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App: (November 22, 2009 12:18pm)

Yeah Free Enterprise, I'm there with you. They can't do it to realtors because they have a guild. There is a guild appraisers can join so we can enjoy the same right and freedoms that realtors enjoy. It's the American Guild of Appraisers. I think they're our best shot. Unions won't work as there has to be a physical line to cross to call a strike. The amc model is rewarding the same kind of crooks they are by hiring cheapest and fastest above quality and experience. That is fraud and against nature. De-evolution of the natural course of events where the strongest and fittest survive and prosper. They are not only illegal but a crime against nature. Their take is that all appraisals are the same (of course they are if you use the bottom of the barrel) and for that deserves commodity pricing. How does it feel to be treated like a commodity after years of independence as an appraiser. Awful. Appraisal fraud is up 100% when the amc's choose by fees and not experience or even location.

Free Enterprise: (November 22, 2009 10:42am)

The real issue is this. What if the government decided to pass a law that excluded Realtors from having direct contact with home buyers, brokers and lenders? What if they had to join a Realtor Management Company? What if they no longer could specify their own commissions? What if the Realtor management company charged a fee but paid the Realtor a small percentage? This work model is what appraisers now have to deal with. There is more protection overall for the lender, Broker, Realtor, homeowner and home buyer if the appraiser is completely independent. Just like a Realtor, an appraiser needs to be able to freely seek out work, charge his/her owns fees and accept work as they can get it. The general population can decide whether they want to work with a specific appraiser. As an appraiser, I am officially going out of business and will be by Jan 31st, 2010. My former brokers have been bought out by UBS and Wells Fargo. I am signed up with 4 AMC's with no work sent to me. No more AMC.

brian tbws: (November 22, 2009 9:41am)

Hey everyone, Sunday Morning & working on tomorrows daily. Just wanted to say thanks for all your support. We're working on a rebuttal to HVCC that will put the atonomy and complete fee back in the appraisers pocket so they can focus on complete and honest appraisals and NOT the puppy mill products that amc's are causing.

Starving Appraiser: (November 21, 2009 1:34pm)

277 POST - GEEZ, No tIme to read them all so I may repeat something ..... FIRST - BIG THANK YOU TBWS for all you've done for the industry & to all that could be in NY as support. SECOND - VA system does work great, but currently AL&CB is investigating the self proclaimed software cos (like Ellie Mae & AMSA) to determine if they are operating as an AMC, waiting for the outcome on that. THIRD - lenders should have AMDs-Apprsl Mngmnt Depts, staffed by salaried admin not connected with the loan dept. Several lenders I know are doing this and have been declared as "HVCC compliant" by AL&CB. It's working here and there's no 3rd party mid-man to deplete any ones income or profits. FOURTH - THANKS AGAIN!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK & LET US KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO TO ASSIST!!!

App: (November 20, 2009 9:04pm)

I need to correct one thing and then I'm done lol. And the gap between the rich and the poor slowly evolves into a chasm. **I'm guessing CNBC didn't cover the Cuomo's office visit because they don't allow cameras there? Still, nice job.

App: (November 20, 2009 9:01pm)

If they had let the market work it out on it's own, prices would have dropped to the point where all those vacant houses, ie... toxic assets, could have been affordable to almost any wage earner. But nooooooooooo. Vote them all out imo.

App: (November 20, 2009 8:56pm)

The source being the money pit we're surrounded by. During the depression prices dropped 30-40%. Why hasn't that happened? Prices have remained up and still rise. Why? My guess is supporting a hi-life life style and it isn't ours. And the gap between the rich and the poor becomes a chasm..

App: (November 20, 2009 8:53pm)

You got to ask yourself, why was ANYBODY enabled to take advantage of the system. Look to the source. Appraisers have neither the funds nor the will to be enablers. They can't even organize to save their own profession. Says a lot ehhh?

App: (November 20, 2009 8:28pm)

@ Matt: you talk about appraisers enabling mortgage fraud. Since you're an appraiser you should know we don't make the market, we only observe and report it. If some crook at the banksters cartel was enabled it's because they wanted to be and more, insisted on it. I repeat, when appraisers can tell the banks who to loan money to then and only then can we be blamed. It's all on the banks to use our data to measure their risk and they didn't care because they knew they were going to be bailed out. Enabling is the wrong word - being unknowing accomplises, maybe. We only observe and report the market. If coercion was involved it's still on the banks to measure their risk. They didn't let a simple thing like risk get in the way of making profits as they had and have a guarantee of support from Bubble Ben and Geithner - throw in Dodd and Franks. They're pushing too hard on us imo and we shouldn't be gullible sheeple about it.

Jhenia: (November 20, 2009 6:31pm)

Frank....you've come a long way from Green Valley Mortgage. You rock! Congratulations for all the hard work

Dan: (November 20, 2009 6:27pm)

Even better to use his tactic of threatening a suit unless he revises the HVCC immediately to take into consideration the needs of all parties and not just the needs of his AMC buddies. That suit would be for billions. The difference between the $475 an AMC charges a homeowner and the $250 they pay the appraiser is $225 per appraisal of money stolen from the appraiser time how many thousands of appraisal fees?? Notice the speed at which new AMC's are sprouting up? Rediculuous! The whole idea of brokering the appraisal AND THE FEE by anyone who is not actually doing the appraisal has to go before we have a giant multilevel marketing like scheme going and all the appraisers are slaves and quit. So we threaten to sue them and they open up a new comment period and we appraisers all get together and hire the best lawyers to represent us by stamping some sense into Coumo's forehead and modifying the HVCC as soon as the new and better system is ready to be implemented.

Dan: (November 20, 2009 6:19pm)

I would like to see a class action suit of appraisers against all 4 of the parties to the HVCC for treble damages on the total amount of money that was transferred from appraisers to AMC's over the course of the agreement...for their violation of the administrative procedures act and granting of pricing power for the entire appraisal industry and the ability to steal all the margins from the appraisal fee and hide it from the consumers, to unlicensed and unregulated AMC's...I would like to see the GSE's, FHFA and Cuomo personally take financial responsibility for their narrow minded actions...additionally a new comment period needs to be opened for a revision of the system top to bottom USPAP inclusive to allow for portability by the homeowner being a co-client receiving a copy, the appraiser to quote fees and turntimes, collect money from the borrowers at the time of inspection, and for the AMC's to only be able to charge their lender client an AMC fee, no AMC's collecting appl. fees

Ian Coates: (November 20, 2009 6:02pm)

This is just another small but significant battle in the fight against the HVCC. We have many more to go, so don't give up! TBWS did a great job with this! The fact that Cuomo's office conceded that there are problems with the HVCC is huge!!! We might still be pushing the HVCC up to the summit, but once consumers understand what is going on, that snowball will go over the top and get bigger and bigger. Keep up the good fight and contact your Congressmen!!!!

CornerstoneKathy: (November 20, 2009 4:34pm)

Clueless and Finance..You make a funny point..if they were going to use tax assessments I think that would put an end to the tax appeal process except in a few cases of people who plan to keep a house. People would want BIG assessments ..easier to sell a house or refinance. Also in my opinion FHA HVCC is almost worse because now an LO can NEVER speak to the appraiser ..only the DE underwriter..Hey Brian and Frank it was great meeting you!! That cab ride tape had us all cracking up! I hope you got home safe to some warmer weather but you always have some friends on the east coast anytime you get in the mood for another dirty water dog or road side knish.

clulessdad: (November 20, 2009 3:35pm)

FinanceLogic-the stupid thing about low ball appraisals on refis here in CA is the homeowners ability to take the value straight to the assessor's office and get their property taxes lowered. Now the taxpayer has a double whammy. Less tax revenue for our schools and the tax burden that we will give our grandkids, or my great grandkids

Valuequestor: (November 20, 2009 3:14pm)

POSITIVE STEPS: 1.) Appraisers need to organize. I've been looking at REAA here in California. They seem to be a good model. Monthly meetings with a relevant speaker & some CE invloved. They are growing quickly and are new without the baggage of the old guard groups. They stick with current issues group support and contact with Sacramento. Google them and check them out. Comment here with your impressions. If you know of a better organization, please keep talking about it til people listen. 2.) As St.Pauly Girl and others have stated, contact your state and federal reps. and let them know whats going on. They at least monitor the level of interest on current issues. Numbers count! 3.) Contact local and national media and keep our story in the news. The more print, voice and video coverage we get the sooner the public becomes aware of the great SCAM the big banks are pulling on them. We need to make the general public as angry about this as we are.(Aim High). Keep moving forward.

FinanceLogic: (November 20, 2009 3:08pm)

I lost another loan today due to a low-balled HVCC appraised value. Here's an idea, if HVCC doesn't go away, and QUICK, then maybe for a refi the value used for loan qualifying should be the appraised value OR the county's tax assessed value, whichever is HIGHER. Wouldn't that be more fair to the homeowner!?!?

App: (November 20, 2009 2:48pm)

Get out as in - creating asset bubbles and allowing illegal activities to dictate their policies - against the Constitution that ensures our freedoms from illegal gov activites. The banksters are telling the government what to do. Sad state of affairs when the bad guys win

App: (November 20, 2009 2:43pm)

They think it's their God given right to rip us off and they're using an illegal policy to do it. This is just unbelievable that the government doesn't care - and it's our money they're using to screw us. I regret voting for Obama now, I never suspected he's put in Geithner. Government needs to get out of the mortgage business !

clulessdad: (November 20, 2009 2:09pm)

Wells Fargo will be doing FHA appraisals EXACTLY like conventional New Appraisal Process for FHA Loans Effective Jan. 1, 2010 What’s happening Jan. 1? Mortgagee Letter 2009-28 and 2009-29 provide direction that, effective for case numbers assigned on and after Jan 1, 2010, lenders are required to order the appraisal in compliance with the requirements released by FHA. In preparation for this requirement, Wells Fargo Wholesale Lending will continue to work with RESDirect, to manage the appraisal order and delivery process. The banks are getting greedier and greedier.

Hawaiian: (November 20, 2009 2:05pm)

Hey Guys, Wasn't our point to allow communication between Loan Officers/Brokers and appraisers? You guys had some pretty pasionate speaches regarding the right of the originator to shop for the most favorable appraisal opinion out there, and that it was the job of a colateral review department to verify the validity of the appraisal. Sounds like you guys are doing a 180. What gives?

clulessdad: (November 20, 2009 12:19pm)

twomints-it is all what you said. As I said before, with this Act, which is only applicable to NY State and has far reaching tentacles, there are 4 branches of government now, the Administrative, the Legislative, the Judicial, and the AG of NY. I wish I would have learned that in Civics class, or maybe I was aslep that day.

Gregg: (November 20, 2009 11:14am)

Great job to Frank, Brian, Mark and all involved. Changing gears a bit, anyone heard anything on YSP?

twomintsinone: (November 20, 2009 10:53am)

Hey-who knows about the MARTIN ACT of 1921?? TONY IN HAWAII can you plz ask your lawyer friend at dinner?Evidently it is an obscure authority that the NY AG has that was implemented in 1921...Bascically it allows NYAG to call in any wall street biz -ask questions, hand down judgements (I understood w/out attorney present?) there by giving settlements that have been secured not only pre-judgment, but pre-filing (no 5th rights).I hear this is how the initial meeting went with Fan/Fred/Wmu???So..that is how Cuomo pulled off turning this into a NATIONAL policy.Dusted off in 1970 and then again under Spritzer (enron anyone).http://www.clm.com/pubs/2-28-03mctamaney.lb. I am not a lawyer-only Realtor + Originator in my humble world...but- looks like lots of questionable power used by NYAG- noted by many more powerful entities (SEC).Worth checking into.Frank and Brian have you?

App: (November 20, 2009 9:53am)

amc's are trusted by the consumer to work in the consumers best interest. This is not true when the amc interest comes first - as it always does. Appraisal fraud is up 100% when cheapest and fastest, with no regard for experience and quality, are the ones hired first. See, I can do sensationlisms too lol. And I have a very valid point - much more so than AVM comparisons to detect fraud, what a joke. As if AVM's are the gold standard by which to measure appraiser experience and quality. OMG am I here all alone?!! lol

generaljean (appraiser): (November 20, 2009 9:49am)

I agree with APP's post below completely. If I remember correctly, wasn't the HVCC born out of the eAppraiseIT problem with Cuomo's office and didn't eAppraiseIT (an AMC) participate in the writing of the HVCC. Surprisingly, it favors the AMCs!!! OMG! can you image that????

App: (November 20, 2009 9:01am)

Fraud starts at origination. With the amc's taking up to 70% of the fee unbeknownst to the consumer in a bait and switch type tactic, the consumer is not getting what they're paying for in experience and quality. Therefore, due to amc's, appraiser and appraisal fraud is up 100%

App: (November 20, 2009 8:51am)

I think appraisal fraud was driven by the banks picking the whimpiest appraisers that will work cheap and bend to whatever value they want. Hey, wait a minute, doesn't that describe the amc model to a T? Of course it does. The HVCC was born of fraud and the "new" amc model is the child of this incestuous relationship between the banks and the amc. IMO, since amc's are doing all the choosing of cheapest and fastest appraisers, appraisal fraud is up 100%.

Owl Tree: (November 20, 2009 8:38am)

One of the biggest issues with HVCC is the fact that the broker and customer have zero control over which AMC is used. Again, I'd prefer to run my business myself, including the selection of the appraiser, which I view as a vital subcontractor. Not being able to choose the appraiser is like not being able to choose the lender, or the title company...it makes zero sense in a free market. Again, in a perfect world, brokers get back the ability to refer business to reputable local appraisers. But if that doesn't come back, an alternative would be for local appraisers to band together to form their own AMC partnerships, and retain some control over their work.

App: (November 20, 2009 8:13am)

As soon as the HVCC was drawn up by Cuomo and thugs it was antiquated. It addressed situations that are not the problem - as we now know. It was ill-conceived before the melt-down and is not relevant now and does not address anything in the mortgage industry but appraisers and brokers while the bigger problems remain and have actually increased. Sunset the HVCC now.

St Pauly Girl: (November 20, 2009 4:36am)

Again - Thank you Frank & Brian for your actions and attention in getting HVCC horrors recognized and some opportunity for resolution. We are all to blame for our complacency in our industry- which allowed this horrific situation to occur. How many of you can say, until recently that you ever participated in getting your word out to lawmakers? (I'm guilty of this- and when I began voicing concerns/suggestions for our industry, I'v been surprised by the positive feedback of local reps). They need us to help them re-write & make legislation appropriate. It would be really nice to see some posting from all of us daily that states what did you do today to help end HVCC/YSP removal/disclosure transparency for all originators. Make the time in your day to speak out. Too much complaining & not enough action from us. WE CAN CORRECT THESE PROBLEMS.

St Pauly Girl: (November 20, 2009 4:30am)

Again - Thank you Frank & Brian for your actions and attention in getting HVCC horrors recognized and some opportunity for resolution. We are all to blame for our complacency in our industry- which allowed this horrific situation to occur. How many of you can say, until recently that you ever participated in getting your word out to lawmakers? (I'm guilty of this- and when I began voicing concerns/suggestions for our industry, I'v been surprised by the positive feedback of local reps). They need us to help them re-write & make legislation appropriate. It would be really nice to see some posting from all of us daily that states what did you do today to help end HVCC/YSP removal/disclosure transparency for all originators. Make the time in your day to speak out. Too much complaining & not enough action from us. WE CAN CORRECT THESE PROBLEMS.

St Pauly Girl: (November 20, 2009 4:29am)

Again - Thank you Frank & Brian for your actions and attention in getting HVCC horrors recognized and some opportunity for resolution. We are all to blame for our complacency in our industry- which allowed this horrific situation to occur. How many of you can say, until recently that you ever participated in getting your word out to lawmakers? (I'm guilty of this- and when I began voicing concerns/suggestions for our industry, I'v been surprised by the positive feedback of local reps). They need us to help them re-write & make legislation appropriate. It would be really nice to see some posting from all of us daily that states what did you do today to help end HVCC/YSP removal/disclosure transparency for all originators. Make the time in your day to speak out. Too much complaining & not enough action from us. WE CAN CORRECT THESE PROBLEMS.

joecolorado: (November 20, 2009 4:13am)

Boy THAT was a load of C**p...Thaks to Brain and Frank for busting a gut to do what we all are thankful for,yu guys are the absolute best. Thank you. Perhaps we need to get back to the situation where we just say no.

joecolorado: (November 20, 2009 4:07am)

anonymous- I am probably wrong but REALLY.... do you think for one second that there was going to be ANY co-operation from Cuomo.....give me a break.I am soooo cynical about this situation and hate being the downer here, but,they didnt get to meet him which showed his contempt for the situation,there never WAS going to be a face to face meeting with Cuomo,I am sad to say this but he doesnt talk to people at our level, we are not significant enough to be able to do anything for him in his asperations...we are not even from his constituency and the chances of a National conscious U turn,where big banks are now raking in more money due to his machinations are pretty slim,so the dress code is pretty much irrelevant in the situation.In any event I havent seen ANY appraisers wearing anything remotely resembling a suit.We are working people in a service industry and we should not be ashamed of the clothes we wear doing that work as its representative of our particular type of job.

ameriworks: (November 20, 2009 2:18am)

Can somebody please tell me why it takes an act of Congress to eliminate the HVCC when it didn't take an act of Congress to institute it? How can 1 attorney general wreak such havoc on the mortgage, real estate, and appraisal industries, as well as all consumers, because he just wanted to? How dumb is that? Essentially, he rewarded all of the banks for the very same reason he filed a suit against WAMU in NY--putting pressure on appraisers to "puff" values so the banks can do bigger loan amounts. If Cuomo actually thinks that the AMC appraisers are impervious to pressure from the banks, that from what I've researched own most of the AMCs, he must be smoking some funny stuff! What an idiot. All he's trying to do is make a name for himself, so he can feather his own nest. I wonder what he would be doing with his life if his daddy wasn't Mario Cuomo.

Appraiser661: (November 20, 2009 1:14am)

And Banks should not own their own AMC's...Not that its a conflict of interest or anything...geez...

Matt: (November 20, 2009 12:06am)

Have been a Realtor 36 years, mortgage broker 3 and a certified Appraiser too 1991. Mortgage fraud is enabled by Appraisal fraud. Appraisal fraud is driven by blackmail. Without a supporting appraisal it’s a lot harder to commit mortgage fraud. The existing laws that prohibit lender pressure on appraisers are just ignored. HVCC has a reporting process for lenders who violate but the mechanism to report offenders is not yet in place. Another example of ignored!! Is there a message here? AMCs are pressuring some of my colleagues to meet loan values or will not be paid. Here's another law: "It shall be a fraud, punishable by five years in prison and a $10,000 fine for a value, including range of value, to be communicated to a client (including 3rd parties) in any manner before the fee for the appraisal has been paid in full and the instrument of conveyance cleared the issuing institution." Onus on the appraiser!! Makes it a lot easier for us appraisers to "Just say no"!

GArrowood: (November 19, 2009 8:31pm)

Nice job guys. You rock for organizing this - and especially making the trip to deliver in person. Thanks for speaking for all of us in the industry.

App: (November 19, 2009 8:02pm)

Before I sign off I wanted to thank you 2 again and everyone that showed up to help. You guys are a class act. 2 mortgage guys standing up for everyone in related professions that seems to have a hard time getting together to do the right thing themselves. Appraisers, loan officers, brokers, bankers, consumers and everyone this fowl HVCC agreement has affected. My hat's off to you guys. You put your money where your mouth is and you followed through. Kudos. Next stop, sunset the HVCC !

Ezradams: (November 19, 2009 8:00pm)

All, I was there in NY and can tell you that after the meeting Frank, Brian, and Mark were all upbeat. Thanks to all three for their hard work! It's time to start working together and make changes to the HVCC. We can start by negotiating for additional appraiser independence (allowing COD again), reasonable fees (discussed at the meeting), portability, ending bank ownership of the AMC's, etc. If enough changes are made, the HVCC will be manageable. I guarantee, that if we're not reasonable, we will lose this fight. Let's start with the little battles and work our way up. dan@appraising.biz

Dan: (November 19, 2009 7:32pm)

Hey...I know someone who wants to create jobs...Obama could amend the HVCC with a penstroke and create mortgage broker and appraiser jobs...if we created the solution and showed him how to do it. He might even save a few jobs too....LOL.

Builder/Appraisers Husband(GA): (November 19, 2009 7:13pm)

CV Broker: I think that your idea of a lobbyist makes a lot of sense. Like a lot of small business owners, we may be too involved in the day to day details to see the big picture. As bad as it sounds, we may need someone on our side who is not afraid to get a little dirty in order to get what their client wants. We are trying to influence politicians the same way that we would influence someone that we are involved in a business relationship with. We need someone who understands the motivations of politicians and how to exploit those motivations.

Anonymous: (November 19, 2009 7:04pm)

Dan, you are the man! You and Mortgage Blues have said it best. The industry would be better served by taking your advise and listening to more "seasoned" wisdom.

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 6:54pm)

My last post for the day... Mortgage brokers have been bashed for being a bunch of selfish bastards. It's up to us to change that perception, and what happened today is a step in the right direction. Taking a constructive and mature approach to improve HVCC makes sense. Sure, we all hope it get's tossed out....but there are certainly ways to address quality, cost, and communication that could solve 99% of the problems. If anything, Cuomo's people hopefully came away with a better understanding of the people that work in this industry. Again, nice job guys.

twomintsinone: (November 19, 2009 6:50pm)

Dan- you are after my heart-!!!

Dan: (November 19, 2009 6:48pm)

I repeat, the appraisal price, turntime required, scope of work, payment collection, and payment terms need to be the job of the professional appraiser once again and the AMC's need to charge their only clients, the lenders, for their services. This lowers the price of the appraisal to consumers. It still keeps the insulator AMC's in the loop, but removes the collection of the APPRAISER'S MONEY and their ability to borrow ALL of it interest free for 30-60 days and play the float, as it should be. Payment should be required to be made ONLY directly to the appraiser that IS DOING THE WORK for the homeowner at the time of the inspection. AMC's should not be able to collect an "appraisal fee", but only an AMC fee and only from the lender who hired them. Also, here is the solution to portability, since the borrower paid for the appraisal, they become a co-client and are entitled to a copy that they can take anywhere. The borrower could have the appraiser put it into any new lenders name

twomintsinone: (November 19, 2009 6:48pm)

Thank you Frank and Brian you care, your actions prove it and it shows.Will have to hear what you say in the AM regarding solutions? Mrtg Blues and so many others-I am with you on this one. AWAY WITH HVCC-before it tangles its web any further or... it will be to late-(

caappr: (November 19, 2009 6:48pm)

I agree completely with Mortgage Blues. He is dead on. We absolutely should have contact with the lender. The laws in place should be enforced. Not a better HVCC, NO HVCC. Your efforts are noble,but probably not that effective. We need our power back.

Dan: (November 19, 2009 6:39pm)

I would love to ask Cuomo personally this: "So let me get this straight...you went into a meeting charging WAMU and eAppraiseIT with fraudulent activities, rigging the system, etc. So how much did it cost them and how are they paying you off so that you exited that meeting by giving all AMC's, unregulated and unlicensed entities that could be started legally by convicted felons, the power to collect ALL of the industry's funds from consumers and control the price levels, turn times, and payment terms for all appraisers in the country while simultaneously putting most mortgage brokers out of business by your inconsiderate HVCC agreement that lines the pockets of the title companies and banks that own AMC's at the expense of all others in the process? Why don't you do a quick ammendment to the HVCC that states that the appraiser must quote and collect the appraisal fee and state the required turn time to the AMC after discussing the property with the borrower? AMCs must bill the lenders.

MortgageBlues: (November 19, 2009 6:32pm)

Hey Guys, I really do appreciate all your hard work and effort in fighting against HVCC. But, please do not be mislead, Cuomo is only interested in appeasing you when he says he wants input on how to make HVCC better. I signed a petition to eliminate HVCC not a petition to help Cuomo make it better. Please do not settle for anything less than completely eliminating HVCC. There is no real evidence that fraud will be committed if loan officers and appraisers are able to talk to each other once again. I do not want someone else deciding which appraiser I can or cannot use. My clients deserve the highest quality appraisal from the best qualified appraisers. HVCC is a dysfunctional system where the worst appraisers can and often do reap greater rewards than the more experienced and better qualified appraisers. Millions of home owners and buyers along with appraisers, loan officers and real estate agents will continue to suffer the unfortunate consequences of this failed appraisal ordering system as long as it continues to exist. If states would simply focus on enforcing the laws already on their books we should be able to completely eliminate HVCC altogether.

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 6:24pm)

Frank and Brian - great job, guys. I for one appreciate the time and energy that you put into this effort to improve our industry.

Michigan Mark: (November 19, 2009 6:22pm)

Frank, Thank god we have people like you to actually stand up and do something and not just sit around on their asses and complain. Great job!!!

Frank@TBWS: (November 19, 2009 6:14pm)

HVCC is Lipstick on a Pig: I'm sorry you feel that way but you're wrong. Something did happen. Cuomo's office admitted there are problems, which they really haven't done before. And they would like to find a solution. They truly seemed genuine, and I'm going to go with the belief that they are. We intend to "burn the candle at both ends". Through Congress and through continued meetings with the NY AG. At some point we'll either get a solution through Cuomo or get it dropped completely through legislation.

Frank@TBWS: (November 19, 2009 6:07pm)

Brian and I intentionally went in with T-Shirts. Why? We got lot's of looks and attention. When in Cuomos we told them the reason we were wearing them is because they represented the 100k+ signatures that were delivered to their office. Trust me, we had a very meaningful conversation with them. I don't feel they were just placating us at all, and they are open to us coming back to work on a solution, which we are going to do. I don't care what anyone may say about our meeting with them, or what they may think. I was there. I know what happened and I know we will be back. We are working to make a change and we will take advantage of the opportunity that was offered to us.

DAG: (November 19, 2009 6:05pm)

This may be one of the better posts today. Several had the right points: (1) HVCC needs to go away (2) we need a open thread of communication between all parties (3) too many appaisers and brokers are sitting in the bankruptcy or foreclosure line. HVCC is a disaster, the lender is the one who ultimately needs to decide how they want appraisals coming to them. If I order my appraisal from a tenured, licensed appraiser, where is the problem? Lenders need to do research on the brokers they sign up. All of my appraisals now are being done by either very lazy, ignorant or uneducated appraisers. They don't know my lenders, my lenders do not know them, ergo every loan takes 4 weeks plus to get the appraisal issued resolved. And lastly, it is about the consumer, but you know what guys, I'm an experienced, educated, fully licensed broker who is going down the tubes very shortly if I cannot begin to get some loans closed.It is about me too.

appraiser on board: (November 19, 2009 6:02pm)

A Union WOULD work NOW. Every appraiser needs to be contacted directly. I am sure 9 out of 10 appraisers would be on board to re organize. Its a new day. All appraiser info is available through the State. We need a leader. Where do we start. Meet with Mr. Miller? I would love to speak with him in person. What to do?

HVCC is Lipstick on a Pig: (November 19, 2009 5:55pm)

WOW, Nothing really happen. What are we gonna do now. When is the next banking hearing, take the petition there. These petition should be respected. We need the tea baggers on board they do get some attention, we need to contact Sarah Palin and put some lipstick on this petition drive maybe Coumo will meet and speak with her. I really thought this was gonna be bigger than this. The recession is not over for the Independent entreprenuers.

Bowen Bay Homes: (November 19, 2009 5:49pm)

I am so proud of you guys

Michigan Mark: (November 19, 2009 5:45pm)

The blatent problem with HVCC is the misrepresentation of current market value on appraisals through this system. Why is it considered fraud if an appraiser mis-represents a value (on the high side) with material innaccuracies but it's not if the mis-representation brings the value in low? These current HVCC appraisals are FULL of FRAUD, mis representations, incompetentence overbilling and your damn right a class action lawsuit is in order. Tens of thousands of innocent consumers are victims of this horrible legislation and as stated previously stated the amc's are the only winners. Somebody must be held accountable for this injustice. I would also volunteer to assist in organizing a suite. God bless you all!

Anonymous: (November 19, 2009 5:27pm)

joecolorado You are wrong. I have been an elected official and a couple of yahoos from the sticks in t-shirts would not be considered the ambassadors for a national problem in my mind. They were given an hour to placate them. There will never be any co-operation from the Cuomo office.

joecolorado: (November 19, 2009 5:14pm)

The perception that a suit makes a difference is a fallacy.Cuomo wears a suit,but he has still singlehandedly screwed up the entire system.I'm just Real glad that Frank and Brian took it on themselves to present overwhelming evidence to Cuomo that there are at least 150K people out here that are not pleased with him or his actions....I couldn't have done what Frank and Brian did and I am glad at least someone out there is trying in a positive way to help us all. They could have been wearing diapers as far as I am concerned,its going to be interesting to see the response from Cuomo.If any.I expect there will be none,but that is not the point. In a voting situation it gives his opposition something to fire at him to swing the vote their way.Hopefully there is enough mud in those boxes to cause Cuomo to rethink this stupid policy. ......have a good night everybody.

marnold2000: (November 19, 2009 5:02pm)

App, i am a former appraiser. my first job out of college was with the dallas central appraisal district as an ad valorem appraiser. i then went to work for PHH Homequity as a review appraiser. i ran great western banks REO department in texas and oklahoma. i have owned a consulting company doing commercial appraisals and now own a mortgage company. i know appraisal inside and out, my point is that showing 90% of all refinance appraisals coming in low is way more powerful than saying 67% of purchase ones are low but 1/3 of them are coming in at value or higher than value. which one makes a bigger impact on you? i also can't believe these guys didn't even wear a suit. i knew they wouldn't, looks amateurish.

Prospective Home Buyer: (November 19, 2009 4:40pm)

I understand why they want the separation between lenders and appraisers but don't real estate agents want deals to close as well. It looks like they are the ones with the appraiser contact now and what's to say they don't "lead" the appraiser into the "needed" values.

Dannyc333: (November 19, 2009 4:33pm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Cuomo To fight this you need to be as up to date on the history of the events to start you should all go to this website link posted above. This will bring you up to speed on Cumo. There is a very interesting paragraph about half way down. I think you will all know what I am talking about once you read it, I am surprised it is not brought up more. There is also a very brief history of the HVCC. I am ready to get started ILL Appraiser, email me if you like and maybe we can get others on board. It has been my experience that trying to get appraisers to organize is like pulling teeth from a wild boar, I have tried for years!

Anonymous: (November 19, 2009 3:58pm)

To Fedup with Cuomo. I really doubt that any appraiser or mortgage person is intending to vote for Cuomo. For those of us with the ability to make his life a living XXXX we plan or at least I plan on doing it. Im actually thinking of painting a car of mine and using every day something ANTI cuomo. Call it a public service announcement as that is not a violation in New York as long as it written some place on the message. The fact is though he has no right to sit in the Governors chair based not only HVCC but many other items that he is done to get his mug on the News.

App: (November 19, 2009 3:54pm)

A petition was submitted to New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo yesterday asking that the Home Valuation Code of Conduct be eliminated. This new law has dramatically changed the way appraisals are ordered. Many believe, myself included, that is has gone too far & has negatively impacted the consumer. First, it has increased the cost of appraisals because some appraisers must work through a middleman, Appraisal Management Companies. Instead of the appraiser earning the entire fee for performing the appraisal, they must split the fee with the AMC thus the increased price for appraisals. Next, it has extended the time period for closing. With the start of HVCC, I have seen the time from ordering an appraisal to the report being submitted extend by well over a week. This delay in getting the appraisal has led to some locks expiring or closing dates missed causing the homeowner additional fees. Finally, since appraisers.... http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/consumer_rates/119885.aspx

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 3:52pm)

You gotta read this article "FHA, Prime Mortgage Defaults at Records on Job Losses (Update1)" http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=apOfNyUT0FGE&pos=4 So much for appraiser and broker coercing the value. The problem is not HVCC, or the housing market. The problem was, is and always be about jobs. And 60% of jobs come from small business, like independent appraisers and brokers. Maybe someone will actually face this fact someday. But as long as our government resides on Wall Street, we have real serious problems.

ILL Appraiser: (November 19, 2009 3:29pm)

Let's go folks. Media and court blitz. Tony in Hawaii can get a class action started. Danny333 can check out what it would take to start the media blitz in all metro cities and report back. All AI members can get the lobbyists moving, and we all can continue to contact our congresspersons. Everyone is fired up. Let's not waste the energy on spouting words. Let's use the energy for fighting and getting back the mortgage industry for "we the people".

Lender / Realtor: (November 19, 2009 3:23pm)

I just think if these same politicians we have today, who have their hand out to every lobbyist, were representing the States back in the 1770's; we would still be singing "God Save the Queen". The King would have just bought them all off.

Lender / Realtor: (November 19, 2009 3:17pm)

No Spin: Just the Facts is 100% correct. Cuomo lives in one of the largest banking centers in the world. My guess is that he must have been spun on how only running loans through an AMC is ideal for max integrity; by the same banks that are benefiting from this. By spun I mean spun the wheel of fortune to enact HVCC and get paid by those same banks. In living in a world as idealistic as Cuomo, I propose the following change: Lets vote on our state ballots to make it illegal for a politician, or politician's family member, to receive money, perks, insider information, or other benefit from any lobbyist, company, or organization. Call it The Political Racketeering and Insider Trading Law and make it a Federal Crime. With this a governor’s wife/husband can no longer be made a Partner in a law firm; a Senator/Congressman's wife/husband can no longer set up Campaign HQ in a building owned by a spouse, and any politician can't own stock in company XYZ & cause policy to benefit XYZ.

Fedup with Cuomo: (November 19, 2009 2:57pm)

The sure way to let Cuomo and his people know that we are not happy with HVCC is to get all the New York state appraisers, mortgage brokers, and realtors to make sure to vote against Cuomo on any office he may be considering (ie: Govenor). It is my firm belief that he was worked hand in hand with big banks in order to put the mortgage brokers out of business and fill his campaign war chest. Also, I stronly disagree with the notion that there needs to be a barrier between appraisers, mortgage brokers and processors. The problems are with the type of loan programs that were available (no documentation, no money down, FHA gift program, interest only, stated income loans,etc. There is crime in every industry including governments. To put hundreds of thousands of honest professionals out of business was just plain wrong, if not criminal.It proves my point that it was Cuomo and big banks wanting to increase profits and control of mortgage loans by driving mtg brokers out of business.

Lender / Realtor: (November 19, 2009 2:50pm)

I am still wonder how the decision set by one public official of one state can create change in policy for all other 49 states. That to me is an amazing accomplishment by AG Cuomo. It is even more amazing that the NY AG has been allowed to become the self appointed leader of Lending Policy, & that you have to deliver the petitions to & meet with him. Why not deliver them to Fannie, Freddie, & now HUD? "So He (A Cuomo) does not want there to be a relationship between LO/Borrower & Appraiser." The appraisers that I had worked with had more knowledge and integrity than any of these middlemen AMC's I have been forced to work with, and many of the appraisers they have contracted with.

No Spin: Just the Facts: (November 19, 2009 2:37pm)

Sadly, the lambs walked into the lions den. Cuomo has not presented any factual data (only anecdotal spin) to prove that there was even a need for HVCC. Remember, his lawsuit was against an AMC who he alleged was being pressured by a large bank = the parties that benefit from HVCC. HVCC strictly was a political play by Cuomo. Thus, Cuomo and his players will look you directly in the eye and lie to you. They are not going to admit bad policy was created by Cuomo. Of course,it is the falling home values that is the source of against we are experiencing. They have reviewed HVCC with a fine tooth comb and can NOT find anything wrong with it. Wake up. Cuomo is not changing HVCC.

Dannyc333: (November 19, 2009 2:30pm)

Those words where from AI

nancyv: (November 19, 2009 2:20pm)

Why don't we have a spin the wheel for an appraiser, or bowling for appraisers. You know, like the VA TAS system only with a video game click button. It would be more fun. Gee, if they thought for a minute that the TAS system worked......naaa too easy. Let's complicate it.

qtrhrse: (November 19, 2009 2:09pm)

You guys are unbelievable. Republican party needs people like you to run for office.

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 1:43pm)

dannyc333-were those words from AI, or from Fannie/freddie? AI is on record as defending HVCC, very strong proponent of it.

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 1:39pm)

App-LOL you are right on all counts.

App: (November 19, 2009 1:33pm)

I got it by the way Frank said "Bravo". Nice looking crowd that showed up to help. Sad thing is Cuomo's office still thinks the HVCC is viable and that there needs to be a firewall between the appraiser, broker and loan officer. That just shows how out of touch the Cuomo crew is. Just enforce the damn regulations that are already in place you dumb fks and there would be no need for a firewall. Didn't they read the letter from the 4 banking commissions saying the HVCC was not necessary?!! Besides, how is a firewall between the appraiser and originator going to stop the banks from taking risks in their portfolios??!! It doesn't!! Gawd this thing is so aggravating - arrrgg. They must have all taken the Bush course for graduating from Harvard without studying. Common sense - the appraisers had nothing to do with the meltdown! When appraisers control the banks loaning money, then you can blame us. Till then you idiots, study up on what really happened so you can make sense to Frank & Brian.

Dannyc333: (November 19, 2009 1:27pm)

Just got off the phone with the appraisal institute, they do have lobbyist in place one full time and 6 on retainer. The HVCC does expire in November of 2010. I was told this of course does not mean Freddie or Fannie will not still follow it. One of the other problems is fan and fred are still going off numbers from when loan officers where jacking appraisals, there words. They are not willing to look at new data since HVCC went into effect. The institute not on the record said a media blitz maybe the answer to helping change this rushed policy. It would have to come from us, the appraisers and brokers themselves. Everyone needs to keep pushing there congressmen and women on this issue and bring it to the public. The public sector has no idea of this nor do they know it is also hurting them. Franks face did speak a 1000 words, it went bad!

St Pauly Girl: (November 19, 2009 1:03pm)

@scappraiser- many banks own AMCs thus they don't worry about the kick back deal...CREEPY & SCARY HUH? @besty- yes, I too think Frank looked deflated/dissapointed.

besty: (November 19, 2009 12:53pm)

Is it me or did Frank's expression and comment as he left Cuomo's office speak volumes ... he just seemed deflated.

scappraiser: (November 19, 2009 12:48pm)

Can anyone answer a question that has been on my mind; do AMCs provide a 'kickback' to banks for using their 'service'?

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 12:48pm)

Last-and will shut up. Create a system where brokers are held accountable for their choices. After a certain number of non-defensible appraisals, cut off their broker approval status. That will make them choose high quality appraisers who have access to all the good facts on any appraisal. OK-I am done.

Valuequestor: (November 19, 2009 12:46pm)

If you are going to sue, follow the money. Name the 5 biggest banks as the defendants. Cuomo is a side show. The problem with a class action suit is that few of us will still be in business when its resolved....Its still a good idea. As many of us have been saying for months on this blog, appraisers need to organize. There are many small groups in California, The Appraiser Guild would be one. Another group I'm going to join is REAA. Real Estate Appraisers Association. This group has 3 fully functioning chapters in Northern California. Sacramento, North Bay and East Bay areas with I think more than a couple hundred members. They are pretty new an so don't have lots of "baggage". They were formed as a support group for these tough times, education, promote professionalism and to give appraisers a unified voice in Sacramento. New chapters are being considered in other areas of Cali. This could be a good vehicle for us......or the Guild.....something!!

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 12:39pm)

It would also solve the issue of "why didn't you include this sale"? That is the #1 reason that appraisers get conditions, or the second "provide two more comps." It allows the UW and reviewer to know this is all the sales in a particular period and neighborhood. If they verify that you have included all the sales, what else can you do, make up comps?

Dannyc333: (November 19, 2009 12:36pm)

I think a bigger way to get let Cumo know this is wrong is to pay for air time and run a campaign against him. Nothing speaks louder than bad press. I am sure we can create a fund for ad space, I woudl sure be willing to help fund it. Also this guy is going to try and be my next Gov. He will not bend on this until it starts to hurt him politically. You can send all the signatures you want. I think a real media blitz is the real way to go and a lot cheaper than a lobbyist. HVCC should be stopped and rebuilt the right way not a settlement so Fannie and Freddie can avoid a lawsuit.I am also looking for clarification on the matter of HVCC expiring in 2010, if anyone knows if this is fact please update. If anyone is interested in starting a media blitz against this HVCC please feel free to contact me at dcleary4@twcny.rr.com.

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 12:33pm)

You can even have the broker pay for a 2nd appraisal if the first one is found not defensible. If the 2nd validates the first, let the lender pay for the 2nd.

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 12:30pm)

It also allows anyone to ordr the appraisal. With enough checks in the system, who cares who tells someone anything. You can't prevent it anyway. So assume it happens and deal with it.

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 12:27pm)

Allow all communication between all parties. Have borrower pay appraiser half the appraisal fee at door. ($200) Have broker liable for remainder. Appraisal done with an inclusion of an actual list of sales/per time period/per neighborhood. (Get rid of MC Form) Appraiser would include a short reason for inclusion/exclusion of that sale in his analysis. Validate the opinion of value by reviewing and validating the appraiser’s process not his opinion. UW would ensure that all sales are properly identified thru a 3rd party source. An appraisal reviewer would then review the exclusion reasons, the adjustments, and the reconciliation and provide an opinion that the appraiser has a logical defensible “opinion of value.” If defensible, use the value. If not, make the broker pay back the $200 to the borrower. If it is, let the borrower pay the remainder.

clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 12:25pm)

I am gonna post this idea again. It solves the appraiser independence issue, penalizes brokers who coerce, doesn't hurt the consumer, promotes free communication amongst all parties, eliminates AMC's, gives appraisers more money/appraisal, rewards them with more business with better quality, doesn't violate USPAP, and gives lenders a better sense of the quality of the value

Gregg: (November 19, 2009 12:21pm)

I was wondering why and how Andrew Cuomo, the attorney general of New York, sets appraisal rules for the WHOLE united states?

MortgageBlues: (November 19, 2009 12:18pm)

Being able to discuss a property with the appraiser from the beginning is an important part of my business. I need to know upfront if there are any issues not after the appraisal is already complete. I am not a crook and the appraisers I have been doing business with for past 20+ years are not crooks either. I do not need a wall between me and my appraiser to keep me honest. I want quality appraisals from the best experienced appraisers. HVCC benefits no one but the AMCs. Perhaps a better way to monitor appraisal fraud would be for states to randomly spot check appraisers by asking for copies of appraisals from time to time to see if there is a pattern of overpricing or fraud between that appraiser and a certain mortgage broker. There is no need for HVCC if the laws already on the books would enforced. No mutual agreement to modify or improve HVCC is acceptable. HVCC is completely unnecessary and is always going to do more harm than good no matter what changes are made because it puts third party AMCs seeking only to make their own profit in the driver’s seat.

MortgageBlues: (November 19, 2009 12:18pm)

Being able to discuss a property with the appraiser from the beginning is an important part of my business. I need to know upfront if there are any issues not after the appraisal is already complete. I am not a crook and the appraisers I have been doing business with for past 20+ years are not crooks either. I do not need a wall between me and my appraiser to keep me honest. I want quality appraisals from the best experienced appraisers. HVCC benefits no one but the AMCs. Perhaps a better way to monitor appraisal fraud would be for states to randomly spot check appraisers by asking for copies of appraisals from time to time to see if there is a pattern of overpricing or fraud between that appraiser and a certain mortgage broker. There is no need for HVCC if the laws already on the books would enforced. No mutual agreement to modify or improve HVCC is acceptable. HVCC is completely unnecessary and is always going to do more harm than good no matter what changes are made because it puts third party AMCs seeking only to make their own profit in the driver’s seat.

MortgageBlues: (November 19, 2009 12:17pm)

Being able to discuss a property with the appraiser from the beginning is an important part of my business. I need to know upfront if there are any issues not after the appraisal is already complete. I am not a crook and the appraisers I have been doing business with for past 20+ years are not crooks either. I do not need a wall between me and my appraiser to keep me honest. I want quality appraisals from the best experienced appraisers. HVCC benefits no one but the AMCs. Perhaps a better way to monitor appraisal fraud would be for states to randomly spot check appraisers by asking for copies of appraisals from time to time to see if there is a pattern of overpricing or fraud between that appraiser and a certain mortgage broker. There is no need for HVCC if the laws already on the books would enforced. No mutual agreement to modify or improve HVCC is acceptable. HVCC is completely unnecessary and is always going to do more harm than good no matter what changes are made because it puts third party AMCs seeking only to make their own profit in the driver’s seat.

CV Broker: (November 19, 2009 12:10pm)

Solutions, people, solutions. A class action suit would be years in the making and by that time the AMC's would be even more solidly entrenched in the process. Sadly, after all Frank and Brian's hard work and the efforts of everyone, we got played. If we have to get dirty to get this done, how about hiring a lobbyist who knows their way around the Washington depths of hell? I personally have written to every Senator and Congressman in my district and received lovely, condescending form letters that barely address my HVCC concerns. All platitudes and air. It's WHO you know, folks, and we need someone who knows the right people.

QBsack12: (November 19, 2009 12:09pm)

As posted by other appraisers, I've been appraising for 17 years. I worked my but off to build my business and now it's gone. Twice the work and half the pay. Play games with the AMC's. For the first time in my life I don't seem to have control of my business and it's not the economy it's Washington. Every time I think of what the HVCC has done and Barny Frank is going to do this 43 year old football coach feels like crying.

twomintsinone: (November 19, 2009 11:56am)

I know customers.-as you all do- who have suffered finacially due to this and would want to be "counted in" as well. That is the just of the suit..all that have been affected...........?

Gsays: (November 19, 2009 11:55am)

one of the problems of taking Lo's out of the loop with appraiser's is the work relationship. when I would ask an out of town appraiser for some sort of values range, it normally takes days to even get a reply of "what's the address". when I call my local appraiser's whom I have given a lot of business to over the years, I would get a value range in minutes. when I need an extra comp or fix a typo, done asap with my appraiser's. one I do not have a business realtionship almost always turns into a hassle. the public will never have a continuing business realtionship with appriaser's. if an appraiser commits fraud, take their license, and toss them! if an appraiser is influenced so much by a person and not the comps, they need to lose their license, period!

Mark: (November 19, 2009 11:46am)

Tony in Hawaii has a meeting with an attorney and said he would report back next friday

overitinFL: (November 19, 2009 11:42am)

Golden Eagles, e-homeppraiser, involuntarily retired appraiser and SD Broker are ALL dead on and correct. I've been trying to rally some Brokers for a class action law suit for some time now. This is so unconstitutional!!! What do they want? us all on the streets with tin cups in our hands? If anyone out there is interested in working to get a law suit going count me in.

overitinFL: (November 19, 2009 11:41am)

Golden Eagles, e-homeppraiser, involuntarily retired appraiser and SD Broker are ALL dead on and correct. I've been trying to rally some Brokers for a class action law suit for some time now. This is so unconstitutional!!! What do they want? us all on the streets with tin cups in our hands? If anyone out there is interested in working to get a law suit going count me in.

Mark: (November 19, 2009 11:35am)

Simple Minded - what they will do with that is still turn it on us. With the new GFE, even if the client chooses their own providers, we have to provide them a list. If they choose from the list, we are still accountable for variance. They will do the same with your suggestion - even from the list, it will bite us in the arse

Simple Minded: (November 19, 2009 11:32am)

I am very simplistic in my thinking and have an idea. Since the powers that be want to take the appraisal process out the the LO & Broker areana why don't they let the clients have the choice of there appraisers. Meaning; prior to HVCC the Banks had a list of approved appraisers. Why not make it when the appraisal is due the lender mails the client out this list. The client calls, the appraiser of there choice and the client handles EVERYTHING. The client, LO/Broker and Lender get copies and NO ONE other than the client has made contact. The lender feels comfortable since this is one of there approved appraisers, NO 3rd Party Management Co. to artificially raise prices and the LO/Brokers job just got alittle easier. What do ya think?

po appraiser: (November 19, 2009 11:31am)

Yet another viewpoint - when the AMC orders the report. They provided instructions that can be from 3 to 7 pages. These instructions state what they are to place in the report. Once the report is completed, it is then run through the AMC's "quality control" computer and then is converted into what thype of report they are to deliver. I have seen my reports stripped of information. What I provided in the original report is not what is delivered. What are they doing to my report? Why are they even allowed to extract and redeliver what I have provided?

Mark: (November 19, 2009 11:19am)

http://www.foxbusiness.com/search-results/m/27463034/home-valuation-fraud-s-impact-on-housing.htm#q=home+valuation+code+of+conduct

SDBroker: (November 19, 2009 11:18am)

Investors require appraisal reviews even on HVCC appraisals because the investor cannot guaranty the quality or accuracy of the appraisal. So, there is absolutely no point to HVCC. Since the investor reviews and will adjust any discrepancies accordingly, then HVCC is redundant at best.

Appraiser John: (November 19, 2009 11:11am)

Guys, No one is addressing the influance that the AMCs are exerting on appraisers. I belong to several on-line appraisers forums. Our members are complaining that when they don't hit "the number" with several of the biggest AMCs, they just don't get any more assignments. This is a form of appraiser influeance that isn't being talked about. All the HVCC has done is change the ability to control appraisers from the big-bad mortgage brokers to the AMCs. Appraisers are still being forced to "toe the line" or they go out of business. NOTHING has changed! CA Cert. General Appraiser Diamond Bar, CA

pghmortgagedude: (November 19, 2009 11:09am)

GOOD work guys, but HVCC has not been as (nor will be) as big an issue an NO YSP!!!!!! If you want to think BIG...work small on THAT issue, because hvcc is a drop in the bucket in terms of industry decimation

involuntarily retired appraiser: (November 19, 2009 11:07am)

Frank and Brian, What's happened guys. The barrier is what has caused all the problems. It has created a whole new middle man business. The solution is to go back to where the banks have a review appraisal staff that is separate from the sales division which was pressuring and overuling underwriters when they rejected a loan. Come on Frank, How about we put a barrier between the loan rep sharks, and their clients that got sold option arms when qualified for 30 fixed at a great rate. How would the loan reps like to have to depend on management companies for their business. Why don't you sit around your computer waitng for a loan to come through that never shows up. Thats what us appraisers are up against.

Allison, 30 year appraiser: (November 19, 2009 11:06am)

I sent this link to me@glennbeck elrushbo@eib.net I also wrote and snail mailed Glenn Beck and Charles Paine this week as to the state of affairs. What if you wanted to hire a contractor and new the best local contractor but you had to go to the CMC contractor management company and THEY told you who you will hire? I seems unconstitutional to me.

Toby: (November 19, 2009 11:01am)

Two thumbs up! Great video.

FPF NEW GUY: (November 19, 2009 10:55am)

Rep Miller is one of the all time great men.He is member of my health club and will ALWAYS take time to listen. His office is close to me and I recommend a showing of people from local brokers apps etc would probably be very effective way of getting the message out. A visit during congress recess would be good. Maybe even better than the Cuomo visit . I am sure he would not puss out and duck your visit..You guys are in Fairfield short commute Let me know .... ddavis@ubcap.com ....TBWS

e-homeappraiser: (November 19, 2009 10:52am)

Thanks Frank and Brian for all your efforts. As I stated earlier this week, void the HVCC, ban AMC's and delete the 1004MC. These all add cost to the appraisal and/or reduce the appraisers fee. We don't need any of them. Appraisers need to communicate with clients directly and ethically, with reciprocation from the client. Appraiser 33yrs.

SD_LoanGuy: (November 19, 2009 10:51am)

I have a loan that went into contract on Oct 28th. We ordered title/escrow fees on the same day. We submitted the complete file with correct fees (the day we got them) to avoid MDIA re-disclose flags on Wed the 4th. The loan was approved on Nov 8th, yes a Sunday. Per MDIA we could not order the appraisal until Tuesday the 10th. The appraisal took a week to come back in, which was the 17th. Now the appraisal has to go to LARA review per the investor. The borrower is past the 17 days appraisal contingency. We do not know if the lender’s appraisal review will cut the value so we cannot advise them to remove the contingency. We look so incompetent. This is a Conventional High Balance and on our end, we kicked butt… because of HVCC, we could not pick an appraiser with faster turn times. We are left holding the bag! We got the loan approved 7 working days from when it went into contract! Any thoughts?

Golden Eagles: (November 19, 2009 10:44am)

Tony in Hawaii has the right idea. Hit em where it hurts, in the pocketbook. But don't forget to include an effective public relations firm to let the public know how they are getting screwed. Don't stop there, make it a full employment campaign for class action attorney firms, with MIDA, YSP limits, STEERING our prequalified clients to get prequalified again with the Realtor list of usually 5 big banks, and all their restraint of trade and commerce laws, RICO statues, and Anti-Trust violations.

sus ca appraiser: (November 19, 2009 10:35am)

WOW - so much Positive Discussion today- I'm got good with e/tech - but I think we need to start list(s) with Solutions - Appraisers, LO, MB, etc, we all play a different role in the process & are Experts in our different roles. THE BEST COMMENT/SOLUTION TODAY - Homeowners order the Appraisal as the First Step in the REFI process - Value is now know & then they can start the Loan Shopping.

App: (November 19, 2009 10:25am)

This is good though. One place where appraisers and brokers can get together and actually try to make a change. I don't think that's happened before. Appraisers on their own and brokers on their own haven't seemed to be able to do much. Together could be a whole different story. There's many reasons to thank Frank and Brian imo.

Vacaville Mark: (November 19, 2009 10:21am)

Good try, Frank's face said it all though. Rep Miller is a great way to go. Do you need a show of numbers for Friday? I'm in. As for class action, FPF can take $250 from my next closing to help with the cost.

Ct real estate guy: (November 19, 2009 10:14am)

good work guys, Next time have the papers unboxed and strapped instead of boxed up. I hope that Cuomo sits there and reads all of the pages before sending it to his diesel burning V-8 powerd paper shredder!!!

AllValueSteve: (November 19, 2009 10:12am)

When I started my apprenticeship with a former Citibank appraiser in 1992, he warned me about this and we actually tried to start a Union, backed by AFL-CIO. We had appox 100 appraisers in attendance. It did not go anywhere, no one wanted to pay dues. Well, now who are those "dues" going to? To AMC's and propaganda to our hard earned lender-clients that they MUST use the AMC's! I agree, an Appraisers Union is what is needed NOW. A class action lawsuit is what is needed NOW. They both can be accomplished by coordinating with the splintered appraisal peer groups, the associations(NAIFA, NAREA, AI, Appraiser Guild, Appraiser Networks, etc). Thru this Blog forum, we should email this to all the appraisers, lenders, brokers, agents we know to get the ball rolling. I have been appraising in So Calif 16 years, there are millions of homes, two assignments a week for extended week periods is not what I call a career, let alone a job. My clients hands are tied, i am trying to help them untie!

Ct real estate guy: (November 19, 2009 10:12am)

Grow up government! go after the scumbags that are crooked. Appraisers are good folks, so go after the bad ones and leave the rest alone. DUHHHHH! dorks!

App: (November 19, 2009 10:09am)

caappr - a strike won't work. There has to be a line to cross for a strike to work. No physical line with appraisers, they work at home. How do you stop skippy from taking $150 1004's? There's a union in Maryland - they're part of the painters and drywall installers union of the AFL/CIO. I'm saying a guild, along the lines of the realtors guild, is the only way to get us together and keep our independence - and fees. http://www.unionofrealestateappraisers.com/

New Guy Ca: (November 19, 2009 10:02am)

Re: Appraiser (is that better) You hit the nail/ problem on the head..This is exactly what is happening.. Where there is a will there is a way for the dishonest to prosper in ANY selective regulations that come with the likes of HVCC...My view would to REALLY expose that this is being done Name Names if need be..Why protect these firms...It" exactly the type of B/S that caused the problems in the first place....

ej: (November 19, 2009 10:02am)

Bottom line is this....all the crap that has been slung against the wall could have been avoided if the RULES ALREADY IN PLACE had been enforced. i agree with the appraiser who said his clients didn't appraiser shop, they took his opinion and worded with it. i did the same with the several appraisers I have used over the past 13 years. no deal was wsorth going to jail for me or my appraisers. also, being a well bred southern lady i am still incensed that the whole mortgage industry is being controlled by some damn Yankee who couldn't patrol his own backyard and now wants to patrol the whole country. Tell him to get out of the way and let the rest of the country take care of itself. Isn't New York - Wall Street where all the meltdown started? Why isn't he spending more time worrying about those crooks, I apologize, Legal Swindlers on Wall Street?

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 9:58am)

Andrea - you make a great point. The HVCC process wouldn't be nearly as frustrating if the broker were being treated as a client.... instead, it's this idiotic Wheel of Fortune assignment process. For example, I have a guy who just did an HVCC appraisal with SunTrust, but we found after receiving title that his loan was properly seasoned. So, we had to wait a few weeks, and after the seasoning criteria was met, I needed to order a 2nd HVCC appraisal, through a different AMC. An utter waste of time.

Gabriellest: (November 19, 2009 9:58am)

Great Job Guys!!! Thank you from the bottom of my little ole appraiser heart!!!!!!!

twomintsinone: (November 19, 2009 9:57am)

Tony in hawaii-you are awesome-!!!PS:make sure you are having something really good to eat:)

caappr: (November 19, 2009 9:57am)

The appraiser's guild has obviously not done crap. Never heard of them or about them. I would pay $150 for someone to actually make phone calls and organize us. There has got to be some leaders, that are willing to do the work/ pick up the phone, for a REALLY good salary. It may not have worked before but I don't know 1 appraiser that wouldn't join now. Its really are only hope. Only appraiser's really understand appraising. No one else really gets the science of it. Of course we need to be able to talk to lenders, etc. We also need to police our own. With a union, we would all be unified and would actually have a voice. Strike, set standards, etc. Wouldn't our $100/ $150 be better spent that way? Union YES!!!!!

HKOregon: (November 19, 2009 9:56am)

"Appraiser pressure" is IMO an excuse. Greed, total banking control, screwing the consumer, screwing the appraiser and the bank's bottom line is why HVCC was created. Cuomo probably has buddies in the banking industry or owns a bank. Honestly ask yourself how many of you appraisers wrote formal complaints regarding "being pressured." When they pressured me I told them to go fly a kite and I kept a list of who I would never work for again. At least I got paid upfront. AMC's that have gone under owe me more than 3K...I'm billing Cuomo, but I don't think the check is in the mail.

SoonToLoseWork: (November 19, 2009 9:55am)

In Washington state here we have a guy named Tim Eyman who is constantly forming petitions and starting legislation to upend overzealous state taxation issues. This is what we need...a guy like that willing to spearhead a campaign to deal with this HVCC issue for all of us. Perhaps a call to him from one of you guys would do it.

MI Broker: (November 19, 2009 9:54am)

I just spent 2 weeks trying to get a final inspection order to the appraiser through an AMC. What was a 1 minute phone call or quick email and it took 2 weeks. The appraisal is done. How can I influence it at this point. The only appraiser's that are going to be influenced are the one's that are in a Broker's back pocket, remove that and your remove the problem. I don't agree with not being able to speak with the appraiser. I'm okay with not being able to choose the appraiser or suggest a value, but without being able to talk to the appraiser directly, I think that has caused the biggest problems with HVCC and the time issues.

twomintsinone: (November 19, 2009 9:53am)

I am going to think about possible lawyers...we could pool monies together as suggested-small amounts to fund this task.

Tony in Hawaii: (November 19, 2009 9:52am)

7:47 Tony in Hawaii: Regarding class action. The trick to successful class action suits is being able to show dollar damages to many people. The real class action attorneys invest a lot of their own money developing the suit, and they plan to get paid from 33% to 40% of the award or settlement. I have a very successful national class action attorney coming to dinner next Thursday and we are going to explore a HVCC suit. He is just wrapping up a national class action suit he won so he now has DEEP pockets and time on his hands. We will not need money, we will need information and documentation. This is where the TBWS community will be essential. I will be back to you all next Friday

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 9:51am)

Here is my idea-Allow all communication between all parties. Let anyone order the appraisal. Have borrower pay appraiser half the appraisal fee at door. ($200) Have broker liable for remainder. Appraisal is done with an inclusion of an actual list of sales/per time period/per neighborhood. You guys pick em-you do it now(Get rid of MC Form) Appraiser would include a short reason for inclusion/exclusion of that sale in his analysis. Validate the "opinion of value" by reviewing and validating the appraiser’s process not his opinion. UW would ensure that all sales are properly identified thru a 3rd party source. An appraisal reviewer would then review the exclusion reasons, the adjustments, and the reconciliation and provide an opinion that the appraiser has a logical defensible “opinion of value.” If defensible, use the value. If not, make the broker pay back the $200 to the borrower. If it is, let the borrower pay the remainder.

Andrea : (November 19, 2009 9:46am)

Even if brokers had the same option that bankers have - to avoid using AMC's, stack the deck with full fee, competent, local appraisers and then have someone in house other than the processor or originator order the appraisals and communicate with the appraiser that would be just fine. Right now, we are playing on two different playing fields and the bankers have a substantial edge but having competent appraisers give their opinion of value.

Appraiser661: (November 19, 2009 9:44am)

@App..lmao @ Hall and Oats....

App: (November 19, 2009 9:42am)

It just hasn't been the same since Hall and Oates broke up ;^)

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 9:41am)

Old Man - your idea of certified appraisers makes some sense. I still think focus needs to be put on the consumer. If a customer is looking to refi, I'd like to be able to give them my referral list of local guys that do good work. In addition, I could provide a list of "approved appraisers" from the banks I deal with. Before HVCC, the guys I used for appraisals were also on the approved lists for most of my lenders. If the customer is put in control of the ordering process, it eliminates the "orignator buffer" issue, allows me to at least try to get my old local guys some work, and saves the cusomter a ton of money and time. If the customer is smoking crack about the value of their home, I'd prefer they hear it from the appraiser before they even take a loan application from me, rather than wasting three weeks of my time.

Appraiser661: (November 19, 2009 9:40am)

@Owl Tree..Im not sure but I dont mess with anyone with blades on the bottom of his person!

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 9:34am)

It's about time someone asks....what would Brian Boitano do?

Old man of Orlando: (November 19, 2009 9:31am)

Here's a solution that General Cuomo should have though of in the first place, seeing as how he's a former DHUD Sercretary: just put FHA back the way it was before 1980. Have local FHA offices approve a panel, roster, what have you of certified appraisers, and assign them in rotation. Can't find anyone at FHA who remembers how this worked? Call the Department of Veterans Affairs; they've been "HVCC compliant" for the last 29 years, and the pay is GREAT. Conventional loans? Give Fannie and Freddie the toll free number and have them get their assignments from the FHA offices. Trying to reinvent the wheel is what got Cuomo and the rest of us in trouble in the first place - DO NOT MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE TWICE!! As far as a class action lawsuit cause of action, how about interstate conspiracy in restraint of trade, under Sherman and Clayton: an oldie but definitely a goodie. Real estate may be local, but there isn't anything more interstate and federally involved than mortgages. Ciao!!

App: (November 19, 2009 9:30am)

The AGA (Appraisers Guild of America) has the power of the AFL/CIO behind them. For $150 you can join in their actions to get rid of the HVCC. I'm a member. When the AFL/CIO talks government listens. It's not a union, it's more like the screen actors guild. Realtors are a perfect example of a modern day guild. We need to organize and a Guild offers more than we could ever do with a single lawsuit (there's already plenty out there). We need an Appraisers Guild all across America imo. Trying to organize appraisers is like trying to herd cats, they say. But when you have an organization that actually is on your side, then it's worth it to take a chance on real change for a C note and a 50. Whatever we do is going to take time and there's already those way ahead of us in the process. Time to try some new things that haven't been tried. That's my honest opinion anyway.

Appraiser661: (November 19, 2009 9:26am)

You all ate your smart food this morning. Umm hello, we have some serious brilliant minds right here. Lets put them all together and come up with our own damn solution. I have never seen so many intelligent people in one chat room. Not that I fancy chat rooms..We need a leader...

Realist 1: (November 19, 2009 9:26am)

I agree with appraiser 611. You can't have it both ways. There are all kinds of issues with having a middleman involved. You are either going to have one or you are not and they won't work for free. Interference in business practice is another issue of importance that needs to be addressed.

Appraiser661: (November 19, 2009 9:24am)

@Cluesdad..Im in Cali..love the idea..Im in!!!! Although I think at least 20% of the list will be leaving us by April if not more.

Jack: (November 19, 2009 9:24am)

I like the documentary on the loan industry; Michael Moore would be a good person to get out there. Or Mike Wallace. It is still newsworthy with the banks grabbing TARP funds and using it to eliminate brokers.

appr1: (November 19, 2009 9:24am)

We NEED a UNION.

Appraiser661: (November 19, 2009 9:23am)

@twomintsinone..I soooo agreee...AND Im in where do I sign?!!!!! We do need to rattle some heads...I have some ideas!!!

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 9:22am)

Here is a much more simple idea- there are 16000 licensed appraisers in CA, the largest state in the Union. Every one of them is on the web with their names addresses and tele numbers. Get 160 people to call 100 appraisers each. Get their email addresses and press them to join the group. No cost to them. Get a spokesperson to head the group. Now you have a unified body to speak your peace. Threaten the banks to stop the bank loan origination process with a stoppage of appraisal activity. Go after the head. The banks will only listen if they can't make money. Go after the banks. Seems like the banks could pressure FHFA to rid this stupid policy. Forget about Cuomo. This feels like the 60's all over again. YEEHAAA

App: (November 19, 2009 9:19am)

Cluelessdad, nothing needs to replace the HVCC. Just make sure there's enough funds for enforcement. 4 out of 5 banking regulators were exactly right when they said the HVCC was an unneccessary burden as there are already rules in place to protect appraisers against coercion - they just need to be enforced. I'm still all for getting rid of the bank as client and make the client the homeowner. With millions of potential clients who cares about one that wants to pressure you for value. Just refuse the assignment - there's plenty more assignments where that came from without arseholes you could take. No pressure

twomintsinone: (November 19, 2009 9:19am)

How could a buffer be good period???Isn't that the problem now??Politicians are crafty at mincing words to spin you around to what they want to see happen..Lets not loose our heads and think they care enough to rock their gravy boats and that the banks are not their friends ( as in help put them where they are above and beyond votes). Thank you Brain and Frank from the bottom of my heart..but... it is obvious that the WAMU sub prime loans (that were named in the original lawsuit from NY AG), the HVCC inseption and todays market are not the same... except.. small business is being screwed, consumers are being screwed and the banks are cleaning up.CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT...ANYONE know an attorney who believes in the core of America and wants to make a name for themselves?

Mark: (November 19, 2009 9:19am)

We all need to start flooding our respective National Trade Associations and get them hopping NOW. There is probably not a lot of clout left as they each have dwindling resources to fight, but if we can all put a little cash into the system, we may get farther quicker as they have the contacts for attorneys.

Appraiser661: (November 19, 2009 9:16am)

So If appraisers still have a barrier between loan originators and processors..where does that leave us? I dont think they are getting it...thats still leaves us client-less, doesnt it? I dont see how that can be fine tuned without the middle man and I still dont see that as a solution. All I know is I want my clients back and they want me back too. Not to brag, but if value is not there, my word is respected amongst my clients, they dont go shopping around, they lower value. It is what it is. So..if anyone is out there pushing value..take a stand..show some self worth and self respect. You then, in turn, wont ruin in for the rest of us!!! If Loan originators are putting pressure on you, move on and report it, there are plenty of clients in the sea! Saves you the hassle of fnding new comps in the 11th hour (funding condition) when you know there are none anyway..TAKE A STAND!

Jeff: (November 19, 2009 9:15am)

I think it's great TBWS has tackled an issue affecting everyone in the business. HVCC should be thrown out in its entirety. We have existing laws that regulate appraisers. My biggest problem with this is that an AG from NY can dictate business practices in CA. Of course, is that better or worse than Barney Frank doing it. At least BF is part of congress. Keep up the fight, guys!

App: (November 19, 2009 9:14am)

Clueless, Hmm, how did they get rid of Spitzer - maybe that would work with Cuomo lol. Actually, with Cuomo being in the pocket of the amc's there's not much difference between the 2. @sus I really like the idea of a documentary of our efforts sent to anyone and everyone in power - and the news too. Our story needs to get out and our greatest weapon is educating the public and administrators about wtf went wrong and wtf is still going wrong. It's obvious our legislature reps don't listen and forget about state or federal government caring. The public and educating them on how their taxpayer funds are being wasted and used, to this day, to screw them over is our greatest weapon. I once proposed a large ad in the NY Times to try to educate the public but couldn't get enough people to sign on.

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 9:12am)

Something to consider...........getting rid of HVCC is great, but what goes in its place to appease everyone's needs? Until we have that, any action is just rhetoric.

CA appr.: (November 19, 2009 9:11am)

No Cuomo? What a waste of time. Also, no beefy plan to have alot of people there. I kept waiting for the "road trip". 10 people cannot make a statement. There is no real unity with the appraisers. At one time, years ago they tried to form a union. Didn't go over then. I am sure it would now. I know I would sign to have our rights, time and product respected again. I am a Whore" for an AMC. No choice. Work or don't work last year. It has gone from bad to worse within the company. Fees are way under market,distance is unacceptable,turn time to produce a credible appraisal are not realistic.I have always cared about quality and refuse to do shoddy work. They really DO NOT care about that. Just how fast and how many. Volume and a constant appraiser turnover.I spoke up within the company weeks ago and set my boundries. My response? No work.Silence. A company email boasting record profits. AMC=Boy's club.Golf IS the game. We need a UNION. It could work now. Where can I sign?

Mark: (November 19, 2009 9:06am)

The general rule is as follows: The larger the class, or the more parties involved, the easier it is to get competent counsel involved on a contingency basis and the greater your chances are of recovering damages. I'm willing to spend a little cash to talk to my corp attorney about this

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 9:04am)

This is for Frank and Brian, you have had a day to absorb this, I think you guys got the politician shuffle, are you willing to back up a LAWSUIT on behalf of all of us. You guys have the steering wheel here. If you say no, the rest of us have no direction. This site has the most power because it combines all the industries, which the others are more industry specific. Can a lawsuit get us to our goal? I will join any group that is involved in that if it has a legal foundation to start with. I am in.

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 9:03am)

mchammer - In a perfect world, I'd still be ordering the appraisals, but that world is gone and most likely won't come back. I'd rather have the borrower deal with the appraiser than the Bermuda Triangle crap I'm dealing with under HVCC. And given everything that's happened over the past 2+ years, if appraisers haven't developed enough backbone to handle the "pressure", they need to find a new career. If you have a better solution, I'm all ears, seriously.

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 9:01am)

App-When I spoke with Frank two days ago about the visit to Miller's office, he said that he may not have the time to personally visit, however he may talk to her on the phone.

jason: (November 19, 2009 9:00am)

where can we find the cnbc story?

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:59am)

App-It is the NY statute that allows the state AG to do anything, subpoena anybody, go after anyone, both publicly and privately and have NO repercussions at all against the AG. Spitzer had the same power. It allows him to be the new sheriff in town and in this case the country. We now have 4 branches of govt, the exec., the leg, the jud, and now the AG of NY.

sus ca appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:59am)

The lending/mortgage process is dated & has a lot of flaws - especially in our new age of E/Marketing. HVCC has opened the door to the issues. I say Let BUILD UP. Lets take what the GUY'S have started with the trip to NY, Fox inverview & CNBC Viedo & turn this into a Short Documentary. This DocU can be sent to all OUR Rep's, Gov's, Atty G, sate & national. We can tell our story & HAVE REAL SOLUTIONS to the PROBLEMS. WE want to PRESENT SOLUTIONS to REAL FACTS. Our Lending Process is MULTI-Layered. We want to PRESENT ourselves as LEADERS with SOLUTIONS. I'm sure we would all be willing to contrubute to the CAUSE(s) - Documentary, viedo, legal & Class Action. Each day in this BLOG - we offer comments & views. Lets turn this into something Positive to make a change. WE have POWER in numbers & the Petition is proof positive of this. Do we need to start a Class Action to get Attention - what will it cost - What type of atty do we need?

mchammer: (November 19, 2009 8:59am)

Owl Tree: This is a horrible solution. Appraisals prepared for homeowners are the absolute worst, and the level of pressure to make numbers is most intense.

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 8:56am)

Here's my suggestion: Require the borrower to select, order, and pay for the appraiser up front. The loan originator should be able to refer an appraiser, but let the final say be with the borrower. Let the borrower "own" the appraisal....they should be able to use it for whatever the hell they want. A customer pays a CPA to prepare their taxes, and nobody questions them. Similarly, if the customer orders an appraisal from a reputable, licensed, local appraisal, then the same standards should apply. This doesn't mean that the lender is forced to accept the appraisal. If the appraisal is "baked", then the appraiser and the borrower should be held accountable for it. Lenders have sufficient quality control tools in place to screen out suspect appraisals. They should retain the right to reject them. The thought of a customer coming into my office with an appraisal already in hand sends thrills up my leg.

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:54am)

I think Cuomo's people did a great job of deflecting the media and our boys. I too saw that in Frank's face as he exited the building. Maybe he was overly tired, but it sure seemed like our expectations were much higher going in to this get together.

BMFI: (November 19, 2009 8:54am)

There was false information given yesterday on Fox news about the Lenders not able to have more than 20% ownership in an AMC. The HVCC doc on Cuomo's website says they cannot but if you check out Fannie and Freddie they have an updated one that went through right before May 1 That gives lenders no restrictions. You can also see this with Provident Funding which we are having major problems with as LenderVend is their AMC which is a DBA of Provident Funding they own a 100%. I would also like to get with you guys to discuss Provident and using your Video's to warn people in our industry as I have 4,000 in appraisal fees that borrowers have paid and they will not let the deals go through as they terminated us saying we were flagged for high maintenance as a tier 1 broker.

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:54am)

There has got to be an attorney that wrestled with Cuomo before that wants a fight he can win. I say go after Cuomo for all the things identified by the posters here. If they say it can't be done, OK, but should'nt we fight more aggresively then waiting for HVCC to be "fixed". I for one want this gone NOW. I am in for $100. like MARK said, small price to pay, even if we lose, you cant lose or win if you dont get into the fight. If anyone knows an attorney, maybe from New York, like clulessdad said. I want IN.

BMFI: (November 19, 2009 8:52am)

There was false information given yesterday on Fox news about the Lenders not able to have more than 20% ownership in an AMC. The HVCC doc on Cuomo's website says they cannot but if you check out Fannie and Freddie they have an updated one that went through right before May 1 That gives lenders no restrictions. You can also see this with Provident Funding which we are having major problems with as LenderVend is their AMC which is a DBA of Provident Funding they own a 100%. I would also like to get with you guys to discuss Provident and using your Video's to warn people in our industry as I have 4,000 in appraisal fees that borrowers have paid and they will not let the deals go through as they terminated us saying we were flagged for high maintenance as a tier 1 broker.

SimpleSolution: (November 19, 2009 8:52am)

Hey guys-If you find that a lawsuit is the way to go, count me in. I will definitely contribute what I can....being a broke appraiser and all...:)

App : (November 19, 2009 8:51am)

Miller act? What's that clueless and how would that work in our favor? Thx

Mark: (November 19, 2009 8:48am)

We should start one today. Maybe TBWS can bee the center point for collection of the contributions. Maybe NAMB and The Appraisal Institute would like to join in.

Manny: (November 19, 2009 8:46am)

I aggree with OLD DOG Cuomo showed us no respect by not being there in person.I think its time for a law suit, after all that is how its started, didn't it?

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:45am)

Mark: your right even at $50-100 a pop, thats alot of power. What other options, I am sick of writing my locals, watching 3044 and 3126 listening and hearing little from the media. I think more aggressive moves are needed not less aggressive like what happened at cuomos office. You might as well have agreed to disagree!

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:44am)

You will probably need a NY state lawyer and he will have to go after the State AG and all of his resources. He has got to have some cajones. It is an "all in" bet for him.

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:42am)

Go after Cuomo by repealing the Miller Act, which allows him to run amuck. Get him by the Ba**s and his heart and mind will follow. Don't just go after HVCC, go higher than that.

Owl Tree: (November 19, 2009 8:40am)

I don't know if class action is the way to go, but considering the non-stop war being waged on the local independent mortgage professional, I'm all for fighting back. Fact is, a lot of people are sick of "too big to fail", and pushing the little guy off the playing field for the benefit of the Bail Out Boys is a major part of the problem. Customers and small business are getting screwed - whether it takes a class action to drive that home, or a concentrated lobbying/media effort, I'm inclined to think it is the latter. But if the latter fails, why not go out swinging?

San Diego Loan Guru: (November 19, 2009 8:39am)

I am very grateful for your efforts, Thank You both

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:39am)

Then lets talk lawsuit, I do not know how to get it started, but there are enough people here to find someone to explain the possibilities of realities of a class action. Maybe the lawsuit should focus on Cuomos office. Yes I know he is the AG, but maybe we fight fire with fire. Someone has to know an Attorney with some idea of how this can be done. Remember, this suit has to be to eliminate HVCC not negotiate a better HVCC, that does not exist. So if we cant fight fannie/freddie, lets take cuomo on. Or do we negotiate and die waiting for politicians promises

Fast Eddie: (November 19, 2009 8:37am)

I think a class action lawsuit is a very good idea. It takes money. Each appraiser and LO puts in $25-$100 and you'll have enough punch to pull it off.

Jonas: (November 19, 2009 8:37am)

Frank & Brian - I'm extremely proud of you for what you've accomplished. I appreciate you keeping us informed, up to date with the on site videos and entertained on top of it. No one else that I know of has gone to such extremes to make a difference for us. Thank You!

kirkwilliams: (November 19, 2009 8:36am)

Separation from appraiser is still a bizarre concept for me as an originator. We are probably the only business that can't talk to the vendors that support us in delivering our product. I for one never had to pressure nor did my appraisers feel the pressure...why? Because when you have an underwriter and many different systems the investor now uses to review the good work of an experienced appraiser the conversation ends there. The value is what it is. We should be able to pick our own appraisers and if I can't talk to them fine. Let me do my work and allow me to surround myself with professionals...NOT HACKS.

App : (November 19, 2009 8:34am)

There are class-action lawsuits going on right now. Check out this link, maybe you could join. http://www.hbsslaw.com/WFCappraisals. Hagens, Berman, Sobol and Shapiro in Washington state have at least 3 going on right now.

Mark: (November 19, 2009 8:33am)

So if we were to take the 102,000 signaturs and each gave $100 we would have a pot of 10 mill to use for attorneys. Is it worth $100? You betcha. NAMB does not have the money to make a fight

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:33am)

BTW- FHFA is running FNMA and FHLMC under conservatorship authority. Guess who runs FHFA? That is right. All the banks. Connect the dots

Old Dog: (November 19, 2009 8:32am)

If Cuomo was going to take us, Brian and Frank, seriously or respectfully ro with any kind of concern...he would have been there. Sounds like they got snowed to me...with the usual political "blah, blah, blah. Law suit now sounds like a better idea.

Trusted: (November 19, 2009 8:30am)

I am all for a class action suit. There are enough constitutional infringements in this mess to warrant a suit. I mean WTF if people can sue nd win over being burned by a hot cup of coffee, our case should be a breeze.

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:29am)

A class action is a good idea, except for the cost of doing it. My experience with lawyers and the legal system is that "he with the most resources wins" Stall, stall, stall, is the motto. When NAMB filed suit against the HVCC, the FHFA said that even if the courts ruled in favor of repeal, because FNMA was under conservatorship, they would never honor any judicial action.

App : (November 19, 2009 8:28am)

Real appraiser - how would you go about it? NAMB tried a lawsuit and FHFA said as long as the GSE's were in conservatorship their policies can't be challenged. Illegal yes. Does anyone care that it's illegal? No. My state AG doesn't care, I think he likes getting pushed around by Cuomo.

Mark: (November 19, 2009 8:28am)

Real Appraiser - WE havve more than just the HVCC to use. With all the focus on getting rid of Mtg Brokers (elimination of YSP, lic requirements that banks do not have to follow) we have enough in print to show discrimination, unfair business, restraint of trade and others. I'm sure that with our numbers we can make a change real quick.

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:28am)

mark and Deedie: keep asking for it, lets here from everyone else, who would be in, so far I count at least three.

Old Dog: (November 19, 2009 8:28am)

real appraiser.... read Trusted comments and then yes...class action lawsuit might get someones attention

Deedie: (November 19, 2009 8:26am)

Mark and real appraiser me too, How do we get it started?

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:25am)

Mark, I think we should keep shouting this until more agree or at least say why it would not work. I think that because of TBWS, there is enough people to do damage. Can someone explain why a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT is a bad idea?

jackofalltrades: (November 19, 2009 8:24am)

HOOAY! For Brian & Frank in NYC!!! Keep UP the Good work Guy's let's make HVCC better! Let's keep talking about, Lady Liberty and Justice for ALL!

Hammer: (November 19, 2009 8:24am)

Nice to see Frank and Brian dressed up, ROFLMAO..... ;)

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:23am)

Sorry the last line should read "The bad ones will still get their fair share and the good ones will never gain share."

Mark: (November 19, 2009 8:22am)

Real Appraiser - I'm all in. Have been trying to get one rolling for months

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:21am)

How many here would join a class action lawsuit to try to make a real impact? I think the prior poster is right. trying to settle with cuomo or "fix' his HVCC will never happen. We need more avenues, the media could care less, lawsuits speaks in a way they understand. I for one would be in for a class action lawsuit!!!!

jmerik: (November 19, 2009 8:20am)

Jersey girl looks hot!!!

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:19am)

Trusted-you are absolutely correct! And any random ordering process that is similar to VA is a restraint of trade. Why would anyone want to get into the appraisal business if all I could get is 1/16000 of all the appraisal business in the state of CA? (That is how many appraisers are in CA)The good ones will still get their fair share and the good ones will never gain share.

App : (November 19, 2009 8:19am)

Yeah, I'm curious about that too. CNBC was there? Any newspaper coverage? I'm hoping the hype about appraisal fraud didn't make them turn away as they've already heard all the sensationalism from both sides that they need to hear. They need something new, they need facts.

**IMPORTANT**: (November 19, 2009 8:15am)

HAS ANYONE READ WWW.ANDREWCOUMO.COM (THIS IS SPELLED CORRECTLY). NOBODY GETS TO SEE ANDREW HIMSELF, UNLESS YOU HAVE A LARGE CHECK FOR HIM.

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:13am)

The CNBC people were there? has there been any coverage of this on CNBC?

**IMPORTANT**: (November 19, 2009 8:12am)

APP- DON'T WORRY, KEEP REMINDING BRIAN AND FRANK TO SEE A CONGRESSPERSON. IT IS A BETTER SOLUTION.

Cautious in California: (November 19, 2009 8:12am)

It bother's me that Cuomo would not say a word to the camera. If you listen to the tape carefully it sounds like the TBWS people only spoke with Cuomo's people, not Cuomo himself.

Old Dog: (November 19, 2009 8:08am)

Trusted...you said a mouthful!! ABSOLUTELY! Thank you for so clearly stating the appraisers' position.

App : (November 19, 2009 8:07am)

Cuomo will never admit he made a mistake. His political aspirations won't allow it. I hate to keep hitting on this subject, but I hope you guys can meet with Rep Millers people on Friday - they can and will do something

Mark: (November 19, 2009 8:05am)

Joe - the AG of New York has made this a national problem when it should have only been for the State of New York

SLC Appraiser: (November 19, 2009 8:05am)

I dont want HVCC to be modified... I want it to be gone! That is why I signed the petition.

Joe Parsons: (November 19, 2009 8:04am)

The AG of New York has no political reason to change anything. OUR elected officials do. That is where we should be directing our efforts now. The mere fact that there are over 100,000 voters' signatures on a petition should get the attention of their representatives. Joe Parsons Dublin, CA

Clulessdad: (November 19, 2009 8:03am)

I agree with trixskier. You can't legislate morals or ethics. You can't stop communication. You have to allow the good appraisers to get more business, not just be around for a random chance of getting work. I want the good appraisers to get more work, paid better, while the bad ones go away. Let the marketplace dictate who wins and who fails. The valuation process needs to be changed, from a single "opinion of value" to providing what I call a "defensible valuation process." Loan originators and appraisers who cannot support a defensible opinion of value need to incur financial losses on every deal they try to put together that overinflates value. It is big change in concept, but rewards the good and penalizes the bad. And even more important, the consumer doesn't get hurt. The assumption must be made that all of the bad stuff will happen, so assume it will and then create a system that will prevent it from getting a false conclusion. I wrote Frank with my idea several weeks ago.

App : (November 19, 2009 8:03am)

I'm LMAO, Congress is tearing Geithner a new one on CNBC - hahahahaaaaa. One says he should be fired, another says he should never have been hired to begine with. Excellent! bwahahahaaaa

Joe Parsons: (November 19, 2009 8:02am)

F&B, you guys ROCK, and you know we love you here...but I think you got Cuomo'd. I really thought you were meeting with Andy hisself--but apparently he couldn't be bothered, and delegated his staff instead. The underlings have all the time in the world to soothe folks like us; that's their job. I don't believe their job is actually to arrive at a solution to what may well be a non-problem for their boss. From a political standpoint, I see little upside for Cuomo to "fix" HVCC. Even though he was once Secretary of HUD (that gave him some inside info to get HVCC through, bypassing the Administrative Procedures Act), I don't believe he did what he did out of altruistic motives. I think it was much more a show of force on his part in his quest for higher office (he is a likely candidate for Governor in 2010). I see our petition as a good start, as it raised some awareness abdout the issue. (continued)

**IMPORTANT**: (November 19, 2009 8:01am)

One simple solution, install a hotline to report abuse. Get rid of HVCC.

App : (November 19, 2009 7:58am)

It just kills me that Dodd and Frank think we need a new regulatory body that's going to cost hundreds of billions to trillions when the answer is so easy - enforce the regulations that are already in place and make the banks liable for the loans they write. Or, get rid of the bank as client. There's not enough money to be made taking the intelligent course of action. As has been so rampant, lets attack the problem by creating a different problem that runs parallel to the original problem but does nothing to correct the original problem - it's a money maker! It's like, There's no money to be made in curing cancer, the money is to be made in treating it. HAVOCC is a cancer and needs to go.

Trusted: (November 19, 2009 7:54am)

Lets not get twisted up in the issues that we feel will gather support for overturning this dastardly regulation known as the HVCC. Issues such as under or over valuation, consumer cost, incompentency, etc. This is about the freedom a licensed and legal entity (Appraiser) being prohibited by government from being able to pursue business opportunities in a fair and unencumbered manner and, through government intervention, placing a government sanctioned middleman into the process that takes a portion of our lawful fees in exchnage for the privelege of us being able to do business. The HVCC is no different than the government using imminent domain to take away your home and giving it to another private party. Our businesses and fees are our property and the HVCC took our property away..period.

Un happy with results: (November 19, 2009 7:48am)

Getting rid of HVCC is the only thing that will improve this situation. It shouldn't matter if the loan officer has contact with the appraiser, we are both licensed and if we do the wrong thing thing there should be a penalty. Another thing, the lenders all have appraisal review departments, and many of them review all the appraisals. So why HVCC too?

App : (November 19, 2009 7:45am)

It's ALL the lender/client/amc's choice of appraiser - that was shown in the WAMU/Eapp fraud case. As long as lenders prefer cheapest and fastest there will be no ethics or morality in this profession. AMC's are proud to show the bad guys won by their choice of rewarding sloppy reporting and blacklisting good appraisers due to the higher standards they expect from themselves and those they work with. There's not an excess of quality appraisers, there's an excess sloppy appraisers that need to be gotten rid of. How crazy is that - get rid of the good appraisers and reward the least qualified. Sure makes their avm's look good. Get rid of the lender as client - problem solved. As long as the lender can control absolutely any part of the process, the process will be absolutely corrupted. **ARE YOU GUYS GOING TO BE ABLE TO MEET WITH REP MILLERS PEOPLE ON FRIDAY?

Gary: (November 19, 2009 7:41am)

Like others who have commented, I did not sign the HVCC to have it amended. It needs to be killed. We are creating work rules that hurt the hard working honest appraisers and mortgage originators. More government regulations do not protect the consumer. What about making lenders obtain a field review from another appraisal to show that the values are not being manipulated.

Gary: (November 19, 2009 7:41am)

Like others who have commented, I did not sign the HVCC to have it amended. It needs to be killed. We are creating work rules that hurt the hard working honest appraisers and mortgage originators. More government regulations do not protect the consumer. What about making lenders obtain a field review from another appraisal to show that the values are not being manipulated.

Mark: (November 19, 2009 7:41am)

Again - the HVCC should have only affected the loans and appraisals in New York. The HVCC was a settlement between Fannie/Freddie and Cuomo. Banks have become rich off the the HVCC with their own AMC's. When are we going to file a class action suit???

kevin: (November 19, 2009 7:36am)

My favorite processor Robin brought up a good point yesterday. If lenders are making money on each appraisal order they take...even if this gets repealed, what is there to motivate lenders to change their way of doing things? Especially portability...which doesn't happen anyway. Where is the motivation for them to go back to the old way of doing things? Hate to be negative...but money is a big factor...

NorthWalesPA: (November 19, 2009 7:35am)

I know you guys tried. A politician open to suggestion is of little victory. The pressure should be on Barney Frank and Congress. Cuomo did not pass HVCC. He was the catalyst. Pressure on him is good; however, pressuring congress to pass the relevant bills should be our goal. Deliver the petition to Barney Frank and then take the Acella train down to DC and give congress a copy.

Jill K.: (November 19, 2009 7:35am)

doodoo lol that's cute but, DON'T CENSOR ME lol

Jill K.: (November 19, 2009 7:33am)

A barrier between loan officers/loan processors and the appraisers? BULLdoodoo! More to follow.

Witchhunt: (November 19, 2009 7:32am)

Good job on the presentation, you did a good job. Now back to work. HVCC needs to be eliminated.

SFLAppraiser: (November 19, 2009 7:29am)

I couldn't agree with Trixskier more... "YOU CAN'T LEGISLATE MORALS!" I couldn't have said it better myself. Enforce the rules that are in place and let those who are directly involved in the business make the guidelines.

GODLIKE: (November 19, 2009 7:29am)

Additionally, any system that does not reward the good appraisers with more business, and punish the bad ones will never work. In the good ol' days when FHA used a system similar to VA's today as a realtor when one of the known bad appraisers was assigned the file we simply didn't let him in the house and the appraisal was reassigned to another appraiser. The difference between FHA's old system and the VA system of today is that VA polices their appraisers much more and assures the bad appraisers are taken off the list.

katdog: (November 19, 2009 7:26am)

I agree with 'real appraiser.' While I appreciate your efforts, I did NOT sign the HVCC Petition in order the have it amended, I signed it to END it, so I'm a little disappointed by hearing that you've agreed to "work with them" for a solution. There IS NO solution other than to get rid of the HVCC. Please don't give up on us! Perhaps it would be better to now align with the people behind HR 3126 and 3044 and the NAR, and let Cuomo know we will NOT compromise. Again, your efforts are applauded, but please - let's stay on track and do what we originally intended!

GODLIKE: (November 19, 2009 7:26am)

A system that puts a barrier between the Lender, Owner, &/or borrower and the appraiser won't be any/much better than what we have now. There needs to be clear and easy lines of communications between everyone so that information can flow freely. The sellers & lenders many times have information the Appraiser needs and, for it to work smoothly for the appraiser, the appraiser needs to stay in contact with the customers so that appraisal problems aren't just dropped into people's lap as a done deal. If there's value problem and it is explained to the customer before the fact and the customer has time to look for and give their input it goes a very long way towards them accepting the numbers with good grace and also helps build good relationships which builds your business. But also keep in mind that no matter what you put together there will always be those who will pervert the system.

BMFI: (November 19, 2009 7:24am)

There was false information given yesterday on Fox news about the Lenders not able to have more than 20% ownership in an AMC. The HVCC doc on Cuomo's website says they cannot but if you check out Fannie and Freddie they have an updated one that went through right before May 1 That gives lenders no restrictions. You can also see this with Provident Funding which we are having major problems with as LenderVend is their AMC which is a DBA of Provident Funding they own a 100%. I would also like to get with you guys to discuss Provident and using your Video's to warn people in our industry as I have 4,000 in appraisal fees that borrowers have paid and they will not let the deals go through as they terminated us saying we were flagged for high maintenance as a tier 1 broker.

big Mike: (November 19, 2009 7:22am)

Ladies and Gents., When you think of AMC's think of pimps. A pimp does not help da Ho, take most of the profit, beat da ho (that would be us appraisers) and stomps the john for money. They are pimps.

App : (November 19, 2009 7:21am)

Frank knows - all we need are the regulations that are already in place to be enforced. 4 out of 5 banking regulators said the HVCC could have unintended consequences and that it shouldn't be enacted and that there were already enough regulations to prevent appraiser coercion - they just need to be enforced. FHFA over ruled and instituted it anyway - after a bogus open comment period that somehow changed things, like allowing ownership of the amc's by the banks. Can you guys meet with Rep Miller (Ca.) on Friday? BTW- Get off that appraisal fraud tact and get on how it's hurting the consumer if you want to be taken seriously. JMO

James the Appraiser: (November 19, 2009 7:19am)

Underwriters need to be told to talk with the appraiser, and not through the loan officer. After the report gets to the underwriter the loan officer should be left out so that the underwriter and appraiser can go point to point over what the underwriter sees as an issues and the appraiser can point out why the report has the data that it has. The loan officer does not need to be a part of this, all he cares about is that the other two come to an understanding. On the report that I have been spending 3 weeks on this would have helped alot. The underwriter would tell the loan officer on the phone every thing, then the loan office would call me and try to pass it on. I never got the full story and the loan officer did not understand half of what the underwriter was telling him, so I got garagae half the time. Now you see what it took 3 weeks to get a report through that could have taken 3 days.

MS: (November 19, 2009 7:15am)

I agree with trixskier. You guys are doing a great job but you just got stalled. If we enforce the laws in place none of this would be needed and to agree to write a new HVCC is just their way of putting you off but making you feel like something got accomplished. Politics as usual.

GODLIKE: (November 19, 2009 7:14am)

Whatever the system is that you promote make sure it ELIMINATES AMCs. There's no need for their middleman existence at all! A broker is a middle man but they put the public in contact with a money source the man on the street doesn't have access to plus they provide a service on top of that. The AMCs are simply an extra cost component to the system.

big Mike: (November 19, 2009 7:12am)

I bet those pettions beat you guys out of the building. Do you know how come, because of terminal velocity, that's right they hit the trash shoot. Sorry and "trixskier" makes a good point.

Ancient Appraiser: (November 19, 2009 7:09am)

No matter the results you guys rock ! You put a lot of time and effort into this and I for one am very appreciative of what you have done! It's to little to late for me but I will able to lend support wherever I can!

big Mike: (November 19, 2009 7:08am)

Treat Cuomo like the wise guys do, keep him close and know what he it up to. but that's it, do not make deals with the devil. Work instead to completely get rid of HVCC. Besides guys, he does not have the power to change it. Read that part again, please. HVCC was an agreement in court as part of a settlement. So it's done!!!! Now work with congress and get you collective heads out of you bum. You just spendt thousands of dollars on a hand job without happy ending. Your are suffering from HeadiousStuckInRectalous. There are to cures for this problem, install a belly button window or stand up straight. The N.Y. State Assholeous might as well sold you the Brooklyn Bridge while you were there. But I like your zeal for the task, just direct it at those with the power to enact change. PLEASE, pretty please with ridilan on top for Brian.

trixskier: (November 19, 2009 7:02am)

Guys thanks for all your effort and it is really appreciated, so don't take the following comments as not being thankful of your effort. Dont' cave to a compromise. HVCC needs to end, not be revised. That is why I signed your petition. If another set of rules needs to written, then so be it. And let a committe made up of the ones that are all directly involved/affected in this industry do the rule making(NAR,NAMB, Appraisers, etc...) To say on camera that you have no problem that a barrier still needs to be in place between the appraiser and loan orig./processors is wrong and is "one of" the major flaws of the current HVCC. The barrier or firewll will not change the fact that you will have bad appriasers, rogue mort. broker. Nor would any "guidelines" do away with bad loan officers, attornery's, doctors, accountants and so on... BECAUSE YOU CAN'T LEGISTLATE MORALS. This is simple and a one sentence rule will take care of this. "Enforce the laws that are in place".

CHUCK: (November 19, 2009 7:00am)

CUOMO SHOWED HIS TRUE COLOR WHEN HE MADE HIMSELF UNAVAIBLE AND JUST LET HIS STAFF HANDLE YOU GUYS. THEY ARE PROFESSIONAL NEGOSIBLE PEOPLE AND YOU TWO THOUGHT YOU WERE WINNING THE CONTEST. THEY HAD YOU LEAVING THAT OFFICE AND ACTUALLY BELIEVING THAT CRAP. I AM ACTUALLY STARTING TO GET A LITTLE BUSY WITH WORK...AFTER ABOUT TWO YEARS OF DYING AND THINKING GOING B.K. NOW YOU TWO WANT TO WORK WITH THEM AND GIVE THEM MORE AMMUNITION TO REALLY PUT ALL APPRAISERS INTO THE GROUND.

Appraiser (is that better?): (November 19, 2009 7:00am)

I lost all my clients for nothing, the HVCC has had no effect on those lenders who it was intended for. Here is why, I am also a real estate broker, while in the office the other day I was approached by our in house lender, lets just call them Starkey, since they had not seen me there before she introduced herself to me and offered her services as a lender, I asked here about deals failing because appraisal coming in short and she smiled and told me not to worry about that, they still use the same appraiser they have for years and have never had problems with value (number hitters) I asked isn't that a violation of the HVCC and it appears they own the AMC in which they order appraisal and only their appraisers are on the rotation? So, that tells me honest/ethical appraisers our out on there ass, and honest/ethical lenders who have tried to comply with this BS policy have paid the price while those who this was meant to stop just found away around it. I hear that Clarion Mortgage will be starting their own AMC as well. Hey! here is to the BS.

Old Timer: (November 19, 2009 6:59am)

higginson - Mr. Cuomo was on the board of directors for an AMC called AMCO. They are no longer in business, but I am sure there was alot of pocket-stuffing for Cuomo to bend the HVCC into the hands of his former friends. you can google it and see many articles on the net.

Rocky Mtn Mortgage Broker: (November 19, 2009 6:57am)

I think Fannie, Freddie, and other investors should take a look at the FHA streamline model for a solution on HVCC. Homeowners requesting a rate & term refinance should have to qualify based on income and credit, but I don't think the appraisal is necessary. If the borrower has great credit, qualifying income, wants to stay in their home, and just wants a lower rate this should work. FHA has been allowing this for years without qualifying credit or income so it seems the same model should work. I realize appraisers would have a strong argument against this, but seems like a simple solution to HVCC. I personally have seen very few issues with HVCC appraisals on purchases as opposed to all the issues that come up on appraisals for refinances. All these borrowers want are low rates advertised all over the place. Refi Plus and Open Access kind of had the idea, but screwed it up with all the adjusters for people over 95% which are the people that need the most help.

LVAspr: (November 19, 2009 6:55am)

IMHO Platforms similar to ApraisalPort would do what there asking. The appraiser can Accept, Decline or Accept with conditions. The next step would be to get the local Appraisers to stop accepting low fee assignments, because they are hurting all Appraisers buy accepting the low fee assignments offered by the AMC's.

app: (November 19, 2009 6:52am)

higginson: google Cuomo and AMCO (an amc).

real appraiser: (November 19, 2009 6:42am)

I know you guys gave it your best shot. But it seems that his office just oiled a very tiny squeaky wheel (in their minds). I do not think there is a chance of anything good working WITH them. These people are politician and negotiate everything so NO one wins. I think you should not stretch this out any further by trying to work with them and go on the attack against them through hr 3126 and 3044 and anything else. I believe that they put you right where they wanted, trying to fix something that can not be fixed. Brian sounds like he needs to be on their side of this. I think Franks face coming out of the office was the true indicator. Do not align yourself with the wrong side. I would rather keep fighting against them, not work together. But it was a great effort on your part, I am not taking anything away from everything you guys did, don't give in now! good job.

higginson: (November 19, 2009 6:30am)

I've heard/read more than a few time that Cuomo is an investor in one of the largest AMCs around. Before I speak on the absurdity of this possible conflict of interest, can an anyone confirm this and verify it with a link? Thanks.

Look in th Mirror: (November 19, 2009 6:27am)

Yes, Frank & Brian. If you make another trip it would be great to give people a couple of weeks notice. My brother and I had planned to go (me from CA, he is from WA) to support you, but 2 days is not enough notice to make arrangements for a trip for us. It would be great to get people there in force. And next time, let's visit Barney & Friends in Congress.

MortgageBrokerGal: (November 19, 2009 6:24am)

Good job, Guys! Thanks for your efforts and those of all the TBWS bloggers that turned up for the big event. I agree with previous posts on the FHA/VA system, however, it still allows the originator to discuss the property with the assignee, which Cuomo et al will approve. It is however, the fastest and most cost effective way to go. It took us 6 months to get this far, so we can't stop now. We still need the moratorium so that we can work through the rest of these issues. As for those of you asking about YSP, I have heard that FHA will be removing the manadatory 1% origination fee rule to offset the proposed ruling to pay all YSP to borrower. Not written in stone, but a pretty good start.

ne appraiser: (November 19, 2009 6:09am)

Love what you did. Me and my posse would have showed up but I didn't see anywhere WHEN or WERE you were going to be. I was to lazy to read through 200 posts, so if it was there i didn't see it.

danmortgageman: (November 19, 2009 6:04am)

What was accomplished you caved to their thinking, HVCC needs to be gone period or we all will be gone.

BarryChicago: (November 19, 2009 5:56am)

You guys are awesome in front of the camera every morning, but terrible negotiators. When a politician's office presents their position you need to present your position. Ultimately you want to arrive at a middle ground closer to your side than their's. It sounds like Cumo's office presented their side to you and you just said OK, let's work together like a couple of good boy-scouts. I signed your petition to push for an end to HVCC, not amend it to make appraisals transportable. Nothing about improving HVCC will solve the problem of bad appraisers putting together bad appraisals. I just waged a battle with LSI over a bad appraisal in Sherman Oaks, CA AND WON. The 2nd appraisal, FREE OF CHARGE, came in 10% higher than the 1st one. But the time burnt on the rate-lock? 10 days = .25 point = $625,500 x .25% = $1500 + in expenses to either the client or me thanks to the HVCC process...and this is when it 'WORKED'. HVCC needs to go away, not be amended. Let's finish the job that we started!

Double D: (November 19, 2009 5:46am)

Awesome job you guys! Keep up the fight and keep us informed of how you think the best way to convert HVCC to a new system will work.

ATLGal: (November 19, 2009 5:46am)

Thank you guys for moving forward with the HVCC issue. At the very least, our voices were heard because of you. Looking forward to next week and your being able to mold together input from the viewers as to how we can improve HVCC. Keep going!

NimaLoans.com: (November 19, 2009 5:40am)

Thanks for the big delivery. What are we going to do with Barney Frank and Co.? I know HVCC is hurting our business but for mortgage brokers nationwide, YSP could put us out of business. I refuse to work for the big banks that are run by the government. I also think you should start a Email chain and next time tell us exact times when you will be at different locations so that you could get bigger support from the viewers. I only live 45-50 minutes out of NYC and I would have came if I knew exact times/locations.

Alamo Appraiser: (November 19, 2009 5:39am)

Frank & Brian, first off, koodos for pulling this off. Years ago I presented a petition to the then congressman on the house banking committe, but to no avail. As for HVCC, I, like the last person in your video, will be out of business soon if HVCC is not resolved quickly. It took years to build an appraisal business and find clients who would accept my honest opinion. It took only seconds for all that to be taken away with the stroke of a pen. I still can't understand how an Attorney General from New York can dictate how the whole country does business. As for an alternative, I recommend looking at the VA system. As a VA appraiser, I will say, I love the governments backing of the appraiser in that if I don't make value we ask the point of contact on the other side to provide additional information for us to consider. If there is none or the information isn't relavent, the point of contact at least knows the effort that went into the value conclusion and why it's fair.

squashedinNC: (November 19, 2009 5:39am)

I am a huge fan, but be careful not to get sucked in to the Cuomo mindset. I think it is important to communicate with appraisers. It saves the consumers money to field a value before you order an appraisal. Lets trust appraisers to do their job and give them some credit for being professionals with scruples. The appraisers I used to work with were great, and ethical. Thanks for all you guys do.

MaddSass: (November 19, 2009 5:27am)

As my son would say...YOU THE MAN!!! Thanks guys

higginson: (November 19, 2009 5:22am)

Thanks guys! Good stuff. I agree with the 1st post to not fall into the, "hey, Cuomo and his people are really pretty nice and want to work together on this...". Sounds like a way for them to appease and patronize you so maybe you'll feel like your work is done...not that you'd fall for that, just sayin'. Anyway, the easiest thing would be to just get rid of HVCC and go back to the old ways. By the time HVCC had come out all of my lenders' underwriters were already scrutinizing every appraisal with a fine tooth comb because they finally realized that one of the reasons they were going broke is because they weren't paying attention. The market made the correction in any glitch regarding appraisal misconduct. Could it be that just enforcing the laws already on the books is the correct thing to do here? I know that's an unlikely solution, but IMO appraisal fraud or broker pressure on appraisers was such a small piece of the problem that its being over emphasized.

Jersey Mortgage Man: (November 19, 2009 5:22am)

Great job guys! But I have serious doubts. The banks have Cuomo in their pocket. Sounds like "open to solutions" means we will pacify you for the time being. I doubt there will be any moritorium on HVCC. FHA will be going to HVCC in January. The "little independant appraiser" will be out of business. Maybe it's my Jersey attitude, but I don't believe this guy for ONE millisecond

Freddy Duarte: (November 19, 2009 5:11am)

Excellent job gentleman and bravo for your commitment! I spent yesterday spreading the word through my realm of influence to sign the petition and stay tuned. Great job!

Old Timer: (November 19, 2009 5:07am)

Frank & Brian... here's the national appraiser registry website of the Appraisal Subcommittee for your pleasure. https://www.asc.gov/content/category1/nr_intro.aspx?id=10

dontreinventthewheel: (November 19, 2009 5:05am)

Thanks for the work guys. When you are working on a "Cure" Please take a hard look at the Hud Roster system and the VA appraisal system. These systems are already in place and are proven. There is no middle management fee and the system works. PLEASE, PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER SYSTEM GETS PRESENTED IS FAIR AND IS REQUIRED ACROSS THE BOARD. Banks are still doing business as usual while the Brokers world has been turned upside down.

EWS3: (November 19, 2009 5:01am)

Thx guys for the entertainment but more importantly your commitment to get out the word and bring it to one of the most out of touch human beings on the planet.

Old Timer: (November 19, 2009 5:00am)

Frank & Brian, here's an alternative of HVCC for you to think about... the VA has required ordering of appraisals through their portal and it has worked very well for years. Also, it used to be the same with FHA appraisals, you (the one ordering the appraisal) have to go to the FHA portal, type in the subject info, and an appraiser would be supplied to you by the FHA portal, based upon locality and experience.... Well, the Appraisal Subcommittee (the GOVT entity that provided USPAP and appraisal regulations) already has in their database EVERY certified and licensed appraiser in the entire country, along with their business location... It is entirely possible to have this govt entity utilize a revolving database based upon location and qualifications and have the appraisal ordering done through their portal for a minimal (if any) additional cost to the consumer and appraiser. With the ordering of appraisers being done through the govt it would remove the ALLEGED pressure on appraisers

Chicago Supports YOU!: (November 19, 2009 4:59am)

Thanks Guys, effort is greatly appreciated! Hopefully it wasn't all lip service, but....they are Politicians, and we know where that leads.

NJDLMKR: (November 19, 2009 4:48am)

Thanks Guys!!

Frank@TBWS: (November 19, 2009 4:43am)

I deleted the Biggest Loser post... That guy is always on here. He's a hater, don't know why he even watches. The new blog system will cure people like him on the site. We had a great time meeting everyone! Thanks SO much for showing up and supporting the cause! Think Big!

Sandy: (November 19, 2009 4:40am)

The dispicable person who wrote Biggest Loser, obvisouly must be a perfect person and needs to stay in movie theaters and never leave, so you could be with your peers. On a more serious note, THANK YOU so much, Brian.I am a mortgage broker in Florida suffering through this Real Estate down turn which has been made worse because of Cuomo. You guys keep going THANK YOU! THINK BIG, WORK SMALL

Jersey Girl: (November 19, 2009 4:38am)

Brian & Frank TBWS: So glad we met last night in NY! THANKS for coming out and trying to change things. Keep us posted on what needs to be done next. I'm glad you were able to get the Daily done after a night in NYC. ;) Hey Biggest Lossers - get a life!

stay put: (November 19, 2009 4:26am)

IT appears you did NOT meet Cuomo. too bad

Ronny: (November 19, 2009 4:20am)

Congratulations on making it happen!! It was a long road from starting to collect signatures to dropping it off and talkign with them for an hour. We all appreciate your efforts! Way to go!

IN HVCC Hell: (November 19, 2009 4:17am)

You guys ROCK!

just sayin': (November 19, 2009 4:06am)

and what would a mortgage-related event be without a trip to a local watering hole??? just sayin'...

Mark Bush: (November 19, 2009 3:58am)

Way to go guys! That's what I'm talking about! Congratulations on a good meeting! Good Luck! and THANK YOU!!!

Big MAc: (November 19, 2009 3:52am)

Nice Job. Don't be too pursuaded with the reception yuo received from professional smoozers, experienced at making everyone feel they care, but really have a different agenda. What is Cuomo's agenda? In any event lets go for something simple like the VA appraisal system, we have been living with that fairly successfully for quite some time. Anyway Congrats and keep up the good work.