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Golden Eagles: (February 22, 2010 1:13pm)

More Bad news: From Catherine Fitts blog, has the treasury Geeks floating the idea on confiscating IRA and 401K retirement money and and giving the recepient an annuitized payment in return; which is why Obama wants the required health care plan insurance money to be forced on all citizens so they have another pool of money Like social security Ponzi scheme to collect to pay for all their bailout friends and relatives, cronies. yes, it is all a socialists nightmare and YOU ARE NOT DREAMING. BLOG LINK IS http://solari.com/blog/?p=5690

brokerbroke: (February 22, 2010 11:03am)

Does anyone know why the small businesses got left behind? No bailouts....no money....no help. I don't need a tax break for hiring new people. I have owned a mortgage company for 17 years and this is the worst I have experienced. Owning a mortgage company is like owning a boat without a motor. You gotta love the new GFE's. The banks don't even understand them!

nohype: (February 22, 2010 2:16am)

Very entertaining show guys, but it seems that there might be a little 'hype' and 'sensationalism' issue... Several viewers have already commented on your GA SB57 (a bill that passed last year) coverage, and I too have researched this and have found nothing that indicates that YSP is banned in GA. Something as big as this, I would assume you guys could provide a little more evidence as to it's merits, or at least a source. All public sources mention nothing about this. Can you guys clear this up, or is this just purely for entertainment only?

Grumpy Old Apraiser: (February 20, 2010 5:39pm)

Socalloangal: I can assure you the appraiser is not interested in completing 442 reinspects . 442's are not a profitable merely a service. Perhaps she was concerned that the cover was off, and presented signs of a problem too many appraiser gnore problems to avoid lender pressure,and comments such as yours. I'am happy to hear someone is looking out for the buyer,and homeowner.More appraisers need to report everything they see

Grumpy Old Apraiser: (February 20, 2010 5:39pm)

Socalloangal: I can assure you the appraiser is not interested in completing 442 reinspects . 442's are not a profitable merely a service. Perhaps she was concerned that the cover was off, and presented signs of a problem too many appraiser gnore problems to avoid lender pressure,and comments such as yours. I'am happy to hear someone is looking out for the buyer,and homeowner.More appraisers need to report everything they see

Frogger: (February 19, 2010 12:30pm)

Mortgage Angel thanks for the response. The borrower will be supplying docs. I'll try to keep you posted on the outcome.

SoCalLoanGal: (February 19, 2010 12:02pm)

Jersey Girl, I'm in California and just had to have a 442 done by the appraiser because she called the plumbing cleanout (metal cover) a drywall repair and the lender required it to be fixed so the selling broker went out to the property and put the cover back on and for this the borrower was charged another $110. Either the smartest or dumbest appraiser I have ever heard of. Maybe she's thought of a way to make up the money that the AMC is taking from her by creating more work for herself.

Dummy: (February 18, 2010 8:11pm)

What in hell is that (YSP? GSP?) all about? I did not understand a single word. Is there some reason I need to know about it?

5pence: (February 18, 2010 8:09pm)

HVCC = home valuation code of corruption. HVCC = How very corrupt Cuomo. Hoards of very cozy criminals. Half-witted valuation code Cuomo

Anonymous: (February 18, 2010 5:55pm)

Good thing we don't call premium pricing YSP anymore. This credit now goes to the borrower.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 5:37pm)

The government did something naughty on Christmas Eve...On 12/24, the Treasury Dept said in a short statement that it would provide uncapped support to the GSE's over the next 3 yrs so they can maintain a positive net worth. In connection with this announcement, the GSE's also announced in regulatory filings that they would pay their execs up to $42 million in compensation in 2009. Apparently, the price of losing tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars is a raise & a promotion. The bonuses are based not on stock price or profit but: 1 being a leader in the housing recovery by providing liquidity to the mortgage market & helping to prevent foreclosures. 2 protecting taxpayers, achieving our mission & building a more streamlined, high-performing company. 3 measuring, managing & reducing enterprise risk more effectively. The wishy-washy criteria reflects the fact that these are now government-run agencies. As execs they should get government pay. UHH, WHAT? 2 & 3 ARE TOTAL BLLdoodoo.

Valuequestor: (February 18, 2010 5:32pm)

Hello CCAP, Texas also has a good group already started. Many appraisers got together at the Appraisal Summit in Vegas this past December and agreed to start grass roots groups in all the states represented. We are just starting to hear the begining rumbles of progress. I don't care if its the Guild or NAIHP or CCAP. We need to sign up as many appraisers as possible as quickly as possible. Big Voting Blocks influence the elected officials...local, state and national. I'm checking out the Facebook page now...later.

skyrider: (February 18, 2010 4:50pm)

S Fla Appr: I have talked to some up in Mass. I'm looking to start something here. I'm also in south florida.

S. Fla Appr: (February 18, 2010 4:42pm)

I too have experienced the same trends as N. Calif. Have looked to other sources than mortgages with some success. I agree with what you guys are doing. I am in South Fla and only know about 2 appraisers. Don't know of anyone starting anything down here.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 4:30pm)

NCali Appraiser:: I'm there with you bud, hanging by the skin of my teeth but not giving up hope that sanity will reign once again.

To NCali Appraiser:: (February 18, 2010 4:27pm)

CCAP: (February 18, 2010 9:36am) Vonsky - that is what we are doing in SoCal - forming this coalition with the hopes of changing things on a legislative level. We have to play the game at this point. Collectively, we may have a chance. California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals. WE are following Arizona, Colorado, etc. Join us, what do you have to lose at this point?! *AND* Vonsky: (February 18, 2010 9:25am) Vonsky to IN Appraiser. I had a good year last year also, doing FHA work for my clients did a litte AMC work but stopped as the fee was rediculous and I was getting work from my FHA CLients, but now that is gone. I strongly believe that you can get the majority of appraisers to join the Guild and selectively put the hamme done on one AMC at a time. Say for instance we chose AppriserLoft and said for the next month in Massachusetts we are not going to do work for them. The banks that use them would get pretty upset pretty quick. We have decided in Mass. to follow the NJ lead a

NORTHERN CALIFORNIA APPRAISER: (February 18, 2010 4:02pm)

Just about out of business now, after 32 years as an appraiser. Final FHA appraisal done last week, before 2/15 deadline. No appraisals for conventional loans since HVCC took effect, last April. I can't find any direct lenders in my area. Nothing left except non-lender work, but I only get a few of those a year. I never work for AMCs & never will. I have written many times on this forum about appraiser's union & will keep trying, but got very little response from others. We appraisers must be crazy. Our ability to earn a living was taken from us & we can't agree on a unified action to defend ourselves. I still believe that the HVCC/AMC will collapse, if they can't get enough appraisers to work for AMCs. I calculated my overhead - costs me $125-$140 to do an appraisal (not including personal living expenses). AMCs here pay $140-$200 - might as well work for free. Loan officers & realtors unhappy with junk from AMC hacks should turn in bad appraisals to OREA/other state boards.

Happy Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 3:35pm)

Hey A la mode has done something that might help in determining what is the customary appraisal fee in your area. They have put data together to solve that riddle. amc's will probably try to pick their on figure but this will blow them out of the water. Go to: http://www.mercuryvmp.com/analytics/reports and click ont he " Click here" button. You may have to register if you dont use their software, but its supposed to be free. The have compiled data to show the customary fee for each county in the US of A. enjoy.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 3:24pm)

No morals no hazard..... Huh??!!!

5pence: (February 18, 2010 3:08pm)

Just 1 trillion dollars could provide free college for all, free health care for all and ensure social security doesn't go bankrupt and much more. The best thing they can think of to do with that kind of money is prop up banksters so they can continue their scam to their hearts content while it costs every taxpayer obscene amounts of cash. Trillions for huge bonuses, lavish lifestyles, bankster lobbyists and risk taking. This country is going down the toilet when banks matter more than people.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 3:00pm)

Larry's loans: WSJ: The Treasury Department's Christmas Eve Massacre of the US Taxpayer To Benefit Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac On Christmas Eve, one of the quietest news days of the year, the U.S Treasury announced that in lieu of the previous $400 billion backstop, the U.S. taxpayers will now provide unlimited financial support to ensure the survival and liquidity of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for the next 3 years. Apparently, by slipping in this policy change near year end, no new legislation is required from Congress. Which is just as well, since it is unlikely that such an unfathomable level of bailout support would be approved by Congress during a mid-term election year. IN OTHERWORDS : We the taxpayers keep buying unlimited amounts of mortgage backed securities that nobody in the world wants to buy. Nobody. Isn't it great that they're buying things with our money that nobody wants? The Fed isn't gone if they left that kind of money (unlimited) at the Treasury for the GSE's.

MortgageAngel: (February 18, 2010 2:49pm)

FROGGER: Forensic analysis is emerging although I haven't heard of the compane y your refer to. The more documentation there is to review the more effective it is, naturally. For instance if the initial disclosures are available as well as the predoc and final. Which brings up a question - Do you know how they're going about getting the documentation? Is it from borrorwer or are they requesting from lender... both? Curious to see how this goes.

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 2:45pm)

Jersey Girl - appraisersupport.com has a map of those fees you are looking for.

MortgageAngel: (February 18, 2010 2:37pm)

To: I enjoy the show, but So now the truth is over the top? They played a HUGE part then and continue to lobby for room to do same or worse later. Do what's best for the consumer and the reputation of your company will take care of itself.

Larry's loans: (February 18, 2010 2:15pm)

End of Purchase of MBS's? Not necessarily. Here is an FOMC excerpt: To provide support to mortgage lending and housing markets and to improve overall conditions in private credit markets, the Federal Reserve is in the process of purchasing $1.25 trillion of agency mortgage-backed securities and about $175 billion of agency debt. In order to promote a smooth transition in markets, the Committee is gradually slowing the pace of these purchases, and it anticipates that these transactions will be executed by the end of the first quarter. The Committee will continue to evaluate its purchases of securities in light of the evolving economic outlook and conditions in financial markets.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 1:42pm)

Looks the AGA is hot on the chase heheeh. You've GOT to love a Guild! Thanks Jersey Girl.

Jersey Girl: (February 18, 2010 1:39pm)

THANKS everyone so far who's posted something on AMC fees...what borrower is now being charged and what appraisers are getting paid. Please e-mail any similar stories to [email protected] or [email protected] We will try to collect as many of these scenarios as possible. Also if anyone is being pressured by AMCs, this is helpful too. Please spread the word! :)

5pence: (February 18, 2010 1:31pm)

Frank and Brian - maybe we can put out a shout for those that have HUD-1's from the last year to send a copy? With the ALA MODE data, that no one can deny, we'd make a strong case haveing all 3 persepectives. The appraisal order with the low fee, ALA MODE's national sampling and actual HUD-1's. I think it could make a killer case for how the banks are ripping the consumer. Add in how often they are requiring at least 2 appraisals (because they suck) and costing the consumer tons of money. I like it

Bobfrom FL: (February 18, 2010 1:12pm)

Come on guys this isn't about helping the consumer its about forcing everything back to the BIG BANKS. From HVCC to the S.A.F.E. act its all designed to force the little guys out.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 1:10pm)

Hud-1's would tell the whole story, like INappraiser's $800 borrower charge and $300 appraiser fee and for cross-reference the most likely $450 that would be charged without the devil's spawn - amc's.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 1:05pm)

With the A La Mode figures all you'd need to prove amc skimming is copies of the original orders with the low AMC fees. GLTY

5pence: (February 18, 2010 1:03pm)

If you need me to send it to you give me your e-mail address or contact me at [email protected]

INappraiser: (February 18, 2010 1:01pm)

Jersey Girl, my office did an appraisal on a condo unit and charged $300. It is one of the few AMC appraisals we do because the client is a local bank and started using them over 5 years ago. About a month later the borrower called the office and asked my OM what we charge for a typical condo appraisal..She was told that our fee ranged from 300-400 depending on the purpose. The borrower then informed her that we did an appraisal for her and she was charged $800. Yes $800.thats more than a 50/50 split. She was furious. We told here we could not discuss what our fee was...She said she had enough info and hung up....The AMC was STARS.

ssfranny: (February 18, 2010 1:00pm)

Dave: Georgia Assoc Of Mortgage Brokers are already on this per HUD and GFE its a "credit" to the consumer. Not really a charge and certainly not a kickback.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 12:59pm)

You're going to have to log in to get it though. I have it saved on my computer but don't know how to get it here to access. It reads : A La Mode Releases Inaugural National Appraisal Fee Reference™ for FHA and RESPA compliance

5pence: (February 18, 2010 12:56pm)

Jersey Girl: This might help? WinTotal did a survey recently, through their mercury network across the country, on appraisal fees that didn't include AMC's. Very good report and I thank Dave Biggers for putting it together. I think average values are a little low and don't include FHA appraisals or the MC but they do show how much each appraiser in every county in the country is getting screwed by low AMC fees. http://www.mercuryvmp.com/analytics/reports

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 12:54pm)

Jersey Girl-I don't work for AMC's so I don't have an example for you but you need to continue to repost that comment as I am sure there is a whole wave of appraisers here that can give you examples.

Jersey Girl: (February 18, 2010 12:46pm)

FLAppraiser: I am logging onto TBWS for the first time so may be a little late with this...but do you have proof (maybe something in writing) that the consumer paid $400 and the appraiser was paid $150? We are trying to collect this information to present next month. If anyone out there has similar info how the consumer is getting screwed by paying higher appraisal fees than in the past due to the HVCC and AMCs, please help us!

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 12:19pm)

BOB-yeah, just let the lawyers get a sniff of THAT one..'cos I can smell that from here!some loyalty from an insurance company,next they wont pay out because they werent expecting a claim!

BobFrom FL: (February 18, 2010 12:17pm)

Better check your e& o coverage, my appraser wants to retire but his e & o insurer told him if he stops paying for his e&o then they wont cover him on any claims for the past 5 years.

B.Y. Cuomo: (February 18, 2010 12:03pm)

agreed 5spence on market value. The interested buyer with cash offers what its WORTH to HIM - and that can often be different from market value. The buyer without cash may also offer that way, but the lender can't be such a bumpkin. I still think it'd be easier if there was no appraiser. Put the real estate agent's neck on the line if there is a default. If the agent is so sure value is 'whatever the buyer is willing to borrow to get it' - let the agent be responsible if it goes into default. Works for me. Agents carry E&O too, don't they? We appraisers just need the right shove to get into something more lucrative and enjoyable. Thanks to AMCs, a lot of fields are looking more lucrative and enjoyable. For example, cart pushers at some warehouse stores can make $130 a day plus benefits, and no E&O expense, or travel, or licensing, or 28 hours of CE every 2 years...& that's just pushing carts! When the offer is a lowball one, does the agent tell the seller 'that's what it's worth!'...?

CHARLIE: (February 18, 2010 11:47am)

TO 5PENSE...I have homeputer software and have used it for 16 years....it works for me....and to simple solution...thank you for your honest responce

DAVE: (February 18, 2010 11:36am)

In reference to the Band of YSP in Georgia does that also mean that Wells Fargo, BOFA and chase will also be tied to this,Because as of right now, I know they are except from showing YSP to the consumer I wonder whi is writting these LAWS. MMMMMMMMMMM

5pence: (February 18, 2010 11:35am)

I just checked the HVCC petition. It's growing everyday. Over 120,000 now. Congratulations. Think Cuomo's opponent could use those signatures? hahahaaaa

5pence: (February 18, 2010 11:32am)

Market value is not what the buyer wants to pay for a home - It's what the bank can sell it for the day of the appraisal to anybody if they have to take it back that same day !! What the buyer wants to pay is not the market value in all cases.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 11:28am)

To Mark: Apparently the RESPA I was referring too caused a lot of confusion but that's been rectified. They still want you to split out fee - my bad. Last I read appraisal fees and other miscellaneous would be bunched together on 1 line. Anybody know ant different? To Charlie : Wintotal is great software and their Mercury Network is set up as HVCC compliant and you get full fees. I haven't had any luck with it but I've heard other appraisers say it's working for them. HEY FHA APPRAISERS!! Don't accept what the AMC wants to pay or you'll start the same crap all over again with lower and lower fees!! There are much fewer FHA approved appraisers they can call and we can control the fees! Don't settle for less than what you're worth!

BobfromFL: (February 18, 2010 11:26am)

IF the YSP is truly owned and Controlled by the consumer does this mean that the bank will be sending them a 1099 at the end of the year

Blow yourself Cuomo: (February 18, 2010 11:22am)

Realtor ILLinois - you tell clients 'your home is worth what someone is willing to pay for it' but you leave out the important word - CASH. What 'someone is willing to pay CASH for it'. If you find someone willing to pay $100K for that '73 singlewide on an acre beside the landfill, and there are others he could buy for $50K - if he's got the cash, hooray for you & your seller. But if he wants to borrow the $100K to buy that trailer... everything changes. What looks like a dream on wheels to that buyer you found looks more like what it is - a 37 year old trailer next to the landfill, to the people with money to lend. It might be simpler if home loans were just based on a % of the sales price, and realtor was responsible & on the hook if the buyer defaulted for the mortgage. Realtor is the pro in this, right? Should know 'worth' more than the non-investor buyer? Have the realtor sign on contract 'this price is the value' and sue them if it goes in default. No appraisers necessary!

Frogger: (February 18, 2010 11:02am)

Anyone heard of Truth in Lending Auditors (TILA) out of Cheyenne Wyoming. They basically do a forensic review of your bank note looking for fraud. When they find that fraud they approach the lender to modify your loan. They claim great results because they have ammunition against the bank instead of just asking for the mod. This can all be had for about $1800 with a guarantee. The fee is for the audit and any subsequent negotiation with the lender is at no charge. Any fast feedback will be greatly appreciated.

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 10:43am)

CHARLIE-You won't get much work from them. Don't do it.

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 10:40am)

I received a Colorado amc request formed by 3 colorado apps that require a $50 annual fee to join plus they get a cut off the top of the ap88al fee.The annual fee irks me but the offer of a 10% split intrigues me,I wonder how long it will be before that gets increased in their favor.I wont be answering that fax or joining their org.

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 10:37am)

CA-what I have found is that the amc costs get shoved onto the ap88r.Licensing,E&O,the cost of their regs will get passed on to the consumer....us. PCV are mandating I increase my E&O to cover an amount I am not willing to provide,so that their costs are covered in the event of legal action.Look at the amc ap88r contract,it usually states that the ap88r HAS to cover incidental expenses for legal action which INCLUDES their legal fees.

pro-transparency: (February 18, 2010 10:36am)

http://www.ustreas.gov/inspector-general/testimony/t-05052009.pdf STATEMENT OF HON. ERIC M. THORSON INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BEFORE THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS MAY 5, 2009 Part I continued) As a result of our inquiry into this matter, OTS removed the senior official involved with the IndyMac backdated capital contribution. That individual has since retired [With Full Pension] from federal service. As a result of another backdating, the one directed by OTS, the Acting Director of OTS was placed on administrative leave pending a Departmental review. . . .. So far, including the two backdated capital contributions already discussed, OTS has identified to us six institutions where backdating occurred.

CHARLIE: (February 18, 2010 10:36am)

I just got an offer from Class appraisals aka Mercury Network.. I have to buy alamode software in order to get work from them...has anyone done business with this company????? if so, what are your experiences???? PLEASE SOME RESPOND, RIGHT NOW $200 IS A LOT OF MONEY TO ME...THEN AN ANNUAL FEE OF $300.....WOW WHAT A RACKET

pro-transparency: (February 18, 2010 10:35am)

http://www.ustreas.gov/inspector-general/testimony/t-05052009.pdf STATEMENT OF HON. ERIC M. THORSON INSPECTOR GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY BEFORE THE HOUSE COMMITTEE ON FINANCIAL SERVICES SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS MAY 5, 2009 Specifically, in its review of IndyMac, the SEC came across a workpaper prepared by IndyMac’s independent auditor which indicated that a senior OTS official approved a capital contribution to be backdated to a previous quarter so that the thrift would maintain its well-capitalized position for that quarter. Less than 4 months later, IndyMac failed. . . . the workpaper was provided to our office through FDIC Inspector General Rymer. Our auditors and investigators followed-up and confirmed the events happened as described in the workpaper. Through this work, we also learned that OTS permitted, and in one case directed, other thrifts to backdate capital contributions. (Part I)

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 10:30am)

A Appraiser-I agree with you thanks for the info...

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 10:28am)

CA Appraiser-Good idea because the way it stands now trainees don't have a leg to stand on. If an AMC does accept their work at what probably $150 there is not a supervisor out there if the trainee is really new who won't sign for less than $150 so it is next to impossible for a new appraiser to get into the industry right now and I would imagine ANY trainee that is new and has a current license will be letting it expire and why would anyone in their right mind want to get into the appraisal business right now.

A Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 10:28am)

Simple Solution: Check-out National Association of Independent Housing Professionals (www.naihp.org). Frank and Brian says they are ok. Based on the fact Frank and Brian have done more about the situation than the majority of us, I don't think they would stear us wrong (they are a good referance). With all of this being so grass roots it's hard to say who or what is going to be effective. (No track record to go by). All we can do is rely on referances and listen to what these associations stand for and hope they do what they say. If we join, it will be up to us make sure they do stay sted to the course. STAY AWAY FROM APPRAISAL INSTITUTE!!! They think appraisers need to be on a leash! There is a guy a few blogs below that is looking for names of numbers to start chapters in each state. I'm going to drop him a line. My thought is to join a few and see which one does the best job and narrow it that way.

lendershop: (February 18, 2010 10:27am)

The banks are letting us order appraisals thru any " reputable" AMC that has met the requirements of the Mortgage Letter 2009-28. Why don't you appraisers just set up an AMC ? If you cant beat them join them.

CA Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 10:22am)

The present situation (HVCC intitiated) is the worst I have seen in 20 years of business. The California OREA has seen their present roster of appraisers sharply decline and new applicants are very few. This situation is having a dramatic effect on their budget and they have made serious cutbacks in their staff and service. Since the AMCs are acting as supervisor appraisers and are guaranteeing the appraisals to their clients, why not require them to co-sign the appraisals like any other supervisor is required to do? By signing as supervisors, the AMCs would have to accept full responsibility for the contents of the appraisals, which would force them to increase their liability and expenses significantly (licenses, E&O, etc.). To cover their increased costs, they would need to raise their prices dramatically. Their clients would realize that it would be much cheaper to order appraisals directly from the appraisers. Any other thoughts?

Bust in CA: (February 18, 2010 10:21am)

Joecolorado and A Appraiser: Yes, you added the things I didn't mention: choice, training, mentoring, face to face etc. Thanks for your support. You Get it!

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 10:19am)

CCAP-I am sending you an e mail now. Thanks. I haven't set up a Facebook yet. On my list....LOL..

SoCal Mortgage Broker: (February 18, 2010 10:10am)

Suck it Cuomo:Financial Freedom asked us to pick from one of four AMCs for FHA appraisals on Reverse Mortgages. The one we picked had a fee schedule showing they charge $425 and pay the appraiser $325. We have been trying to get the lenders we do business with to accept a list of appraisers we were using for FHAs but so far have not been sucessful.

AbleRonny: (February 18, 2010 10:01am)

Frank and Brian - I took Hammer's webinar last week and found it to be very helpful and jammed packed with info. It was great and a real spirit booster, too! I highly recommend it to anyone who wants to get their motors running again. Finally! Something positive!

KillCoumoCode: (February 18, 2010 9:59am)

HiDeZAppraiserGal, I forgot to mention I turn down those AMC Appraisals. The pressure on Appraisers to go beyond there scope is mounting. AMC pressure is far greater than any broker pressure. At least with broker pressure, we just go find another one that wouldn't pressure you and on the contrary would insist on a clean accurate report. AMC's pressure you to do it for least amount, turn time is 24 hrs after inspection and it has to go through there automatic reviewer first. I haven't had one that didn't come back as "rejected" because the review system doesn't match my software's PDF format. Every AMC has there own protocol and prefer you use a certain type of Software. Setting up can take weeks. So instead of doing appraisals we have to spend time setting up with each AMC. I really have to stop blogging and find a real job now. I'll have my license for another 4 years. Just hope I'll be able to use it in the future. Signing off for good. Good bye Think Big Work Small.

CCAP: (February 18, 2010 9:58am)

simple solution - our facebook is up now under California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals - our website is still under construction. I can email you an application - just email me at [email protected] if you don't do facebook. We are gaining some momentum .

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 9:57am)

Not to mention that many of us are over 50 and been in the business for many, many years. Not that we can't do other things but unemployment is high and why hire me when an employer can get a 30 year old. So they can't discriminate for age you say. BS. If I were doing the hiring I'd find a way to get the younger person without appearing to be discriminating.

AbleRonny: (February 18, 2010 9:55am)

Loan Gunman - Thank you for your comment. I, too, find the NMLS website a bugger to navigate, and the info is vague, at best.

A Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 9:52am)

Ran out of characters: A Union/Guild setting fees or about the people that don't join. Well if you have not noticed our fees are already set. By people who are not even in our industry. And FHA is right now asking us to set our fees. Regarding the ones who are not in an association of some kind is irrelevant. If the association even accounts for 25% of appraisers in an area there will not be a choice for some work to come that way. If we do the math it takes an average of two to three AMC orders to make as much as one full fee order. If 25% is comming the way of the Guild/Union at full fees than those appraisers that make up that 25% will be making the same amount as those not in the Guild/Union at less time expended. I agree with the comment made below, those who are taking the lesser fee orders will eventually come around. Guild/Union what ever I'm in.

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 9:49am)

CA-HiDeZAppraiserGal & KillCoumoCode-I am right there with you guys. My appraisal business is now dead without FHA appraisals as I refuse to work for AMC's. I have gone back to what I was doing before appraisals (communications) but unfortunately so many good appraisers don't know anything else and can't do anything else and are forced to work for these AMC for these low fees. It is insulting and degrading to us.

wa appraiser: (February 18, 2010 9:47am)

Amc are forcing us to silently out bid each other for work, if you post your usual fee, you will never make the list, that is crap. So, we end up with the good appraisers going out of business and the least experienced doing 150-200$ appraisals with mls photos.

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 9:44am)

jp-I agree. It seems as if it is no longer a priority.

CA-HiDeZAppraiserGal: (February 18, 2010 9:43am)

@killcuomo...i heard ya man....im in the same boat with 22yrs as certified in CA...lost all my clients and now rely mainly on bankruptcy attorney work which is sporadic at best....something has to be done with this industry...

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 9:42am)

CCAP-I am in SoCal. How do I join?

jp: (February 18, 2010 9:41am)

frank and brian - it seems that you guys have not made any comments on hvcc at all - can you please give us some sort of update if you have one -if you dont let us know that thanks

KillCoumoCode: (February 18, 2010 9:37am)

I did approx. $25,000 last year before HVCC hit. Last six month of last year I did Approx. $6,000. This year so far a whopping $1,475. E&O was $880. My mortgage is $1,775 per month. I keep getting AMC orders for appraisals over 90 miles away for $200. I would spend 3 hours on the road, 1/2 tank of gas, wear n tear on car, pay for data services, MLS, location maps, plat maps, flood maps, etc.... and after taxes, I might clear $100 for 8 hours of work or $12.50 per hr. That also has to be split into two days of work if your going to be able to get in another inspection. I used to love what I do. Now I can't wait to find something else to do. 18 years appraising, and now I can't even pay my utilities. Thanks to the Coumocode. When I see his picture, I just want to punch him in the facebook for what his done to me, my company, my clients and especially to my family.

CCAP: (February 18, 2010 9:36am)

Vonsky - that is what we are doing in SoCal - forming this coalition with the hopes of changing things on a legislative level. We have to play the game at this point. Collectively, we may have a chance. California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals. WE are following Arizona, Colorado, etc. Join us, what do you have to lose at this point?!

A Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 9:36am)

We seem to think appraisers just have innate instinc to appraise and we were hatched that way. We all had to start some place and we all made mistakes. There will continue to be mistakes. We continue to find fault with each other and that is a big reason we are where we are. Because we have a superiority complex and have no problem pointing out people in our industry that we think are not doing it the way we think it should be done. Don't get me wrong, there are appraisers that do mean malace and are constantly tip the scales of ethics but there are these people in every industry and time usually takes care of them in one way or another. We have got to stop sabotaging ourselves. The majority of what is being used against us at this present time is what we as appraisers have been crying for. I have never heard of an industry as a whole that cries and begs for regulation more than we do. We have to come together and stop finding fault with each other. We are worried about

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 9:30am)

Illinois Realtor - So you didn't see the appraisal. See if your lender thinks it was a poor appraisal and they can turn it in. Just because it did not appraise to sales price doesn't mean it was a poor appraisal. I'm not going to go into it or this blog will talk about it all day long, but market value is not necessarily sales price, a misconception that just won't go away.....

Vonsky: (February 18, 2010 9:25am)

Vonsky to IN Appraiser. I had a good year last year also, doing FHA work for my clients did a litte AMC work but stopped as the fee was rediculous and I was getting work from my FHA CLients, but now that is gone. I strongly believe that you can get the majority of appraisers to join the Guild and selectively put the hamme done on one AMC at a time. Say for instance we chose AppriserLoft and said for the next month in Massachusetts we are not going to do work for them. The banks that use them would get pretty upset pretty quick. We have decided in Massachusetts to follow the NJ lead and get the Guild up and running as quick as possible. Looking for others to in other states to take up the cause. Who will do it in Indiana

Suck it Cuomo: (February 18, 2010 9:23am)

Frank & Brian in an effort to change the topic and mood of the forum I would love to hear more about video marketing/skills. I am amazed by the potential video marketing has and what you two guys have been able to do. I would love to learn more about how TBWS came to be and the impact you guys have had.

SimpleSolution: (February 18, 2010 9:21am)

Frank & Brian or anyone else-Are there any new updates on the HVCC or do we pretty much have to wait for it to go away in November?

sheraldia: (February 18, 2010 9:20am)

To those talking about turning in bad appraisals...why do you think we are here? No one turned them in before and if they did? Well our local appraisal boards didn't do a thing about it.

A Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 9:14am)

ILL Appraiser: The difference between working for a shop and an AMC is there was a choice (key word was). A shop WAS where an appraiser could be given the oppertunity to train and earn. It WAS up to the appraiser if they wanted to stay and take the fee split or go out on their own clients by marketing themselves and finding their own clients. This whole thing is about choices and abilities that are not there anymore.

sheraldia: (February 18, 2010 9:04am)

BTW we are all now contributing to rising unemployment. At least for us, being incorporated and pay unemployment taxes (which went from .06 to .76% for 2010) we will be able to collect unemployment. And I used to gripe about paying that...

sheraldia: (February 18, 2010 9:01am)

Bust in CA...we are busting as well. This week has been about the worst since we started our own shop 16 years ago. We have moved into our home (which we can no longer afford and are trying to sell) and have eliminated as many costs as possible. But we still have E & O, data sources, gas, education etc...We have a son in college a mother in a nursing home. We don't do much, don't live extravagantly and yet we are paycheck to paycheck now. We have to take what we can get...in our area there are plenty of appraisers who will do it for $200 whatever the property is. We will soon be letting our one other appraiser and support staff go. We can no longer operate on minium wage. We had dreams...they are now nowhere in the foreseeable future.

Realtor ILLinois: (February 18, 2010 9:00am)

ILL Appraiser- yes I am in the western suburbs of Chicago. Is the lender obligated to tell me who the appraiser was? No the appraiser did not contact anyone. I often tell my clients "your home is worth what someone is willing to pay for it" so if someone is willing to pay a particular price why not appraise it at that, if it's a regular sale.

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 8:59am)

Joe-My best guess is that it is a "don't care" issue. I have found, getting poor appraisals down state is near impossible. I've spoken with realtors and lenders that have gotten these poor appraisals and asked them to send them but they are unwilling to do so or can't for whatever reason. That is why I volunteered to help.

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 8:56am)

Sky-I know that you are correct as I would do exactly the same thing, now I gotta go and get some work done,but I will be checking in periodically,keep up the good fight everybody.

weelest: (February 18, 2010 8:52am)

Brian/Frank I have researched the Georgia archives for both the senate and house and find no action since 04/09 in regards to your video today. I am proactive in these matters and will work against it but need verification to go to my senator and representative who are friends.

skyrider: (February 18, 2010 8:48am)

joecolorado, that is exactly what I was saying. She should turn in the file to the state and let them handle the matter.

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 8:43am)

Ill-whether they KNOW or whether they CARE?

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 8:42am)

Realtor Illinois - Please send the poor appraisal to the State of Illinois licensing board with comps proving the value. You don't need to do a review just give them the info that proves the value. Don't say they "low-balled" or "didn't come up with value" just that the appraisal appears to be done by an incompetent appraiser and you have enclosed or attached comparables sales and/or active listings to prove your point. Are you in Northeastern Illinois? If so I can help.

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 8:41am)

Skyrider-I am sure that you meant to say"that is why SOME ap88rs are not doing their job and ALL ap88rs are being blamed for problems"The Realtor needs to report this ap88r to the State.Let them make the decision, after all its them that gave him/her the license considering the ap88r as being competent when obviously there is an issue.

CAHiDezAppraisalGal: (February 18, 2010 8:40am)

@FLAppraiser, i know what your going thru with the PCV crap, i have an inside "source" at that company who tells me they have meetings all the time with their "order assigners" that if they dont net the company a certain profit margin they are written up and/or ulitmately let go. Pathetic isnt it?

Mark: (February 18, 2010 8:38am)

5pence - where is that in RESPA as I just looked and reread section 8 yesterday.

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 8:36am)

I've been an independent contractor for years now and all my clients appreciated my work, at least most of the time. (We all know when they didn't) I'm just saying that if an appraiser who worked in a shop is now busy doing AMC work, would they even know there is a problem? If they're willing to continue doing split fee work, and are making say $400 a day, why would they stop?

skyrider: (February 18, 2010 8:36am)

ILL. Realtor, apprantly, the appraiser that was hired to do the job did not speak to the realtor involved with house with no walls. It's appraiser like that who do not do their job and verify the ssles. This is why appraiser are being blamed for problems, because they're not doing their job.

sparky: (February 18, 2010 8:36am)

That YSP deal in Georgia is a huge problewm, once again the banks will end up running and ruining the world (again). An equally huge issue is the criteria they are using to determine credit worthiness for the new Mortgage Broker licensing. Many of us had issue with creditdue to the economy, lost homes foreclosures etc, we might not be able to GET licensed. That is a specific prejudice towards us and needs to be halted of the end will come very soon. Between the YSP and The credit issue with Licensing we could all be screwed. Oh yeah, the appraisers are getting completely hosed and the AMC's are a joke and income stream and offer MORE control for the banks. Banks will soon have complete control of everything unless something changes...If the problems get to a critcal mass some banks executives might need to hide as people can only take so much. The towns people will carry the torches and come to the mansions like in the Frankenstein movies. The bank execs might be unhuman too...

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 8:35am)

Realtor ill-I am sorry you are going thro that *& it kinda looks like a lazy app8r,but just think of the ap88rs that hate drive by's.2055's dont help anything,they put the liability on ap88rs as we have to certify that figure without seeing ALL of the property,what absolute rubbish,all to save $25.I personally dont do them,but the scope of work shouldnt get reduced by the request from the client,the same work NEEDS to be done by the ap88r to satisfy USPAP and laziness is not an excuse.PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE... REPORT the ap88r to the State,let the State investigate.If there are issues they will have to earn their salaries, thats why they are there.....use them

5pence: (February 18, 2010 8:34am)

Mark, to show you what we're up against, RESPA was re-written so that not splitting out fees is no longer a violation. Funny how that happened ehhh?

5pence: (February 18, 2010 8:29am)

Appraisers : There is nothing wrong with trying and I don't mean to denigrate your efforts but what you've all come up with here has been tried. No results so far. Maybe 1 of you has the magic key to get rid of HVCC in your efforts but I don't see it. All you're coming up with is unoriginal ways to deal with HVCC and amcs'. The last guy with an original idea about Cuomo and the HVCC might still be sitting in jail with a $500 million dollar bail. Crazy lol. Stop trying to make a bad situation palatable. We need to get to the source of all these problems - Cuomo. I have a plan and it involves his vanity and his political ambitions - his weak spots. Scafflaw it if you want but we're almost at the Swan Song part of this play where appraisers fade away. Anything that doesn't have a chance of working in the next 10 months won't change things. Efforts should be put to more direct actions with a timely affect.

Realtor ILLinois: (February 18, 2010 8:27am)

As a realtor I just had my 1st experience with an appraisal coming in low - $40,000 less than sales price! Which is a crock. The appraiser did only an exterior and used a home for sale next door as a comp. That home is missing walls, down to its studs! If he had gone inside he would have seen that. Not a comparable at all! I think he was lazy. The home is definitely worth what the sales price is. The lender is going to request another appraiser and we hope that he does his job better! BTW- Love the info every day Frank & Brian!

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 8:26am)

Ill-because when you accept the amc fee for a "typical"fee,THAT fee becomes the norm & is definately not the "usual" fee split amount you are used to.Remaining offices still open with fee split ap88rs now have to work for THAT reduced fee,which is now further split by the office.the overall effect is fee reduction,so its ok for you as you are used to & accept the split fee,but think of the ap88rs that cant or dont want go work for amcs and get a lot more from the office environment than you experienced.With amcs you have to pay their E&O.you dont get to select your app88ls.You have to work with their "typical"fee.You have to have their turnaround time,you dont get to discuss problems on the ap88al with your mentor.It looks good for you now but you have absolutely no control over your fees....none.You work for what they think your worth actually is to them,not to you.Your control is lost,you can't canvas for clients,subservience at its finest.

Mark: (February 18, 2010 8:23am)

AMC - they are violating RESPA section 8 - markups, kickbacks and split fees. The appraisal fee is shown as $450 to the appraisal management company of which the fee is then "split" to the appraiser. The AMC did not complete an appraisal report, they provided a BS service. If they want paid, then the AMC fee should be seperate and the appraisal fee is also seperate so the appraiser should get the $450 and the AMC can get their additional $150 on top. This is how it is required for FHA starting 2/15. If the AMC is going to split the fee, then we all need to report the violation as a RESPA violation

jrcppariser: (February 18, 2010 8:22am)

The AMC's have made many good appraisers leave the business. After 25 years in the business my son was going to be an appraiser. I told him that it was a good business but no longer if you work for lenders. It is not fun anymore as I feel like I am a kid. When did you do the inspection, did you do it, and when can we have it. Some high end appraisals take more time as I like to talk with agents involved in the transaction. I do not know whom is working for $20 an hour doing the $200 appraisals but I remain slow doing them for $350. Most of my lender clients were taken away and many were development over 25 years of business. We remain the whipping boys for the government when they and the lending decisions made by the banks are the main cause of this problem. Enforce the rules we already have not but in more legistlation.

CCAP: (February 18, 2010 8:16am)

Joecolorado - you are right on! Well put. We all need to be pro-active at this point. Complaining alone is not helping. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=308564841451&ref=ts#!/group.php?gid=308564841451&ref=ts

5pence: (February 18, 2010 8:16am)

Arnie : if, if, if. Not going to happen when skippy is doing $100 1004's. Realize what's going on - we are going to be replaced by AVM's - that is why fees are going to keep going down until they're equivalent to the cost of an AVM and then they'll say - look at this crap these $50 appraisers are giving us. AVM's actually do a better job at the same cost, so, we really don't need appraisers anymore. That is the goal of the banksters.

Blow yourself Cuomo: (February 18, 2010 8:14am)

AMC's routinely steal 30-40% of the appraisal fee. What does the appraiser get for the mugging? Nothing. Does the AMC provide E&O? No. Does the AMC provide health or life insurance, or any benefits? No; the appraiser or his firm that was getting $350 prior to HVCC & providing his/her own benefits out of that, who is resigned to work for these scumbags, is on his/her own. Any lender that uses an AMC that steals 20% or more of the appraisers fee deserves every problem that results. Appraisers left to limp along on the crumbs handed out - monkeys in pants trying to knock out 5 garbage reports a day for $200 each, while others look for something better. I wouldn't recommend appraising as a career except to my worst enemies. Appraisers who will do appraisals for 60% of the fee are being mugged; no doubt some dumb ones enjoy the mugging, while others feel helpless to combat it. Sad thing is, there is no help; we're on our own to fight the mugging; no one cares & some appraisers even love it.

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 8:13am)

Joe-I understand what you are saying but what is the real difference between working for a local appraisal shop at split fee, once you've been trained, and working for an AMC? I know of shops here that the owners made money hand over fist without doing much of anything except having the clients. No training, no mentoring, no reviewing, just having a good client base and assigning appraisals. I worked for one once. Had Sears as a client, years ago, and was one lousy appraiser. Had less experience than I but was happy I could do FHA so he could line his pockets. Didn't last though because I caught a huge error of his on a house he had done in the past and because this was a refi, to save face, he redid my report with his erroneous info, used my photos, and deal was done.

CCAP: (February 18, 2010 8:13am)

I have just joined a group of appraisers in SoCal who are forming an advocacy group due to the current situation appraisers find themselves in. Iam an certified appraiser with almost 20 years of experience and am barely stayin afloat. We are currently finishing the bylaws and our website wiill be up within a few weeks. I have searched all over the country looking for an opportunity like this and I really feel its time to take our industry back. Please check out our Facebook page under California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals. Join us or be a fan. We will be updating facebook while the website is built. There is more info and an event this weekend in Reseda. Frank and Brian - you are doing and amazing job and I forward this every day and put it on my FB page - FB does work!

ARNIE45: (February 18, 2010 8:08am)

IF APPRAISERS QUIT APPRAISING FOR A WEEK OR TWO, THE MESSAGE WOULD BE SENT - ITS TOO EASY. IM SURE THE SKIPPYS WOULD WANT MORE MONEY IN THE END TOO. APPRAISERS CANT BE REPLACED BY CHEAP LABOR SOUTH OF THE BORDER. NOBODYS MAKING ANY MONEY ANYWAY, WHATS THE DIFFERENCE. THE APPRAISERSUPPORT.COM WEBSITE IS PRETTY GOOD. I'VE CONTRIBUTED TO IT 5 TIMES. I KNOW THERE ARE A FEW AMC'S GETTING P/O'D AT THE CREATORS.

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 8:03am)

Dag-send those "undervalued" appraisals if they are poorly done to the state board. The licensing agencies need to know that many of the AMC appraisers are incompetent.

Charlie: (February 18, 2010 8:03am)

Appraisers should be paid a minimum of $400 per standard 1004 appraisal.

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 8:02am)

goodness-you obviously dont understand the problem,ALL OF THE INDUSTRY IS AFFECTED BY THIS,appraisers are the first hit,and due to no other input from you,the discussion has veered to the problem of hvcc &amc's again.Rather than berate the ap88rs why dont you start up your own string instead of castigating us.I will comment on yours if you have issues I think I can contribute,however,you need to be proactive instad of negative.give us some input on your issues.

skyrider: (February 18, 2010 8:02am)

Yes, you will still have appraisers working for a smaller fee for amc's, but it will get to a point, that they will not be able to do all the work. When that happens, the other appraiser's within a Guild/Union will be doing that overflow work. Then what will happen is the appraisers that are hold outs on the Guild/Union will stop and think, why should I work for 60% of a fee when the Guild/Union appraisers is getting their full fee?

5pence: (February 18, 2010 7:59am)

joe - the main USPAP violation in the new Wells form is that you only get paid if you can make a certain value. It's a free comp check. Think there's any incentive there for skippy to make value every time?

arnie45: (February 18, 2010 7:57am)

INapp, the turn time stinks anyways with these AMC's, we might as well get paid. If I had to choose between a slow turn time to the bank/customer, or staying in my home and making them wait another couple days, I'll take the pay. It's obvious everyone looks out for themselves - why cant the appraisers do the same.

Vonsky: (February 18, 2010 7:57am)

The fee split was always 50% or more now I hear the AMC's charge 450-500 and pay as little as $195.00 maybe less. I just lost the rest of my clients on Monday and have not seen any work since. The larger shops were always the place where new appraisers learned their trade now how is that possible If I get plenty of work from an AMC I certainly can not farm it out at what $112.50 per gig. No one, not even a kid, would work for that given what you now have to do 6 comps, 1004MC and the like. Not going to happen. So where does the next generation of appraisers come from. I have no problem with AMC's - IF THEY LET ME COLLECT MY FEE AT THE DOOR. Then they can charge the customer whatever they want for the AMC service. You see MB make more money as the loan amoounts increase RE Brokers make more as the housing stock goes up in vaue. but under this new reality Appraisers have no pricing power and the fees will undoubtedly never rise as it is not being fomulated in an open market.

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 7:56am)

ILL Appraiser-unfortunately the "split fee" you mention,becomes the 'typical fee" for ALL ap88rs which is a reduction in fees.THAT is part of the problem.That also doesn't help the office owner after the costs of mentoring a junior,(which will not happen anymore),as the fees will be even more reduced due to the now "typical" fee offered by the amc's.The office owner doesnt get a break,S/He will jhave to accept the morsels shelled out by amc's,the office bills are not reduced because they are now"typical" and what happened to my office and Bust in CA's office will happen throughout the nation due to the myopic foresight of our illustious leaders,non support fro our associations AI and ASA in particular,and greedy amc's using cheap ap88rs.BUT you get what you pay for.

DAG: (February 18, 2010 7:54am)

Loan Gunman - thank you for validating my feelings about the NMLS website. I'm glad it is just not me - without a doubt the least intuitive website I've ever seen. Thanks for the smack down Frank - I was amused! My chuckle for the day. I believe the usual and customary fees for FHA appraisals will be what the AMC has been charging. My experienced, honest appraiser with whom I used to do business called the AMC's one of my lenders uses to see why he was not getting business. Answer was simple - you said your min fee was $$$ and we only pay $145. That is why I continually have appraisals that are undervalued. This has turned into an appraisal forum, but we are all in it. Maybe someday this will go away. Is it possible it has been less than a year of AMC's.

INappraiser: (February 18, 2010 7:50am)

I am all about trying to find a way to keep our fees where they should be..but how do you propose that a Union would be better. The appraisers that currently work for half fee would still be out there. They would now be the “SCABS”. You can’t get every appraiser to join the union as many would not. I worked in a union environment prior to becoming an appraiser..over 12 years ago. Both as a union member worker and then out of the union in management. While they do promote good pay and benefits..they do not always promote speedy turnaround time… I have a very good friend who is the head of a local union for a large company..He and I have some very heated discussions on the union topic. I do not see how..as individual contractors this could be done. They will hire outside the union for lesser fee. BTW..I do not work for AMC’s on a regular basis and had a very good year last year.

Vonsky: (February 18, 2010 7:49am)

Not only that but the appraisers that work in larger shops, I worked for a thirty person shop outside of Boston and made half the fee. I always knew what the fee was. I didn't have to run an office. And when I was a trainee I was under his E&O. the Idea there was he was large enough to handle all the day-to-day administration and collections costs of doing business. He paid once a week no matter when he actually got paid. If the house was a million dollars we got more from the client as there is usually more work to do. it was a voluntary thing, and it wasn't the only game in town. lots of the folks who worked there were lic. and or certified and sure they did some stuff on there own as well and the company sent work to augment what they did on their own. I have since started my own business four years ago and was quite successful. I used to do a few AMC type assignements and took the smaller fee as it was fill-in work. still did all my own assignments at $350/$400 and $500 for multi's

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 7:48am)

Master-if you are employed by an amc/bank or investor as an ap88r as they KNOW you as an ap88r, and asked for your opinion on value,you act as an ap88r and must comply with USPAP standards.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 7:47am)

Vonsky: If want to forming a Union - you should probably talk to these people. They are the Union of Real Estate Appraisers in Maryland. They were able to form a union through the painters union. They could probably give you some great tips. Here's the link http://www.unionofrealestateappraisers.com/ Still, you should know a union is not for the self-employed, a Guild is. Here's a link to the American Guild of Appraisers also if you're interested in forming a Guild for the self-employed appraiser. http://www.appraisersguild.org/default.htm .. Talk to anybody there, I've spoken with them before and they are very prominent appraisers with tons of experience before Congress etc.. I hope that helps. As you can tell I've been at this for a while...

joecolorado: (February 18, 2010 7:45am)

Bust in CA-I had to do exactly what you are going through,all of my appraisers are now gone and I am back on my own,can just barely survive due to very few outgoing bills,but I am lucky,I planned for the worst and now the worst is here.I will only work for my worth,have set my limits & I stick to them,have been getting piecemeal work in but foresee a career change pretty soon after 39 yrs+/- as a qualified,certified,designated senior ap88r as nothing seems to be effective at grass roots level.Pols dont care,The State doesnt care,the other cheapo amc ap88rs dont care and its not going to get any better,I hope for better times but am getting pretty disallusioned.Reviews are not being done ouside amc's so the bad reports dont get reported.stats are being skewed by amc's to favor them,what a fiasco.sad times for us all,but I'm not finished yet,will fight to the end.Just hang in there are long as you can...I am.

Vonsky: (February 18, 2010 7:38am)

I AM LOOKING FOR ONE APPRAISER IN EACH STATE TO LEARN A TECHNIQUE WHERE WE CAN CONTACT EVERY FHA APPRAISER IN A MATTER OF DAYS AND WE CAN GET THE BALL ROLLOING ON A UNION. LET'S CALL IT NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF REAL ESTATE APPRAISER. OR RESIDENTIAL REAL ESTATE APPRAISERS GUILD/UNION. WHATEVER BUT I HAVE BEEN TALKING UNION FOR MONTHS AND NOTHING HAPPENS. BUT IF I CAN GET ONE PERSON FROM EACH STATE TO START THE BALL ROLLING I CAN SHOW YOU HOW TO CONTACT EACH PERSON IN YOUR STATE QUICKLY. IF YOU REALLY WANT A UNIOIN THEN CONTACT ME AT [email protected] send a phone number and first name and I will call you to discuss.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 7:38am)

HVCC is not only killing appraisers, but it's messing with the well-established good reputations of local brokers & realtors and making them look bad when everything they've worked on in a loan depends on a bottom of the barrel appraiser that usually doesn't even know the area & is too inept to value it correctly even if they did. Add to that the added consumer costs for the worthless contributions of these amc's & you've got no reason at all to want to have to deal with them. Also add that the lifeblood of this country, the mortgage market, is being valued by banks that don't give a flying **** about accuracy as their bottom line is being padded with our tax dollars to the tune of trillions of dollars-our money being spent as a mandate by this goverment that was established by the people to defend the common trust. Do you realize what trillions of dollars could do? Free college & free health care for all & those costs would barely make a dent in the $8 trillion, 3+ yr GSE bailouts.

Suck it Cuomo!: (February 18, 2010 7:28am)

Does anybody know if FHA appraisals have their own AMC's or if it is the loan officers or lenders choice where to send them? I've been asking the few loan officers I've been working with and they weren't sure what was going to happen. I bet it will most likely depend on the lender, but if FHA appraisals are now $250 or less, this is one less appraiser in the industry.

Loan Gunman on the Grassy Knoll: (February 18, 2010 7:28am)

Does anyone else think the NMLS website totally sucks? It is one of the least intuitive websites I have ever seen. Obviously there was no incentive to make it user-friendly as they have us by the gomers, we either use it or lose it. I wonder if the same people designed the new GFE.

weelest: (February 18, 2010 7:25am)

Have researched Ga. SB 57, I see what you mentioned but there has been no action in the last 7 days in the senate. Would you direct me so that I can confront my senator.

Goodness Sakes: (February 18, 2010 7:25am)

How does this forum always turn into an appraisal discussion? The boys could say that we have been invaded from Mars and these guys would say it's because of HVCC! We're all tired of your appraisal rants. isn't there an appraiser forum you all can hang out on?

Look in the Mirror: (February 18, 2010 7:21am)

It would be great to get a lender that successfully works open houses, the literature they bring, or the verbage they use to convert some of those lookers coming in to look at the open home to filling out loan apps.

Bust in CA: (February 18, 2010 7:20am)

ILL Appraiser. Some of the difference were larger compensation, volume, rush fees added, and the main one: LOCAL appraisals.

Senior Advocate: (February 18, 2010 7:12am)

A little off todays subject - I have worked in the Senior Market for quite a while and the FHA HVCC is going to have a tremendous impact on that market. It is imperative we have a good estimates of the value of a property prior to doing a reverse mortgage for a senior. With the HVCC it's anyone guess on the value's that will come in. Now a senior will have to put out more money (that they don't have enough of anyway) to determine "if" they can even do the mortgage. All of these changes are supposed to help the consumer. I fail to see it! A few bad apples don't make the mortgage industry corrupt. If we attempted to wipe out the politicians and banking industry in the same manner well........

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 7:00am)

Bust in CA-In your 10 appraiser shop, what were you paying your appraisers? Was it a split fee? If so, what is the difference whether an appraiser works with you or with an AMC? A split fee is very similar to what the AMC's are paying.

A Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 6:59am)

Ran out of characters: My point and the point that becomes more and more clear this is no longer a government for the people. Appraisers: So what is customary? I say what the AMC's are charging $450. to $550. for FHA reports and that is what is currently customary. Why should we be expected to take less because their dead weight has been taken from our fees.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 6:55am)

Master: This was posted yesterday : USPAP Instructor: (February 17, 2010 6:21pm) Hope you've been hearing the Wells Fargo flap. They've come out with a new Appraisal form that vioaltes the laws of many states and USPAP itself. Even the regulators are commenting that any appraiser that utilizes the form will be in violation. How has Wells handled this? Attack those that point it out. Join us for a discussion in the "USPAP, Uniform Standards of Professional Practice" LinkedIn.com is a professional network that is free to join. Look for the group called USPAP.

A Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 6:53am)

I'm not really clear on why a state would feel it necessary to spend time on an issue like YSP. I might be missing something but it would seem there would other issues to address or better things to do. The only reasons I can think of is government is once again looking out for big daddy bank or they really have nothing better to do. It's happening once again right in front of our eyes. I live in the Central San Joaquin Valley in California. The mecca of the worlds agriculture. The Central San Joaquin Valley has been commended for feeding approximatly 1/4 of the world. Today right now federal government imposed regulation has stopped irrigation to 10,000's of 1,000's of acres of farm land put 1,000's out of work and standing in food lines waiting to be fed by the goverment that has made it impossible for them to feed themselves. Many small farming communities are 60% unemployed. Farms that have been in families for generations are out of business.

Bust in CA: (February 18, 2010 6:50am)

FL Appraiser-After 19 years of a successful appraisal co. today, we are packing it up and moving out of our 10 appraiser office. Lost what was left of our FHA business on Feb. 15th. For everyone that says just refuse the AMC low fees...Tell me how you are surviving??? The fee shops have been eliminated and it is everyone out for themselves! How are you surviving!!!!??? Please share.

Master: (February 18, 2010 6:46am)

Wells Fargo is requiring Appraisers to use there Form called Desktop Appraisal to find Value using comps with no Ajustments,Just Show Comps. and sign your Name. This is no more then a revised Broker of Opinion and Does it meet USPAP regulations for appraisers ???

APRZAL: (February 18, 2010 6:40am)

I agree that appraisers need to ban together. I received an order last week for a fee that was less than indicated in the purchase contract. I DECLINED IT. I am sure some other appraiser was happy to do it for the lesser fee. That is the problem.

Frank: (February 18, 2010 6:38am)

Enjoy the show - the customer survey they won was for their banking side... you know, savings, checking and stuff like that. we have fun poking fun, because seriously.... have you ever banked with any of them, they always seem to treat me like a number in a crowd. I only bank with local banks and credit unions from now on.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 6:37am)

Are any appraisers getting any FHA work since 2/15? I'm really wondering what the amc is paying for those. It's supposed to be the fees that are usual and customary in your area, or what the fees would be without an amc. When FHA states we should be paid what's customary in our area for appraisals - shouldn't that be what the amc's are charging the borrower? Sure seems that "usual and customary" has been established by the amc at $150 over what I usually charge. Thanks for the raise amc, I hope I see it someday soon. BTW, unions are for employees and not the self-employed. Guilds are are the self-employed

davwan: (February 18, 2010 6:33am)

socal appraisers join your brethren of "California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals" as we attend Congressman Brad Shermans town hall meeting Sunday February 21, 2010 2-3:30 pm @ Reseda High School, 18230 Kittridge St. We also encourage appraisers & mortgage professionals across the state don't let these opportunities pass you by, go to the town hall meetings and meet with your representation.

Brett in Colorado: (February 18, 2010 6:30am)

To "I enjoy the show but"....are you a banker or have you been staying in a bunker?

skyrider: (February 18, 2010 6:29am)

I don't believe that would be considered price fixing. AMC's set fee for geograpical areas what would be the difference?

AustinGuy: (February 18, 2010 6:24am)

Why can't I embed your videos. They rule and I want to share, but I don't see the embed code...

gone fishin!: (February 18, 2010 6:21am)

Until the appraisers unite and say no more and get involved with fixing the problem and say no to the half price fees it won't stop. Yes there is always going to be that jake leg appraiser that will set under the shade tree and call "create a comp" to get there forms filled out. My fee for a 2055 or 1004 is base 325.00 same amount of work sometimes more to get info for the 2055. or they can go to JAKE LEG and get a form filled out and sent to them. I would rather do one right for full fee. Than send out two or three pieces of crap for the same amount. I can go fishing the other two days and make the same amount of money. THINK ABOUT IT... get with your fellow appraisers in your areas and set a fee. I know it sounds like price fixing but we have got to do it or our profession is going to suffer even more than it does now.

I enjoy the show, but: (February 18, 2010 6:20am)

I just dont get why you guys keep insulting banks. You lose credibility when you do that. Although they do have issues and have fault in the current mess, they do not share all the blame or even the majority as you have stated in your previous posts. Many of your viewers are employees and originators for those banks including me. One reason why I do not forward your videos to my Realtors and business partners is because of the risk of your negative comments about my employer. Fair critisism is ok and I have no problem with that. But the sarcastic and over the top comments specifically directed at the banks is an issue. I hope you can accept the critisism without attacking me this time as was done last time by Frank. Thanks! I still love the show.

Joe: (February 18, 2010 6:19am)

Forget Georgia, banning of YSP is already a national issue. It is part of the proposed changes to Reg Z and the comment period for that ended December 24th. In addition, 18 Democratic Senators wrote a letter to Ben Bernanke encouraging him to adopt the chages. Scaryu thing is that this is not an issue that is decided in Congress. Bernanke has pure decision making capabilities on this one.

skyrider: (February 18, 2010 6:18am)

FL Appraiser is 100% correct, if we don't band together nothing will get done. I think the way do band together is by forming a union. I don't know if you have seen what alamode put out yesterday, but it shows all fees as a median for each county throughout the united states. These fees are fees paid directly to appraisers without AMC intervention.

Nuke 'em 'til the Glow: (February 18, 2010 6:10am)

Is the Training Included with TBWS Membership?

ILL Appraiser: (February 18, 2010 6:05am)

All of these poorly done appraisals need to be turned into the state licensing boards. This needs to be done by reviewers, realtors, borrowers, and lenders. Up till now, the powers that be think these cheap appraisals are quality work. They are not seeing the appraisals that get dumped in the garbage, only the ones that are loaned upon.

FLAppraiser: (February 18, 2010 5:57am)

PCV Murcor called me an asked for a price for a drive-by appraisal on a waterfront, 3500 sq ft home that was purchased in 06/2008 for 1.3 million. They didnt have a parcel control #, and it appeared to have 2 buildings per the tax rolls. I told them I could do it for $325, the $10 per hour girl said we only pay $150 for these and you would need to have it completed in 72 hours. I said the cheapest I could do this for is $275.....never heard back. I guess some "whore" took it for $150, and I wasted 45 minutes doing pro bono research for them. Something needs to be done or this profession is doomed. BTW you know they charged the homeowner $400 for this.

5pence: (February 18, 2010 5:54am)

Good morning Frank and Brian - good show, as always. Georgia just doesn't seem to get it do they? I wonder who started and backed that stupid legislation? Who's pocket were they in. Fl appraiser - just saying No to amc fees doesn't work. Why? For one thing I've been doing it for a year and so have my appraiser friends. No results. Also, because not only do they have appraisers that need to work at whatever fee they can get to put food on the table, and because there's too many appraisers that would work for even less, and because those that stick to their fees are getting put out of business due to the amc preference of hiring stupid appraisers that have no spine, and because experienced appraisers are the "despised" minority, nothing we do will matter - especially silent protest. The problem with amc's is not the amc, it's appraisers.

Anonymous: (February 18, 2010 5:54am)

Would like to learn more about necessary paper work needed to make transactions go smoothly. thank you diana

Chuck: (February 18, 2010 5:49am)

Me too Joey. lol

Broker in fear of adverse credit: (February 18, 2010 5:29am)

I for one hate Wells fargo/wachovia way more than Chase or other banks. They are destroying a subdivision in Texas by refusing to extend the owners lot loans. Because they were balloon loans, owners are just letting their properties go which is killing values, and hurting everyones credit. We can't even go to other banks to refinance because of the mess they have created. Would love to have a good contact there to help us save this subdivision.

tmfgrp: (February 18, 2010 5:27am)

I'm in Georgia and these smucks are just like the rest of the politicians across the country. They don't give a damn about the consumer as long as the big banks are putting money in their pockets. Big banks are behind the YSP bill as they want us out of business so they have it all. All you appraisers just need to get together and say we aren't doing any appraisals until we get paid. I'll assure you if no appraisals get done over a week or two, people will start paying attention to what's going on. It won't take long for you guys to start making the $ you deserve.

clulessdad: (February 18, 2010 5:18am)

Just to add on the SRP vs YSP issue, the SRP noted on the rate sheet is 2 points! That is not a trivial amount. Separate it out, reduce the admin fees by reducing the SRP and walla, we can compete with the banks. Create the wholesale model to really compete with the banks. They can never win with their huge overheads.

FL appraiser: (February 18, 2010 4:48am)

Apex: I could not agree more. Let's take it a step further and ask the same question of appraisers that accept LOW FEES for appraisals from AMC's. It is way past time for the appraisers in this country to organize (I know I hate the thought of it as well) but, our business has been taken out of our hands and put into the hands of AMC's by the government. THAT IS JUST WRONG. We are independant contractors licensed and regulated by the states we are certified / licensed in, that is enough. Appraisers need to learn what they are worth in the process and NOT let AMC's tell you what you are worth. Learn to say NO!!!!!! Unless I get my full fee. It will catch on if we all do it.

Joey Tavares: (February 18, 2010 4:24am)

Uhm, I like sexy guys...

Apex Appraisals, NC: (February 18, 2010 4:04am)

Wells Fargo has a new product that is menat to replace BPO's (Broker Price Opinions) which are now illegal for Real Estate Brokers to complete. This new product will be completed by an appraiser, and the fee that they will pay is 55.00, minus the 4.00 fee that the appraiser must pay to upload the file in the portal. The net is 51.00. Two issues that are important to consider. 1. Any appraiser who completes one of these is obligated by USPAP to follow all the same steps as a full appraisal. 2. Do you as a consumer or a loan officer want Wells to make decisions on your loans based on an opinion of value that is formed by a person who thinks so little of themselves?

clulessdad: (February 18, 2010 3:55am)

It is time for wholesale lenders to separate the YSP from the SRP, like it used to be for FHA loans. Banks do not have to disclose SRP and neither would the broker. I just saw my first rate sheet that has started the process.

JohnTheHeckler: (February 18, 2010 3:50am)

The Jaw Harp is the key to the universe!

Anonymous: (February 18, 2010 3:01am)

Screw Wells Fargo. They might be nice when you are on time with house payments.. They are nasty and rude when your are more than 3 days late. LOL