fees were not to be included in determination of a customary fee. Which is an improvement, however it makes me wonder if there would be any better enforcement. FHA, has not stuck up for appraiser's and enforced their fee ruling as they should. I have know many people call into and write to FHA about companies such as RELS, who refuse to follow that ruling. I would like to think that EVERYONE knows that customary fees run from $300-$400 on average. I am sure those who run these companies would not appreciate their salaries being cut in half.

ROHRS MAN: (June 28, 2010 8:39am)

Here is a GREAT script that I just heard.....I was calling to see how life is treating you and to let you know that based upon my RE expertise I am now providing a community service to all my clietns family and friends. So, do you or someone you know owe more on your home than it is currently worth and don't know what to do?

cpappraisal: (June 28, 2010 8:38am)

Sorry meant to say to the AMC's...

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 8:38am)

Appraisers will need to partner up and create their own AMC's to compete with the Bank-owned crap sandwiches that dominate the landscape. "Reasonable and customary fees" could be turned as a weapon against them....if ten appriaser's band together to create their own AMC, they could have an 11th appraiser act as their office manager....that 11th appraiser would be the inside person, answering calls, dealing with originator questions and comments, etc. This "small-guy" AMC could run circles around the big shop on both customer service and price. Appraisers, you guys simply HAVE TO UNITE...... The end....time to lock some deals.

cpappraisal: (June 28, 2010 8:33am)

Ifowler24-That has already been done by FHA and it has not made a difference because the the AMC's a $200 fee is customary.

EK: (June 28, 2010 8:27am)

Hello, ______________(past client). It’s _______________ (agent) calling with _____________ Realty. I’m glad we could connect today! I’m just checking in to see how things are going for you? (Great, sorry to hear that, I understand… just engage the conversation and build rapport wherever it may take you) Then….. You know, ________________ (past client), I find almost everyone I speak with has questions or concerns about today’s real estate market – whether it’s the value of their current home or finding opportunities for great investments. So, as part of my commitment to you, I wanted to reach out to see if I could be a resource for you in any way? (This can be especially effective when they ask, “Oh, wow, how are things for YOU??? To which we respond, “Oh, thanks for asking, we’re doing just fine….” And then proceed with the paragraph above. With great solutions to offer buyers, sellers & investors, you can proceed according to whatever the area of interest may be.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 8:26am)

TO FRANK: You're bringing me down, man. Let's take a glass half full approach here. After Chris Dodd goes away, final rules might be implemented by those who realize the damage that HVCC has caused, and as a result, we might see some make-sense regulations. Either way, the Wicked Witch is dead....let's hope her sister isn't a bigger bitch than she was.

cliffkeith: (June 28, 2010 8:26am)

I would rather see people like KirkNace prevented from using this blog as their own personal billboard for their individual businesses. Answer the question please. You're wasting my time here. My dialog is a proactive approach. Hi this is me. I was looking over your file and with interest rates at an all time low, it time for you to get a new loan. What time works best for you to come in and fill out the necessary paperwork? Is Wednesday at 2pm or Thursday at 10am best for you? If neither work ask when would be a good time and try to work that into your schedule. I figure they already know I have their best interest at heart so tell them what to do. People are secretly begging to be lead. It's my job to lead them down the right path...and I do. To those cry babies who worry about "Do Not Call" lists, you are not doing your job if you worry about stuff like that. Here's a box of Kleenex go blow your nose. Cowboy up and build relationships not fears.

lfowler24: (June 28, 2010 8:20am)

Hi guys!!! I just read in "Appraisal News" that the new agreed upon bill does in fact attempt to help out with appraisal fees and includes language about "customary and reasonable fees" AND in addition notes that “Evidence for such fees may be established by objective third-party information, such as government agency fee schedules, academic studies, and independent private sector surveys. Fee studies shall exclude assignments ordered by known appraisal management companies.” Is this true??? Do you know if it includes any type of regulation for those companies who don't feel the need to follow these rules??? ALSO...Their article stated the below which seems to contradict with your broadcast. Any idea of what I am missing? "HVCC to End! SUNSET. Effective on the date the interim final regulations are promulgated pursuant to subsection (g), the Home Valuation Code of Conduct announced by the Federal Housing Finance Agency on December 23, 2008, shall have no force..." :) Laura

joeys: (June 28, 2010 8:17am)

Script: Hi Mr. Smith, this is Joey Sampaga... How are you doing? The reason for my call is to let you know that I ran into this special deal at a local restaurant where you can buy one get one free. I thought you may be interested. The website is... Oh by the way, if you happen to know anyone looking to buy or refi a home, please provide me with their name and number, I would be more than happy to help them.

sheraldia21: (June 28, 2010 8:17am)

http://www.appraisernews.com/ Click on the link to read the latest issue. Free publication. Several issues are covered. Only wish they had the AMC show their fee and appraisers fee separately.

frankgaray: (June 28, 2010 8:17am)

Technically, HVCC Sunsets, BUT, the broker can't order the appraisal, Soooooo... technically, it stays.

Kromity: (June 28, 2010 8:16am)

Hello sally, With all that’s going on to today I wanted to touch base to see if I can assist you or any friends and family. Are you needing help saving your home or are any friends or family wanting to take advantage of the great rates. I have a number of recourses and information on stopping foreclosure, for those that need it and great loans for buyers wanting to get a great house with the lower fixed rates.

frankgaray: (June 28, 2010 8:16am)

The REAA Show clarifies the HVCC portion of the bill... Here is their link to today's show... http://www.thinkbigworksmall.com/mypage/archive/8074/51420

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 8:13am)

See page 143 regarding appraisal portability:.... ".....‘‘(h) APPRAISAL REPORT PORTABILITY.—Consistent 18 with the requirements of this section, the Board, the 19 Comptroller of the Currency, the Federal Deposit Insur20 ance Corporation, the National Credit Union Administra21 tion Board, the Federal Housing Finance Agency, and the 22 Bureau may jointly issue regulations that address the 23 issue of appraisal report portability, including regulations 24 that ensure the portability of the appraisal report between 25 lenders for a consumer credit transaction secured by a 1- 144 ALB10644 1 4 unit single family residence that is the principal dwelling 2 of the consumer, or mortgage brokerage services for such 3 a transaction...." ....Brian and Steven, with all due respect, IF (big if, looks like this must be part of interim/final rules to have teeth) portability is mandated by law, lenders who put overlays that reject portability will be looking at a class action.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 8:09am)

Interm final regulations: 90 days....See page 143.....therefore, HVCC ends in T -90 days. Again, doesn't mean its successor won't be further regulatory capture, but there's hope.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 8:07am)

http://financialservices.house.gov/ Key_Issues/Financial_Regulatory_Reform/ Final_conference_titles/T14_FINAL.pdf

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 8:06am)

HVCC Sunset: see page 145. http://financialservices.house.gov/Key_Issues/Financial_Regulatory_Reform/Final_conference_titles/T14_FINAL.pdf

KirkNace: (June 28, 2010 7:59am)

VAN: Do not call is another reason to learn skills, as it prohibits you from soliciting. a truly skilled professional never needs to solicit. Others consistently ask you for help. JCollins: If you haven't already done so, request a complimentary month and we will share the 3 things ANY business person should start their day with in order to grow forward.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 7:58am)

LAST COMMENT....I really think the only way you'll regain your independence is replace "broker" with "consumer". Nobody on the Hill gives a rat's ass about mortgage brokers. But, if the argument is shifted to empower consumer choice, and to allow appraisers to conduct business with the general public, instead of being shackled to Big Bank AMCs, that is a much stronger populist argument. The argument has to be for allowing lower consumer costs, and greater consumer choice. Just forget about us brokers, and focus on the consumer, and all of us will be better served. God speed.

cpappraisal: (June 28, 2010 7:57am)

OK...so the HVCC is here to stay no suprise. What about the payment process in the way appraisers have been getting paid. I can promise you that is appraisers start to be able to collect at the door and AMC's collect their own fees seperately appraisals will start to get much better. Believe me I am not doing ANYTHING that I don't have to do for $200 an appraisal. Has anyone heard if there is anything on a federal level that is going to happen in regards to appraisers fees?

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 7:54am)

CONTINUED....Granted, that doesn't mean that HVCC won't be replaced by "HVCC Strikes Back". But it does mean that there is an end date on the current policy. It's in the bill.

Van: (June 28, 2010 7:54am)

Remember the DO NOT CALL REGISTRY folks when contacting previous clients. I believe you may only contact them for 18 months after loan closing. Make sure they are not on the Do Not Call List. It means $11,000 per violation to you. Get your Registry number.

Owl Tree: (June 28, 2010 7:52am)

TO COAPPRAISER: I have the same understanding as you...HVCC as we know it is on the way out. New rules will be put together, and portability is to be allowed. This whole thing still needs to be re-voted on by both the House and the Senate. I might be Don Quixote on this issue, but we can't let this rest as is. Our Congressmen and Senators need to be educated on the impact this has on small business. I'll be reminding them that I am a SINGLE ISSUE VOTER IN THE FALL.

cgappraisals: (June 28, 2010 7:51am)

tbws: Where did you get your info on HVCC not setting, Marc Savitt? I guess since they took out the paragraph where Broker and LO's can order again, they had to take out the HVCC sunset paragraph, otherwise there would be nothing that says Broker or LO's couldn't order again.

cgappraisals: (June 28, 2010 7:41am)

I received email from Appraiser News today saying HVCC is to sunset. They said we have good news for appraisers. The Senate counteroffer still had it in. Why would it be taken out? Anyway, is the Appraiser fee study still in? I thought the committee is leaving it up to the new CFPA to make new Appraisal Independent Regulations. And they have to look into allowing Brokers and LO the ability to order again.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 7:36am)

Kirknace, That sounds like a new twist on scripts. Actually what you just said was a script. Scripts are not truly meant to just be said word for word. But to give someone the tools to be able to lead someone to the conclusion you want. That in itself is learning a skill. It is practice like any other. I do think it is time for a new twist and would always recomend the continuation of education.

mortgageit: (June 28, 2010 7:28am)

I like to do "Annual Financial Checkups" with my borrowers, just like you would with a doctor. I think that if you check in them several times a year either by mail, email or phone, they won't forget about you. Plus, I do there checkups on the anniversary of the loan closing. I have been doing this for 12 years and half of my current pipeline is either referrals or past customers coming back. #1 priority is always Customer Service. If you show concern for them and what they might be missing out on, they will remember you.

CoAppraiser: (June 28, 2010 7:26am)

I am wondering if read it wrong? looks to me like the HVCC is going to be "sunset"??

KirkNace: (June 28, 2010 7:25am)

scripts usually focus on "I, me, our company, my this/that, etc" if you think telemarketing scripts are effective, ask yourself "what was the name of the last telemarketer who called me? what were they selling? did i buy?" If not why would you do what they have proven to you is ineffective???

CoAppraiser: (June 28, 2010 7:23am)

I am copy and pasting this directly from the Bill: ‘‘(j) SUNSET.—Effective on the date the interim final 17 regulations are promulgated pursuant to subsection (g), 18 the Home Valuation Code of Conduct announced by the 19 Federal Housing Finance Agency on December 23, 2008, 20 shall have no force or effect.

KirkNace: (June 28, 2010 7:22am)

jcollins: a script would be in having questions I want to ask, a skill (what we teach others to learn) is in knowing not only the questions that are appropriate for a given person and situation, but also how to go about asking them. Scripts work sometimes in some situations with some people. SKILLS WORK EVERY TIME IN EVERY SITUATION WITH EVERY PERSON. Which would you rather spend time developing? there are NO objections we can't handle, none, zero, nada and we have taught many others to be as skilled, when (now) should you join in?

EdConarchy: (June 28, 2010 7:16am)

The script I am using. It’s simple, to the point and working great!! "Hi Mr. and Mrs. Smith this is Ed Conarchy from Cherry Creek Mortgage. I am not sure if you have seen the headlines, but mortgage interest rates have hit their lowest point ever on record. So I am calling to review your current mortgage with you really quick, to see if it would make financial sense for you guys to refinance and benefit from this historic moment in time. OK?" Ed Conarchy www.EdConarchy.com

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 7:02am)

TD Hawk, I like what you are saying escept, HIGHER RATE is better??? I would rather keep a dollar then to get back 30-50 cent.

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 6:57am)

Kirknace, What are the questions you ask?

jcollins: (June 28, 2010 6:56am)

APPRAISAL PORTABILITY< Just go to the new AMC and see if the Appraiser is on their List. If so order the new appraisal as an update. DONE.

KirkNace: (June 28, 2010 6:39am)

Script? - NO!!! Skills? - YES, Scripts are an attempt for you to force "YOUR" conversation on someone else, people don't like this!!! Skills include developing the ability to ask a series of logical questions based on the conversation you are sharing with another - people like this and when you are effective people will say things like "Could you please call my friend and help them?" If more people asked you to call their friends, and few people gave you resistance . . . would you make more calls? go to http://www.TRG100Club.com for a complimentary month, I will sponsor it, and start learning how to build skills, not memorize scripts!!!

mdtscoates: (June 28, 2010 6:35am)

Have you thought about getting a Twitter account and FB fan page?

Your Favorite "Hood": (June 28, 2010 6:25am)

Follow up on under water clients: I think you hit the nail on the head! "Hi, Joe. I understand things have been tough for you financially. I may have a few resources that could be of help, may I ask a few questions?" If it appears that they are likely to lose their home I'll work with them in communicating with their lender for help and sending them to my site, www.CincyHomeHelp.com. Afterwards I'll follow up with, "You know, you aren't alone in this. Who else do you know that might have need of this information?" Help the client first, then allow the client to help a friend. Jim, Your Favorite "Hood"!

DanSchweihs: (June 28, 2010 6:19am)

The nominal interest rate is 4.75% but since home prices are deflating at 5% per year, the inflation (deflation) adjusted rate is 9.75%. Quite high. Maybe buyer’s caution is justified by these high inflation adjusted rates. The buyer might be actually be right. HVCC appraisals will keep prices low or continue the deflation. An appraiser has never put their E&O insurance policy at risk by valuing a home too low. There is no incentive to value a home fairly and it will be very difficult for appraisers to allow home prices to increase. The continued tightening of underwriting standards continues to reduce the number of buyers. And foreclosures will continue as long as strategic default continues to make economic sense. The buyer might be actually be right to wait at these high inflation (deflation) adjusted rates.

TD Hawk: (June 28, 2010 5:54am)

Way, way back in the day, banks made their money as part of the overall rate (i.e. there were no fees). Then some wise soul figured out they could lower their rate offering by itemizing some fees (profit), duping borrowers into believing it was a better deal. Now we're going back the other way. As long as there's a mortgage interest deduction, a higher rate is better for protecting more of your income (assuming you itemize). If the M.I. deduction is repealed, you really have to question home ownership, especially given market value/equity drops out of anyone's control. We could argue that one all day but true hardcore money guys don't own non-cash flow property, they keep their money liquid and earning. They opt out of spending on taxation and property upkeep in favor of ROI and access to cash.

ByLAX: (June 28, 2010 5:26am)

As an Appraiser I can live with change. Okay HVCC is here. All I ask is that you give me time to do a credible report, Pay me a fair and reasonable fee, and pay me within 30 days. Why won't the AMC's pay once the report is accepted? And why won't anybody talk about why they don't pay?

gardn58: (June 28, 2010 5:24am)

You said HVCC has been left out of finance reform, but you haven't said why. Supposedly everyone has been working so hard on getting HVCC repealed. Is there another plan, or is it just going to be ignored. What about the the fact that it ends on it's own in November. Please be more specific.

ben: (June 28, 2010 5:03am)

The 3% cap thing is Great Long Term! When Rates go back up to normal- we will always be putting them into higher rates, so that when Rates go down a little we will always have Refi's! I love Idiot's, er I mean the Gov't looking after the consumer!

Jersey Girl: (June 28, 2010 4:42am)

I doubt portability will ever happen. Even now we get requests from Client B asking for appraisals to be transferred from Client A...and we try to explain to the Client B that appraisers cannot change the client name on a report - but that HUD will accept the original (FHA) appraisal which was done for Client A...even though it is in a different lender's name. The new lender Client B still wants the report in their name.

Clulessdad: (June 28, 2010 4:17am)

F&B-Do you have the final language of the bill? If so, can you post the link?

jack: (June 28, 2010 3:16am)

If you discover that the past client is unable to refinance and may be a short sale candidate, refer them to a Realtor partner that understands short sales and can get them approved. Then in 2-3 years your past client will be ready to buy again and will remember you as the one who saved them from foreclosure and saved their credit. This will result in referral to others and only makes sense to give referrals to your Realtors who give you referrals. All too often referrals tend to be a one way street with mortgage originators.