It's Official. Wells Stops Short Sale Extensions - 10.04.10
Today's Poll: Is slowing down foreclosures in the best interest of our industry and recovery?
Yes
No
Rate this Program
mswrightrealtor: (October 07, 2010 8:45am)
You think that not giving extensions on short sale is a good thing? After waiting 9 months for short sale approval, we get an approval that is good for 10 days and has a $279/day per diem to the Buyer for delay on closing. Do you want to have to do that loan in 10 days? Remember, if the loan causes the delay in closing, who needs to reimburse the Buyer for the per diem? Hmmmm...this is happening, guys! No extension equals dead deal!
Fl Mortg Lady : (October 05, 2010 3:11am)
Happening in FL: Modifications are not working because at the end of the day, homeowners realize they are given a lower payment, but the upside down balance is still there. Ultimately, their loan is still the highest on the block, where all of their neighbors are short selling. Homeowners see themselves as eventually needing to short sell as well. This has caused strategic defaults/foreclosures, where homeowners see no way of getting any equity, and stay in the home not paying while awaiting foreclosure, thinking this is the only way to gain back equity never to be seen. Not right, we know. If the banks would write down current home loans to market value, just as they are approving short lower acceptance prices, people would stay in their homes. Why is it that the banks accept a lower payoff when they are forced to accept it through a short sale, but they don't consider lowering the balance for their good paying current portfolio of loans?
deshelman: (October 04, 2010 8:51pm)
Perhaps this will explain it all. Recorded January 14,2010. Is there an echo in here? Still hearing this today. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/261785/january-14-2010/the-word---honor-bound
5pence: (October 04, 2010 7:32pm)
Hey Joe Parsons, no disagreement?
5pence: (October 04, 2010 7:31pm)
Don't gloss over, like the TV likes to do, crime pays. Our futures depend on it. Do I get a gun or do I expect civil harmony? The banks own over 5 million homes and are foreclosing on 90%
5pence: (October 04, 2010 6:51pm)
They need slaves in debt. A fully monetized system means they don't have a job and the juice to take away all the talent
5pence: (October 04, 2010 6:48pm)
Inflated values because the Fed flooded the market with dough. Money meant nothing, they got the unemployed into mortgage debt. Fk em
5pence: (October 04, 2010 6:45pm)
Guys, they set it up so everyone will lose their home
5pence: (October 04, 2010 6:42pm)
lol donald
donaldtimms: (October 04, 2010 6:04pm)
I am very curious if Frank's jewelry is good or bad for business. I am an originator in Callifornia, and I know if i ever wore a gold bracelet on one wrist, my friends, colleagues and clients would dis-own me. Now, if I also wore a colored bracelet on the other wrist, PLUS 2 gold rings on one hand and my wedding band on the other, well, I think would be banned from playing golf at my club, PLUS perhaps worse! Really, can it get any cheesier?
5pence: (October 04, 2010 5:32pm)
I'm out of my home and my career was stolen. I'm an average example of what our representatives did for us. Debt to last generations. Think. Get rid of the criminals that think our taxes are there for their leisure
5pence: (October 04, 2010 5:22pm)
If any of you feel any moral obligation to do right, remember that they voted in TARP and the bailouts against our will. In a less civiized society, that would be treason. Life long democrat now voting them out. They can not win after such a treacherous betrayal
dkson2: (October 04, 2010 5:17pm)
Let's face it..the banks and the gov are not acting in our, the people who fund their very paychecks, favor. This is a strategic move before the election to make us believe that they(the lawmakers)actually care about us more than themselves. Maybe we will trust(?) them now and vote for them in 6 weeks. Fat chance. Vote every incumbent out of office. They don't deserve a second chance.
barryl: (October 04, 2010 4:14pm)
the director of the peanut gallery job has been fulfilled. (wow that was quick) there was another posting in the exotics... it said 10 for 2hours, "great, sounds like a good deal, "Are post dated checks acceptable!!
5pence: (October 04, 2010 4:05pm)
The system is fixed, profit seekers are in control
5pence: (October 04, 2010 4:04pm)
MiamiRealtor - zerohedge says foreclosures could take up to 10 years and all banks will join in with GMAC, BofA and Chase in halting foreclosures. Chase told me unless you can catch up within 2 months of payments, no payments count. We bailed them out. Why can't they give zero interest like they get from the Fed? 2%? Greedy banksters
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:59pm)
Vote out everybody that voted for "crime pays" Do you really need more moral conviction? All incumbents out
MiamiRealtor: (October 04, 2010 3:47pm)
I agree with TXrealtor, Shortsale, and Dogchapman! 25 years in my home, never late, but now can't keep up. I've gone through my savings, my IRA what IRA...?), I can't sell my home(thanks to the media) buyers are still tire kicking, bank's arn't lending, credit card company's have taken us to 30% intersts rates... don't get me started. My P & I is in the $1,800 range, but property tax and insurance has taken me well over $4,000. 3, 8 month short sales that didn't close. 1 slam dunk with buyer that had great credit, income, assets, no short sale/REO, 4 months and a day to close, should have taken 30 days! I've been in the business since '79 and thought I'd seen almost everything. It wasn't this bad in the late 70's/early 80's when intrest was at 15%!
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:36pm)
Ohh, For Randy, he wants real names - Ed Connor, 120 State Ave NE, #263, Olympia, Wa. 98501
barryl: (October 04, 2010 3:29pm)
hey 5p, there was a classified add in the newspaper, looking for career minded individual for unique position as director of the peanut gallery, maybe you should put in your resume!
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:27pm)
This country could be almost heaven on earth, seriously. But the military industrial complex needs sacrifice. Do we need them and how big they've grown? We could have the best educated kids on earth, and the best healthcare, infrastructure, social security and the best proof of life ever. But the military industrial complex and corporate profit seekers steal it all away. They are after our social security - watch. The New Deal of Roosevelt is abut to be disemboweled. BTW, happy birthday to me - 58. 10-4 over and out
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:04pm)
The worst terrorists the world has ever seen is the financial terrorists that bombed us, many out of exitence. The "Empire" preys on differences rather than seeking commonalities. Innocents pay with their lives but the Empire doesn't care. Innocents are tortured. War is declared for an awkward glance and childrens lives are lost. Instead of taking care of it's own, the Empire seeks expansion at any costs. The "Empire" is to big to fail. The "Empire" is dead. Vote out the criminals
6pence: (October 04, 2010 3:00pm)
Cure, Crap! You can call it crap, because the truth, can't be heard, as long as you turn your back to it and repeat whatever heals you wallet.
6pence: (October 04, 2010 3:00pm)
Cure, Crap! You can call it crap, because the truth, can't be heard, as long as you turn your back to it and repeat whatever heals you wallet.
kkric: (October 04, 2010 3:00pm)
Why is it that when the banks violate the lending laws, it's just a technicality; but when you and I do, it's fraud?
6pence: (October 04, 2010 2:52pm)
Cure, take of the BS glasses. You profit when you sell our homes out from under us. You have not been dragged through the banks sewers. Why did the bank put 2 families in modifications if they were not elligible. 2 all american are in foreclosure following requests for fixed loans. 2 families will be homeless, because of bank errors and mistakes. 2 veteran families never missed a payment or were late. Members of these family fought in war zones so you could call them deadbeat homeowners.
michael: (October 04, 2010 2:49pm)
In the good old days, the banks wouldn't give you a loan if you couldn't afford it. Not so the last decade. The banks saw that they could make more money by giving every Tom, Dick and Miguel a loan whether they could afford it or not. The the banks found a new way to make more money - buy bundling and selling the loans. So now most people don't even know who owns there loans and the people don't know who are foreclosing against them. Don't you think the people have the right to know?
6pence: (October 04, 2010 2:35pm)
Short sale, commom sense is not on tne table. The investor make more money working against the homeowner. If we knew the investors, they would find it a little more difficult to ignore the situation we have been put into, to see us struggling to do the right thing, could possibly lead to some compassion and that does not put money into their pockets.
5pence: (October 04, 2010 2:21pm)
woah is me, the love of money has stricken my heart and mind with a grave illness. When I had money, I had God. Now my money has disappered and my God is gone. My only salvation from this pergatory is more money so that I might love my God even more and not feel deserted. Woah is me. My God, money, does not come. I am a lame pusher with tons of money but there is no more juice for the game. I've lost my God and am left alone in this shadow existance. Woah is me. Purgatory for lack of money to buy heaven. "Wow. Sure deserves mercy ehh? lol"
5pence: (October 04, 2010 2:13pm)
jihad their asses
5pence: (October 04, 2010 2:09pm)
Come on, the worlds financial systems were blow up by terrorists.
5pence: (October 04, 2010 2:06pm)
TREASON This word imports a betraying, treachery, or breach of allegiance. The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court. Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour. In English law, high treason was punishable by being hanged, drawn and quartered (men) or burnt at the stake (women), or beheading (royalty and nobility)
barryl: (October 04, 2010 1:56pm)
income can be earned in any market, and its up to our industry to prove it, lets go Giants!!
barryl: (October 04, 2010 1:54pm)
so now your in the phone booth!! enough with all the bullsh-t already!!
5pence: (October 04, 2010 1:49pm)
Calls were coming in to the government at the rate of 100 to 1 against the bailouts. They did it anyway. Treason
5pence: (October 04, 2010 1:47pm)
6pence, follow the money to it's source - that's where corruption begins. Don't blame those that don't know any better. Seriously, we are going to lose all the good talent in America if too big to fail is allowed to stand and if those that voted for crime pays (TARP, bailouts) are allowed to continue, to be voted back in. Voting for crime pays should be called treason
cure: (October 04, 2010 1:46pm)
You guys are wrong!If we who are left standing in the mortgage industry are not looking out for Mr and Ms Homeowner, who the heck is going to? The Federal government punted. The banks? Their greed continues unchecked, with unbelieveable tactics of obstructing mods and making even refinancing nearly impossible for ordinary folks hoping against hope not to end up underwater as this whole housing economy seems headed to the toilet... just like your comments today. I'll be spending my time doing things other than listening to this crap.
6pence: (October 04, 2010 1:36pm)
frankgaray,heck,I'd like to take your view and.... It is not about you, or what you did. You are an insider and I'll bet we are not talking about you primary residence. You better than I, know sometime it's best to walk away. It took me awhile before it sunk in, if you owe more than it is worth...even then homeowners have worked hard to get their home the way they want them. People hope and pray for some crazy last minute miracle. You know thats not going to happen, but they don't. Why not try to work out an inovative plan. Why not try to help our fellow american live their dreams. Why must you trample on fellow humans to get ahead? Remember when the car salesman was the scum of the earth, actually they were trying to make a living, but didn't care if anyone got hurt. Now it is bankers, investor and real estate agents...they don't care who gets hurt as long as they can purchase their second and third homes. These are the true scum of the earth. They are lying cowards.
barryl: (October 04, 2010 1:29pm)
thats a brunnette!
5pence: (October 04, 2010 1:21pm)
On a side note, did you hear about the poor blonde that locked her keys in the car? It took her an hour to get out
gcall: (October 04, 2010 1:21pm)
AZ --I'm also in AZ. With you 100%. As said earlier to TBWS crew--in overall theory I agree can't have people living in houses free forever. Yet for those of us that have tried to help people with mods and short sales and know all the tricks the Lenders pull we can have no sympathy for them. They have not been held accountable for any of their actions. As pointed out by many, it is outrageous that the Lender has caused the delays in the short sale/mod and then can go ahead and foreclose. If the borrower has not tried to cooperate, that is one thing but where they are trying all they can and the Lender can run rough shod over them--including producing phoney foreclosure docs just should not be allowed in USA. Present abuse and manipulation under a protective government shield fits in "cold war" era of Russia.
gcall: (October 04, 2010 1:20pm)
AZ --I'm also in AZ. With you 100%. As said earlier to TBWS crew--in overall theory I agree can't have people living in houses free forever. Yet for those of us that have tried to help people with mods and short sales and know all the tricks the Lenders pull we can have no sympathy for them. They have not been held accountable for any of their actions. As pointed out by many, it is outrageous that the Lender has caused the delays in the short sale/mod and then can go ahead and foreclose. If the borrower has not tried to cooperate, that is one thing but where they are trying all they can and the Lender can run rough shod over them--including producing phoney foreclosure docs just should not be allowed in USA. Present abuse and manipulation under a protective government shield fits in "cold war" era of Russia.
barryl: (October 04, 2010 1:18pm)
"what does not kill you in life, will only make you stronger in life" many might have fell into the rags, but with a fight, with "failure not being an option" riches shall return. And that includes each and everyone. "from rags to riches" a song by the king of rock n roll.
5pence: (October 04, 2010 1:16pm)
6pence. I'm flattered. that's about a dime
5pence: (October 04, 2010 1:04pm)
If crime pays we will lose our best upcoming talents to those ends. The cure for cancer can wait - there's profit to be made. Too big to fail is founded on and invites crime into it's folds. We are talking serious sht here people
5pence: (October 04, 2010 12:59pm)
Profit at any cost seekers should not be in control of the valuation process. That's insanity. The banks played their cards and showed themselves to be selfish greedy bastards and brokers and appraisers have to pay? Where does the lunacy end. It ends with voting out those that voted for TARP and the bailouts. I'm bi-partison in my disgust
5pence: (October 04, 2010 12:52pm)
I'm an appraiser, the banks stole my 20 year career and soon they're going to take my home. Never late on a payment once. Never. The bankster bullies get to run things and Fannie pleads innocent all the while hiring lawyers booked for fraud.
SHORT SALE: (October 04, 2010 12:42pm)
I wonder how things would look if the homeowner had direct contact with the investor. I wonder how the investor would handle a homeowner who has made 6 years of ontime payments is $100k under water and wants to stay in their home but needs a break in their payment for a year. Common sense tells me that it makes mathmatical sense to work with that homeowner as in the longrun the investor will make much more money. This is short sided thinking on the part of the banks and it is causing a ripple effect for the homeowners who can afford to make their payments but because of the decining values chose to just stop. We bailed out the wrong people.
thevinehouse: (October 04, 2010 12:23pm)
"Why?" (part 2) - Frank & Brian you asked "Why?" It is a basic tenet of banking not to forgive any debt. This is the real reason "why" we can't get ourselves out of this mess. Seems logical in a perfect world - even in a less than perfect world, right? However, this is one of those times that someone needs to step in to save the banks (and us) from themselves and their "tenets" (again). And NOT the way the Feds did this last time! Clearly, this is an exceptional situation, one that cleans up the "bail out". Admittedly, this will be politically difficult, but absolutely necessary to an economic recovery! My guess is, the current administration will never see another term if something extraordinarily positive isn't done about the housing crisis soon. As everyone particpating in the back and forth today seems to agree - the economy will follow suit!
Chukster: (October 04, 2010 11:57am)
ONLY 29 MORE DAYS TO VOTE THE MORONS OUT IN D.C. GET WITH THE PROGRAM PEOPLE.
barryl: (October 04, 2010 11:56am)
how about cnn, then we can all get fired!
Chukster: (October 04, 2010 11:55am)
YOU GUYS SHOULD GET IN TOUCH WITH FOX NEWS CABLE AND LET THE WHOLE COUNTRY REALLY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.
TXrealtor: (October 04, 2010 11:43am)
Right on Shortsale & Dogchapman. Sorry TBWS guys, you're off on this one - it's easy for ya'll to say don't pay, don't stay when you have a regular paycheck coming in & job security. The problem is the lousy economy & no jobs! People feel very uncertain about the times we live in now. Banks need to work with homeowners and keep them in the homes. We already have an 8-11 month supply of homes in our current market. We do not need more (empty) houses coming on to the already heavily saturated inventory, sitting, falling into disrepair, dropping property value. There are not enough buyers out there to buy them or buy them quick enough! All I can say is this is FUBAR! Follow the money, it leads right to the greedy bankers & their NWO agenda!
barryl: (October 04, 2010 11:35am)
pissed off + pissed on = 0 structured default+"lets make up the allonge=(-0 mods+jobs= less foreclosures
5pence: (October 04, 2010 11:26am)
If crime continues to pay that is where we are going to lose our best talent.
5pence: (October 04, 2010 11:18am)
It's simple. Vote out all that voted for "crime pays". I mean, really - crime pays? Not a quick solution, but a step away from the rape of America. If you're in NY, Cuomo has to lose
SoldinOregon: (October 04, 2010 11:17am)
Wells & Company should explain to their investors that it was their internal systems that caused it to take 6 months to close a short sale on a home and not the buyers or seller. Also, Short Sales command a higher price than a Bank Owned Property so how can an investor recoup more money? Lastely, once a property is taken back, it takes months to get it re-listed and sold.
KASSGA: (October 04, 2010 11:14am)
Come on you guys! We gave the bank billions in bailouts to stay afloat and they were suppose to help the consumer who they made all these questionable loans to. You guys were making fun of the Congressman from California (I think) the other day for proposing legislation to modify evewryone loan regardless of value or credit, and isn't that what we did for the banks? If they would just have done this in the beginning then the recession really would be over probably. We all know the economy is not going to recover until the housing market does. How much would unempoyment improve if we put all the people with jobs related to the housing market back to work? The banks took our money and are still running the show like the Wall Street Fat Cats they've always been. I say let the consumer/homeowner win one for a change!
6pence: (October 04, 2010 10:57am)
NOW YOU HAVE REALLY PISSED ME OFF. When are foreclosures better for anyone outside the industry? It makes sense, if you cannot make you mortgage payment, foreclosure is one solution. What if the homeowner(HO)can afford his mort. pay. and never refused to make the payment or claimed he could not make payment. Do people buy homes so they neglect responcibilities and end up in foreclosure? Remove your rose colored glasses and look at this foreclosure mess from a homeowners perspective, instead of the moneygrubbers. The only people who do not profit and actually lose financially are the homeowners. Bankers, investers, foreclosure agents, short sale agents all make money. If these people did not profit, they sure as hell would work out plans to keep homeowner in their homes, and work out repayment plans to keep the cash flowing into their pockets. Why are you so quick to throw out homeowners and their families? Do you guys have vacant rental properties? It is all about self enrichments
6pence: (October 04, 2010 10:56am)
NOW YOU HAVE REALLY PISSED ME OFF. When are foreclosures better for anyone outside the industry? It makes sense, if you cannot make you mortgage payment, foreclosure is one solution. What if the homeowner(HO)can afford his mort. pay. and never refused to make the payment or claimed he could not make payment. Do people buy homes so they neglect responcibilities and end up in foreclosure? Remove your rose colored glasses and look at this foreclosure mess from a homeowners perspective, instead of the moneygrubbers. The only people who do not profit and actually lose financially are the homeowners. Bankers, investers, foreclosure agents, short sale agents all make money. If these people did not profit, they sure as hell would work out plans to keep homeowner in their homes, and work out repayment plans to keep the cash flowing into their pockets. Why are you so quick to throw out homeowners and their families? Do you guys have vacant rental properties? It is all about self enrichments
Joebob: (October 04, 2010 10:55am)
All but one of the deals I've done in the past year have had to have an extension prior to funding. Most of them were extensions to delay foreclosure. And EVERY SINGLE one of them were honored. (Wells included). Now, if anyone in the know inquires about the leinholder of a possible short sale deal...they'll think twice about even showing it, much less about actually submitting an offer. AND, I personally will be checking carefully to see what deals I'm willing to commit time/money on should they be Wells deals. I'm personally all in favor of foreclosing for cause ~400 days to foreclose is unconsionable at best. But the games the banks are playing, and the things they are getting away with are positively criminal. AND....AND....to get a deal down to the wire and lose it for lack of a couple days or week's extension is bollocks!
hotred: (October 04, 2010 10:37am)
goodgriefamericia.ning.com
hotred: (October 04, 2010 10:34am)
I don't agree with your issues on move out or make a house payment. You really need to study more about what is really going on in the foreclosure mess.People do try and make loan mods. and really do want to stay in there homes,the banks are not playing fair and have themselves made this mess we are in. Do not put the blame on the homeowners. I know many homeowners with horribale sade storys of the games played by this banks. Loan mod nightmares! Think about this if the mortgage Co./banks really tryed to modifie theses loans where would we be now? They where given the funds to help everyone, why did it not happen for everyone? I do understand not everyone wants to saty in there home,but for those that do,its a crime what has happened,don't hide from what is happening,there dirty work is comeing out and you guys need to wake up and smell the coffee,I know its all about money and brokers & realtors are hurting,but read some court docs. and see the homeowners are not makeing this up.
AZRealAgent: (October 04, 2010 10:22am)
Agree with many of the comments. - We're out on the firing line here - struggling to make a living in one of the worst hit markets in the world! Most of the people we talk to DON'T want to lose their homes - have tried and failed through a difficult "we lost your paperwork AGAIN" - loan mod process - "rejected" - "time has run out" - "file is closed" "incomplete file" ... responses. We have helped many sell their homes - with dignity - in the short sale process. The gratitude they have - is inexpressible. They have suffered. Have lived a lifetime working hard paying their bills, moving from one home to another. Now that's all gone for them - yet they are grateful to move on from this, rent a little apartment, sell what they can and hopefully restore their credit to own a home again one day soon. Americans don't give up - we give up on them. Don't blame the people who have worked hard to make this country what it is/was.
CharlesinMD: (October 04, 2010 10:00am)
So, it's Potter's Field or Bailey's Park. Cause and effect - Barney Frank, et al
JosephNemchik: (October 04, 2010 10:00am)
I have followed you guys for a while now and for the most part you guys are right on. But this foreclosure one you did is nothing short of ridiculous ! You could not be more wrong ! The banks have been fraudulent with documents. They have secretaries swearing to be executives of lenders they are not. They are breaking the law ! They should go to jail, not be allowed to foreclose. I have clients that have submitted docs three and four times for a modification and the bank still jerking them around. People try to send payments in and the lender send it back and refuse to take it. This is not just because people aren't paying their payments, please ! This is because the lenders don't give a darn. They want to foreclose. In many cases the banks/lenders didn't record the mortgages and notes. They sold mortgages and didn't do the proper paperwork. They purposely didn't record with the Comptroller's Office because they didn't want to pay the taxes and fees, etc. They should get off free?
barryl: (October 04, 2010 9:49am)
not yet.
thevinehouse: (October 04, 2010 9:42am)
Frank, do you really believe,"If you can't keep a house - lose it..."???Are you reading the responses you are getting?If you only believe 25% of what these people are saying,there is a huge injustice going on here.Every situation is different,but the one constant is that the lending industry (mostly banks) and their co-conpirators have and are breaking the law while the American economy and many millions of peoples lives have been destroyed.To preserve our industries(real estate and lending)and OUR economy,we must keep people in their homes!It may seem an overwhelming task,but that's what the banks want you to believe.Apparently,you and Brian are giving in and that is really sad,man. As president of our local association of Realtors,I hear the same examples of this injustice every week over and over and I,too, just wish it would go away,but I've the big picture firmly in my mind!If ever there was a situation that needed to be properly addressed, this is it!Lets not bail on homeowners!
MV: (October 04, 2010 9:40am)
I don't Agree with you guys; Oct 4 Video I think it would be better if goverment force lenders to make happen the modificactions. There is nothing that borrowers has to prove lenders are lenders that need to solve the problem that they created.
Owl Tree: (October 04, 2010 9:29am)
Here's another suggestion: empower loan originators to help with the process. Our NMLS designations should carry some weight. Allow loan originators to get involved in loss mitigation, with the blessing of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and be fairly compensated for their efforts. It's high time that a toxic GSE is created to help unwind this mess, with the assistance of true mortgage professionals. Instead, we've got a situation where giant banks are half-assing it with unqualified, understaffed servicing teams.
SoCalBroker: (October 04, 2010 9:21am)
Lastly... Are you freakin' kidding? Negate "due process?" Our country was founded on these principals. Whatever you think about the people being forclosed on, how dare you suggest that these banks are above the law and that they should be allowed to proceed in foreclosing on all these properties. Just because YOU think it is the best way to recover from this unimaginable market? Like it or not, in THIS country, we are ALL expected to follow the rules, even if from time to time a "bad" guy gets off on a technicality. It's better than the opposite, and its what makes this country better than any other on the planet.
Owl Tree: (October 04, 2010 9:20am)
Insofar as appraisers are using vacant crack houses to comp to my client's property, then yes, I'm in favor of freezing foreclosures......but an even better idea would be to prohibit the use of foreclosures and short sales as appraisal comparables. Foreclosures and short sales need to be quarantined in order to repair an already critically-injured appraisal process. In the good old days, when I actually was able to speak with a trusted appraiser, I could now navigate these issues. But now, thanks to HVCC, my primary contact for appraisals is someone who used to work the drive through for Jack In The Box, hence the current problems.
oissoc: (October 04, 2010 9:17am)
You are such a sold out!! and you have no idea how the banks are breaking every law that deals with UCC and handling of the notes... if you dont know why law suits are coming up; because you dont know the law... then you should be asking yourself why and read the law.. then talk...
MrsShrek: (October 04, 2010 9:17am)
Bad call. It is called Due Process. The Banks have been playing games with due process. You wrongly assume that all borrowers are not making payments. Many payments were not correctly calculated. Maybe you need a rubber stamped foreclosure on your home to have more empathy.
jdw415: (October 04, 2010 9:15am)
Los Angeles Discussion on Wells Fargo NOT extending Short Sale, and Wells Fargo doing new loan. Our office had that exact situation. Borrower has 750+ FICO, 30% down, very slow, unresponsive LO for new loan. Loan funded by Wells Fargo on last day of Short Sale approval, schedule to record following day Wells Fargo refused to record. We found out that Wells origination and Wells Short sale departments do NOT communicate with one another. Buyer moved on, not sure if house was forclosed on by Wells or not. Horrible experience, buyer went to Well Fargo for loan believing it would expedite the new loan and short sale process, WRONG!!!
SoCalBroker: (October 04, 2010 9:03am)
Just what do think will happen if the foreclosure flood gates open? There is a mass of qualified buyers waiting to snap up each and everyone? For real? We have entire communities that are vacant because of the foreclosure machine. Want to guess what that is doing to the parks and schools in that neighborhood. Then the "investors" come in and buy them all up and turn entire communities in to rentals. Want to guess what has happened to the "pride of ownership?" There is no sense of community, yards are dead, cars are parked on them, crime is up, property tax revenues are down, streets are in decline, the people who were actually able to keep their homes now want to leave and can't sell them for a decent price because the neighborhood is in such decline... Just making the divide between the "haves" and the "have nots" bigger by the day. Bad call on this one guys.
tbryan: (October 04, 2010 9:01am)
while the truth is "if you don't make your payment, you lose your house" is true, The "How" the banks are doing some foreclosures is contributing to the problem. If a homeowner gets behind in payments the bank will refuse to accept any further payments, and adds huge fees to the amount due which makes it far more difficult, if not impossible for the homeowner to retain the home. I am in agreement that they have a right to demand the past due balance, I even agree that they should be able to recoup costs associated with the breach, but think it should be illegal for them to refuse to accept payments that are offered by the homeowner.
Utah Mortgage&Real Estate Guy: (October 04, 2010 8:56am)
Story Continued... Borrower made 14 months of Loan Modification payments when the Notice of Default filed by Bank of America. This borrower works for a Federal Judge. Only with the Judges connections was the borrower able to get an upper management person of BofA to talk to her about the situation. When BofA Modifies a borrowers loan, they create a NEW LOAN #. However, a majority if not all of this borrowers payments were applied to her OLD LOAN # (purchase money loan). Because the OLD LOAN was modified (as it stated in their system), a payment could not be credited to that account. BofA system did not recognize the NEW LOAN # (after the mod) SO, all 14 payments the borrower made were credit to the OLD LOAN Escrow Account. Only after 3 months worth of screaming and a willing to help Federal Judge was this borrower able to get Bank of America to recognize their mistakes and fix this borrowers situation. I don't believe her credit has been fixed yet, but the NOD has been retracted.
SoCalBroker: (October 04, 2010 8:54am)
Shame on you two for judging from your platform. How does it help? You don't know the circumstances of everyone and you aren't the economic genius' you portend to be so just knock it off. Don't forget that the people who turn in to your "daily" are the group that have been the most disproportionally affected by this downturn. And most of them are or were homeowners.
epensabene: (October 04, 2010 8:50am)
Banks are becoming unrealistic sellers and Buyers are becoming terrify. Where do we go from now? Just keep on enjoying the videos Thinkbigworksmall, good info, thanks
Utah Mortgage&Real Estate Guy: (October 04, 2010 8:48am)
Next Modification/Foreclosure Problem: Bank of America 'offers loan modifications to homeowners that are CURRENT' with their payments. If you accept a loan mod through BofA, you will be put on a trial period, if you make the MODIFIED payment, THEY WILL REPORT YOU 30 DAYS LATE EVERY MONTH YOU DO NOT MAKE THE ORIGINAL PRE-LOAN MOD PAYMENT. Furthermore, there are currently 156 Cases in the State of Utah where borrowers have been making the MODIFIED payment for 6 to 12 months and Bank of America has FILED a NOTICE OF DEFAULT on these borrowers. 156 cases where people were CURRENT on their loan, accepted modified terms from Bank of America, made every payment as agreed upon, now have 6 to 12 months of 30,60,90 late payments on their credit, AND, AND, have had Notice of Defaults filed on their home. The 156 cases in the State of Utah is ALL I know about, how many are out there that we haven't heard about? One of these borrower that I know very well...to be continued next post...
SoCalBroker: (October 04, 2010 8:45am)
You guys are dead wrong on this one. Wall Street and the big banks created this nightmare. There were NO choices for the consumer. If you didn't buy a house and continued to rent, your home was sold out from under you by the owner. If you did purchase, the prices were so completely over inflated, you had no choice but to pay big, and get a crappy loan. People have since lost jobs and income in record numbers. It's not so simple as, "You don't make your payments, you lose your house." What happens to the current owner? You may think that he has all sorts of money saved, but that is assuming his income remained the same and he made a choice not to make his payments. More likely, he lost his job or some other unavoidable circumstance caused his income to shrink or disapear. So saving money each month??? What money? If all these homeowners still had the income, and just stopped making their payments, either there would be more people saving, or spending... neither of which is true.
frankgaray: (October 04, 2010 8:42am)
I get the fact that the economy has caused people to lose their jobs, and that sucks. Here's my view: If you're in a tough spot due to reduced income or loss of job or whatever, and you can modify - do it. Heck I did it. But if you can do it, then make your payment - I'm making mine. If you can't keep a house - lose it. I did. Lost a condo in Truckee Ca. But using stall tactics, just to stay in your home as long as you can while saving money let's not forget, is not helping our industry or our recovery. Move on.
W.R.Buchanan: (October 04, 2010 8:41am)
Frank&Brian: I agree that if you don't pay your house payment you should loose your house, BUT if you started your loan at 5% and it is now 9% and you can't afford the payment because the interest went Ape, Then wouldn't it be in the best interest of everybody concerned to just rewrite the load to 5% fixed and keep the guy in place? It probably would as long as the guy could make the payment. If he can't then foreclose. However the banks aren't willing to rewrite the loans because there is no "back side money" for them if they do and there is if they foreclose. In other words it is "more profitable" for them to foreclose. Without bailout money in play I bet they would be restructuring alot more loans down to more realistic interest rates. I saw one the other day that started at 3.5% and was now 9.25%. This guy got sold a bad loan in the first place! He got stuck with it, he lost his ass, and the house is gone. He could have made the payments work at 5%. just sayin'
Utah Mortgage&Real Estate Guy: (October 04, 2010 8:40am)
First of All, the WHY? are banks trying to push the foreclosures through NOW. It is an easy answer. THE FED IS COVERING UP TO 98% OF ALL LOSSES IN ANY MORTGAGE/PROPERTY TRANSACTION IF THE SERVICING BANK CAN PROVE THEY 'WORKED WITH' THE CUSTOMER TO MODIFY/REFINANCE/ETC. The faster the loan gets foreclosed on, the faster they get most or all of their money back. Why wait 30+ years to get your money back if you can take a small loss now and use the cash you do receive to recoup the potential profits over the next 20+ years. TIME IS MONEY. Take losses now but use the money to make future profits and the Net Tangible Benifit is Profit.
gcall: (October 04, 2010 8:39am)
I have no arguement that people should not be allowed to stay forever without payments. I have a huge objection that Lenders can foreclose in the middle of a shortsale that has all reasonable expectation of close. Time after time--the Lender is at fault for not timely processing and then the buyer, seller, community, and tax payer are screwed again. If the sale falls out, then let it foreclose but if closes everybody is better off. I have had 3 short sales in the last couple of months that I had 3 contracts on each and lost them all because I couldn't get Lender to move on a timely basis. I have another Fannie where they transferred servicers to IBM. Lost package time etc. I am scrambling. Good buyer. Should I, and everyone else be screwed because of inept Fannie mgt and IBM's laxidazical attitude. Abbsolutely not. We are cheated and more waste forced on tax payer to support Fannie.
tks18: (October 04, 2010 8:20am)
No lender or servicer can verify who owns the note, or if there is one. All these lenders created and own shares of MERS which created the smoke and mirrors. No title company will insure a MERS associated loan because nobody can say for sure who should get the money. May of the Trusts have been paid off and these collectors are funneling the money of shore. Read up on the fraud created by your industry.
Bono Vox: (October 04, 2010 8:10am)
Sorry the buyers didn't think bad economic times could come. Sorry they believed their lenders and Realtors. Sorry they didn't have enough reserves. In the end, the clients signed the papers and took the responsibility. If you stopped paying rent, you'd be evicted in 60 days. If you stop paying your mortgage, you have over 400 days of free living. Take your free 400 days, and move on down the road. Buyers will continue to sit on the sidelines while they wait for bottom to hit. Until this happens - until bottom hits - there will not be a housing recovery. You have to decide what is important: righteous indignation or recovery.
tks18: (October 04, 2010 8:10am)
I think you guys are wrong on this on. The coercion between the lenders and the wall street boys that did the securitization along with the appraisers and you loan agents caused this issue of bad titles, the industry needs to pay. The borrowers / homeowners were flatly taken for a ride. You are just off the target on this one. The home owners should all do Quiet Title actions to get their home free and clear and them try to find a reputable loan agent and borrower what they really qualify for.
mwm26a50: (October 04, 2010 8:06am)
Look at everyone making excuses. At some point people have to take some personal responsibility. Yes the banks should work to modify more loans but the bottom line is a homeowner agreed to a mortgage and is now not making the payments. The consequence for that is losing the home.
thevinehouse: (October 04, 2010 7:26am)
Frank & Brian - It's the economy, stupids!That's why most people (emphasis on "most") people are having trouble with paying their mortgages!Since there is no longer much debate about who caused the housing crisis,I suppose you feel every affected homeowner should roll over and "take one for the Gipper" and blissfully lose their homes(their largest INVESTMENT) because of the industry's indescretions?Are you guys crazy?That's like saying that Bernard Madoff's investors should be happy to have lost their money!The only difference in this analogy is that Madoff is jail and virtually no one involved with the housing market collapse has been thrown in the "clinker" as yet.The difference is polictical expediency (spelled m-o-n-e-y.)You asked "why" this happening?For years,the banks have been trying to get into the real estate business.For years CAR and NAR have fought this.However,as long as we take your attitudes,they ARE in the real estate business and will be for a very long time!Why?
dogchapman: (October 04, 2010 7:04am)
one more point- i know personally of many homeowners who agreed to the 3 month trial period & paid the upfront downpayment(5k-15k), paid the 3 month trial payment & then were told in month 4 by the servicer/lender something to the effect-"we regret to inform you that you do not qualify for a modification at this time." then the letter will go on to explain that they should call to discuss their "options" which is usually foreclosure, DIL or short sale. one idea- The lenders should flush through the vacant & speculative inventory first & exhaust every possible effort to keep the owner occupied homeowner in their home. It is not a perfect solution but will help stem the tide of foreclosures to a more managable level.
dogchapman: (October 04, 2010 6:48am)
hey guys, it is not always black & white....there are many stories of many homeowners trying very hard to work out a solution & the lenders are flat out kicking people to the curb. As has been mentioned before, the banks all recieved a helping hand from the government to make them whole but the banks have made no significant effort to help the homeowner become whole. I am glad to see some are standing up to the banks to force them to prove that their procedures are not in question. Wells Fargo is no different & has robo signers that have not reviewed each & every file as required. how many stories do we hear about people getting off due to a technicality? why should a question of equity position be exempt from judicial procedures? I like what you guys have to say in most cases but in this instance you both are off mark & it is not as black & white as your present.
SHORT SALE: (October 04, 2010 6:44am)
successful modifications and the others have been turned down or told they do not qualify for a mod, because their hair is brown, or their nail polish is the wrong shade of red, or because they called after 11:02 am on a Tuesday or whatever the BS excuse of the day may be. WE DO NOT NEED TO FLOOD THE MARKET WITH MORE INVENTORY THAT IS SOLD BELOW MARKET VALUE! There are way to many homeowners underwater and by flooding the market with REO inventory that is sold below market value will create even more strategic foreclosures. The servicers got the money to work with the troubled homeowners they need to work with them to make sure all efforts have been exhausted before moving on to foreclosure. I also think the investors need to start auditing their servicers performance, as we have had many instances where we have a short sale offer on a house for say $190,000 and the servicer declines the offer, forecloses and re-list the house for $150,000 an instant loss of $40,000 not to mention the paying the attorney, giving cash for keys, property preservation, trash out, clean up and whatever other cost they rack up. It is criminal in my eyes for all parties involved. No sorrow here for
SHORT SALE: (October 04, 2010 6:43am)
HMMMMM! I wonder why the homeowners are not making their mortgage payments? Could it be that they are in a modification or making trial period payments and in BofA fashion they file foreclose proceedings on the homeowner in this situation. Could it be because a homeowner lost their job and needed a little help and their servicer told them that there was no help for them because they were current? Could it be because the servicer just foreclosed on three houses in the neighborhood and sold them for 30 to 40% below current market value, leaving many homeowners even more upside-down. I agree if a homeowner is not making their payments yes they should be foreclosed on, however the servicers DO NOT WORK WITH THE HOMEOWNERS! These servicers who we know do not own these loans are not proactive in avoiding or averting problems and they defiantly are not skilled in working with homeowners in trouble, they do everything not to do a modification, and make it harder than heck to get a short sale done. Homeowners are MAD! as the banks got billions of dollars to prevent foreclosures and help keep homeowners in their homes, however only a hand full of the millions of homeowners have had s
[email protected]: (October 04, 2010 6:31am)
Did you fellows look at how many appraisers are losing their homes because of HVCC do you feel their inability to pay is a factor within their control? Not everyone is responsible for their home being foreclosed I have 4 appraisers who work for me that have lost their homes not because they did not want to make their payments but simply because HVCC cheap amc's and a heap of government mumbo jumbo along with the banks loving their own in house amc's
[email protected]: (October 04, 2010 6:30am)
Did you fellows look at how many appraisers are losing their homes because of HVCC do you feel their inability to pay is a factor within their control? Not everyone is responsible for their home being foreclosed I have 4 appraisers who work for me that have lost their homes not because they did not want to make their payments but simply because HVCC cheap amc's and a heap of government mumbo jumbo along with the banks loving their own in house amc's
CMart: (October 04, 2010 6:22am)
Foreclosure is going to hurt the industry as much as it is going to hurt the people. Foreclosure are drag along because the bank are dragging along the modification process and at the end they do not modified the loan. Foreclosure will bring down the value on properties and affect homeowners who are making their payment on time and will put allot of people out of their home. If the homeowners are able to modified the loans and or refi under Cardoza's refi (based on what I heard from Frank and Brian, I have not read the proposal). Then we will help the industry by lowering the foreclosure rate, homes keeping their value and keeping people in their homes. The Banks,? the Government? what about the people. The people are the Economy, the Bank , and the Government. Help the people stay in their home and they will stabilize the economy and our industry.
linda-joey: (October 04, 2010 6:12am)
PART 2 - and we as sales persons are to convince them to stay on the hamster wheel and try again? I say we can absorb the inventory and turn it, if we could get a homebuyer into a property in 45 - 90 days, there would be alot more buyers out there
linda-joey: (October 04, 2010 6:08am)
In my area, one of the hardest hit in value loss (Arizona) we have NO inventory. If you look at the numbers, absolutely, it does take 6 - 9 - 12 + months to get a home from "Active" in the MLS to "pending" it is from there where the numbers get askew... takes 6 plus months for B of A or Wells Fargo to approve the short sale...then they will typically give the buyer three weeks to close from their 6 months to "think about it". All their while of course, the home owner is not making their payment....In the meantime while the Big bank take their sweet time we have a homebuyer who has stayed committed to a property for half a year while placing their plans on hold hoping for a acceptance of their offer. They are given a 10 days to get the home inspection and appraisal done, get bids on needed repairs, then MDIA plays in there and we have to rush to get the appraisal done,and HVCC delivers it three days after the EMD went hard and the potential homebuyer is out 6 monthe and $2000
Dnunes: (October 04, 2010 5:52am)
Honestly, I can't believe some of the statements here. I am good with "opinions" however sometimes they are just crazy. At the end of the day we, like our customers, are big boys and girls. No whinning after you signed on the dotted line. There are situations where help is needed or whinning is appropriate however those are truly few and far between. Pay your bills or get out. Pretty simple. Less government when it comes to that. You want more government go after the BS advertisement scams currently going on in the market. Do away with the "fine print", etc. etc. etc. At the end of the day it is the largest transaction of one's life, they need to understand it and the L.O. needs to explain it. Bad L.O.'s go away. Business is business, pay your bill or it will be taken away. No different from a car loan. Frank and Bryan your right on with this one, if anything the process should be sped up!
TD Hawk: (October 04, 2010 5:49am)
There will be no shortage of foreclosures and REOs until joblessness abates. Owners cannot pay if they aren't making income. And those who think we've seen the bottom of market value are deluded. If banks are being pushed to liquidate their REOs or simply foreclose, you're going to see another 5% drop at least.
jusdge: (October 04, 2010 5:48am)
"deshelman" IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ! EVEN TBWS DAILY WANTS THE BANKS TO TAKE AWAY EVERYONE LEGAL RIGHTS. YOU GUYS DO NOT HAVE A CLUE ! THE BANKS ARE LITERALLY ROBBING THIS COUNTRY ! AND THE STOLEN MONEY IS NOT STAYING IN THIS COUNTRY ! THE BANKS OWN THESE TBWS GUYS ! WISE UP PEOPLE OR THIS COUNTRY AS YOU KNOW IT WILL BE GONE!
TD Hawk: (October 04, 2010 5:48am)
There will be no shortage of foreclosures and REOs until joblessness abates. Owners cannot pay if they aren't making income. And those who think we've seen the bottom of market value are deluded. If banks are being pushed to liquidate their REOs or simply foreclose, you're going to see another 5% drop at least.
GaryP: (October 04, 2010 5:39am)
We're just starting to see some small bottoming in values and even small increases in some markets. This is largely due to the gradual, incremental resolution of the shadow inventory of foreclosed homes. How likely are short sales going to be done, in light of Wells announcement, if the short seller's market is deluged with a mass of foreclosed properties competing for his/her buyer? What happens to values if another huge wave of properties hit the market and time on market goes up further. Where are the buyers coming from? This is simple supply & demand economics folks. When supply outstrips demand, prices fall. The more the ratio of buyers/sellers decreases, the more the price falls. I'm already seeing sales contracts on HUD REOs in the $60-70K range and I am having to deal with fee cap issues on those loans that result in me making even less money on the loan. How much further do we want that to go?
deshelman: (October 04, 2010 5:31am)
What have you guys been smoke'n. Banks have delayed, hid rules under a veil of secrecy, mostly made up their own rules, out right lied to consumers, repeatedly lost or said they have lost documents all to make a rush to foreclose. You forget that many people are unintended victims of the wall street greed crisis. They want to stay in their homes, they need to stay in their homes, they need someone to stand on that wall and protect them (guess you saw that movie). Congress needs to step up as they should have 2 years ago and put a moratorium on foreclosures. People need an independent consumer protection agency to evalulate their situation and protect them from the BofB Banksters, the Wells Fraudo's and GMe bACks. These GSE's are foreclosing on properties they have not even recorded a deed on. Unfortunately I am working in a NON-Judicial foreclosure state. (Will be talking with our Realtor Association about changing that)
GaryP: (October 04, 2010 5:30am)
Brian, Frank, and all of you that answered no to the poll: Let me ask a question. How does dumping a bunch more inventory on the market, increasing average time on the market at a time when sales transactions are at record low levels, help our industry? The last time I saw a statisitic (July I think) the average time on market was up to 12 months. If that goes up to say 20-24 months because of increaed inventory through accelerated foreclosures, does that help the market? Many of these homes will just become run down due to a lack of maintenance and vandalism and may never bee saleable. I think the stategy up to now has been to keep the current occupants in the home and at least let them mow the yard and keep them from being vandalized. I saw this same kind of thing happen in Houston in the 80's and saw some neighborhoods bulldozed just to get the land value back. Where is the logic in that?
Swarm The Banks: (October 04, 2010 4:29am)
http://parallelforeclosure.blogspot.com/2010/10/breaking-news-chase-bank-approves-home.html Either home loan mods are supposed to be a viable solution, or they are not, but to create such a program, and then not use it in an honorable fashion, is consumer fraud. Picking the most lucrative month of income, and then multiplying it by 12 to determine income, is BANKSTER FRAUD. Why don't you create a poll asking if bankster fraud is ok as long as it saves YOUR INDUSTRY A 150 dollars in adm fees.
Swarm The Banks: (October 04, 2010 4:01am)
I guess it's a Frank and Brian World, and the rest of us are lucky just to orbit it. 150 dollar ADM fee increase, oh my gosh, what will we do. http://www.swarmthebanks.com
ChrisSorensen: (October 04, 2010 3:49am)
Yikes! Went on a rant and forgot to check my grammar. I apologize. One last thought; there is a lot of money sitting on the sidelines waiting for the other shoe to drop. Once Americans feel like they are all being treated equally, you'll begin to see fewer people falling behind and this stabilization will cause institutional investors to enter the secondary market and an ease of credit standards will occur. However, until those who have played by the rules receive some of the same benefits as those who borrowed more than they should are getting, there will remain a constant slow burn.
1TB: (October 04, 2010 3:49am)
Of course its not good for us to drag out this whole process of foreclosures. It only helps the big banks and thier shareholders. They are spreading out thier losses. This is going to take years!!!!! As far as Wells Fargo not extending Short Sales. They are Retards!!! TRUST ME, AS SOON AS IT EFFECTS ONE OF THIER BUYERS IN A TRANSACTION AN EXTENSION WILL CERTAINLY TAKE PLACE. MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST HERE. Guess what, it doesnt matter, they hold all the cards and can do whatever they want. My suggestion would be to have that buyer go prequal at wells errrr fraudgo so they can buyt that short sale. RIDICULOUS.
ChrisSorensen: (October 04, 2010 3:42am)
Part 2 I am as conservative as the next guy and I am not crying for those who lied about their qualifications. I am crying for myself and others who played by the rules and got screwed and are now watching the bankers get tax dollars to assist them along with an ease of FDIC accounting rules so they can manage this crisis at the expense of hard working A paper borrowers who have found themselves furloughed or worse due to this crisis. Guys it’s not that easy. Speed up the process is your not making your payments? Heck, they’re told to stop making their payments if they want or need help in a modification that EVERYONE IS TELLING THEM THEY’RE ENTITLED TOO! There needs to be some redress here. I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but there are some out there who have had their dreams destroyed by market manipulation and have had their entire life savings wiped out. Now what?
ChrisSorensen: (October 04, 2010 3:40am)
The only concern I have is the fact that the lenders created a false market by allowing too many people to become homeowners. In CA we saw a 200 to 300% increase in values between 200 and 2006 and no one seemed to understand why. Until now. From 1940 to 2000 the average annual appreciation in CA was 7.1% based upon cursory review of available data. Point? That when people had to demonstrate ability and willingness to repay debt, values could not fluctuate too much. However, when you put me in a home and then allow every wanna be investor or bus driver claiming to make 15K a month to buy in my neighborhood you are essentially setting me up for failure by murdering my homes value through your greed. Had I had a clue that lenders were doing this there is no way I would have bought when I did. I hear this from many who put 10 to 30% down and qualified full doc. They bought when they did because so called “experts” including NAR and the government told them they had better buy or be left behind. I am as conservative as the next guy and I am not crying for those who lied about their qualifications. I am crying for myself and others who played by the rules and got
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:34am)
No place to put your feet... hmmmmmmm
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:30am)
Cheer up - all you can lose is the world and have to fly - no place to put your feet
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:29am)
The lie is the value amd the lie makes you upsidedown
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:27am)
Banks ARE the enemy
5pence: (October 04, 2010 3:26am)
Wholesae mortgages. Don't you guys realize when you bring the money you make the rules?