Wall Street Billionaire Says NOW is the Time to Buy - 02.03.11
Today's Poll: Honestly, do YOU feel now is the time to buy Real Estate?
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JoeParsons: (February 04, 2011 8:42am)
@5pence: You keep saying that the reason for the meltdown was that all the qualified borrowers in the market had gotten their loans, and that the only ones remaining were those who didn't really qualify. Apart from the sheer implausibility of this notion, you are trying to make this case by naked assertion ("ipse dixitism"). It is a logical fallacy sometimes called "argumentum ad nauseam:" if you repeat something often enough, it somehow magically becomes true.
Noel Cookman: (February 04, 2011 8:37am)
@5Pence. By the way, I did read Black, the Hack. He has a political, leftist agenda and is starved for facts and perspective. Please read Thomas Sowell, my friend.
Noel Cookman: (February 04, 2011 8:35am)
@5Pence. Is there some evidence for the claim that the "banks ran out of qualified people to loan money to?" At any given time in the past 70 years, there were millions of people who were "upwardly mobile." That is, among other things, more and more people were qualifying for mortgages whoh did not months or a few years previously. [For example, since 1975 the greatest majority of those in the bottom 20% income bracket will at some point in their lives enter the top 20% income bracket.] Moreover, as more mortgage professionals entered the industry, there would always be fewer potential borrowers/buyers per industry worker; but, that is not the banks "running out of qualified buyers." That is simply few borrowers per qualified lender. Consider one simple, glaring fact: It is impossible for a lender to "put" someone into a loan - any loan, good OR bad. So far as I know, no lender has ever made a borrower sign a mortgage note. It just doesn't happen.
5pence: (February 04, 2011 8:09am)
Noel : You can't seem to grasp the simple concept that the banks ran out of qualified people to loan money to so they next turned to unqualifed people to loan money to. I'm afraid if you don't understand that simple point you're not going to understand anything I say and since you seem so obstinate about your beliefs, there's no sense pursuing trying to educate you on the subject. Read Bill Black, a leading law economist and criminologist and then maybe the wool over your sheeple eyes will be lifted.
Noel Cookman: (February 04, 2011 3:48am)
5Pence. I really do not want to be contentious (for the sole purpose of being contentious). But, RICO does not regulate banks knowledge of foreclosures in advance - because there is no way to determine how/why a lender could possible "know" in advance which loans would fail and which loans would not. Underwriting, as you know, reduces risk - it cannot eliminate it. I violated RICO in the mid 1980's when I "conspired" to protest against an abortion clinic. RICO became a joke and it still is. It was first enacted to give law enforcement a tool to fight the mafia or organized crime. Now, it's used as a bully-club against any group of 2 or more persons who "conspire" to affect the outcome of anything. Even so, what part of RICO did the banks (the ones who "knew" that their loans would fail) violate? With this logic you are using, if you put a bumper sticker on your car for a democrat politician, you conspired to defraud the tax payers.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 7:33pm)
I was closing the office and I see more comments directed to me, as if I wasn't clear enough. @Noel: "You still haven't cited the laws, statutes or regulations banks violated... bla bla bla.. that they "knew" were going to default. Why? And why the generalization (which is not accompanied by evidence) that "they made the rules so of course they play by them." I didn't say that. As far as your "Scenario" I did answer - It was immaterial to the discussion at hand. The banks ran out of quality loans they could make so they started making bad loans. Would you deny that? As far as any particular banking law broken, well, they broke them all. Ponzi, loan fraud, accounting fraud +++ = RICO, already mentioned. @Godlike, got your jammies on? It's a story that will give you nightmares about banksters & greed. Delinquency, default, foreclosure and the destruction of entire neighborhoods are the 4 horsemen that always ride together to wreak havoc in the wake of epidemics of mortgage fraud by lende
rayprose: (February 03, 2011 5:34pm)
Godlike - Your a moron and an idiot if you REALLY think that there was not manipulation of the laws and manipulation of the larger banks. ARE YOU SERIOUS?? I get that the regulators did their jobs according to the laws as written. What my premise is and what I think 6Pence is trying to say is that there was a driven thought process in play here. It didn't just HAPPEN...Ooooppps. l e t m e s p e a k s l o w l y s o y o u c a n u n d e r s t a n d.....Congressman paid off to write laws a certain way. Stocks manipulated to maximize profits and the general public left holding the bag.....DON'T YOU GET THAT??? I'm not a conspiracy theorists but COME ON you would have to be deaf DUMB and blind to not see there was manipulation going on... which are you??? Or, do you work for the banks?
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 4:39pm)
So 5pence you're telling me that the banks tell Frannie what they will buy? WOW! Consider me enlightened. I'll bet the banks even set the standards for FHA & HUD. THOSE EVIL BANKSTERS! So tell me again where the regulations and rules for the "liar & ninja" loans came from. Wait, let me get my jammies on, I haven't had a good fairy tale read to me at night since I was a kid.
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 4:03pm)
@5Pence. You still haven't cited the laws, statutes or regulations that the banks violated by making these loans that they "knew" were going to default. Why? And why the generalization (which is not accompanied by evidence) that "they made the rules so of course they play by them." On one hand seem to say that laws are made to protect the people as if to say that all laws have some intrinsic quality to them that protects consumers. On the other hand, you seem to be saying that the banks made (influenced) the laws that favored them. Which is it? And again, which laws were broken when banks made these loans they "knew" were going to fail. And why will you not answer my previous scenario question?
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 3:58pm)
@5Pence. I choked when I saw your link to Puffington Post. That's a hack publication and a hack left-wing idealogue. But, this could cut right to the chase and bypass my right-wing political rhetoric (since it would probably inspire a gunman to shoot a congressperson or something). Arianna Huffington has plenty of money - apply to her for a mortgage loan. It's perfectly legal for her to make mortgage loans. She could probably even make several before getting licensed. (Texas allows 5 per year I think). She can underwrite it and make only a "good" loan. This Blackwater guy or whatever his name is, has conveniently left out of his diagnosis the underlying causes for the real estate meltdown - because it would be an embarassment to his leftist ideology. Land use restrictions and activists (coming initially out of Chicago - shock of shocks) like the Rev Jackson, aided by the Clinton Justice Dept are as culpable is anyone. But, go ahead and get your mortgage from Arianna.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 3:43pm)
Believe me, The banks did not start doing no-doc, liar and ninja loans from a micro economic perspective - they were looking at the big picture $$$$$$$$. Later all, I hope some read or watch those Bil Black links from my previous post. I'm only wishing the best for all but there can be no solution unless you understand the problem.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 3:17pm)
Geez, banks are private and they set their own rules. Our laws are made to make sure they don't screw up our financial system by their internela rules. We can't MAKE them do anything but we can STOP them from doing anything that might endanger the financial security of this country. They have power to destroy our economy and financial systems so laws are in place to try to make sure they don't. Can we audit the Fed? Can we audit any of the TBTF's? Big NO. Tell me why Godlike
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 3:12pm)
Read this: http://www.housingwire.com/2011/02/03/philly-fed-scholar-pushes-for-increased-quality-not-quantity-of-homeownership You'll look at that a let out a boisterous DUH! It's obvious to everyone except the ijut trying to buy some votes in the next election. Just look at the arguments the foundations are using to get HUD not to do risk based pricing. They are the same arguments almost word for word that got us the Everybody deserves a home programs from 1999. Everyone can't win a race, there have to be losers before winning means anything. By the same token not every deserves a home loan unless they work for it. The "you can't make people feel bad by losing a race" leads directly into the "Every deserves a home loan" trap.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 3:12pm)
Noel we are talking about the larger economies of scale and not cherry picking data. Simple math, when there's no more qualified people to make mortgage loans to, who do you make mortgage loans too? Godlike, please, you're not talking from a position of knowledge - read Bill Black, get educated and then you can appear literate, not a redneck and not a conspiracy theorist and then knowledgable posters can post more. Thanks
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 3:07pm)
5pence what is proper underwriting? In Noel's scenario both were considered proper under the rules in place at the time. So legally both were proper. Which was better? That's obvious. And we are back to who sets the rules. The banks don't set the rules for Frannie, congress did. It's that quasi-governmental connection everyone talks about. They raise money privately for loans that are done to governmental standards.
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 3:05pm)
So who set the rules for Fannie and Freddie who set the rules for the banks? And technically no, if they met the rules in place at the time then they did not commit a criminal act or fraud. It may not be what you want to hear, but that's the truth. I'm not defending them or the system, obviously there were problems but the baseless name calling does nothing to help work out the problems. What it does do is the few make the whole lot of us look like illiterate, redneck, conspiracy theorists and keep the knowledgeable posters off the forum. It also makes it difficult to link the forum to people who are in a position to make a difference.
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 2:55pm)
@5Pence. One guy gets an 80% loan, he has 800 credit scores and a DTI at about 30% on fully documentable income. Another guy gets 100% financing, 625 credit scores and 50% DTI on alternative income documentation (bank statements). Assuming there is no other significant factor or difference between the two, which was the good loan and which was the "bad" loan? Which loan defaulted and which one was paid perfectly. Although this scenario was probably repeated thousands of times across the US from 1999 - 2007, it is a real case study with real borrowers. Please do tell, which is which?
JoeParsons: (February 03, 2011 2:52pm)
...and I'd very much like to see what the "standards required by Congress" were. I've never really seen those lending guidelines.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 2:49pm)
Maybe better spelling will help : The banks had loaned mortgage money on nearly every person in the country that could qualify for the loan with proper underwriting. The investment banks, however, were demanding more and more MBS's and CDO's so the banks themselves, to satisfy their larger investment bank brothers, started giving loans to people that were unqualifed. Is that logic really so hard to understand?
5pence: (February 03, 2011 2:43pm)
The banks had loaned on every person that could qualify with proper underwriting. The investment banks were demanding more and more MBS's and CSO's so the banks themselves, to satisfy their larger brothers, started giving loans to people that were unqualifed. Is that logic really so hard to understand?
rayprose: (February 03, 2011 2:39pm)
Godlike - So what you are saying is that if the heads of banks made rules they KNEW would eventually cause a huge meltdown AND they got congress to go along with it and pass legislation that makes it Okee-Dokee to do then it is NOT FRAUD??? WTF OF COURSE THEY FOLLOWED THE RULES AS SET UP....THEY WROTE THEM!!! Read Creature from Jekyl Island again. It outlined SPECIFICALLY what has transpired. And.....they didn't know that what they were doing would end up that way??????? If that isn't fraud I don't know what is. Did they abide by the rule of the day? YOu bet! Did they pay congressman very well for those rules, YOU BET! If we know this why not call for their HEADS???
5pence: (February 03, 2011 2:39pm)
Ok, one more time. When the banks make loans that they don't do proper underwriting on - that is illegal. All the TBTF's made loans that they knew would fail and they did causing the housing crash. Congress does not control the banking system or the TBTF's. You really need to get more educated Godlike. Here's a link to help - it's Bill Black's take of what happened. He's a leading economist and a criminologist. Don't believe me, believe him. Bank of America: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/post_1214_b_779193.html. An early 2009 interview on Frontline: Bill Black, an economic policy taht has completely failed: (good read) http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/04032009/watch.html. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/an-economic-philosophy-th_b_810950.html. So please, get educated about what happened. We need a well-educated populace.
JoeParsons: (February 03, 2011 2:23pm)
I SO want to jump into this mosh pit and play, but, dammit, I have actual clients to serve, loans to close. But I can't remember seeing quite so much misinformation and fallacious logic for quite some time. And to those talking about how the banks "knew" which loans would default as they were making them, may I refer you to the film, "The Minority Report" (or, better yet, the original Philip K. Dick short story of the same name)?
5pence: (February 03, 2011 2:21pm)
Today is the day to make your voice heard! Join thousands of other people as we tell our Attorneys General that big banks can't get away with their crimes. The 50 state Attorneys General are conducting an investigation into the mortgage fraud scandal, but the big banks are trying to push for a quick settlement that gets them off the hook. http://crimeshouldntpay.com/
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 1:57pm)
5pence how many shooters were there in the Kennedy assassination and where can I buy one of those tin foil hats that you wear all the time?
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 1:57pm)
5pence Tell me which banks made loans they knew would fail and what would have been their profit motive? What we had were banks and everyone making loans to the standards required by Congress which we all knew were a recipe for disaster, but we couldn't make congress listen. By definition there were no criminal acts or acts of fraud for following the rules in place at the time.
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 1:56pm)
5pence Tell me which banks made loans they knew would fail and what would have been their profit motive? What we had were banks and everyone making loans to the standards required by Congress which we all knew were a recipe for disaster, but we couldn't make congress listen. By definition there were no criminal acts or acts of fraud for following the rules in place at the time.
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 1:54pm)
But did they break the law? Most of the claims you make are very broad blanket, hysteria inducing type claims. What is fraud? "A deception DELIBERATELY practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain. A piece of trickery; a trick." The rules are very different now than they were a few years ago. What you may think of as criminal or fraud isn't. Now the rating agencies telling everyone stocks were AAA when they weren't - that's fraud.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 1:35pm)
Could we have been declared war on by any of the countries the banksters bankrupted? Even China? Think about that...
5pence: (February 03, 2011 1:33pm)
I presonally could call what the bankster terrorists did, treason. They betrayed this country and it's people for greed. IMHO, they should have been declared war on just like any other terrorist. Later, some things to do, thanks for the converse Noel and Godlike
5pence: (February 03, 2011 1:19pm)
Stop playing ingorant Noel, if the banks don't do proper underwriting on the loans they make, how do they know if this person is a person they'll take a chance on and will pay for the next 30 years? Mortgage fraud has many violations, RICO is just one.
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 1:18pm)
@5Pence. It's true that laws exist for a reason . . . not always a good one but they still get voted onto the register. But, elections also "exist for a reason." And the "tax payers" that you hold in such high esteem elect Presidents and legislators. We "tax payers" are as culpable as anyone. We (not me in particular) are swayed by promises (mostly from liberals) of a chicken in every pot, two cars in every garage, high wages and more; yet, we never stop to ask who's going to pay for all of this. The virtuous "tax payer" is getting what he voted for - Bill Clinton's policies! Those of us who were not fooled by socialist/liberal gobbledygook still have to pay - and we pay more than the loser whack job who keeps voting for the politician who sounds the best and promises more chicken and watermelon than the other guy.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 1:16pm)
See, they had already written up everybody that could qualify for a loan with proper underwriting so what was left was the dregs of society that could not get a loan unless they were no-doc, liar and ninja loans. It was their only choice to keep feeding the investment banks insatiable appetitie for more MBS's and CDO's. They knew. Bad credit scores? No problem. No job? No problem.
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 1:10pm)
@5Pence. Just so I will avoid embarassment in the future by purporting that a company hasn't broken a law when in fact they have, would you mind citing the statute, act or even regulation that the banks violated when lending? Also, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around exactly how a bank is supposed to "know" that a loan will default. This would be an incredible scientific discovery and, really, a breakthrough. We would, overnight, eliminate foreclosures (defaulted loans). This is wondeful news! Mark your calendars! February 3, 2011 - the day we stopped all future foreclosures because we now "KNOW" what loans will default. Hurry. I want to be the first to post this on my facebook page. It should be on Fox News and the Fox Business Channel in the next few hours.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 1:10pm)
Did I ever say the government wasn't complicit in these crimes? My take: the banksters said if that's what the government wants, we can make a lot of money. If government wants it we will be bailed out by them if it goes off a cliff. They then took advantage of this government mandate and instead of trying to hold it down to a tolerable level, they went crazy and put the world at risk. Hey, they had the guarantee of a taxpayer bailout. The banks knew these loans would fail because they did no underwriting to see if the person could pay back the loan. There-in lies the fraud. How do banks make no doc, liar loans and ninja loans to anyone off the street and not know they were going to fail? A bank not doing proper underwriting on their loans is putting the economy at risk and that is mortgage loan fraud. Banks prior to '03 did a lot of these liar loans? Why weren't they doing them for the last 70 years? Why just now? Would you lend $100,000's to someone without some guarantee of payback?
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 12:59pm)
@5Pence: Pray tell, how is a 100% loan designed to fail? Also pray tell, if Janet Reno tells you that if you don't make a certain amount of these "bad loans" you will not be approved to open an ATM machine or even CLOSE a branch if you need/want to, and if Bill Clinton appoints a crony who doctors the books and takes 90M in bonuses because he bloats Fannie's books by buying these loans, wherein has the bank acted fraudulently? And what evidence can you produce that the bank "knew" that the loan would fail?
5pence: (February 03, 2011 12:56pm)
Laws are there for a reason, to protect the citizens and the economy and when banks make loans that they know will fail, then they are breaking the law. In 2006, 49% of all loans made were loans (no-doc, ninja, liars loans) that the banks knew would fail within a year or 2 - and suprise, they did. And that's not the only year they were doing that - they were even able to put the unemployed into mortgage debt! I'm suprised it's taken so long for you to understand the crimes I've been blabbing about for months! Now do you get it?
5pence: (February 03, 2011 12:49pm)
Godlike : Read Bill Black the leading investigator of the S & L crisis - which was tiny in size compared to the this and yet produced thousands of convictions for fraud, market manipulation and other crimes. No, there's not moral indignation here that they got away with it and I can't - They....broke....the....law.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 12:44pm)
Godlike: Fraud is criminal - making loans that they knew would fail is a bank loan that is fraudulently made. It put at risk our economy and the economy of the world. They sold bribed AAA toxic loans designed to fail - that's also illegal.
Mamma-Realtor: (February 03, 2011 12:41pm)
@kscubablu (and anyone else accusing realtors of complicity): I just checked all the county public records of the 33 closings I've done in my career, which starts early 2006. Out of 33 closings, only 1 has been foreclosed. None of the other 32 have even a single Lis Pendens recorded in the public records. All clients were required to get pre-qualified for loans before shopping for homes, and I maintained no affiliation with any LOs. That one now-foreclosed buyer was brought to ME by a local mortgage broker and I was told he was ready to go. He was not a client I obtained myself (and interviewed). No doubt there were unethical dealings by realtors in places, but it's just not my experience. Lest anyone think I live in a low-foreclosure area... I live in Tampa Bay Florida, which has high foreclosures and most of the properties on the market are short sales or REOs.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 12:40pm)
OMG Noel, I can believe you said that. The GSE's are getting pennies on the dollar for all the blatantly fraudulent loans they made and you're saying taxpayers and homeowners shouldn't be able to get the same treatment? The banks get money (our money) from the Fed at near zero interest, they aren't allowed to fail when they should and they can do made up accounting. Since the banks would not exist without taxpayers supporting them, where is the gratitude for being bailed out??!! Where? They get money for 0%, our money - they can't turn around and help save the economy by lowering all rates to homeowners to 2%? They'd still make money - but no. Not eough money for them. They are heartless and deserve to be treated coldly. FK the banks.
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 12:39pm)
5pence you use the word CRIMINAL a lot especially in relationship with bankers. Were they criminal? Was what they were doing against the law? Or have laws been changed? If it wasn't against the law at that time then it wasn't criminal. It appears that what you mean most of the time is opportunistic or maybe even morally bankrupt. It also seems you seem upset they got away with it and that somehow it hurt you. You are/were? an appraiser. How did they hurt you? I seem to remember Cuomo doing the appraisers damage, not the bankers.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 12:32pm)
The Fed unleashed not only easy money but they also unleashed something nuch more sinster-the adverse spirit of speculation which was enabled by criminal banksters with easy money for all, such that honest normal people were tempted into criminal activies (knowingly or unknowingly) so that the greed of the banksters could be sated by loans that they knew could not be paid back and would default in a year or 2. I try to be honest, but even though the adverse spirit of speculation did not grab a hold of me (I still have equity), I might have done much of the same things talked about. This adverse spirit unleashed on Americans is ALL due to the Federal Reserve (owned by the TBTF's) with beyond reason low rates and printing of fiat money from thin air. Speculation, like bacon & peanut butter sandwiches is good, but too much will kill you. The banks dangled that carrot in front of all and those that followed fell off a cliff while the banks were tethered to the hill with a taxpayr lifeline.
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 12:30pm)
Is Paulsen greedy? What makes you think so? Just because he made more money than you? Hmm, jealousy is one of the deadly sins. But isn't that really the root of much of the discontent we see in the news. "Old so & so made all this money at the time I was only making $X." Making a lot of money doesn't mean you are greedy - only good! Now if you are perverting the system to make money at the expense of others that could very well be greed. Just because someone is feeding off the trough upstream of you doesn't make them bad, but it might make you feel dumb. Don't just sit there, do something about it! Educate yourself and work YOUR way upstream. The American way used to be to improve yourself, now it's become COMPLAIN!
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 12:25pm)
A GREEDY person will always push the boundaries of whatever laws are in place. In my long & illustrious career I've only run into a few greedy persons. I've met people with more ambition than me, but that doesn't make them greedy. The "G" word is being overused by the press and the people here. When visitors come to this site what do they see? Bickering and the "G" word being thrown around. What else are they supposed to think but that maybe the media might be right? What about all the politicians we are working to get to view the site? What are they to think? If you truly want to have a positive impact upon the people and the system then stop and thing before you type.
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 12:25pm)
@5Pence. I went to the link because I want to help with what you are passionate about. I was abrupty stopped at this statement we are supposed to make to the AG: "The settlement must include principal reduction for millions of homeowners." First of all, this is the quickest way to create more cost to credit (vis a vis higher rates, higher fees). How do you think banks will recuperate that "reduction in principle?" And by what logic are we asking this? We are now demanding the an entity that advanced a dollar under a legal contract must be forced to take $.60 in repayment or face legal sanction? This is the sort of nonsense that really created the problem in the first place - Rev. Jackson, ACORN and sundry groups pressuring banks (under threat of legal action) to make those "bad loans" we now lay at the feet of the banks that were pressured to do so. Crikey!
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 12:21pm)
According to the FreeDictionary the definition of greed is: An EXCESSIVE desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth. Other than a few B lenders I don't think that definition could be applied to anyone (OK, maybe a few) in the mortgage/real estate industry. Normal desires to have enough money to feed, clothe & house your family as well as to have enough money for a few extras like that Mercedes are NOT signs of greed. That's just human nature.
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 12:16pm)
Did you notice the numbers on Paulsen's earnings. They are paltry compared to what realtors and LO's make on their deals. If you take both years' figures 4B + 5B and round it up to 10B and divide by 1.9T, you get 1/2 of 1% in commission. Moreover, as Frank/Brian explained it, he didn't make it "on the backs" of anyone. Quite the opposite. He made it BECAUSE he made money for his investors. Hey, if he's that good and only charges me .5% commission, I'd let him take my hundreds and invest it any day. Moreover (again), the fact that he made money on the down-swing as well as the up-swing is what we call futures/options. Any investment broker or securities dealer can tell you how it works. "Make money," they say "whether the market goes up or down." This is the ONLY way commodities markets work. If what Johnny did was unethical or criminal, shut down the Chicago exchange.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 12:11pm)
For those wondering wtf (Winning The Future) I'm talking about it's about the AG's investigations of foreclosure fraud. They are our last line of defense against these banksters. That can actually do something and if they have half a brain, they'll see how the meltdown has decimated cities and state coffers across the country and demand justice. Please take the time to go to that link and call your state AG. Mine had a recording and it maybe took 5 minutes total. Thanks and if you do this for me, I promise not to post anymore today. Sounds good? Link in my previous post
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 12:09pm)
There is nothing about greed that necessarily causes fraud. It's quite possible to be greedy and refrain from illegal or unethical activities. Moreover, what some call greed, another may consider ambition and still another industry. Only God can judge the internal motives. And if you don't believe in God, you're still left with no one qualified to make that determination. Regulations cannot address "greed" or someone's motive. And blaming the current malaise on a "poorly regulated" industry doesn't seem totally logical. We are regulated out the ass now and there is as much "funny business" going on as ever. And the only reason crime amongst LO's might be on the decline is because there are fewer LO's now to commit those crimes. There are also fewer LO's to compete, create good pricing in the market and offer alternatives to borrowers.
ebrowning: (February 03, 2011 12:08pm)
to kscubablu: when you began your career in mortgage, you worked in an office where "everyone, BUT YOU, forged docs"??? Ok, call me cynical, but you sound like your full of b.s....your banter perpetuates the negativity surrounding our industry. Your email was littered with the word "fraud". Not only was your company filled with criminals, but the realtors and appraisers were, as well?? I've been in this game for 17 years, but have only experienced actual "fraud" a few times. So, either you are full of hatred and delusions, or we ALL need to get out of this game.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 11:50am)
OT but not really. Today is National Call-In Day to your state AG's. You can locate your state AG's number at this site. Crime shouldn't pay: http://crimeshouldntpay.com/
ND Lender: (February 03, 2011 11:41am)
Frank & Brian - would like to hear what you have to say on the - STRIKE - option. Have tried to meet with Senators and Rep's from our state but not interested in making change. All these changes with Consumer protection in mind. 20 years ago initial disclosures to start a loan maybe 18 pages. Yesterday sent out an "Initial Packet" to a borrower - 51 PAGES. Logic is gone!!
kscubablu: (February 03, 2011 11:41am)
we need to rid this industry of all who participated in the fraud, lenders just to advantage of a porrly regulated industry - GREED was the reason on all sides!
harold: (February 03, 2011 11:39am)
Great Video Guys! I like it so much I put it on my Facebook!
kscubablu: (February 03, 2011 11:38am)
Wait a minute, some realtors played a part just as some MBrokers played a part...in the begining of my career in the mortgage business I worked for Cor Lenin an office for a corsp Lender branch. Everyone but me forged docs as I saw it AND they dealt w/realtors that had the buyers needing subprime and apprs that would inflate appraisals. All of them LO's and Broker forged docs on full doc sub prime loans. The only way the MB got the business was because they dealt with Realtor with the buyers that did not care as they wanted the house they were buying....I left there, went and got my BK license and worked only for credible Brokers...also would not do a deal with anyone that wanted fraudulant appraisals or realtors...and if I found out a buyer or Realtor wanted me to do anything along that I said NO - never had a loan foreclose that was because of my doing- no one will ever own me for a fraudulant deal- This is what we all need to do no matter what part of the industry you are in!
5pence: (February 03, 2011 11:38am)
rayprose - no one is at fault as much as the banks that purposely made bad loans. That is where the blame starts and ends. Only the banks could have made this melt-down happen. To blame anyone else is masochistic.
5pence: (February 03, 2011 11:36am)
Paulson wants more people in the market so he can short again. I seriously doubt he's betting on a recovery like he bet on the meltdown. BTW, every bankster knew it was coming, we don't know how much Goldman sachs and all the CDS buyers made because their books are sealed to the public. I'll bet GS alone made more than Paulson and I'll bet even more that the banksters weren't as broke as they claimed, but still wanted to be bailed out. GS even said they didn't need TARP but it was free money, so why not. Obama frowned when they said that, wanting them to take it back. The guys a weasel. Ralph Nader called him a con-man and has no use for him.
Big Mac: (February 03, 2011 10:58am)
This is long, but worth it. When was the last time you heard of Republicans calling for regulations and Democrats saying we don’t need them? Something is fishy in this one, if we follow the money, we will find out the cause of the problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
doitright: (February 03, 2011 10:55am)
Okay I am gettting some following STRIKE on April First and dont write a deal until the government steps back and lets a free market take over . ON APRIL ! STRIKE , THAT MEANS EVERYONE IN THE BUSINESS ! THANK YOU
rayprose: (February 03, 2011 10:39am)
When I originally posted this morning it was NOT to make it seem that Realtors didn't have a part in this parade. It was to say that we BLINDLY accepted the rules we were given and went along with the charade without listening to that little voice in our head that said..."THIS IS JUST TOO GOOD". My point is and has been that there are billionaires like the one mentioned in the preceding video that have set up the rules and positioned themselves to get rich off the backs of Americans. WHY has the justice department not back tracked the money trail and looked at the manipulation of the rules by those individuals and PROSECUTED THEM????? We can all point fingers at each other but in the final analysis "He who sets the rules should pay the penalty" and I don't see that happening. Where is the JUSTICE in American justice??? Realtors, Mortgage Brokers, Appraisers followed the rules given us. The Banks made huge profits on the way up and now on the way down we bail them out. PROSECUTE THEM!!!
JonS: (February 03, 2011 10:38am)
Guys, I'm cool on just about every product you endorse. They are usually awesome. But mortgagesaver.com... Not bashing the bi-weekly idea, it is their web site. It is so low rent I wouldn't want to affiliate. There are mis-spellings, log-in links visable to the public, even a link exchange. Even a thinly vieled take on the Superman logo. Really?
JoeParsons: (February 03, 2011 10:30am)
@Godlike: thanks for the link. It doesn't prove your point, however. Peter Wallison, one the four dissenting members on the FCIC, says that "Government entities such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Federal Housing Administration and insured banks were 'compelled' to compete for more mortgage borrowers, causing underwriting standards to decline and swelled a housing bubble for a decade before bursting in 2007." The context indicates that the "compelling" was done by the marketplace, not Congress. It should be noted that Mr. Wallison is a Fellow in the American Enterprise Institute, a neoconservative think tank. It is therefore to be expected that he would minimize the role of decreased regulation in the mortgage crisis. He correctly states that the genesis of the meltdown was a decade earlier--and while he mention the Gramm-Leach-Bliley, he dismisses it, then cites *himself* as evidence for the assertion.
ATLMTGMAN: (February 03, 2011 10:30am)
OK, we're all to blame and none of us are to blame....who cares anymore. We have beaten this dead horse until there are only bones left. At this point, we need to stop bickering about who's at fault and come together as a collective voice to stop the government's intrusion on our very livelihoods. Can I get an amen????
ND Lender: (February 03, 2011 9:53am)
@Noel - STRIKE - I think you would get some people on CHill to pay attention. Shut all residential lending down for 2 weeks. People would be screaming. All these changes the government has thrown at the industry and the consumer has no clue. Just another bunch of papers to sign.
pugsy77: (February 03, 2011 9:45am)
Mama Realtor: Not sure what county your in but in the counties such as Marin, Sonoma and Napa we all know who were the predatory lenders and realtors and who in many cases knew that loans were being made to english as a second language buyers who also in many instances were buying more than one property simultaneously by playing the shell game with 3 or 4 buyers. Its the second or third generation immigrant screwing the new immigrant for commission and there were loan people complicit in these dealings. Now if the FDIC would do their job and post a hit list of agents (be they lenders or realtors) with the highest number of DEALS GONE BAAD! I smell a gov't reality show. Expose the vermin for who they are...greedy bastards!! Now some are even capitalizing on their bad deals for a second time. Are we all ignorant or what?
skywolf: (February 03, 2011 9:44am)
I can't believe last year you guys were villifing Paulson and the shady bank 1 deal, Now you think he is a hero...........? WTF? you lost of credibility with me today. Paulson vs. Madoff what's the difference? To quote Rolling Stone...Paulson is 50,000 worse.
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 8:50am)
JoeParsons, yes Congress gave us loans. http://tinyurl.com/4vfxf34
sandance: (February 03, 2011 8:30am)
Godlike said it all. I think we all like to think we're in charge, but as I've stated on here before, we were just pawns in a game we don't even begin to know how to play. Paulson knows how to play and is probably the biggest criminal if he made the most money. Characterizing him as someone "smart" to listen to goes against my grain...like saying we should listen to Al Capone or something. He probably just wants everyone to buy so that money flows his way again, and he can "hedge" his bets to beat us all again in 20 years. I'm telling you, this stuff takes some EDUCATION...not something Americans are into, so the rich get richer...
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 8:28am)
Parallel foreclosure? Is this the end of it? http://tinyurl.com/4pjezxo
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 8:24am)
JoeParsons you make my point. No one at our level had any say so in anything that was done so we should quit finger pointing at each other and point to where it belongs way, way, way up the ladder. Divide & conquer is an old military adage that certainly applies here. UNITE!
JoeParsons: (February 03, 2011 8:21am)
@Godlike: Congress gave us loans...whaaaa? Bill Clinton's fault, right? The mortgage crisis started with the passage of Gramm-Leach-Bliley in 1999 (Sen. Phil Gramm, R-TX). The "Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999" essentially repealed the Glass Steagal Act of 1933, which then gave free rein to the investment banks and insurance companies (think AIG-FP) to create exotic loan programs like stated-stated 100% LTV neg-am loans to a 585 FICO. Those loans were bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities, which were insured by Credit Default Swaps underwritten by our friends at AIG. (That's how Mr. Paulson made his dough: CDSs). Those MBSs were then sliced and diced and bundled into derivatives called Collateralized Debt Obligations. The crisis had little or nothing to do with anyone's desire to see "everyone" own a home.
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 7:52am)
I see all the finger pointing so I see that most of you have bought into the media's storyline. I don't think ANY of us are to blame. We were given a product that we had no choice in selling. We used the loans that God (Congress) gave us. They said that every American deserved a home whether it made sense or not and said "Ye must use these programs". Not a single one of us set out to intentionally cause a buyer to get into a situation that would make them lose a home. For the most part Realtors are uninformed and willing to put any price on a home just to get the listing, but that's been going on since Realtors began so that was nothing new and had no exceptional impact. Appraisers just reported data. A buyer said do I qualify for $X loan and loan officers, using the guidelines given to them from on high, worked the numbers and said yea or nay. So quit bickering and focus your anger where it truly belongs - WAY ABOVE OUR COLLECTIVE PAY GRADE!
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 7:49am)
@ND Lender - initially STRIKE sounds good. If we could do it with widespread support and without creating a union I think it would work. Hopefully we can work for "hope and change" in the regulation of mortgages. Wouldn't it be sensible and economical to place regulation of mortgage under only one department or division of gov't, return to state licensing, chuck the NMLS, bring back the old GFE and let MP's compete for business. Imagine that!
Appraiser Micro: (February 03, 2011 7:48am)
Mike 8307 - good one. It's all digital, with no real substance. / When Realtors sell homes based on monthly affordability of buyers, they will start to be better aligned with their clients needs. / Just remember to blame the appraiser for everything - we're used to it. In fact, will you bankers and Realtors please request that my appraisal fees be reduced further. That would be nice, and you could even take a split of what used to be my fee. Sounds nice doesn't it?
ND Lender: (February 03, 2011 7:40am)
STRIKE!!! It seems to me the government keeps force feeding us on every facit of our business. Why wouldn't we as a Professional group STRIKE/Protest - I bet that would get the Fed Reserves attention. Thoughts???
GODLIKE: (February 03, 2011 7:38am)
So Brian, what's your goal with the facial hair? You've been on again, off again and right now it's especially grody, so where you going with this thing? This is video so visual imaging is key. Do you have a part in a Hollywood movie? Enquiring minds want to know.
JohnAppraiser: (February 03, 2011 7:37am)
I don't blame realtors BUT they always do seem to want prices to be high in a neighborhood. They like to keep the values high. I always hear comments like "we only got $90 a sqft for that one I wish I could bury that listing", or things like "the one that just sold on Main St. went for a real good price, can you use that comp?". I have ne real "beef" with realtors but lets just say it like it is. They are not advocates, advisors, or guidance counselors.... they are used house salespersons. I have sold cars before and it is the same baisc principal. Just like with cars there are some really honest reputable sales people out there who try to do the right thing by buyers/sellers then there are the other 90% who make a sale by any means neccessary. The only time realtors get paid is when a house gets sold.....period.
Noel Cookman: (February 03, 2011 7:26am)
barbara, it angers me to see how a realtor treated you. But it's not surprising. Realtors are notoriously disloyal. (When I see widespread loyalty amongst realtors I'll back off and consider marketing to realtors again. For now, God has answered my prayer and given me a business model that needs 0 referrals from realtors). Anyway, I think it might be good to NOT consider subprime loans as "crap" loans or "bad" loans made by LO's (or "Little Anti-Christs" as they are known in the media). We must be careful to correctly diagnose the mortgage and real estate meltdown (2007-current). (Thomas Sowell's The Housing Boom and Bust is awesome for that IMO). My friend (also in the mortgage business) had 8 subprime loans from 2000 - 2008. All but the last one were subprime. All but the last one were paid perfectly. The only loan that defaulted was the "good" loan. Just saying it's a slippery slope when we identify a loan product as bad or good.
Mike8307: (February 03, 2011 7:25am)
JOBS JOBS JOBS JOBS... We look at the unemployment number but that only tells part of the story. If you exchange a $75K job for a $23K job unemployment doesn't go up, but your purchasing power fell by 66%. This once great nation turned sour when we turned from manufacturing to service, and service can be outsourced to foreign nations in a heartbeat. Can an entrepreneur open up a manufacturing plant today? NO. Not with the cost of Federal regulations, EPA regulations, State regulations, and state EPA regulations. There is your free market for you. It isn't free. Unless you're going to manufacture some "green" product that no one will purchase without a government subsidy. We need to repatriate the jobs we've lost. We get sold on this whole "its a global economy" these days. Well 85% of the world's population lives in horrible conditions. Buying into a global economy means we have to live like that as well.
bfennell: (February 03, 2011 6:58am)
Did you consider that maybe Paulson wants us to buy homes because he is betting we will and then his hedge makes him more money! I doubt if he cares if anyone buys a home other than if he can make money on you.
deblakeley: (February 03, 2011 6:54am)
rayprose: Everyone is at fault to a degree for the meltdown. It's just that some or more liable than others.
Mamma-Realtor: (February 03, 2011 6:53am)
Blaming the realtors for the meltdown is about as ridiculous as blaming the buyers (for being stupid enough to sign on a loan that was predatory or buying more house than they could really afford). Just because these parties (realtors and buyers) are part of the system doesn't make them prime guilty parties of the housing meltdown.
DanSchweihs: (February 03, 2011 6:41am)
Here is an interesting article: http://nyti.ms/i8w4zr Possibly the beginning of a trend?
debtdoctor: (February 03, 2011 6:35am)
the obvious opportunity here is for realty rental investors. prices are down, rents are up. people are afraid to by, and willing to pay my mortgage. plus I don't have to get blamed for being greedy selling someone a house. perfect!
barbara: (February 03, 2011 6:25am)
I had a realtor tell me she didn't refer to me anymore. She only sent me low credit score buyers who needed subprime loans. I explained the problems with those loans to them straight up, and they weren't comfortable. So she sent them to LO's who specialized in them. Bet they're all foreclosed on now. LO's who didn't do the crap loans definitely lost business. But we slept better at night. Realtors lived off those loans, and just closed their eyes.
debtdoctor: (February 03, 2011 6:19am)
hey bbensonw, let me know when you are ready to sell. I would be glad to have you let me sell your home at whatever price I set. I will even guarantee a sale in 10 days under those terms.
debtdoctor: (February 03, 2011 6:17am)
Seriously, Realtors WISH they could set the price. Then the unrealistic sellers (demanding 10's of thousands more than the home is really worth), and the unrealistic buyers (wanting to buy at 10's of thousands below market value) would get on board and make some sense. Our free market was severely manipulated by pressure to make ninja loans, and then sell the junk on a mass market rated as AAA. Shame on the individual agents who helped put those deals together, along with the lenders, and eveyone else up and down that contagion food chain.
MTGTEAM: (February 03, 2011 6:15am)
Now part 2 the contributing factor, along come "Bob and Sally" just picking names here. They wanted to buy Dick and Janes house really bad because it was perfect for them and within there budget. $125,000 would work. When they see you its now $80,000 more then they can afford, but they really want this house, but the only way they can afford it is to get a real low interest rate. What better then an option arm----there you go cause in motion. Dont tell us you dont play a part.
bbensonw: (February 03, 2011 6:13am)
Actually - Realtors do set the LIST price. They do not set the SALE price. I see list prices that are way above the value. This may be influenced by the seller, the bank or the Realtor. As to who caused the meltdown, it came down to greed. From the lenders to the realtors to the appraisers to the sellers to the buyers. I believe that the loose controls displayed by the banks was the beginning and everyone wanted in on it. Quick money. Easy money. Now we all pay for it...
MTGTEAM: (February 03, 2011 6:11am)
This message is in response to rayprose statement. How on gods earth can you sit there and tell all of us that the realtors played no part in this. Realtors are just as much as fault as the bankers or mortgage guys. You cant tell me you dont like to see high prices on homes. Higher prices higher commissions for you. Now how did realtors play a part? Let me explain for you. "Dick and Jane" (We will just use these names for the sake of explaining) decided to sell there house for lets say $125,000.00 (Small house) They call you and when they tell you they want $125,000.00 you plant a seed and say. "Is that all your asking?--I think you can probably get more because this is a nice neighborhood and the smiths accross the street sold theres for $205,000. Now gleem and glitter in the eys of Dick and Jane, there thinking, "Wow cool" lets sell ours for that price. Fact--I see it every day out there. There goes the price increase in the neigborhood. Thanks to the realtor.
debtdoctor: (February 03, 2011 6:09am)
Realtors Schmealtors. Eveyone knows it George Bush's fault, along with the illuminati
bcal: (February 03, 2011 5:56am)
Realtors don't set the price, but appraisers and lenders confirm it based on previous sales. I am not a Realtor, but don't blame Realtors for bad appraisals, bad loan programs and weak underwriters.
rayprose: (February 03, 2011 5:25am)
First off HELLLOOOOO.....REALTORS don't set prices like you state in your bit. WE LIVE IN A FREE MARKET SOCIETY where supposedly the MARKET sets the price!!! GREEDY Realtors had NOTHING to do with the melt down. How in the HELL can anyone say that Realtors are at fault??? We just market and sell property we CANNOT SET PRICES. Too high and it doesn't sell, too low and we don't make any money(like now). How about looking at the individuals that actually set the rules in place for these liar loans? Or....are you being paid too much money by your banking backers to take on the banks??? I haven't seen one bit here that suggests that we charge the conspirators at the top with Felony conspiracy for creating this mess. WHY NOT??? When I see the justice department arresting a dozen bankers that created this mess, THEN AND ONLY THEN will I believe justice is being served. Until then SHUT UP! And BTW if you divide 130MM by 18.4MM the percentage is 14% mot 11% get a calculator.
doitright: (February 03, 2011 4:54am)
Tell him to go buy all the foreclosures and get them off the market . Where , what price range, type of home does he think that is it time to buy? Kind of like saying buy stocks that is not a recommendation !What stocks at what price . Way too generic a buy recommendation. Like saying stock up on oranges Florida is going to have a frost , but not all of Florida is effected . But seriously he should just call BOA or Wells and make an offer on all the foreclosures , then hedge that prices will edge up in the next 24 months , double win . By the way we can spread the word but that doesn't change the need . Dont forget refuse to write a mortgage on April 1 and dont call back borrowers until the Fed makes some changes .