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4 the people: (February 08, 2010 7:58am)

Ok, here is the major problem I have with the hvcc. Submit loan to 1 lender, order appraisal, borrower pays 450. Lender denies loan. You wanna resubmit? That appraisal is NOT transferrable to another lender. Borrower just got screwed out of 450. Who is this protecting?

Deedie: (January 13, 2010 4:45pm)

IL APPRAISER. Did that it still does not come up. Could you please email it to me @lighthouseapp@aol.com? Thank you, Deedie

IL APPRAISER: (January 13, 2010 4:07pm)

Deedie, you have to cut and paste short cut to the internet to open.

Deedie: (January 13, 2010 3:57pm)

IL Appraiser. Link does not work for me?

5pence: (January 13, 2010 3:11pm)

Fingers crossed that the HVCC being sunsetted will be implemented as soon as it's signed so we can all get back to work. GLTUA

5pence: (January 13, 2010 3:07pm)

I don't want to mislead anybody, but the signing of it could be in the spring, when the HVCC is actually sunsetted is anybodies guess. Could be that it'll coincide with when the HVCC is supposed to expire, 18 months after it's implementation - I forget which month that might be. Maybe Nov?

5pence: (January 13, 2010 3:04pm)

Il Appraiser-sorry, old news. Dec 21, 2009. It's heading to the Senate now and will be voted on by and signed by the President sometime in the spring, is what I'm getting in following it's progress. Nothing definitive yet. The Senate will want to tear it apart, probably. I'd say we're better than 50/50 to see the HVCC sunsetted by spring. Not soon enough for a lot of us, but I'm glad something is being done about this abomination

IL APPRAISER: (January 13, 2010 2:14pm)

House votes to eliminate HVCC. See Link http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20091221_washingtonreport.htm

IL APPRAISER: (January 13, 2010 2:13pm)

House votes to eliminate HVCC. See Link http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20091221_washingtonreport.htm

ThePhoenix: (January 13, 2010 2:05pm)

5pence, no problem with disagreeing with me, that is what makes us all unique. I would also supplement the statement by saying that if uw were that qualified and conducted a review of each appraisal, why get one? Also, this is about a few, not the many. Most appraiser do a great job. The bad ones, that did harm, also did a great job, too bad it was with false or misleading information. If this was just about poorly done appraisals, the discussion would be over. Some bad guys did a convincing job. Again, a small number but ALL appraisers and mortgage brokers are now the recipients of the harm their actions are bringing forth. It is not fair. Fair or not, the big boys have changed appraisers and mortgage brokers futures and that is not within their control.

BIG AL: (January 13, 2010 12:43pm)

AMC's suck! I've had only one order this year. Soon I will have to sell the house. I had a year of expenses in the bank, now its down to a couple months. The numbers aren't on my side. This is devastating, for me and my family. 17 years of building up your repretation and business with great clients. Thanks to legislation and a continual behind the scene lobbying by the banks, I'm forced out. It could be worse. God help the Haitians.

BIG AL: (January 13, 2010 12:42pm)

AMC's suck! I've had only one order this year. Soon I will have to sell the house. I had a year of expenses in the bank, now its down to a couple months. The numbers aren't on my side. This is devastating, for me and my family. 17 years of building up your repretation and business with great clients. Thanks to legislation and a continual behind the scene lobbying by the banks, I'm forced out. It could be worse. God help the Haitians.

5pence: (January 13, 2010 12:34pm)

Are people really that dumb that they believe the banks when they say as an excuse that they thought home prices would always go up? If any thinking perosn doesn't believe that, why would think they're telling the truth now? They said they've tackled the risk problem with new underwriting standards. Facts : Outsourced U/W to India, hiring the cheapest and fastest appraiser at the lowest fees they can, adopting their own USPAP violating software, stepping up AVM and BPO usage. These are all risk cutting measures? The only risk cutting they've down is requiring a higher credit score and larger down payments from the borrowers. The rest is bull$hit and a cover they're hoping a gullible public will buy so they continue their scams. They're crooks through and through

5pence: (January 13, 2010 12:22pm)

Phoenix, I respectfully disagree. Underwriters and banks review depts were shut down so that liar loans and 125% ltv and no doc loans could go through. Is that the brokers or appraisers fault? Why weren't the banks measuring their risk like they're supposed to. I personally and so sick of the excuse that the banks use that they figured prices would always go up. Total BS! While they were selling these toxic CDO's they were shorting them at the same time. They said they did this morning on CSPAN. Making money on the upside and on the coming downside they knew would happen. Crooks, banksters. Now, my question is, what happened to all the money they made selling these multi-trillion dollar CDO'S? Did they pocket it knowing the government was going to bail them out? Where is it? Did you know that the banks shorted themselves when they were failing and getting taxpayer funds? It's crooked and this is an immoral crisis that traces directly back to the greed of the banks. Follow the money

5pence: (January 13, 2010 12:12pm)

Syracuseappraiser-Who orders the appraisal is of the utmost importance. Appraisers are like fish in a lake all jumping for the same bait the banksters throw in-appraisers will do whatever they want to keep them as a client. There is always that pressure to be a better appraiser for the bank than the next appraiser & hit value or whatever. That's why were divided as a group, the banks keep us at each others throats. Now if the HO orders the appraisal is there any incentive to do whatever they want to keep them as a client? No, None! There's always another client that will call tomorrow. To keep the valuation system honest the work cannot be concentrated into 4 or 5 big entities. The more spread out the client base is the less pressure/influence there is in your work. As it is, the banks control the whole process. If everybody thinks this is a good idea we aught to get together and DEMAND that the homeowner be the client. It's good for the economy, consumers & keeps the banks honest.

Il & IN appraiser: (January 13, 2010 11:06am)

Borrowers orders the appraisal. Where they get the name of the apprasisers. This will create the same problem for appraisers and brokers. They will be picking low price and unexperienced and some the worst apparisers.

syracuseappraiserguy: (January 13, 2010 9:25am)

the lack of relationships between lenders and appraisers is a problem. If a lender (underwriter) got to know the work of an appraiser and a trust was built, we would not need all these "fail safes". But with HVCC, we can't talk to anyone involved...and vise versa...What we need is people with morals on both sides, and that you can't regulate...it has to be cultivated. The system just needs to follow through on penalties for thsoe who abuse the system. All involved need to feel a sense of responsiblity - which is severly lacking.

sus SoCalAppraiser: (January 13, 2010 9:19am)

All. As Appraisers we are not a UNITED GROUP with a National Voice - for the "Small Independent Appraisers". HVCC was a result of WAMU & "eAppraise" - Has HVCC been a positive change in the industry? Most of us say NO. HVCC has opended the door to "Less Appraiser Independence" than prior to HVCC..... If HVCC does not prohibit direct lenders/banks from having Staff appraisers (just how Independent are they they salaried/bonus paid employees). If the Majority of the "AMC" appear to be Owned/Operated by Mortgage Related Organizations & TAVMA - Title/Appraisal Vendor Management Association- a RE Settlement Services Industry (who gave them permission to use "Appraisal" in their name) contracted for a fee based on the number of appraisals completed...is this not considered Commission/Profit Based.... UW & reviews can easily remove the bad appraiser, by simply refusing to accept their work. We need to Keep on Message...with the FACTS. Appraisers & Mark need to present to Cuomo.

syracuseappraiserguy: (January 13, 2010 9:15am)

"ThePhoenix"-if you have been gored as you put it like we appraisers have, of course we are looking for the "why's". There is a system that has always been in place, and only when a problem arises do they ultimately place the blame on appraisers. From my perspective, yes the underwriters do have "red flags", but more importantly with all the data that they have at their disposal today, fraudelent appraisals should be glaring them in the face and they should be recongnizable immediately. After all, an appraisal is only our unbiased professional opinion. I don't think we are in this position because of seperate appraisals on a same property differing by more than a few thousand either way by 2 different appraisers ...we are in this situation because of untrained knowledgible underwriters unable to scope out a bad appraisal submitted by a bad appraiser. The more distance you put between the lender and appraiser in the end will hurt everyone involved. (see next post)

Deedie: (January 13, 2010 8:41am)

I think this is free if you want to check it out. Thank you for registering for the webinar on Turn the New GFE Rules into a Competitive Advantage. If you would like to invite a friend or two to this webinar, please do so using this link. Date: Thursday, January 14 (Add a reminder to your Outlook Calendar) Time: 10:00am Pacific / 1:00pm Eastern To access the webinar, please join us 5-10 minutes before webinar start time: 1. Join the webinar https://www.livemeeting.com/cc/mortgagecoach/join?id=ZKW5F4&role=attend 2. Join the conference call to listen to audio. (712) 432-1001, Access Code: 460056852# -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you are having trouble joining the event, please follow these steps 1. Open an Internet Explorer browser window and enter the following URL: https://www.livemeeting.com/cc/mortgagecoach/join 2. Copy and paste the required information: Meeting ID: ZKW5F4 Entry Code is not required Location: https://www.livemeeting.com/cc/mortgagecoach If you still cannot enter the meeting, test your system to make sure it is ready to participate in the event. The event will be conducted in the Microsoft LiveMeeting environment and you may need to install the application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We look forward to your participation.

ThePhoenix: (January 13, 2010 8:17am)

Underwriters are not appraisers. They are not qualified to analyze value. They are qualified to review the appraisal for red flags and when those red flags are present they will condition for a review, internal or external. Way too much discussion on blame by appraisers on here. Fact is, bad appraisals were submitted to lenders and lenders have been damaged by those bad appraisals. It may not be you but it is your peer group. Personally, I think those bad appraisals are small compared to the losses related to downturn in value which has little to do with appraisers. But, as with any blame game, they start goring anyone in the process. So, you have appraisers being gored... mortgage brokers being gored. Its not fair but what are you going to do about it? Legislators are the ones doing the goring and more important, they are the ones who have the power to legislate. As I said in previous posts, the wise choice is to agree there is an OVERALL problem and even lenders are in it.

SoCalApprs2: (January 13, 2010 8:12am)

MD Appraiser, I can relate to you. Once this HVCC came into being. My two major clients got bought out by the banks, the banks then signed up with an AMC,which they cheerfully told me to join the AMC (which I did) and I am still waiting for my first order from them. Yeah, this HVCC is really working for all of us!

syracuseappraiserguy: (January 13, 2010 8:07am)

Hey, if underwriters would have just done their job correctly, it wouldn't matter who orders the appraisal. Appraisers submitting bogus appraisals would have been snuffed out long ago. We already have all the proper oversight in place it just needs to be followed through on by the underwriters/lenders...not place more oversight on the appraiser with all this smoke and mirrors -and in the process taking money out of appraisers pockets by doing so. INVESTIGATION of underwriters/lenders is where the focus should be, and leave the appraisers alone.

higginson: (January 13, 2010 7:53am)

Syracuse - you've summed it up. We should quit trying to figure out another way when the perfect solution already exists...it just needs to be followed and enforced. For the 6-12 month period prior to HVCC, UW's were scrutinizing every appraisal to death. Although this was a bit painful and overdone, it is how the system should have been working all the time. Appraisers and brokers would learn to work with the guidelines the lenders' UW's have to work with to be Fannie/Freddie compliant. The idea of just utilizing that system as it was is so simple that it's amazing that it's being overlooked. There are far too many people in the communication chain with HVCC and it simply does not work. It's complicated when it doesn't have to be. Brian and Frank, don't be afraid to go with this simple solution instead of all the other nincompoopery that's being thrown against the wall. Death to HVCC.

syracuseappraiserguy: (January 13, 2010 7:43am)

Who orders the appraisal is not the problem! HVCC definitely not needed..anyone can order an appraisal (lender, broker,homeowner). If the lenders own underwriters would just do what they are supposed to do...evaluate the risk as presented by the appraisal. All bogus/fraudulent appraisers would be snuffed out, and not used again by that lender...end of story. Change needs to happen on the underwriting level not on the appraiser level. There are so many regualtions for appraisers in place already..just enforce them. We have made this whole process way too complicated for everyone involved. Every loan obtained by a borrower has to be signed off by an underwriter....right??

Hurtingbroker : (January 13, 2010 7:43am)

We must continue to fight this HVCC business to the very end. And if we don't win then we must continue to fight it! I reaaly like 5pence's ideas

MD appraiser looking for any work, walmart here i come: (January 13, 2010 7:23am)

I am turning down amc requests that do not pay my fee. I am however, 2 moths behind on my office rent, 1 month behind on my house, all the bills are due and no one can help. I understand why appraisers are working for the cheap shot amc's but I will move in with family before I stoop to that level. Actually, after 11 years as an appriaser (and I love appraising) i'm looking for work, ANY work to be able to survive. F*** HVCC, Cummo can burn in hell and all those that support HVCC can go along for the ride. I've lost everything and he sits high on th ehog in NY not giving a damn about the people he has destroyed. Bitter? Hell YES!

brian tbws: (January 12, 2010 8:03pm)

hey guys. we'll get back with you soon. were on our way back from a mortgage rev in atlanta. great time and lots of fun but most importantly good info.

brian tbws: (January 12, 2010 8:02pm)

hey guys. we'll get back with you soon. were on our way back from a mortgage rev in atlanta. great time and lots of fun but most importantly good info.

Don'tThinkWorkCheap: (January 12, 2010 8:02pm)

I think I'm going to start a new web show for appraisers. I think I'll call it Don't Think, Work Cheap. I am an appraiser whose business was ruined by the HVCC. Luckliy, I have since been able to find employment with a Wholesale Lender as a review appraiser. You wouldn't believe the lack of quality work that I get to see day after day. Not just improper comparables but the basic quality of the reports. The incorrect spelling, incorrect data, not bracketing the opinion of value with the comparables utilized, just basic Appraisal 101 stuff and most of it is coming from Certified General and Certified Residential Appraisers who have been in the business for 15+ years. We are using our third AMC because of the lack of quality. I also usually don't view the appraisal until at least 2 weeks after the effective date and then I have to condition the appraisal. I really feel for the brokers who are waiting at least 2 weeks for the appraisal, it's not fair to them and the consumer.

brian tbws: (January 12, 2010 8:02pm)

hey guys. we'll get back with you soon. were on our way back from a mortgage rev in atlanta. great time and lots of fun but most importantly good info.

brian tbws: (January 12, 2010 8:01pm)

hey guys. we'll get back with you soon. were on our way back from a mortgage rev in atlanta. great time and lots of fun but most importantly good info.

5pence: (January 12, 2010 7:34pm)

Kill HVCC, it's a part of the moral crisis that's been taking over America for years. The fiscal crisis is just secondary collateral damage of the immoral crisis.

5pence: (January 12, 2010 7:26pm)

GODLIKE - Are you talking about the links and docs box? Do you see arrows on the top or bottom of that box? Click on them. It's a rolling window banner. If that doesn't work I don't know what to say. Could be your ad blocker is working too well if you don't see GFE 2010 forums/GFE 2010 webinar/SAle training summit/Rate alert

GODLIKE: (January 12, 2010 6:59pm)

Once again guys, THERE IS NO BANNER TO THE RIGHT OF THE MAIN SCREEN! It's just one big empty gray box.

5pence: (January 12, 2010 6:48pm)

I'm sure I'm not 100% right on this. USPAP would have to be tweaked a little-not much. If the government really wanted to protect the consumer they'd have also put the IVPI into effect at the same time as the HAVVOC. They didn't. Our legislature reps are truly out of touch. Bog down the system with more regulations and ignore the simplest and most economical solutions. They must be thinking along the lines of : "There's no money to be made in actually curing disease."

5pence: (January 12, 2010 6:25pm)

As long the banksters/AMC's control the loan process from beginning to end that process will be corrupted. To end pressure of this sort (to make the deal work), anyone in the loan process that is going to make money on the loan (not the HO as they have to pay the principle and interest-the HO doesn't make any money), should be totally out of the beginning of the process. It should be initiated only by the homeowners acting in their own best interests. Absolute control of the process as the banksters/AMC's have now corrupts absolutely. Too big to fail is an abomination in a free market democratic society. It's not a financial crisis - it's a moral crisis and we the taxpayers are paying for a mulititude of their sins. I wonder how many hookers my national debt payments have bought. How many parties. We're supporting an immoral crisis against our will.

5pence: (January 12, 2010 6:07pm)

SoCalApprs2 - uhh yeah LOL! Homeowner = ho. Banks think homeowners are ho's, not appraisers or brokers imo.

5pence: (January 12, 2010 6:02pm)

(continued from previous post) time. It'd be worth it to them to save hassles and money to get the best appraiser they can find. I'd gladly let my local rep and experience dictate my market appeal and fees. So, the ho gets the appraisal and can take it to any bank anywhere as long as the appraiser was state certified. Why not?! Or they can call a broker to get a better rate. This is totally win/win for the consumer and the market. As far as borrowers being ignorant about appraisers, they can search for experience and known skill. Ho's are very knowledgeable these days of the internet, they usually have pretty good idea of what a home is worth before I even show up. The banks need to stop treating the Ho as a simpleton. I guess it's easier to take advantage of them that way. Put the power back in the consumers hands where it belongs. Appraisers collect at the door, brokers get to market and banks do their job of risk assessment. Sounds ideal to me. No skippies & no HVCC necessary.

SoCalApprs2: (January 12, 2010 5:58pm)

5pence..........So we are all clear Ho is abbreviation for Home Owner..........LoL!

5pence: (January 12, 2010 5:51pm)

The whole point of having the homeowner order the appraisal is to get rid of pressure. 1 homeowner acts hinky, you drop them. 1 client gone out of millions. If you lose an AMC you lose hundreds of clients. Look at it this way - the ho gets to pick the roof and pest inspector, so why not the appraiser? They just need a 1 page explanation of their rights and that we are federally protected entities so don't fk around. It's the ho's property that the bank needs to loan on so they can turn that into more loans and more money for them. They are in essence, buying an option to purchase the homeowners property at a later date for up to 80% of the value of the home. IT'S THE HOMEOWNERS COLLATERAL THEY NEED! If the ho were able to order the appraisal they could call brokers all over for the best deal. If the ho thinks they'd be saving money by going with the cheapest appraiser, when it hit U/W and got tossed-having to pay for a new appraisal would certainly teach them quick to get it right the

MJ: (January 12, 2010 5:36pm)

Everyone should contact their appraisal, real estate agent,broker etc board and stand up for your rights. You pay for it. Ask them what do you get for your money Cuomo or Barney at least Reid hit the road and lets do something NOW. Independent or not we all need each other, don't we?????????????? Lets have someone from every state contact our boards and keep us informed and by god follow-up and speak out LOUD.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 5:06pm)

AMCsWillGoDownToo: God willing here is too us all. I am contacting the Florida Appraisal Board as to when their next meeting will be held. I went to several but you have to put forth your concern to be placed on the agenda (at least you get continuing ed points). I am willing to contact them and do as they request. Anybody want to tag along. My prior question was why are the AMCs not licensed and regulated, where does our money go, and what were they doing to protect us. I was refused an answer.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 4:54pm)

Valuequestor: I hope you are not confusing me with that nut case dd my name is Deedie. She must be working for an AMC or ownes one.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 4:49pm)

I lied. I was out in the field. Gsays' We do it is called limited conditions as part of the appraisal assignment.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 4:46pm)

SoCalApprs2:Custom built computer and the Copy and paste thing, easy. Oops I said I would not say another word today.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 4:27pm)

My last post for the day (promise) So the broker/lo/REA/borrower can not contact me (as an appraiser) (and dd I am a licensed sales associate 30 years, insurance adjuster who still thinks you are a nut case) to discuss the appraisal. But the big 5 too big to fail can through their subsidiary (AMCs). Mr Obahma said a couple of weeks ago that we as USA citizens were faced with bankruptcy. (we are not too big to fail) What now?

frozenorange: (January 12, 2010 3:52pm)

the appraisersupport.com website is pretty good. how long can appraisers hang on at those rates?

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 3:50pm)

Joe: I got that when I had to renew to have the designation as a MRA. They no longer had any benefits but I paid (last year anyway) just another hand in my pocket. I guess since they provided me no service I can still call myself a Master Real Estate Appraiser with no repercussions?

SoCalApprs2: (January 12, 2010 3:41pm)

The only choice is to let the appraisers market themselves! If you cannot market yourself, how is the homeowner even going to know you exist? Let me market myself to the public, lender, Realtor and Broker. Period! This solves the whole problem!! Even solves the pricing issue. Give me back my right to do business!!

frozenorange: (January 12, 2010 3:40pm)

why dont the appraisers just strike and shut the whole system down for a while. are they afraid during the strike banks will find avm's to be better? get serious, avm's are a main reason everything got screwed up in the first place.

Owl Tree: (January 12, 2010 3:23pm)

Customer choice...it's the only way to go. It's the only argument that will resonate. Lenders should have an Approved Appraisal list, and brokers should be able to supply the customer with their own list of recommended appraisers. The customer should be able to order off those two lists, or else call any local guy that holds a valid license. The lender in turn should be under no obligation to approve the report, but the customer should own the report - not the lender, not the broker. That way, the customer only pays once - if the appraisal is solid, then someone should approve it, and the deal closes. Once the appraisal is ordered, the broker should have complete authority to discuss the report with the appraiser - e.g., if the underwriter wants additional comps, etc. This would reduce costs, while at the same time allow independent appraisers the ability to get their referral business back.

TabascoJack (OH): (January 12, 2010 3:10pm)

I have just checked out the website and I thank you. It is pathetic what is going on. I talked with an appraiser who I just forwarded this site to. He told me the customer was complaining he had to pay $550 and he rec'd only $250. This same AMC as I mentioned earlier called him asking to re access the value as they felt he was off. He refused and now he is getting no orders. He was receiving 3 per week and now in 30 days he gets none. When you run into cases like this it is quite evident it is being abused.

real appraiser: (January 12, 2010 3:09pm)

As I and others have said before, let the AMC bill the client (Lender) for services performed (ORDER PROCESSING), let appraiser collect from borrower. Both AMC and appraisers get their fees paid by their clients and public does not get gouged BY AMC's, lenders cannot blacklist, but can send bad appraisers to the state for revocation if found with merit. Appraiser gets paid, AMC gets paid their worth, (both deterined by market), lender pays for service rendered, homeowner pays fair price, HUD shows correct fees, Bad appraiser punished and licenses revoked based on severity, MTG brokers chose appraisers, Lender chooses review appraisers, NO AMC REVIEW APPRAISERS as this violates USPAP, Plenty of fair business for everyone. If banks want to get rid of appraiser, they must show just cause and let LIC Authority handle punishments, Banks caught doing things against appraisers, borrowers, competing brokers, LOSE right to lend in state for a period of time. FAIR TRADE for all, WAY TOO SIMPLe!!

Owl Tree: (January 12, 2010 3:06pm)

The borrower has to be empowered to order the appraisal directly...that's the only way to provide the political cover to improve the process. The Broker should be permitted to recommend an appraiser, but give the borrower the ability to pull the trigger. Let the customer order, pay for, and own the appraisal, and mandate portability, and the problem is 99% solved. Frankly, I'd prefer if the customer handled the appraisal process before they even call me to take their application....I'm sick and tired of appraisal hassles. I don't even want to waste my time on playing "Let's Guess How Much Your House Is Worth" anymore.

WV Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 2:58pm)

TobascoJack - Check out our website!! Thats exactly what we are trying to do at www.appraisersupport.com

WV Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 2:58pm)

TobascoJack - Check out our website!! Thats exactly what we are trying to do at www.appraisersupport.com

TabascoJack: (January 12, 2010 2:52pm)

If the Gov't wants true transparency then why not do this: List cost of appraisal and cost of having to go through AMC. This way everyone knows what the AMC is taking in. This will expose this shady practice

real appraiser: (January 12, 2010 2:48pm)

To all of you that worked honestly over the past decade plus, who now are getting the brunt of a bad deal, let B&F know that we have been here since the start to get rid of this, anything less is an obvious attempt to sell their own agenda, can you say RATE ALERT, C'mon, HVCC is at deaths door, google, bing or yahoo "HVCC" and see how much negative news is there that was'nt a few months ago. KILL THIS THING, already. Sorry, It is how I see it, ALL of us who are honest, did not deserve to be lumped with the cancers in our own professions, DO THE RIGHT THING, so few of us have a voice, I as an appraiser would fight harder, but we are a small group, nothing like the NAR or NAMB and we all know that AI has their own agenda and I am not and will never be a member, I counted on you guys, please do not let us down!!!!!

IL APPRAISER: (January 12, 2010 2:38pm)

HVCC/AMC’s added another level of bureaucracy but done little to improve the quality of the appraisal or foster any greater appraisal independence. HVCC has made appraisers more dependent upon the few major AMC’s for work. The AMC computer reviews, desk reviews and underwriting scrutiny focus more on form than substance concentrating more on additional narrative comments than to the validity of the final estimated value opinion given by a professional appraiser. Such requests seldom result in any change in value but serve only to create the illusion that AMC’s are policing and adding value to the report; whereas, they merely delay the report and loan processing. AMC’s have contributed to the loss of experienced mortgage brokers, loan officers, appraisers and support staff; delayed appraisal and loan transactions; and, increased appraisal time and cost to consumers without making any significant contribution to the quality of appraisals or overall mortgage loan transactions.

avm's are best, not: (January 12, 2010 2:32pm)

damn straight, real appraiser. these guys are folding.

real appraiser: (January 12, 2010 2:23pm)

Oh, by the way, is not fighting the HVCC one of your "fighting every avenue to get rid of it". first it was "get rid of HVCC", then "lets work with Cuomo", now we are at "should the fight against HVCC come to an end?" WTF, What are you guys?, french. You guys show that everyone has an agenda, even you. If it suits you, go ahead, sell out. I thought you were different, Frank, Brian dont look now, your true nature is showing, Sorry, it is how I see it!. I must have misread the petition, I thought it said "get rid of HVCC". I would not have signed the "lets give up after it does not suit us anymore" petition.

real appraiser: (January 12, 2010 2:10pm)

Use the old system, let lender underwriters do their job, lenders make plenty of money, the (old) system in place worked and failed since lenders used AVMS, pushed poor underwriting and did not turn in bad appraiser to the state. The old system worked, they CHOSE not to use it out of greed.

avm's are best, not.: (January 12, 2010 1:50pm)

msapp, hopefully that works out for you. I have a couple good friends in comm. elec. and do well enough to have two toppings on their pizza on sunday nights. I also may do a few hear and there but the 135-200 fee stuff is for the birds. I have all afternoon to write on this forum since my work is currently being completed by someone living at their mom's house. best regards.

Gmoney: (January 12, 2010 1:45pm)

The old system is the best system but have lenders approval all appraisers that provide work. AVM's are terrible

Gmoney: (January 12, 2010 1:43pm)

What company did those 3 gay LO's work for?

James the Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 1:37pm)

Hello All, let the owner/buyer order and pay the appraiser, nice idea. Have not had a call all month, lost all my clients over the past 2 years. My son it going into the Navy in June, said there just is no work and they will pay for his college that I can not at this time. Well, if the system stays this way he may be the only family member with a roof over his head at the end of the year. I have $150,000 EQ in my home, so the bank (BoA) would love to see me start missing payments.

MSappraiser: (January 12, 2010 1:36pm)

AVM'S ARE BEST, NOT: I too am making a career change. Going back to former employer & position. MS forced me to leave old job in 2000 but have slowly improved last couple of years, not cured but doing good enough to go back to old job (construction electrician). I plan to still do appraisals for atorneys, realtors, the county, etc. Even the occasional AMC if they will pay a reasonale fee. Hey Frank & Brian, I have a meeting with employer (PG&E) on Thurs. just up the road from you in Vacaville. Will you be back in town by then?

avm's are the best, not: (January 12, 2010 1:12pm)

amc's will go down, you and I sing to the same tune. haha

AMCsWillGoDownToo: (January 12, 2010 1:05pm)

I know what I'm going to do for my new career! Grow medical marijuana! God knows we are all going to need it for the anxiety this industry is causing us.

WV Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 1:00pm)

Just wanted to add this site again, appraisersupport.com. This site is in its infancy and has already had three AMC's call the owner and ask to have their information taken off the site. Please pass this info out to all your clients, friends, peers. This will not end the HVCC , but it will certainly expose the crookedness of the AMC's. If you have any information showing what AMCs are paying and charging, please send it to me at jordan@valleycreekappraisal.com

AMCsWillGoDownToo: (January 12, 2010 12:58pm)

AMV'S ARE THE BEST, NOT: Thank you for proving my point. Great job - on the new job!

Valueboy: (January 12, 2010 12:55pm)

Having the borrower order appraisals is the worst idea ever. Borrowers have no idea who's a good/bad appraiser and what's a good/bad appraisal. There's a better and simple solution to the problem. Keep the current HVCC/AMC system but "don't" let the AMC collect the appraiser's fee. Have the borrower pay the appraiser directly. By doing so the AMC will no longer be motivated to hire the cheapest person possible. The AMC will now be free to hire the best appraisers because they are not paying the appraiser a split from their fee. AMC's would charge the lender or mortgage broker a "management" fee to manage the order. This simple solution could change the entire industry for the better real fast. Banks and Mortgage brokers are free to choose any AMC they want, and if a AMC is known for having lousy appraisers, then pick another one that has a better reputation for "referring good appraisers".

AMV'S ARE THE BEST, NOT: (January 12, 2010 12:53pm)

I AGREE "AMC'S WILL GO DOWN". IVE BEEN IN OTHER INDUSTRIES AND HAVE STARTED OTHER PROFITABLE BUSINESS VENTURES THAT I HAVE BEEN FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO SELL TO LARGER COMPANIES. I THOUGHT GETTING AN APPRAISAL LICENSE WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA, AND AT FIRST IT WAS, BUT NOT FOR VERY LONG. NO OFFENSE TO ANYBODY, BUT A LOT OF THIS INDUSTRY IS A JOKE, AND APPRAISERS NOT STANDING UP FOR THEMSELVES IS PATHETIC. I HAVENT BEEN DOING THIS AS LONG AS SOME OF YOU, BUT I KNOW THAT THIS INDUSTRY IS NO LONGER PROFITABLE AND WILL BE A THING OF THE PAST. I NOW DEDICATE VERY LITTLE TIME TO APPRAISING AND MUCH MORE TIME SELLING DEVICES INDEPENDENTLY FOR LARGE COMPANIES. ITS AMAZING- THE SALES WORLD IS SO MUCH MORE PROFITABLE, AND FILLED WITH PEOPLE THAT WILL NOT CUT YOU OFF AT THE DROP OF A HAT WITHOUT JUST REASON. GOOD LUCK TO THOSE THAT STICK WITH IT. THIS BUSINESS IS NO LONGER FOR THE ENTREPRENURIAL SPIRIT.

MSappraiser: (January 12, 2010 12:53pm)

BTW Only paid for first $780K ($100K high)appraisal. HVCC has made appraisals more accurate? Yeah right.

Rob in AZ: (January 12, 2010 12:45pm)

Unfortunately having the Borrower choose the Appraiser will not satisfy the primary requirement for ordering an Appraisal in the first place: ensuring the Lender is properly secured with assets, against which it places a Lien (Mortgage). Appraisals were NEVER intended to benefit the Buyers. If Buyers want an Appraisal, they should order one. However there is no way this Appraisal would satisfy my requirement if I were lending you my money. Think about it. F&B--I like very much that you are trying to come up with new solutions! Thank you. Unfortunately this particular one is DOA.

MSappraiser : (January 12, 2010 12:44pm)

Refied my home 11/09, local appraiser came in at $789K. $75-$100K high IMO. Couple months later wife (RE broker) & I realized we should have done an equity line at that time. Tried to work with Wells Fargo, AMC drive-by appraisal came in at $450K. $450K would not work with loan program we wanted to use ($260K balance on existing loan). Complained to Wells that a drive-by would not work in our area (all homes are custom built on .50 - 15+ acres). Wells sent an out of area appraiser to do a full int./ext. appraisal. Came in at $500K & had sq. ft. & drawing errors, a comp that was a gutted REO, all comp photos from MLS, bizarre adjustments, some even in the WRONG direction, etc. Informed Wells of all this, they said they would stand by their AMC appraiser. Told Wells to KMA. Went to another lender, told them that a drive-by would'nt work. Did an AVM-$360K. Finally an experianced appraiser on a full 1004 cam in @ $650K. OK, 780K, 450K, 500K, $360K, 650K. Same home in 4 mo. DEATH to HVCC

AMCsWillGoDownToo: (January 12, 2010 12:43pm)

At this pace, there will soon be very few qualified appraisers left...as the smart ones are in the process of changing professions. This once was a semi-lucrative job. No longer. Between HVCC, AVMs, and BPOs - the appraisal business is being systimatically wiped out. What will the lenders (who put HVCC in place) do then? I know exactly..they will use thier influence (again) and change the system so that they can simply use the less expensive AVM and/or BPO. The AMC will be gone too. It's not about value accuracy...it is about the bottom line $$$$. We appraisers don't need to do an AMC strike (won't work anyway because there are way too many desparate appraisers now). We need to simply wake up and make a career change. Use this time to start doing something you always wanted to try...You will be happier in the end and the lenders and AMCs will get what's coming to them. That's exactly what this appraiser's doing. 20 years appraising - it is time for a change anyway.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 12:42pm)

I am as much to blame as they who did not question that statement as I should have been strong enough to raise the question FOR them. Shame on me. gotta go and try and do some work.

ThePhoenix: (January 12, 2010 12:41pm)

I guess I am little amazed by the response on this. The legislators no longer care what mortgage brokers and appraisers think about all of this. They see them as the problem, not a source for the solution. That is what happens in these situations. The best that they can hope to start pointing other fingers at where the problem is. Lets be honest, the banks and mortgage bankers are just as much of the problem as they jammed product through so they could securitize it and put the risk on the investors. Giving them the keys to chicken coop also does not make sense. So... a central clearinghouse, that does not set fees on how much the appraiser can earn that everyone must order appraisals through is the best choice as no one gets to control anyone. However, the banks and mortgage bankers have no problem throwing the mortgage brokers in front of the bus to deflect their own misguided policies. Mortgage brokers and appraisers should be throwing them in front of the bus too.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 12:40pm)

I was at a seminar on Mortgage Fraud with a speaker from the R.I.C.S.He let slip the designated appraiser statement as a bullet point at the very end of his presentation and it was scooted over soooo fast I almost missed it, but no one bothered to put up their hands to question it.I am designated so I dont care either way,but if implemented it would put 75% of appraisers in the room out of business.I was so annoyed that no one bothered to question that statement(from the non designated)that I didnt raise my hand to contest it either.

Valuequestor: (January 12, 2010 12:34pm)

Joecolorado: My friend, you showed amazing patience in responding to "dd"....stands for?? I am nominating you for the "AG" designation for you are considered an Appraisal God by your peers. Pause....new thought. Sometimes this forum needs a good flushing.

hankNOtank: (January 12, 2010 12:28pm)

how many loans are completed without an appraiser? it's unbelievable what appraisers have, and will put up with. Appraisers as of right now, are an irreplaceable resource. Why are they acting lawncare companies? Oh I know why. its because they get paid the same, nevermind. OH, and no offense to my yard guy.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 12:27pm)

Deedie-The Appraisal Institute and The American Society of Appraisers have already ENDORSED HVCC! additionally they want ALL appraisals to be completed by licensed AND designated appraisers in their organizations. So dont think for a second that the AI and ASA are here to help ANYONE outside their orgs, in fact its exactly the opposite. The AI and ASA are myopically trying to ensure their orgs survival by getting the powers that be to mandate that ALL appraisers become a member of their societies and ALL appraisers MUST be designated and licensed to complete an appraisal.Dont trust these guys....they are the enemy and I know I belonged to the AI and I am a current member of the ASA(but not for long).All of us will be out of work if they get their way,but they will have a flourishing membership 'cos there will be no choice.

Jersey Girl: (January 12, 2010 12:25pm)

HVCC can Kiss it - I would have no problem going to picket, going on strike, etc. The problem is, you need to UNITE to get that done. There will still be appraisers out there doing the work for peanuts...some appraisers are not willing to fight or do anything about it. Trust me, I've spoken to plenty of them over the past few months.

SoCalApprs2: (January 12, 2010 12:24pm)

SwampRat- I was an AMC, paying appraisers 70% of the fee, (including full trip fees) Prior to May 1st of 2009. The Banks will not use an AMC not owned or controlled by them. After May 1st, we received zero orders!! Now, the lovely state of California wants to bang me for a tune of over $2,000 a year to be a state licensed AMC. As a result, my partner and I cannot continue to even try to compete as an AMC. Again, to all you, this is madness. If I wanted to work for someone else, I would have joined an AMC back in the day and be totally happy. I like sales. I like marketing my business. I like meeting and getting new clients. I cannot do this at all anymore!! Why are we allowing a 3rd party system to take my fee and give me work, only on their terms?

Gsays: (January 12, 2010 12:22pm)

have the appraiser's sign a form that states that NOBODY has influenced their decision, NO MATTER who orders the appraisal, and allow either lender or borrower to order appraisal. because what if a borrower has a family member who is an appraiser and he could be influenced by family. Appriaser's need to be accountable for their work, just like most everyone on the planet, bad appraisers need to look for other work, I used to have great appraisers, now I have no idea who is doing the work. maybe we need an HVCC for contractors, realtors and lenders, a random loan person picked by a 3rd party. you may get a good lender and agent, or not! but you will still pay their commissions.

Mookhater: (January 12, 2010 12:20pm)

Where do you think the borrower will get the appraiser's name???? Duh. Mook

SoCalApprs2: (January 12, 2010 12:12pm)

How does Deedie get to post more than a thousand words at a time? LoL!

BigB: (January 12, 2010 12:11pm)

Swamp, long as the independance and ownership rules still applied - like you said if it were through an association, that not a bad idea, How would sell your service to lenders, on the fact that its owned and operated by exerienced appraisers in the business?

BigB: (January 12, 2010 12:11pm)

Swamp, long as the independance and ownership rules still applied - like you said if it were through and association, that not a bad idea, How would sell your service to lenders, on the fact that its owned and operated by exerienced appraisers in the business?

SwampRat: (January 12, 2010 12:05pm)

Why don't the appraisers, through their association, set up their own AMCs, then go to the lenders and "sell" their service to the lender?

BigB: (January 12, 2010 11:57am)

Borrowers ordering appraisals is one of the craziest things I have heard yet from these guys yet. I already get enough calls from homeowners that should not be contacting me from an AMC appraisal. The latest complaint "my house is worth more than the comparables in the report" --I ask "why", his response "its closer to the gas station". true story. I added 5k b/c he didnt have to walk as far on lottery friday, just kidding.

BigB: (January 12, 2010 11:45am)

me too, I had company call me yesterday wanting a 1004 for 135, and drive by for 60. they said those fees were competative for my area. If they were competative why were they calling me. My part time job is sweet - no stress, I enjoy what I do, and basically get paid the same amount after all is said and done. I just lost another amc b/c my fee of 300, was now "mandated" to 275 by the lenders. I asked how all the lenders came to this agreement, no response yet. It amazes me how much power appraisers have in this market, but refuse to use it for the good of themselves, eachother, and honestly everyone involved in a transaction. After dealing with amc's for a while, plowing snow all night with a cup of coffee and a decent radio is a breath of fresh air that I will take anyday over the liability, hassle, and terrible hours an amc can provide.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 11:42am)

VALUATION REVIEW 01/12/2010 Appraisal groups join call for chief appraiser Four of the largest professional appraisal groups joined forces to call on the Department of the Interior to hire a chief appraiser, following a critical audit of the department’s appraisal system. Find out more here. (1/12/2010) In this article: Department of the Interior Appraisal Institute Chief Appraiser Appraisal Services Directorate Four of the largest professional appraisal groups have joined the call for a chief appraiser to be hired by the Department of the Interior, following a damning audit of the department’s appraisal system released earlier in January. A letter was sent to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar by a group led by the Appraisal Institute and including the American Society of Appraisers, the American Society of Farm Managers and Rural Appraisers and the National Association of Independent Fee Appraisers. In the letter, the groups call for a full-time, qualified chief appraiser to lead the Department of the Interior’s appraisal system, which came under heavy fire in an audit by the Office of the Inspector General, as reported on by Valuation Review here. The current appraisal system is overseen by the Appraisal Services Directorate (ASD), the office created in 2003 to handle all the appraisal needs for acquiring and selling land and property on behalf of the Department of the Interior and its bureau clients. The Office of the Inspector General found, among other faults, the ASD was let down by a lack of consistent leadership, as the position of chief appraiser has been held on a temporary basis since 2006. The report stated: “Unfortunately, this lack of consistent, competent, and empowered leadership remains to date as the department decided not to proceed with the selection of a new ASD chief appraiser in June 2009. Instead, in October 2009, the chief appraiser’s position was once against placed in the hands of yet another temporary caretaker.” The letter sent by the appraisal groups strongly agreed with the recommendation that the report makes for a fully qualified chief appraiser for the ASD. “It is critical for the ASD to be lead by a competent appraiser with technical, business and customer service expertise,” it stated. “We emphatically endorse the Inspector General’s recommendation that a ‘strong and competent chief appraiser be selected to lead further change within ASD and to provide a single point of contact, offer sound judgment and have final decision authority on appraisal matters.’” You can read the evaluation report by the Office of the Inspector General here. Would you like to order a reprint of this story? Click here to find out how. COMMENT BOX DISCLAIMER:

SimpleSolution: (January 12, 2010 11:34am)

BigB-I agree. I have actually taken a part time job outside of the industry until I can go back to getting my full fees. I don't work for AMC's. Refuse to...

BigB: (January 12, 2010 11:28am)

the solution is too easy, appraisers stop doing appraisals for a while, your not getting paid jack anyway - so whats the difference. Youre licensed, act like it. There is no cheap labor from south of the border to replace you. Review appraisers get off your high horse and stop ripping your peers to shreds, you may not be as smart as you think, and karma sucks. As a broker, I cannot believe how ball-less appraisers are and are willing to take the scraps "the man" throws at them. Get a pair, tell amc's to stick for a while, and start making the 500 you deserve for your time and liability. If not, have fun in your uncle's basement playing xbox.

Denice Rochelle (Seattle Realtor girlie girl): (January 12, 2010 11:25am)

These articulate, broad spectrum discussions from *regular peeps on the street* in our industry spanning the nation are invaluable. Intelligent voices of individuals really can create a grassroots revolution in all areas of our whacky industry. Let's keep meeting & talkin'.

SimpleSolution: (January 12, 2010 11:17am)

CAAppraiser-I agree. I don't think Mark, Brian or Frank asked any appraisers about this solution. I really hope that is not what they go to Cuomo with.

Lola: (January 12, 2010 11:11am)

I love that these guys are at the Summit but yet in the back ground there are not any people around just a TV playing Judge Joe Brown.... Seriously I love what you guys are doing for me the small business woman.

Hard*ss: (January 12, 2010 11:10am)

Give IT UP!!! I told all months ago!! Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change. the courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference!!! HVCC will not change until the BIG BANKS want the change. We are small potatoes to these guys. Adapt or or be let behind. You guys have wasted precious time and engery. Meanwhile some of us are actually working.

JEP: (January 12, 2010 11:07am)

I don't think HVCC is going to be a problem much longer. Things will soon go the way of the HAMP program which uses AVM's

FBN: (January 12, 2010 10:49am)

I just received the winter addition of Working RE magazine.In it is an article "Diary of a Happy (AMC) Appraiser". This knucklehead Texas appraiser states that he's happy that he doesn't make $100K/year anymore and is satisfied doing appraisals in the $300 range for AMCs. Hell, 13 years ago I was charging $300. I guess the cost of living has gone down in Texas. The only way to stop the HVCC is for all appraisers to go on strike and refuse any AMC work. Things would change very quickly if somehow we could organize to do this.

FBN: (January 12, 2010 10:49am)

I just received the winter addition of Working RE magazine.In it is an article "Diary of a Happy (AMC) Appraiser". This knucklehead Texas appraiser states that he's happy that he doesn't make $100K/year anymore and is satisfied doing appraisals in the $300 range for AMCs. Hell, 13 years ago I was charging $300. I guess the cost of living has gone down in Texas. The only way to stop the HVCC is for all appraisers to go on strike and refuse any AMC work. Things would change very quickly if somehow we could organize to do this.

mtggirl: (January 12, 2010 10:36am)

AMEN to simplesolution

CAAppraiser: (January 12, 2010 10:33am)

Borrowers ordering appraisals is ten times worse than HVCC.

Big AL: (January 12, 2010 10:18am)

Simple Solution. I think its started with the SAFE ACT, however USPAP should be a part of an Agents/Brokers education. I think Congress is incapable of simple solutions and this will be a hard fought battle. We as appraiser's are inherintly independent and will never band together. We just hope Congress will do something to help us. I've written to my representives and just get standard letters back as if they understand. I know they don't even read my letters or emails. They are in another world. Small business need help and were just not getting it. The big banks are winning and always will. I'm praying for a miracle. I think only a devine intervention will change things.

SimpleSolution: (January 12, 2010 10:16am)

MCHAMMER-Agreed. Borrowers ordering appraisals would only make things worse. Borrowers ordering appraisals is not a good solution!! Frank and Brian you said that you were going to run your solution by some appraisers. I find it hard to believe that any appraiser agreed to this solution.

NWLender: (January 12, 2010 10:09am)

I'm glad that 81% of us voted to continue the fight against HVCC. It's the single piece in the recent legislative onslaught that has caused the most problems. Kill it!

SimpleSolution: (January 12, 2010 10:09am)

Todd-The brokers and loan officers would still be choosing the appraiser. That is my point. It doesn't make sense to have the homeowner order the appraisal as most appraisers aren't listed in the phone book and most people don't have a regular appraiser that they use and even if they do who says that appraiser will do a good job as borrowers have no clue as to what is a quality appraisal and what is not. So in that case the broker/loan officer will of course advise the borrower on who to use and still be in communication with the appraiser. This is the United States of America in no other industry is someone told that they can not communicate with another human being. It should not be about cutting out the communication it should be about education. We are not children.

Enlightened : (January 12, 2010 10:09am)

The solution is simple.....go work as an appraiser for a bank. They are like congress, they set the rules and then exclude themselves. Go give the bank the figure they want and then the "appraisal" is done. No worries because the rules don't apply to them...........no appraisals, no worries, no need for professionalism............just paperwork.

Enlightened : (January 12, 2010 10:08am)

The solution is simple.....go work as an appraiser for a bank. They are like congress, they set the rules and then exclude themselves. Go give the bank the figure they want and then the "appraisal" is done. No worries because the rules don't apply to them...........no appraisals, no worries, no need for professionalism............just paperwork.

MCHAMMER - CA APPRAISER: (January 12, 2010 10:06am)

Borrowers ordering appraisals would be worse than your typical mortgage broker in terms of pressure on appraiser. 90% of homeowners believe their home is worth more than it actually is.

BillyBeroux2010: (January 12, 2010 10:04am)

HVCC is a disaster resulting in higher costs to consumers, negatively impacting housing and providing no proof that it does what it was intended to do; prevent appraisal fraud! HVCC has destroyed the practices of countless honest appraisers effectively stripping them of the referral bases they have built over many years and handing over their ability to earn income to a third party appraisal management company with no evidence of a better finished product and while HVCC was designed to take the mortgage broker out of the appraisal process, as a mortgage broker I am now more involved than ever before. Invariably I find myself having to provide comparable sales data to the appraisal management company when the appraiser they hired completely missed and/or ignored relevant data. Had I not done the appraiser's job my clients' loan gets denied. Is this helping the anyone? Solution: Return to pre HVCC and have lenders institute more stringent in house appraisal review processes.

Todd R. Hathorne: (January 12, 2010 9:54am)

If the buyers/borrowers order the appraisal, who would choose the appraiser/

RAJ444: (January 12, 2010 9:54am)

Frank and Brian, Your right that the YSP doesn't HAVE to go in box 1, it only goes there if you actually want to MAKE IT! If you dont put it there it is all credited to the buyer. You can of course just put part of it if you want, none of it if you want or all of it. It is now considered part of your origination and you credit it back to the buyer down below which offsets it to the buyer. Once again, if you dont show it there, you dont get it! You guys might want to rethink that one.

SimpleSolution: (January 12, 2010 9:44am)

Big AL-Exactly make USPAP be part of their licensing requirements just as it is ours then we will all be on the same page. It really is that simple.

SimpleSolution: (January 12, 2010 9:42am)

To put is simply-Anyone who is ordering an appraisal needs to be licensed. After putting money and schooling into getting licensed anyone in their right mind at least will think twice before doing anything illegal with an appraiser.

Big AL: (January 12, 2010 9:39am)

Think USPAP. I never thought of it as pressure from agents or brokers. It's a lack of education about USPAP. We as appraiser's are drilled with it every year. Every year it changes, so you have to keep up with it. Most agents and Brokers don't know USPAP and that is why they ask the questions they do. Just enlighten them with our guidelines and they understand. Its a learning process that some of them need and some don't. Its not pressure, just a lack of knowledge is how I approach it. If they get it and then they can rely on your opinion for a long lasting relationship. If not you didn't need them anyway. I never looked at it as pressure? As an appraiser its part of the job. Keep your head held high, keep your pride by explaining USPAP to you clients that lack the knowledge. Say good bye to those that don't. We never needed HVCC. Since working for AMC's in May, I've earned, $550 in June, no work for July, August and Sept. Oct.$600, Nov.$1,500 & Dec.$2,400. Can't even pay the bills.

SimpleSolution: (January 12, 2010 9:38am)

Frand and Brian-I don't think having the homeowner order the appraisals will help. All that will happen is the loan officer will give the borrowers his/her appraisers name and still be in communication with the appraiser(Cuomo will know that) or the homeowner will just go pick an appraiser out of the phone book not knowing turn time etc. and will still cause problems I think for brokers. I think the loan officer should be able to order but needs to be licensed then there will be more for them to lose. Fines, license revoked etc. and will think twice before trying to pull anything illegal with the appraiser and again appraisers need to have their own back bones and not fold under pressure.

A Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 9:35am)

Manny, you are so right!! This is socialism. Many of our colleagues are eating it up. These people are dangerous to the independant business. Not only our industry but all independent business. This could be a catalyst to many other industries. I SAY WE STOP IT RIGHT HERE AND NOW!!!!

Allison 30yr appraiser : (January 12, 2010 9:33am)

All of you need to forward this conversation on to someone, anyone. I just sent it to elrushbo@eib.net me@glennbeck.com

Stingray: (January 12, 2010 9:29am)

We talk about the $150 AMC appraisal fee and act like we'd be so grateful for $350. Holy crap, people! $350 is a ten year old fee!! Simple cost of living increases place our current fees at $475 - do the math. I think the AMC's and Banks know this. Brokers don't want to hear it, but we are waaaay behind on fee increases already. The AMC fiasco has just exploited and worsened our situation. I have held firm and not done one AMC deal. Between non-lender work and FHA, My avg. fee per deal is $436 for the year - not bad. After Feb 15th, I may be hit very hard, but will not work for low-fee AMC's.

clulessdad: (January 12, 2010 9:26am)

SoCalAppr2-you are so right. HVCC is a restraint of trade, completely illegal.

A Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 9:25am)

IL Appraiser, Why is not ok for anyone who wants to order an appraisal to order an appraisal? Are you saying appraisers are out of control greedy pigs and given the oppertunity will screw anyone given any chance. This is the corner whinning about our indusrty has put us into. Appraisers, this is the hat we are wearing if you have not noticed. This comes primarily from ourselves. We are our own worst enemy. Many of our colleagus like it that way because this is the only way they can get business. They don't know how to market themselves or there business so they rely on guidlines, regulation and organization like the appraisal institute to keep them in business. Most cases the market has already weeded them out not because they were not hitting numbers because they did not know what the hell they are doing!!! I have so many clients comming to me with reports that are so atrocious. You ask yourself how this person is working, HVCC is how. (continue)

SoCalApprs2: (January 12, 2010 9:20am)

Frank and Brian- Video is nearing the start up point. Will keep you updated when we start. Taking a little time to put together all the pieces but it is happening.

Manny: (January 12, 2010 9:07am)

HVCC IS SOCIALISM!!!! IT SHOULD GO TO HELL.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 9:06am)

Nither-I understand your frustration with the system,I am in it with you,but there are appraisers out there that should go back to their previous employment.I have been an appraiser out of high school and I am 57 now,I have had problem appraisals,everybody has.I can defend my figures and I have absolutely no problem with explaining to a buyer my opinion of value and why it may not coincide with theirs.They are paying for that right.BUT I dont give a value lightly on any of my appraisals for any reason,I take pride in my work,I give good value for the fee,and I am worth what I charge.I take constructive criticism and learn from it,butI will not be pressured on my figure as it is a figure I can defend.If you want a certain amount then you need to do an appraisal,get your own figure that you can defend.I am good at my job and hate what is happening to our profession by outsiders.AND WE LET THEM.

Evil Genius: (January 12, 2010 9:03am)

Personally, I like the new GFE. It is a worthless piece of garbage, but brings to light the exact opposite response the bank lobby wanted.

P.O.d Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 9:02am)

I agree, HVCC needs to go. Primarily due to the fact that the only thing it does is put another hand in the till, costs the consumer, puts undue hardship on all parties involved. AMC's are going to use the appraisers that get there clients what they want, if not there clients will find an AMC that will. Again its just another hand in the pot and a regulation QUOMO was hoping would help catipult him to govenor or a sentate seat. Just politics and the little guys at the bottom get packed down for him to stand on. KEEP FIGHTING.

Evil Genius: (January 12, 2010 9:02am)

This might make the broker community feel a little bit better about RESPA.....hopefully. Got my first GFE Comparison. One from a large local mortgage banker, one from a big bank and mine. Borrower looked at line one and said, wow that is a big number on yours. I said yes, that represents a portion of your closing costs and what the investor pays me for originating the loan, you can see that amount subtracted out in line two. Borrower says, ok, I see, that makes sense, why is it not on the other two GFE's? Well, i said, the bankers have a very strong lobby in washington that precludes them from disclosing what they are making on a loan. Borrower said, how are they making money? Went on to explaing how YSP and SRP works, showed him the ratesheet and extrapulated what the other two were making with .250 and .375 higher in rate. Borrower said, wow that should be criminal. I just chuckled and said, funny thing is, they make me out to be the criminal.Personally, I like the new GFE.

AZWOLF: (January 12, 2010 9:01am)

You guys provide great info. The Mortgage Professional is a quality control company and is making money on HVCC reporting for full compliance. GUYS READ YOUR LINKS.....THIS GUYS IS MAKING MONEY BY QUALITY CONTROLL ON HVCC COMPANIES...HE ALSO DOES NOT WANT THE 4173, THE TERMINATION OF THE HVCC IS ATTACHED TO HR 4173. THE HVCC WILL GO AWAY, COMO SHOULD TRY TO MAKE IT RIGHT APPRAISERS ARE GOING OUT OF BUSINESS...

SoCalApprs2: (January 12, 2010 8:54am)

Look. The bottom line is I need to be able to market my business to any broker, Realtor or lender that I want to do business with. Period. End of Story!! HVCC takes that away from me!! Would you like if when you need your care repaired, you had to go to an Automotive Management Company and let them select who will get to fix your car? And then you the consumer pays full pop to get your car fixed, the AMC gets to pocket part of your fee and the Mechanic get less than half? Is anyone awake out there? KILL HVCC!! PERIOD!!

IL APPRAISER: (January 12, 2010 8:53am)

Allowing borrowers to select appraisers and order appraisals is a bad idea because borrowers are unaware of the appraisal guidelines and have a vested interest in the loan transaction regardless of any certification to the contrary. The primary purpose of the appraisal is to obtain an independent opinion of value from a professional independent appraiser. Appraisers already certify that the appraisal is unbiased and prepared without influence from any interested party to the transaction, viz: APPRAISER CERTIFICATIONS FROM FANNIE MAE URAR FORM 1004 REPORT 16. I stated in this appraisal report my own personal, unbiased, and professional analysis, opinions, and conclusions, which are subject only to the assumptions and limiting conditions in this appraisal report. 17. I have no present or prospective interest in the property that is the subject of this report, and I have no present or prospective personal interest or bias with respect to the participants in the transaction. I

Appraiser Fred: (January 12, 2010 8:53am)

HVCC was designed to kill off the mortgage broker so that the banks can control everything. The AMCs are not going away. The barn door is open and the brokers and appraisers are taking the hit. My 18 years of appraisal experience is worth zilch, my income is down 90% from a few years ago. I thought FHA would be my salvation but those idiots are on the HVCC bandwagon also. There is no viable business model for appraisers or brokers. RIP appraisers and brokers.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 8:52am)

Nither-I dont act as a value god,but then again I have the experience and qualifications to give a qualified opinion.As I have said earlier,If you dont like my opinion then get one of your own.Its not rocket science,its another check the investors use to try and ensure the safety of their investment thats all. The appraisers you seem to have encountered apparently act like value gods,some are,I am not,but do they give a good value for the property or one that fits(or doesnt fit)your needs?I can defend my value,thats all I am concerned about,I can sleep at night knowing that there is no issue with my opinion of value with me.I dont care what your opinion is of the same property,just that you can defend your value in an audit.I can do that.Dont get me wrong there are a**hole appraisers out there that ARE value gods,but if the market dictates the figure,why be a god?just tell it like it is.I do.BUT If it wont work, it wont work,not acting like a god wont help in some matters,thats life.

RC45: (January 12, 2010 8:48am)

It almost makes you feel like the government officials have one agenda; to screw up America as much as they can. I understand that there are things wrong with the whole process. From the buyer/seller/realtor to the broker/appraiser/title co. To think that more bureaucracy, rules and regulations are the answer is insanity, expecially when the states don't have the money to go after the "bad" appraisers. HVCC if anything is going to force out alot of the older experienced appraisers who want to do a professional job and replace them with the "$5 Whore appraiser" excuse the language for the lack of a better term. Unless the HVCC puts in place a Fee schedule for appraisers at the fees of at least 2006 only the cut throat form filler appraiser will be left in the business. WHen that happens the appraisal profession will be gone. Maybe thats what they want. No appraiser means no one to kill a deal becasue a $50,000.00 valued house isnt selling for $100,000.00. Just thoughts.

dd: (January 12, 2010 8:46am)

Joe Colorado: As an appraiser and a realtor operating in my market for over 25 years, I am appalled that the banks are asking for comps only within the last 90 days. Does not give a very complete picture of the market does it? Your vast knowledge over time is useless when guidelines surplant common sense amd knowledge. The buyers are ALWAYS right....where do you think your comps come from? Unless you have sold real estate in a market and heard the comments of hundreds (or thousands) of potential buyers, it is very hard to "quantify" what is important to buyers in that market. It is amazing what appraisers come up with regarding what is important to buyers and how much buyers will pay for things. No one should appraise who has not first sold. Appraisals would then be based in reality, not in someones head...come to think of it, that type of reality vs. disconnected perception behavior is known as mental illness...no wonder we have the problems we have today!

Lender Who Knows Better: (January 12, 2010 8:44am)

GMS FUNDING...Appraisers? I am a mortgage broker/banker...appraisers were not the problem. Underwriters were supposed to review appraisals and if there was a question they would request either a desk review or a field review. The bottom line is that a few crooked lenders and their appraisers...Somehow they always seem to find each other...caused the problem for the rest of us. I had absolute faith in my appraisers to get their job done thoroughly and honestly. Occasionally they could not up with the value needed...in which case either the buyer had to come up with a larger downpayment or the seller had to reduce their sales price or a combination of.

jrcappraiser: (January 12, 2010 8:42am)

The HVCC has taken the appraisal business to a new low for a professional. Most AMC treat us like kids, is the inspection scheduled, was it inspected and what time, when can we have it. The time it takes to call them or put this information on there dashboard takes time away from work. There corrections, clairifications, and addendum asks us to do things that are out of the ordinary. A recent expamle is to remove the work clutter which the property was full of crap and I could not see the floor or garage. I have also been told to put in a stable market when it was increasing. We have enough laws to protect the lender and if they just enfored them bad appraisers would be forced out of business. All we need to a law that protects appraisers from undue influence and punishes those that break it. It is kind of like immigration we have the laws but never enforce them.

CV Broker: (January 12, 2010 8:41am)

Brian & Frank - We know it must be exhausting to continue fighting what seems like a losing battle. If we could have your exposure and growing clout, we would take some of the burden off of your shoulders but such is the price of fame. Please be strengthened by knowing that it is the RIGHT THING TO DO! Thousands upon thousands of professionals have been run out on a rail because of a knee jerk reaction to an isolated issue. I will help you - I will join the fight. Consider this - a company as large as NBC screwed up and put Leno in a bad time slot with more hoopla and money spent than we can even imagine. Now, they admit - nope, that didn't work so we're going to try to fix it - all in a few short months. It's a business just like ours and we should not allow ours to be politicized. HVCC has to die - a swift and remorseless death.

JOE SUPPORTER: (January 12, 2010 8:39am)

JOE, That is what I have been saying. WAY TO GO. The old way works with accpuntability. The thought about the political side is GREAT.

AskGene: (January 12, 2010 8:37am)

What I want to know about HVCC is who owns these companies? Follow the money! Then you will know why we have HVCC.

????THIS: (January 12, 2010 8:36am)

regarding GFE2010. Is anyone starting their own service provider Managemnt company. If you do then the borrower can pay you to find the service provider and you can charge them a fee for it. Sounds like a good way of making a few extra dollars.

Joe Parsons: (January 12, 2010 8:33am)

@ThePhoenix: What seems to be lost in th discussion is the responsibility that the LENDERS have had all along at least to give appraisals a "sniff test," check them against the AVM and, if necessary, order a review. As a loan originator, I could exeert all kinds of pressure on "my" appraiser to raise his opinion of value, but if he consistently delivers reports that get shot down in review, he's going to stop getting business. WRT Andrew Cuomo: I believe he pulled off this little magic trick we call HVCC to gain political notoriety. He has been wildly successful in that regard. Consumer protection is a non-issue, IMO. Cuomo would back down ONLY if he saw a way to make political hay out of it. Keep in mind that he was Secretary of HUD, now A of New York, and running for governor. Think he might like to find himself on the national stage? To borrow from another shamelessly political opportunist, "You Betcha."

NITHERCAREORGIVEADAM: (January 12, 2010 8:33am)

Joecolorado, Appraisers give an opinion, but act as VALUE GODS. Ask your self if you have ever been off on value. If you answer NO. Then you are one of them. IF you answered YES, WHY would you do that? There seems to be no actual standards that are followed in apprasing. If you can not go over the Range on a property how can you ever have appreciation.

Ancient Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 8:32am)

Think I have the answer ! All appraisers just chip in and pay a bribe directly to Cuomo. That way he gets to eliminate the middle man (AMC's)and doesn't have to wait for his money ! He's nothing but a whore anyhow so direct payment is the way to go ! Same game as the AMC's without the paperwork !

LOVETHEBIZ: (January 12, 2010 8:27am)

Phoenix, Instead of that how about just accountability, ANyone can order the appraisal and then do a review by an independent appreaiser. If the review and the appraisal are off by a ?% then it can be rebuted. But who ever was really off either high or low goes up in front of a commitee. If they are found to be wrong then first time fine second time pull their lic. This would solve the brokers problem with HVCC and it solves the GOV.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 8:24am)

dd-buyers are not stupid,we realize that,but they are not informed about the quantifiable differences between homes based on our knowledge of the market over a longer period of time than 6 months.Appraisals are not for the borrower,they are for the investor and its our job to inform the investor whether the money to be invested is considered "safe'based on our education, expertise,and our knowledge of the current market.Realtors have a vested interest in the sale,appraisers dont.we are meant to be independent.we are not.we have allowed fear of future rejection in getting appraisal requests to jaundice our working model.We need to stop bending the rules to suit the situation,learn to say NO and rely on our ethical and moral compass to tell us when it is not right.Dont get bullied, get a backbone,and defend your value.If you have done nothing wrong there should be no fear.

Ancient Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 8:21am)

Socal Appraisal Gal: As a Realtor and Appraiser I have been running into the same problem; and it appears to be getting more obvious. The AMC's and their handlers (Banks/Lenders) no longer want a current estimated market value. Their guidelines themselves are causing Real Estate values to decrease even when the market makes an attempt at recovery. Pending contracts with back up offers at one price are often renogotiated at a lower price because an appraisal cannot be provided to support the value. Even when there are legitimate Comparables available they are not used.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 8:21am)

dd you are serious, but I still think you are nuts.

ThePhoenix: (January 12, 2010 8:19am)

Unfortunately for the industry, this battle is already lost. The keys to chicken coop was entrusted to mortgage brokers to order the appraisals and it has been proven, albeit in small numbers, that mortgage brokers stole eggs from the chicken coop. So, brokers are not going to be able to order appraisals. Now with that being said, the best defense is a good offense... the right approach is making it mandatory for appraisals to be order through a central repository and lenders, borrowers, brokers, agents, no one should be able to order an appraisal directly from an appraiser. Rules on peer review in the central repository can address the problems. That eliminates the unfairness for everyone. However, brokers wont want that because they really want what they had. That train has already left the station and will not return.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 8:15am)

Toby-HVCC is not going away.If you have been working as an appraiser under USPAP then HVCC is not really a problem.The problem is issues which arose because of HVCC.If we as appraisers had just not been concerned about whether the broker blackballed us for an appraisal that did not work for them,but we gave them an honest opinion of value and kept to it,we wouldnt have this mess.I dont change my appraisals for any reason,never have,never will.If you dont like my opinion, get one of your own,I wont be offended,its anothers' opinion,I appreciate that.You employ me to give my opinion of value and whether the investors money is "safe",dont castigate me for telling you it isn't safe,I am doing you a favor by keeping you out of jail and giving you a defensible figure to hang your hat on which permits you and me to sleep easy at night,knowing I did my job for you,the investor(not the broker).The reward for that diligence is AMC.Thanks for that gift.

dd: (January 12, 2010 8:11am)

I submitt that the average buyer with a half way decent and ethical realtor has already appraised the property by plunking down his or her hard earned money in agreement of the value after looking at from 20 to 50 homes in his price range typically over a 3 to 6 month time frame. Get out of the way of the market, which is where value typically is derived, and believe that buyers are not stupid or uninformed. With computer technology, public records and buyer access to MLS information, the buyers know as much as the appraisers, if not more.

HVCC can Kiss it!!!: (January 12, 2010 8:08am)

Hey appraisers...I hate to say it but you are not coming together as a group as strongly as you need to. The banks are making you out as a bunch of lying theives and laughing their @sses off about it behind closed doors while they rake it on from the AMC that they own. Go picket in front of HUD and Town Hall and the banks to get some attention all over the country. Go on strike? That would get some SERIOUS attention...although I hope you don't because it will hurt the borrowers. The point is that if it aint on t.v. getting attention the banks win by pushing you around. Can't afford to boycott the AMC's? Can you afford not to? It's y'alls calls ;-)Good luck.

Toby: (January 12, 2010 8:03am)

"Should the HVCC fight come to an end?" Keep in mind that this thing is scheduled to die in ten months anyway. And after that it is unlikely that lenders will go back to business as usual.

GMS Funding: (January 12, 2010 8:03am)

Joe Colorado you are correct. If the appraisers were held liable for their actions, and the consequences were high. HVCC would not be required

Bad Appraisal - No One Fixing It: (January 12, 2010 8:02am)

Working on a file where there are square footage errors, room count errors, and missing a valid comp next door. RELS won't fix it because they think they did... We've spent hours reading, comparing, researching, and finally writing rebuttals. We've provided proof twice, but they still haven't fixed it. Sad thing is that we suspect RELS isn't passing all of the info to the appraiser. We're at our wits end. Just found USPAP violations now. Not sure where to go with this. I would expect that pointing out the USPAP violations would require a new appraisal, but how long RELS they drag their feet on that one? Borrower paid for a bad product and RELS is refusing to deliver a good one. Lock needs to be extended, costing borrower even more money. If we could just call the appraiser and ask them what the heck they're doing, it would have been over on the 1st or 2nd day we pointed out the error. We're going on 2 weeks! Bottom line: HVCC has cost the borrower a lot of money. Fix it.

Toby: (January 12, 2010 7:59am)

"Let the borrower order the appraisal!" Um, you might want to run that by the FED/OTS and see if they will change their rules. The GSE's are pretty much in conformance with basic banking regs right now.

GMS Funding: (January 12, 2010 7:56am)

HVCC can kiss it!! You are correct. Simple economics. Without a demand for the product it (the product) would not have been there. If the insurance companies would have rated the MBS correctly, no one would have paid the premium they did. And companies like New Century and others would not have had a Stated income on a wage earner at 100% LTV with a 580 credit score...... Not Toxic MBS' the mortgage crisis would have been a minor hiccup for the economy, instead of a full blown heart attack...

higginson: (January 12, 2010 7:54am)

Just had a desk review come in $76,000 lower than appraised value. The lender puts me in charge of coordinating the rebuttal from the appraiser but because I'm not allowed to speak to desk reviewer OR the appraiser directly, all I can do is send the desk reviewers concerns along to the contact at the AMC and hope he gets them to the appraiser in time to meet the rate lock. Ooops, the QC dept. didn't forward all of the desk reviewer's concerns to the appraiser so I got a half-baked rebuttal back. I called out the AMC on this and they realized their error and will "try to get this handled as soon as possible". There are so many things wrong with this process that it'd be laughable if it weren't my livelihood at stake. Too many people are now involved and there is no accountability. There is no one to complain to about this that feels like it's their responsibility. In a logical world, the desk reviewer would contact the appraiser and get it worked out in 15 minutes, not 10 days.

joecolorado: (January 12, 2010 7:53am)

If appraisers had the nads to say no....HVCC would not have occurred.The advent of HVCC did nothing for our industry but we still are going round in circles trying to offset the blame. WE ARE the problem.If an AMC has low fees dont take the commission, its easy, just say NO.There will be other work out there, pick and chose your jobs,when appraisers work for their worth and provide a product worth that fee,the matter is resoved.Have some pride and tell these amc sharks to take a hike.I have when they order a cheap appraisal.I dont even turn it down I ignore it.They will eventually order the appraisal on my fee and get a good product for that fee.dont get bullied by these guys.Adapt to their system and use it against them to your advantage,its easy just say no.

Making-It-In-The-New-World-Order: (January 12, 2010 7:48am)

We've been in business for nearly two decades and have always had the borrower call the appraiser. We always ask these questions: Is there a title company you prefer to use? If they say yes we let them pick while we manage the process. We ask: Is there an appraiser you wish to use? If they say yes we proctor them through the process. We've been doing this for a very long time and have never had a problem. All this hoopla over HVCC, the new GFE and other mind numbing activities hasn't affected us one iota. We sit back, watch and laugh while all the other monkey's run around their cages flinging poo and peanuts at each other. We've placed nearly 200 million in loans already this month and there are only 6 of us. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Pete: (January 12, 2010 7:48am)

HVCC is here until such a time that either results, as measured over time, suggest to those who make the rules that it either is no longer servicing its purpose whether that be based in reality or political bias or someone designs a better process and alternative and is convincing enough to sell it. Simply complaining about how it costs consumers more, negatively impacts the lending process/service levels, how much less appraisers make etc will does not help. Considering the events of the past couple of years those types of justifications probably do more harm. Alternative solutions that suggest how to better protect Investors, GSE's, Servicing Lenders and consumers will when this debate.

TabascoJack: (January 12, 2010 7:47am)

Brian and Frank. Can you post Cuomo's email and office addresses for you followers? Then promote us to pound at him. He will not be able to ignore the unattended consequences he has created. You may have done this previously but I have not seen it.

The mortgage professional. : (January 12, 2010 7:45am)

I love this damn show, great job, great idea. borrowers ordering the appraisal is genius

VA appraiser: (January 12, 2010 7:44am)

I recently reviewed an appraisal where the "appraiser" came into our area from a small town 2 hours away. They had absolutely no knowledge of the market as clear by the comparable selection. And this fool did it for a company that paid him $175 but the mortgage company charged $475. AMCs have one qualification...work cheap. That's it in the nutshell.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 7:43am)

dd are you serious? NYAPP I just posted the article on this forum

HVCC can kiss it!!: (January 12, 2010 7:42am)

Good point pete. The problem is that the GFE, YSP, brokers, and appraisers did not cause the housing crash. Banks selling crappy products and ratings agencies that allowed this paper to be re-sold caused this mess. The extreme over reaction by HUD and Cuomo is subterfuge just to hide the real facts about who's fault this is. "Skin in the game" you say? Ok fair enough...but if the banks have the skin in the game why didn't they do a better job of reviewing all of these reports on the loans that defaulted instead of coming back afterwards and trying to blame the housing boom on appraisers? Answer...they wanted to sell the paper and had a buyer for it based on crooked ratings. It was not because evil brokers and appraisers tricked the unfortunate, and unsuspecting innocent victim bankers. Just thought I'd throw that out there...

NYAPP: (January 12, 2010 7:39am)

Check out article on APPRAISALBUZZ.COM "A Declaration of War on BPO's" goes on to say " The Fed....proposed rule contains several changes in appraisal policy, including an elimination of an appraisal requirement and an allowance for the use of appraisal alternatives...AVM's and BPO's. We are going to get screwed until "they" decide appraisers, for whatever reason they want to make up, are not needed and an appraiser and appraisal becomes a thing of the past.

Appraising 25+ years: (January 12, 2010 7:38am)

HEY HUD...Here's a novel idea. Go back to the panel system. Lender select didn't work. AMCs screw the experienced appraiser. HUD says pay appraiser the market fee so AMCs say that appraisers set the market fee ($150.) What does this AMC charge - $600 for an FHA. HEY APPRAISERS. Want to make professional fees. Start acting like a professional. Say NO to street whore fees & the PIMP AMCS will have to pay REAL market fees.

fredup: (January 12, 2010 7:38am)

Good point. I have appraised the same area of Broward County Fl. for 16 years. I know the area better than most people. But they think it's better for the borrowers to get a low priced appraiser from far away to do the work. Come on man!

LV Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 7:37am)

Hey! ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY! Us appraisers are being saddled with the cost of the AMC requirement of HVCC. And you're right, that AMC deal may not go away. But why aren't the end users of the appraisal product paying for this HVCC requirement. Why do the appraisers have to pay for this? Doesn't make sense. Most appraisers are having a problem with the PAY! It's all about the Money! We're not in this deal to "give back to society"! Get the AMCs out of our pockets, and we'll be able to settle the rest of the issues.

v-man: (January 12, 2010 7:37am)

Anyone in Northern CA Redding to Chico interested WR Lending is looking for a wholesale account executive in that area. I was getting at least 2 appraisals a week from WR LENDING and they lost there executive in that area. Call Todd at WR Lending 916-774-1600 Tell them Vince told you about the opening.

Socal Appraisal Gal: (January 12, 2010 7:35am)

Giving it to the borrower means I would have to hire someone to answer the phone as they all price shop me...No thanks ...As for today I am going out to try to save a deal in which the appraiser brought the appraisal in $50,000 below purchase price...Gee there are 11 offers, 4 at this price and the rest within 3% of this price...the borrower is going to lose out to the next one in line all becuase a bad and I mean bad appraisal from an AMC..this is the 3 one this year I have been called on to try to help out and write a rebuttal...HVCC does not seem to be working...My other issue is my review clients tell me to cut value but when I see that there is a purchase that is brought in below purchase price and I realize it is well supported at purchase price I am not allowed to raise value...Anyone else have a problem with that? I sure do...I have had 4 this year and I can't believe I can't provided the data that supports the purchase price that is supported by market.

Disappointed: (January 12, 2010 7:34am)

Is it just me or does it seem like ever since Frank and Brian came back from Cuomo's office they've had their tails between their legs? Come on guys, I can't believe you'd even SUGGEST giving up on HVCC. MAN UP GUYS! And can someone please tell me why this still is not in the media?

Appraiser Jim: (January 12, 2010 7:32am)

To Syracuse appraiser guy...your comments are spot-on. It should be easy to spot a fraudulent appraisal, and there are consequences for those who do bad work. It is a state licensed profession and the state does its job when it comes to revoking or suspending a licensed professional. There is no reason to add another layer of oversight to appraisers. We are not the ones making or losing billions gambling on mortgage backed "securities" and no one is bailing us out after deciding we shouldn't be talking to our clients, because we might be swayed into forfeiting our licenses for a $300 fee. It sounds like a bad joke, but the joke is on us. We need to fight HVCC to the bitter end. Our careers depend on it.

HVCC can kiss it!!: (January 12, 2010 7:32am)

Having the borrower order it won't work because they will just call their crooked cousin down the block to do the report. We all know how that will go. They need to just make the MLS accessable to banks and brokers alike so as a team they can double check to make sure the report holds water. If not then the appraiser needs to fix it. I like appraisers and have no intention of throwing them under the bus...but right now they are being told how to do the reports by the banks that order from or own the AMC's. This is rediculous...that's what did WAMU in. After getting back my 5th horrible report in a row, (15+ in the last few months) where all of the comps were foreclosures or bank selloff's. Then watching the appraiser and the AMC laugh all the way to the bank and ignore our disputes, I have to voice up and say this system is setting us up for another monster crash. The banks will eventually use HVCC, combined with the new GFE, to manipulate the market values and push brokers out as well

v-man: (January 12, 2010 7:31am)

I talked to an old client and she told me that the AMC that hired the appraiser to do her appraisals came over a 100 miles to do her appraisals . Did not know the area, market, ect, ect. Cost her 5 loans in 2 weeks. Not 1 was even close to being a proper appraisal.

Pete: (January 12, 2010 7:30am)

In addition to regulators, Lenders are the ones with "Skin In The Game" (See my first post). How many brokers,realtors,appraisers have assumed losses on a property that went into foreclosure during this crisis and was sold for exponentially less than the original appraised value of the home? Again, I mention this from the new venacular "Skin In The Game". It's here the majority of battles will be waged going forward until such time profits are readily flowing in all aspects of businesses associated with home ownership. Simply complaining about how unfair this is to us in our individual capacity will not alter the debate.

CA-HiDeZertAppraiserGal: (January 12, 2010 7:28am)

ALL AMC's have their "profit margin" they need to make off the appraisers back. If the order assigner from Joe AMC doesnt meet its quota they are written up and ultimately let go. I have first hand knowledge of this and think this is borderline CRIMINAL.....example...client ABC LENDER gives the AMC anywhere from $350 to $450 per appraisal order. That order assigner from JOE AMC calls around and checks the appraisers "best fee and turn around time" puhleeze...best fee? c'mon you know they are only looking for the lowest fee to make their AMC a profit...Disgusting, dis-honest and needs to stop.

TabascoJack: (January 12, 2010 7:28am)

HVCC is a Joke. I recently talked with an appraiser who was getting 3 appraisals a week from one company. The management company called him up and said they would like him to relook over the appraisal that they were short to make the deal. He refused and said "I thought you were aloud to question the appraisal?" The management company blackballed him and he has not received another order in over 30 days. There is much more cases of this than just the one I have heard about.

Deedie: (January 12, 2010 7:28am)

This is from Appraisal Buzz dated 01/11/10 A Declaration of War on BPOs The appraisal industry and residential appraisers in particular are under siege! Month after month you read stories of alternative valuations such as BPOs replacing appraisals. Here is the latest one published in the Appraisal Institute’s Appraiser News Online: “The Federal Reserve has proposed a new rule addressing … Home Equity Lines of Credit. Among other things, the proposed rule contains several changes in appraisal policy, including an elimination of an appraisal requirement and an allowance for the use of appraisal alternatives – such as automated valuation models and broker price opinions” In November, NAR announced an initiative to develop the Realtors Property Resource (RPR), a parcel centric database of more than 147 million property parcels. Out of this effort comes the Realtor Valuation Model (RVM) which NAR hopes will become the “Gold Standard” for establishing a property’s fair market value. HVCC was introduced last year. The New York attorney general decided that appraisers needed to be protected because they couldn’t say “no” when asked to inflate values. So for half their fee, appraisers are now protected from mortgage brokers by AMCs. Why is this happening? Why are lenders pressuring the Fed to allow BPOs for HELOCs? Why does NAR think it can create the “gold standard” for property valuation? Why was HVCC implemented? Why were two conferences held last year on fixing the industry? Why are solution white papers written on “Reengineering the Appraisal Process”? It’s simple. Appraisers are not delivering the valuation services that the financial industry is requesting. The 1004 may be today’s gold standard in valuation, but only to Fannie and Freddie. The rest of the financial industry wants something else. And they don’t care who provides it. At Bradford Technologies, as a member of the appraisal industry for 24 years, we take this threat to the industry very seriously. Today, we are issuing a Declaration of War against BPOs. This is a war that will not be won overnight, but it is a war that can be and must be won. Appraisers are the valuation experts. No one else is! Appraisers can and should be the only “gold standard” in property valuations. Please note the distinction: The appraiser should be the “gold standard”. Not the 1004; not the Realtor’s RVM and definitely not a BPO. We have developed a battle plan for creating an elite fighting force to wage this war. We understand that the stakes are high, and to win, you need allies. We have enlisted and received the help of some of the largest appraisal firms in the nation in this fight. Every fighting force needs weapons to wage war; they need training to fight effectively and the infrastructure and leadership to fight as a cohesive unit. In this effort, we have developed a new class of weapon for the appraiser – Computer-Aided Appraisal software that can analyze markets and assist in producing reliable valuations in record time. We have developed training programs needed to use this new capability effectively and with precision. With our allies, we have developed the key command and control infrastructure needed to produce a cohesive, focused fighting force. In the next issue of the AppraisalBuzz, “Declaring War on BPOs Part II”, we will detail the battle plan and tell you how you can help win the War against BPOs. Jeff Bradford, CEO Bradford Technologies, Inc.

Do you care about your future?: (January 12, 2010 7:27am)

Tommy Duncan's article on "Did HVCC lead to more fraud" has some conceptual holes in it. First, NAMB, NAHB, NAR, and everybody including the consumers have "skin in the game" with the HVCC! It is suprising to hear from brokers that don't realize that fact - haven't they had deals blow up on them because of AMC appraisers? And as appraisers well know, the HVCC has nothing to do with upholding USPAP! This has been a problem with mortgage originators (not that it is their fault), they are NOT appraisers and do not really know what USPAP says or what appraisers really do. THE FIGHT TO END THE HVCC IS FAR FROM OVER - don't be a fool and think otherwise, or you might get what you wish for.

v-man: (January 12, 2010 7:26am)

Anyone out there looking for a truck driver in CA. Cant pay my bills doing appraisals. HELP

fredup: (January 12, 2010 7:25am)

I agree the HVCC has completely killed me and the industry. To say we have bad appraisers and laws and guidelines in place angainst these bad appraiser but we can't enforce these laws so we are going to treat everybody like childern and theifs is just unbelievable. I worked my butt off and lost a ton of clients doing my job right for years all for nothing.

v-man: (January 12, 2010 7:24am)

Id give ny left WELL WHATEVER to get back to 5k a month here in CA.

Pete: (January 12, 2010 7:22am)

There is another potential change being considered with FHA. Elimination of the mini-eagle and increase networth requirements for full eagles. In this discussion the new buzz word in Washington "Skin in the game". I wonder how much this is playing into the conversation with regulators relative to HVCC?

dd: (January 12, 2010 7:21am)

As a certified residential appraiser and a Realtor, I have one question. Why do we need to assume that most buyers are stupid and uninformed are out buying homes at prices that make no sense? The average buyer is more qualified to assess the value of a home than the average appraiser because he or she has been in most, if not all, of the current comps! As a realtor, I also run historical comps for the buyers and we discuss making offers at different prices. In the San Diego county market, there are often multiple offers on the lower priced properties. Unfortunately the appraisers have to rely strictly on history, not current market, to value properties and are coming up wrong, wrong, wrong! I suggest we don't need to get rid of HVCC. We need to get rid of appraisers and let the buyers do the job.

Wendy: (January 12, 2010 7:18am)

Please make the HVCC go away before we are all gone. Holding on by a thread. AMC are the worst thing to ever hit the industry. All our hard work in building relationships is gone. Whatever meeting you have planned please make it soon. thanks for your hard work.

darksider: (January 12, 2010 7:18am)

Has anyone looked into Andrew Cuomo. Does he or his family or someone in his staff benefit from HVCC. Who is on his campaign contributers list. Turn over enough rocks for the answer.

QBsack12: (January 12, 2010 7:14am)

Giving the borrower control of appraiser ordering would turn the appraisal industry into a huge advertisement machine. You would have ADs on TV like the car insurance and lawyers. The cost of doing business to compete would explode and appraisal fees would rise to $700-$1,000....Hurting who?....the borrower.

Fredup: (January 12, 2010 7:13am)

We as appraiser would not be complaining if we were still get our full fees. Why must the appraiser pay for the AMC's fee. I say lets let the borrower pay for the AMC's fee,(its for their protections). The theroy of the AMC's, which is give the appraisal to the lowest bidder is completely rediculious and not in the best interest of the borrower.

Pete: (January 12, 2010 7:13am)

Do you really think, even if the Feds sunset HVCC, the major lenders in this country will eliminate an HVCC type of ordering process? They control the majority of the servicing in this country and those in control really make the rules don't they?

Hammer: (January 12, 2010 7:11am)

The solution already exists. Add ordering conventional appraisals to the FHA connection. You already order government appraisals on this site. This would create transparency and the ability to review appraisers body of work if necessary.

Appraiser Jim: (January 12, 2010 7:11am)

HVCC must end, and soon, before all independent fee appraisers are gone. California has the highest rate of non-renewals in the country, and in every state, appraisers are leaving the profession and taking their years of appraisal experience with them. The HVCC has been a boon to only one group, the AMC, who have been the bane of fee appraisers for years because of their low fees and turn time pressure, which only provides the impetus to cut corners and do a less than thorough job. $300 has become a pittance for what we are now obligated to provide, including the market trend addendum which adds time and effort for no compensatory increase in pay. I broke in as an appraiser more than fifteen years ago, and our fees were $275 then. Three comps and you were done. Now we provide four sales, two listings, a market addendum, and have all the responsibility along with it, and all other expenses like fuel, rent, and utilities have gone up. Unfair doesn't quite say it well enough.

Ric: (January 12, 2010 7:10am)

Let's start calling this "CUOMO'S TAX ON HOME BUYERS". This is what it is. A tax payable to the large banks that own the appraisal management companies. Our average appraisal price went from $ 350 to $450. If we label this as a tax on home buyers, it is clear that it helps drive down the price of housing. It also let's us put a cost figure on it. How many appraisals are done each year? 50 million maybe. That's a $ 5 BILLION a year tax. Are we preventing $ 5 BILLION a year in appraisal fraud. Wouldn't just ordering an occassional appraisal review accomplish the same thing at far less cost? So, let's start calling this thing 'CUOMO'S $ 5 BILLION TAX ON HOMEBUYER'S'. He might not want to be associated with that lable!!!!!

syracuseappraiserguy: (January 12, 2010 7:06am)

Jeff's post at 4:43am is right on! Hey, if underwriters would have just done their job correctly, it wouldn't matter who orders the appraisal. Appraisers submitting bogus appraisals would have been snuffed out long ago. We already have all the proper oversight in place it just needs to be followed through on by the underwriters/lenders...not place more oversight on the appraiser with all this smoke and mirrors -and in the process taking money out of appraisers pockets by doing so. INVESTIGATION of underwriters/lenders is where the focus should be, and leave the appraisers alone.

Common Sense: (January 12, 2010 7:05am)

Let the borrower order the appraisal? Never going to happen. The whole point of the HVCC is seperate the appraisal process from anyone who might gain by influencing the appraiser. Why don't we just let the Realtors order them? How about the Seller in purchase transactions? None of these are going to get any serious consideration for the above stated reason. The HVCC is only a problem because the AMCs are a management nightmare. If they would do their job properly there would be virtually no impact. As is, they are doing a poor job and overcharging for it. Technologically, it should not be that hard to find an experienced appraiser in any given market and it shouldn't cost more than $25 to fax them an order. Are these not the major complaints? Pre-HVCC it was against the rules to try to influence an appraiser. Why not just do away with the failed HVCC experiment altogether and enforce the rules?

Broke in KY: (January 12, 2010 7:04am)

As far as the GFE, I can work with it. They put it out there, we have no choice. It is kind of nice to show the credit of YSP back, which a bank does not do! It is a pain the arse, but a bump in the road compared to HVCC and the all the extra fees from fannie for nearly every loan. Make no mistake these are the things that are closing broker businesses now. We do not need borrowers ordering appraisals from any list, provided by anyone. We as brokers need to get back in the appraisal ordering process because we are professionals. The lenders need a system to ferret out the fraud, which I believe most of them do. I want to be around after this year, I have to admit, I may not since and the majority of the refinances that come in cannot be done and people need jobs to buy homes. Thank you Wall Street!

CW: (January 12, 2010 7:03am)

If investor wants to use AMC it should be their prerogative. That is, to some, a good business concept. That's why Countrywide had Landsafe & LSI (thieves)has been able to be in business for decades. Why should a kneejerk reaction by an AG from NY all the sudden make it mandatory? Borrowers, if they initiate, should definately be able to order appraisals & then shop for a rate. If a broker initiates when taking an app he/she should recommend 3 appraisal firms, similar to realtors supplying a list of home inspectors on a sale. Everybody is already ethically bound, no? Every appraisal is getting reviewed already, no? Investor's should be responsible for paying for the appraisal review. They're the ones with the salable commodity at the end of the day. The appraiser shouldn't be taking 1/2 fee to cover review. I've lost alot of clients that were completely satisfied due to HVCC. I've also walked away from a ton of weazels over the past 25 years as I wanted to stay in business.

clulessdad: (January 12, 2010 6:58am)

Forget about the borrower ordering an appraisal. They have no idea what they are looking for. They will find the cheapest appraiser that will come in with their opinion of value. It is much simpler, if you have passed all the requirements of the SAFE act and are a registered NMLS LO, you should be able to order an appraisal.

jr424: (January 12, 2010 6:55am)

please do not give up on the HVCC fight ........it will destroy our industry if it goes through in its current form. thats all i have to say

Estimator54: (January 12, 2010 6:53am)

HVCC has cost all of us a great deal of money. Homeowners for sloppy/hasty work. By taking the Appraiser's money. LO production down. The HVCC has protected no one. Just added to the redtape and paper work. This is always the governments solution. Shaky loans caused the problem not the LO's nor appraiser's nor homeowners with deceit credit! Get rid of HVCC.

Broke in KY: (January 12, 2010 6:52am)

HVCC needs to go away! The results have been devastating to brokers and appraisers alike. Now we have 2 issues, the lenders are accustomed to the lame system and will be reluctant to eliminate something they've invested time and funds into and many appraisers have become dependent upon it for a source of income, albeit pitiful. If I understood you correctly, Mark Savitt is saying kill it, and he is absolutely correct. I ordered an appraisal for a government loan last month, do you think the lender did not check on that value before approving the loan? That was one loan I've closed in 3 weeks in the last 7 months. I predict if HVCC is allowed to stand we will see a further erosion of brokers in 2010, which will be detrimental to borrowers. Many appraisers have learned to live on less income and more work. I wish they had stood up to HVCC, refused to work for less and that alone may have killed it.

JustAThought: (January 12, 2010 6:45am)

Some comments, unrelated to each other. 1. The Borrower is much too interested a party to be allowed to select/influence the appraiser. The goal is to establish a process the engenders trust. 2. What I like about the lender/AMC process. I no longer have to act as the middleman when the appraiser puts something stupid into the appraisal. No more cryptic stips on the appraisal for me to deal with... lender goes to the AMC to resolve 'issues'. 3. Another idea. Why doesn't each state's Appraisal Trade Association create an HVCC compliant referral service to compete with the AMC's?

Ezradams: (January 12, 2010 6:39am)

Joe in Colorado: There is an appraisal organization fighting the HVCC and we've made some inroads. Things are in the pipeline as we speak, but nothing to report at this time....hopefully we'll have something big in the next month or so. Oh, by the way, the organization is the American Guild of Appraisers and you can join by going to appraisersguild.org. Or, drop me an email and I'll get back to you. dan@appraising.biz

joe: (January 12, 2010 6:36am)

do you know how much money these lenders make from HVCC? the answer is a lot. just by having brokers order from their website, they make thousands and thousands of dollars, i guess everyone knows..

lnangel: (January 12, 2010 6:33am)

I have experienced the same problem with the APR issue for the YSP but if in the Calyx system you break out the YSP as a credit paid by LENDER on the initial worksheet up in the 800 section then it will not effect your APR. It has never been in the APR and in fact isnt it already taken into consideration in the interest rate. We all cant even get it and Borrower is suppost to???? Oh yeah tell me how this is helping...

Nuke 'em 'til they Glow: (January 12, 2010 6:32am)

Film the Mabel Segments outside. It sounded like like Mabel was talking and not Frank

Cy: (January 12, 2010 6:29am)

appraisals HVCC compliant are not getting through UW also. What I like about buyer ordering appraisals is we may be able to use the same appraisal and move to different lenders. As it stands now the lender who orders appraisal ....unless the buyer contributes cost for another appraisal.... owns the loan. HVCC policy cut lender competition to 0.

Ezradams: (January 12, 2010 6:29am)

I mentioned the borrower ordering the appraisal months ago as an alternative. Let's just be very careful and think it through. What would some of the unintended consequences be? (Just like HVCC was not thought through.) Borrower could order from any state licensed or certified appraiser (not just from the lender's list). We as appraisers would need to change the way we market ourselves since the borrower would either find us in the Yellow Pages or from their Realtor or loan officer. Let's talk about this sensibly.....it could be part of the solution. Are we ready to market ourselves differently than we have in the past? At least we would gain back the ability to build our businesses and negotiate fees.

WV Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 6:28am)

I can't see how letting the Borrower order the appraisal will work! As mentioned , there will always be the accusation that there was coersion. How will this help? The typical borrower is not qualified to choose an appraiser. Heck, even many of the loan officers are not qualified either. Even if the LO gives the borrwoer a list of approved apraisers, it is "thier" list of "thier" appraisers. I recieved lists before for Home inspectors. Its a joke. You know as well as I do, that for most of the LO's out there, they will remove any appraiser that doesn't hit their numbers, regardless of the quality of work they provided. I am a firm believer that there is good in the HVCC. In its current form, the HVCC sucks, but it should not be abandoned. It should be re-evaluated and changed to get rid of the unintended consequences.

Bill: (January 12, 2010 6:20am)

Copy of e sent to CALYX… anyone having this issue? I have been getting conflicting information on the disclosure of YSP between POINT and my LENDERS on the APR. I have had 4 lenders all tell me that they are disclosing the YSP as part of APR because the YSP is going to the borrower and it affects their cost of financing. I happen to agree. When I contacted your help desk prior they stated “ it is not a TIL item… never has been”. I agree with that it never has been because the YSP was always outside of the transaction! Is that not what the change is all about… Bringing YSP into the transaction? Here’s the problem that I see.When I add my fee in origination on the new worksheet it raises the borrowers cost. (Calyx answer)”show a lender credit in the section where a deposit would be”. OK that fixes the Details of Transaction page but does not address the APR issue.The easy fix seems to be that on the “worksheet”, line 817 should populate the YSP as a negative number . It is a credit after all. This should calculate in the borrowers cost to correct the details of transaction. By checking the existing PCF box the APR will be correct.The disclosure for the 2010 GFE can still show as a positive number(money to borrower).The 2010 GFE does show the credit when it prints as a negative number already.This would make the entry of information much easier and less chance of errors with scenario changes if the credit line isn’t changed to match the YSP.IF YSP IS NOT PART OF APR COULD YOU PLEASE SEND ME THE DOCUMENTATION THAT I CAN PROVIDE TO MY LENDERS COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENTS TO CORRECT THE LENDERS SIDE. I have 1 lender that is accepting my GFE and TIL upfront with no re-disclosure like most lenders. These issues are going to show up with compliance issues prior to closing and cause delays that I would prefer to avoid.

JK: (January 12, 2010 6:18am)

So let's just let the borrowers order the appraisals???? Come on Brian and Frank you are scaring me! I say leave it to the broker or Broker assigned processor. Let the broker be responsible for the rules that were already in place before the HVCC even existed. It is all about accountability and the free maket not more rediculous codes and regulations!!!! It is amazing how the focus on the broker and appraiser is such a big deal when most people with half a brain know this was not the root of the problem in the first place.....JK

Joe in Colorado: (January 12, 2010 6:16am)

HVCC should also be fought by the Appraisal community. The absences of all the appraisal organizations only makes your efforts look less legitimate. As an 18 year appraisal, I applaud your efforts, but get those floks involved.

REORealtor1: (January 12, 2010 6:15am)

Appraiser in CA, stop whining, be glad you have an income when so many don't. we're ALL working Saturdays, Sundays and putting in 14-16 hour days for less money. My boyfriend hasn't seen anything of me other than my back for two years as I'm too busy doing reports! (It's easier if you're happy about it, lol. It was the 2 yrs of no income that keeps me gratefu) As for HVCC we all must keep fighting this. The real problem was the scams. There is nothing to stop co-ercion among thieves; it's as simple as that. When an industry allows uneducated, unlicensed (or a weekend course with an EZ to follow test) to obtain a license it's an open door for the flim-flammers. Perhaps if any mortgage company HAD to show on their books that they rotate their appraisals among no less than 5-10 companies on a rotation basis that could get rid of HVCC. And, the buyer chooses the appraiser? Straw buyers choosing appraisals. I'm not particularly devious and it took me 2.5 seconds to come up with that one!

Headache from HVCC!: (January 12, 2010 6:07am)

Sue had a good point. Not only is the broker now liable, unless the lenders will remover this clause which let's face it won't happen, but now we must ask ourselves "will this appraisal get through underwriting". The appraisals I order on my own go through no problem, but when the borrower chooses who knows what kind of report we will get and whether it will make it through review without 20 additional conditions.

TD Hawk: (January 12, 2010 5:59am)

Buyers/borrowers order home inspections, which they "own" and are portable. I don't see a problem with buyers/borrowers ordering the appraisal, just like survey or title policy. One less worry and reduced potential for liabilty for the originator.

CT Broker: (January 12, 2010 5:57am)

Is it me? Hate to keep bringing up the YSP, Block 1 vs Block 2 thing... but Just when I felt like I had a firm grip on the topic (based on Blogs like TBWS) Provident Funding (my main Lender) and one of the largest volume wholesalers in the country say's otherwise. see this link... https://news.pfloans.provident.com/showNewsItem.aspx?page=template_main&id=4242 I don't think anyone has a clue!

Sue: (January 12, 2010 5:51am)

I agree...not a fan of the borrower ordering the appraisal. Most, if not all, of the broker agreements we sign as a company to set up with a lender make use responsible for everything, including appraisals....I do not want my company's reputation and financial stake in the hands of the borrower...bad idea. Why not have the broker order the appraisals and they sign the form??

tired of being beaten down by Congress: (January 12, 2010 5:50am)

HVCC has ended years of relationships that I have built with appraisers who would in turn ensure that we had great customer service from them and to our clients through great turn times and expectations. I can honestly say, I never infleuenced them to give me the "value" that I needed. Would there be communication about value? Sure, but if they told me that it just couldn't be done, I respected that. I knew that it had to get by the underwriter anyway, so why force the issue? The fact is now, the appraisal fees have gone up and customer service has gone down. The appraisers and the borrowers are the victims of all of this and Congress and Cuomo need to realize this. The AMC's have had serious violations and complaints filed against them as well, HVCC has done nothing but provide jobs for the AMC companies (Well, I guess that's a good thing in this economy), build income for the large lenders (most of them have interest in their AMC's) and cost the borrowers more money. Fight the fight!

OldLO : (January 12, 2010 5:43am)

Dom, welcome to he world of the loan oficer. Say, are you saying the banks never do this to their HVCC appraisers? The borrower pays for the service, why "chicken out" and hide behind a loan officer, set your ipod and record the consumer complaints about their appraisals, say isn't this about the borrower anyway?

Midwest Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 5:42am)

This solution could have some problems unless buyers/borrowers understood that they could not "Pre Determined Value Estimates" and value dispute has to come with additional data for support.

Gnotboxchecker: (January 12, 2010 5:39am)

Borrowers ordering the appraisal. Wow, back to the good old days! Just imagine the broker with strings attached to the borrowers fingers! Remember there are lots of ways to skin the cat.

Jersey Girl: (January 12, 2010 5:39am)

Hell no we cannot quit fighting the HVCC! Even if we get back to our normal fees, this code has taken away our business and relationships with clients that we've worked so hard for. We CAN'T give up! :)

Midwest Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 5:37am)

In Illinois real estate agents generally give the home buyers a list of Attorneys and Home Inspectors that they can call and interview themselves. This allows the buyer to make the final call on who will do the job and takes the liability completely off the shoulders of the agent. The same thing could be done with appraisals.

P.O. lender: (January 12, 2010 5:34am)

What is the purpose of forcing an "HVCC" appointed appraisal when the banks are ordering reviews on most of the work that their "HVCC" companies are doing!!....Does this mean that they don't trust "their" appraisers either???? What a joke.......

BirminghamRealtor: (January 12, 2010 5:34am)

I, for one, could use your help in ending the 90 day rule for flipping homes. The investor must wait 90 days to "sell" a flip home. FHA will not finance a flip home until then. This is stupid when we are supposidly trying to "stimulate" the economy. If the rule ended my investors(4 of them)could/would be able to flip more homes. This would enable them to spend more money at Lowe's. I would have more to spend (I love shopping). The purchasers would buy accessories for their new home. The mortgage guy would make/spend more, etc. But our "stupid" gov't made a rule to slow this down. They don't want the investor to "compete" with owner occupants when offering on the foreclosures! The owner occupants cannot pay cash for these homes & they are so horrible that financing cannot be had on them. The investors are repairing & remodeling the home & the end user is the Owner Occupant. Who is thrilled to get the deals we are offering. We sell below retail.HELP stop this madness.

Anonymous: (January 12, 2010 5:32am)

"The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? I thouhgt it was Japan?" Someone has never seen Animal House... Great movie

DOM: (January 12, 2010 5:28am)

Personally, I'd hate to have borrowers choosing appraisers. You can have the parties sign anything you want, but in the end there'll be "influence" before and after the inspection/report process. I can hear the phone calls coming in already with borrowers looking for value before the order is actually assigned, shopping the appraiser and finally "disgruntled borrowers asking for complete explanation of every line detail or the report" if and when a value comes in short. "BAD IDEA". Not mention the slew of "you work for me" calls we appraisers will be getting from borrowers whenever an order is taken.

Blove: (January 12, 2010 5:26am)

The Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? I thouhgt it was Japan?

Anonymous: (January 12, 2010 5:22am)

Quit? Did we quit when the Germans bombed pearl Harbor?? Hell no!

NCLO: (January 12, 2010 4:53am)

FIGHT HVCC TO THE END! We are most fortunate with my company that an appraisal desk was established when HVCC was mandated rather than get stuck with an AMC. While our system is the lessor of 2 evils, make no mistake that this has affected each and every client. A year ago I only used two specific appraisers. The two most capable, technically accurate, and outstandingly moral professionals. I used to pay $350 for every report. Over the last 8 months I have watched as appraisal rotation assignment has brought me many different appraisers (on our rotation panel), the one constant?... I know get billed $425 to $450 for every report. Keep in mind that our company does not keep a dime of any appraisal fee, yet I have watched my consumer client cost increase by 30%. Let's face it... with more Fed regs, lenders costs increase to produce the same loan. In the end with all this Federal protection... ultimately it is the consumer who will foot the bill. Than goodness Uncle Sam is here to help!

FLA Appraiser: (January 12, 2010 4:45am)

TO Appraiser in CA: Your numbers look like ours. Each month we learn to live on less. However it was very gratifying when we met with our accountant and found out how much less income we will in turn be providing Uncle Sam on April 15 of this year, as a result of his total screwing of our business through implementation of the HVCC. I guess another unintended consequence. But they can just print more, right?

SBWitmer: (January 12, 2010 4:44am)

I like the idea of the borrower ordering the appraisal, however AC would probably say the LO's would steer the borrower to an appraiser of our choice. What if the lenders came up with a list of acceptable appraisers in each county and the borrowers were given this list. Some of the lenders I work with already give me a choice of which appraiser to order from (HudsonCity). We could extend this idea and finally kill HVCC.

Jeff: (January 12, 2010 4:43am)

Mr. Duncan's points are well taken. To answer his question, the appraisers and the end user (the general public) are the entities being victimized by the current HVCC model. Why should the appraiser whom is doing 90% of the work get in the best case scenario a split on the total fee with the HVCC? In most cases the HVCC is little more than a pass through entity for the actual appraisal with no value add. I have seen HVCC fees (when the HVCC made a mistake and tipped their hand)of $400 to $600 that in turn the appraiser gets $150- $200 fee for. In the worst case scenario above the HVCC takes half the fee. Mr. Duncan is on to something. The HVCC if implemented properly can be a good thing. Regulate the HVCC such that the HVCC gets a flat percentage of the fee commensurate with the value the HVCC adds to the process. If they just pass through the appraisal maybe the stating percentage should be 10-15%. If they have a staff of licensed/certified reviewers and offer support to the appraisers, the percentage held back by the HVCC can be slightly higher. It is absolutely appalling that an HVCC is getting half the fee just because they have an 'in' at the lending institution. The HVCC is a solid concept that needs more thought to become effective. The problem with the current HVCC model is that the appraiser is having his/her fees stolen away by greedy companies. Isn't greed what got us here in the first place?

Mainer: (January 12, 2010 4:41am)

All HVCC has done is keep appraiser from marketing there business via quality work and performance. LO's still find a way to communicate value when they want, HVCC is a joke and has only hurt the consumer, appraiser and the market in general. Appraiser's have added to this by caving in like a bunch of baby's by accepting the fees of AMC's, shameful!!!!

Concerned and Tired: (January 12, 2010 4:41am)

HVCC is bad, BUT AVM's are a bigger problem. Even when an appraisal is done correctly it may fail the AVM score and then a review appraisal is done, and for some reason the review appraiser feels this is their time to "blast" the first appraisal or appraiser. Are they trying to get more business, are they feeling rightous, why would someone in the same industry completely rip another? why? why? why? Another important question is "why is more weight put on the review appraisers work", they aren't using as many comps, don't always know the area and is only a review? The appriasal industry is having a civil war within itself and until they can realize the truth that - APPRAISALS ARE AN OPINION OF VALUE - and your opinion may vary a little from someone elses, you shouldn't throw another appraisers work under the bus unless there is obvious fraud. This is an problem starting to boil within the appraisers themselves. Where does that leave us?

BC: (January 12, 2010 4:31am)

My company closed over 30,000 transactions in the past 16 years. I don't know of one single case of appraiser collusion, what are they talking about? I also don't know of the government pursuing collusion cases where there is obvious collusion, before the crime occured. It is always after the crime has occured. The government doesn't want to do anything other than legislate. They refuse to enforce by being proactive and doing some undercover work before collusion occurs.

SouthLoan: (January 12, 2010 4:28am)

NAMB has been fighting HVCC? That’s news to me. I was a member of NAMB for almost 20 years. Through the years I watched, as NAR became a formidable association with political power. NAMB, on the other hand, became an association of mortgage broker affiliates, mostly title/escrow companies and wholesalers. When attending a state meeting, less than 10% of the attendees were brokers. When HVCC was being proposed, I received several Call For Action alerts from NAR. Nothing from NAMB or the state affiliate. When I called the state, they said that NAMB was fighting for me and send some PAC money. NAMB told me that there would be press releases soon and that action was being taken, send PAC money. Finally, NAMB, after being asleep at the wheel and seeing that this horrendous rule had been implemented, in desperation filed an ineffectual lawsuit. Several days later, they coined a new term for giving up-Strategic Withdrawal. When I saw that, I made a Strategic Withdrawal from NAMB membership.

Appraiser in DC-MD: (January 12, 2010 4:21am)

HVCC does not dictate fees. Appraisers do. We are are own worst enemy! It's all about supply and demand. There are ways around all this HVCC nonsense. Lender tell their client (AMC) which appraisers to use or not. They just talk in code. Appraisers simply need to work ONLY with Lenders that have their own 'internal processing' departments. Or submit their full fees to AMCs. Let the general public raise hell.

Noel: (January 12, 2010 3:38am)

Appraisers were left on the short end because they, like brokers, had no clout (or representation) in the "lobbying" process . . . we still don't. Neither do states represent their citizens anymore. All other 49 state's attorneys general should sue Fannie, Freddie, the Fed and Cuomo for trade violations amongst a multiplicity of multitudinous myriad of malicious and malignant malfeasances.

Appraiser in CA: (January 12, 2010 2:48am)

COME TO THINK OF IT. HVCC ISN'T THE REAL PROBLEM. THE REAL PROBLEM IS MONEY. If I could go back to charging $375 for conventional and $450 for FHA's I would be making well over $10K per month. I would be happy, I could take little vacations, and pay off some credit cards. It's hard to work 14-16 hours a day (Sat. and Sunday's too) for $5-6K per month. Why did the appraisers get the extremely short end of this stick?? Nobody else got a haircut as severe as we did.

Appraiser in CA: (January 12, 2010 2:44am)

NO, FIGHT HVCC LIKE ALI FOUGHT EVERYBODY ELSE.

Alan C: (January 12, 2010 2:26am)

Fight this to the end.....HVCC has done more to hurt the housing market in the last 12 months than anything else...waiting now two weeks on appraisal for refi....if I or the borrow had ordered the appraisal where a relatonship and accountability was involved...we would have had it back 2-3 days later....