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Deedie: (November 24, 2009 4:54pm)

Brian and Frank Just one more thing. I want a response from you as I have never received one!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deedie: (November 24, 2009 4:45pm)

Brian & Frank. I sent you messages where BLOOMBERG NEWS (11/23/09) did you even bothering reading it? The idiot Ag - Andrew has been caught red-handed accepting bribes. Have you even read the article. I like many others signed that petition to get rid of HVCC and I have no intention to accept anything but JUST THAT. You may remove my name if you like but I did not ask for any compromise. JUST GET RID OF IT. I no longer will be apart of this in this forum unless I get an email from you saying OUR MISSION HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED (NO HVCC) signing off until then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Disappointed as HELL. I appreciate your effort but I am not bending!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [email protected]

SouthernCaliforniaAppraisers.net: (November 24, 2009 8:48am)

Contact your Senators! Give them your input on HVCC. Change HVCC, OK, Step #1: Ban AMC's!

Bob the Mortgage Man : (November 24, 2009 8:05am)

I've now seen half a dozen appraisals that have come back from these so called "management" companies. They stink. I'm not saying that it was a bad appraisal, but I could see they were done by appraisers who didn't have all that much experience. Why you ask? Well simple, the only appraisers who are taking on these jobs are the lack luster appraisers who will work CHEAP. Guys that's not what it's all about. I've been in the business for over 30 years, I can tell the difference between a good appraisal and a properly done appraisal but I also see an appraiser who didn't work very hard on the job. I've looked up comps thru various sources that I have and there were sales, comp property, that the appraisers didn't even pick up. Could be they just don't have the resources to suscribe to the various databases they need to in order to get accurate info. I think these appraisal will come back to haunt, not the lenders, but the borrowers seeing their homes at $100K less than value.

Evergreenappraisers: (November 23, 2009 9:11pm)

Alright No Cal Appr, I can't stand it. Gotta chime in at you. I cannot let the rest of the industry believe that an ethical, diligent appraiser's conclusion of value has a damned thing to do with his/her fee. The value is what it is. I do not dig deeper, stick my neck out, or invent value if someone is willing to pay a higher appraisal fee. I do my job right, and I do it to the best of my ability, and if I'm not willing to work for what they pay, I don't take the job. Now, the low appraisals may indeed have something to do with the quality level of the appraiser willing to work for peanuts. Where 'High Roller Hank' was formerly shooting for the stars, he now probably thinks aiming low is the envogue thing. In reality, both are wrong and both are unethical. You do your job right, you don't worry about the 'sticking your neck out' thing. Support your value conclusion with credibility and move on. Don't like the fee? Don't do the work.

Florida App.: (November 23, 2009 8:05pm)

Boycott AI

GA: (November 23, 2009 8:03pm)

You guys need to stop drinking the kool-aid they are feeding you. Wow were you sucked in.

No Cal Appr: (November 23, 2009 7:46pm)

Any of you that think HVCC has nothyig to do with Appraisers, your nuts! It isn;t aimed at appraisers, but it has affected appraisers more negatively than any other RE professional. Do you think all the low valued appraisals is by accident? With the AMC's taking (stealing) half our appraisal fees, why would any appraiser go out of their way to look for any more value than the lowest range? Why should the appraiser stick their neck out and expose themselves to any more liability than we already have? If appraisers are going to have to work for peanuts, the appraisal values will continue to come in on the extremely low end. What ever is done with HVCC, it better ensure the Appraiser gets his customary fee, and NO just because the AMC's are paying $200 or less, that is NOT customary. Appraisers have more liability than anyone in the chain, yet we receive the lowest fees. You get what you pay for.

Big AL: (November 23, 2009 7:45pm)

You can't pussy foot around with these guys in NY. You got to play hard ball. They'll say one thing and boom, do another. Here's a link to keep track of HR2126 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3126. HVCC was bad and always will be in any form. Less is more and USPAP is the supreme bible. Stick with it and you can't go wrong. I wouldn't deal with Coumo, he'll stab you in the back, then go get a Big Mac. Power is his game and you must fight it head on. Keep up the good fight until we get our business's back and our licenses mean something again.

SimpleSolution: (November 23, 2009 7:07pm)

Appraiser Chic-ILL Appraiser-You can add me to the appraiser filing BK club. I filed in April and took a part time job outside of the industry because I refuse to become an AMC whore so I am right there with you guys. As noted before they are pushing the good appraisers out. I have had several of my appraisals reviewed and never once has my value been cut. I have always taken pride in my work and stood by it. My reports pass underwriting with an ease and it is all because I was trained by another excellent appraiser that has also lost his home and filing BK. It sucks...sorry for the complaining but it feels good to know I am not the only one... :)

App: (November 23, 2009 7:06pm)

ILL and Appraiser Chic - Chpt 7 for me coming soon. Not making enough to qualify for Chpts 11 or 13. Chpt 7 you get to keep the house and get rid of credit card bills and all unsecured loans. Hell of a choice they left us huh. My only consolation is the debts I owe 2 of the big 4 too big to fail banks are kind of large lol. Screw em for stealing my career. Good luck to you guys and good night

App: (November 23, 2009 7:02pm)

USPAP - Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice is the lawbook for appraisers. We don't need no stinkun home valuation code of conduct or anything similar. I hope I didn't offend anybody personally, but there were things that needed to be said. Have a nice evening all. Thanks

ILL Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 6:53pm)

Appraiser Chic-Me too. It's all too little, too late. 25 years for naught. Hope I can keep the house.

TheFyouSay: (November 23, 2009 6:21pm)

I agree that the CNBC appraisal fraud take was BS. Why didn't he say the real deal? The reason that HVCC sucks is it costs the consumer more money and hurts the appraisers, consumers and the market as a whole. He should have said that HVCC was started to prevent fraud but the only outcome was it put a hurting on consumers and the real estate market and anyone that has to do with it.

App: (November 23, 2009 5:57pm)

No one would have signed the petition if the petition was to make a deal with Cuomo to revise the HVCC. Everyone that signed wants it gone. If you're thinking of changing the terms of the petition you better get permission from the 120k signers. Don't take this lightly. The will of 120k signers is reversal of the hvcc, not modifying it! You mortgage guys really don't understand the appraisers side of this-you think you do but you don't. That was obvious with the CNBC interview. First thing said was tossing appraisers to the lions with "appraisal fraud" That won't save your ass or get rid of the HVCC. You need our viewpoint in this, you think you already have it but you don't. If you did the consumer would be your biggest concern. I'm thankful for what you guys did but don't assume that you're serving all our best interests. It wasn't an election, it was a petition. I never got an answer-what happened with Rep Millers people? I think that's more important than what happened with Cuomo.

Appraiser Chic: (November 23, 2009 5:46pm)

Appraiser filing bankrupty here....Does anyone know who Cuomo is going to run against? THAT is where the 120k signatures need to be.

Appraiser too: (November 23, 2009 5:45pm)

Does anybody know when the h.r. 3126 going to the next step or who to contact in government for the updates? Tnx

App: (November 23, 2009 5:43pm)

clulessdad : You're not understanding the appraisers side of this. There doesn't have to be anything more than enforcement & having the banks retain liability for the loans they write. The regs on the books for appraisers is more than enough to stop coercion-if enforced. USPAP-Standards or Professional Appraiser Practice. Violate that you lose your license. No good can come from making a deal. None. Revising something illegal doesn't make it legal it just makes it a different kind of illegal. You guys need to wrap your heads around that-HVCC is illegal. Let Congress with the bills they've got going deal with HVCC, don't screw things up by making deals behind the scenes. This is Cuomo's ploy to bury the issue of the HVCC before his run for governor. We can't let them bury it. Besides, 120,000 people didn't sign the petition to reverse the HVCC only to have someone mess with the intent of said petition because they think it's the right thing to do. That would be a betrayal of trust.

appraiser too: (November 23, 2009 5:40pm)

Yes I also think that just by modifiying the hvcc for the "time being" is not going to do us any good, we should only be concantrated on repealing it and NOT modifying it!! At this point I dont think we should settle for anything less then that, I also think if you Brian & Frank still going to go ahead and draft some new resolution that you include a good experienced appraiser in the process for brain storming, since we already learned recently that you guys are not very familiar with the rules/regulations appraisers have to abide by. I would be happy with a repeal of this thing and somebody just enforcing the rules we had. Thank you and good luck!

CAHighDesertAppraiser: (November 23, 2009 4:52pm)

Matt...nice thoughts and all, however, isnt the bank/client collecting the fee upfront from the borrower/homeowner?

CAHighDesertAppraiser: (November 23, 2009 4:51pm)

Matt...nice thoughts and all, however, isnt the bank/client collecting the fee upfront from the borrower/homeowner?

CAHighDesertAppraiser: (November 23, 2009 4:49pm)

Matt...nice thoughts and all, however, isnt the bank/client collecting the fee upfront from the borrower/homeowner?

clulessdad: (November 23, 2009 4:25pm)

App-I agree that the HVCC needs to be repealed. However, there needs to be an alternative to the valuation process. After all, we could get something even far worse than HVCC. If Frank?brian can get dialogue amongst the troops maybe they can come up with something. Unfortunately,I think that whatever comes out, it will be a random order process, which I believe is a restraint of trade. It will still have a wall for communication. Neither of these does benefit to the good appraisers, doesn't get rid of the bad, and still creates problems. You can NEVER enforce any communication lapses between the players in this game. Better communication leads to better valuations. Instead of coming up with a way to create appraisal independence, they should think of a way to get a better handle of valuations, rather than just one person's opinion of value confirmed by an AVM. If yu do that, you will solve a lot of problems, without the unintended consequences.

TXloanstar: (November 23, 2009 4:19pm)

State Attorney General Andrew Cuomo’s 2007 lawsuit against Washington Mutual’s preferred AMC (Appraisal Management Company) eAppraiseIt LLC and I see they are still in Business. What is up with that? WAMU was coercing values at unprecedented levels and We are stuck with a "policy" and the backlash of horrific appraisals and fuming customers. Full steam ahead with Congress and the grass roots approach. These guys in New York will blow smoke at us and make us think they are going to do something. They will nod like they are in agreement,turn around and wink at each other twiddling their thumbs while Rome burns. It's not affecting their livelihood, so what's their incentive? Maybe Cuomo's and staff's initial motivations were altruistic, but admit to the errors. Sorry, I am not getting the fuzzy warm feeling about these guys. they're not on our team and don't care one bit about our industry....

clulessdad: (November 23, 2009 4:11pm)

Just the facts-OFHEO used to run FNMA and FHLMC. After they were taken over into conservatorship, the FHFA was created and now runs them. FHFA was created and is run by its member banks. Only Congress has authority over FHFA. The banks have no intention of letting go of HVCC. And their lobbyists are putting a lot of pressure on Congress to not repeal this windfall. Get on Congress or hit the banks where it hurts, in their pocketbook. Or appeal to Obama. He is supposed to be for the small guy, isn't he?

App: (November 23, 2009 4:06pm)

Frank and Brian I hope I don't need to remind you that the 120,000 people that signed the petition signed a petition for Permanent Reversal of the HVCC. They expect what they signed up for, permanent reversal of the HVCC, nothing more - nothing less. Don't take it upon yourselves to think you're speaking for that 120,000 people just because those signatures are in your possession. Do you think 120,000 people would have signed it if it said we need a revision of the HVCC? No one signed that petition looking to make a deal. No one. No deals. I certainly wouldn't ever consider a deal - I'd feel it was a betrayal to all the folks that signed it. **Love and peace

Matt: (November 23, 2009 3:36pm)

Actual event: APPRAISER (APR): "...I collect my fee at the door - no exceptions." NEWBIE LOAN OFF (NLO): "You can't do that - if you do that we loose all our leverage." (...brief silence...) APR: "Who told you that?" NLO: "They taught us that in class." APR: "Leverage, huh? Did they tell you not to talk about that." NLO: "Whoops, yea, I guess so....." APPRAISERS UNITE!! Get your fees at the door. If the AMCs or Lenders won't let you do that, DON'T WORK FOR THEM! Some one in the AI did a study...... if Appraisal fees kept up w/insurance premiums, haircuts and gas we'd be getting around $950 a pop. You're already working for peanuts and that's real close to the definition of a slave. Benefits? Appraisers: not past due accounts, check clears while you do the report. Loan Officers: No paying for appraisals you can't use. PLUS the big one: When the applicant drops $350 to $550 (-or $?) cold hard cash they tend to stop shopping rates.

App: (November 23, 2009 3:36pm)

I wonder how many honest appraisers and mortgage brokers are filing for bankruptcy. Hmm, the HVCC has added to the foreclosure rate, higher costs to consumers, costly delays, more pressure on appraisers at 50% less fees and more liability, felons owning amc's, and the list goes on and on. Is there anything positive about it for the consumer? It is sure is a money maker for the banksters and their amc's. I guess 1 positive is that it helps those appraisers that couldn't get a job due to poor skills to be fully employed. Kind of like seeing a silver thread in a pile of crap - it's still crap lol

App: (November 23, 2009 3:17pm)

Can you imagine thousands of appraisers and brokers and realtors and irate consumers traveling to NY to protest at his speeches? Out of state protestors for a NY Governors race LOL!!! I'm sure that'd get a few write ups lol. Hello Cuomo's staff - are you paying attention?

App: (November 23, 2009 3:12pm)

Cluless: You make a good point. I suppose he could agree to suspend the HVCC (his blackmail tactic on the GSE's) and agree to have the HVCC go through legal channels for adoption. It is his baby and he still has the lawsuits pending against the GSE's so he still has power over them. So yeah, I think he can suspend it for legal analysis and not lose face. We all know a big man can admit when he's wrong. That might be his best bet. That would only work as long as the HVCC can be a potential fiery political issue. No deals for that sucka. Let him fix what he's fkd up

App: (November 23, 2009 2:56pm)

He can't save face. He screwed up, blinded by ambition. I feel no sympathy at all for the dude. Rock and a hard place is almost too kind seeing how many lives he's screwed up. It's not just the professionals, it's their families too. Tyrant comes to mind. Forcing illegal policies on the largest lenders in the United States is, imo, a criminal offense. I don't care about his intentions. If they were pure the HVCC should have passed all legal due process to make sure it wouldn't harm consumers and it's enaction is in the publics best interest. They've fought every attempt to challenge it's illegality. Too much power for 1 person. Could the President even do this? Probably not without consent of Congress. Tyrant

Arizona Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 2:55pm)

Amerifirst is a large lender in the Phoenix area. They started using Arizona Valuation Management last spring. Bryan Caffrey is the guy who runs this management company and is also part owner of KS Appraisals. Guess what appraisal company gets the bulk of the appraisal orders from Amerifirst? You guessed it. KS Appraisals. How is this not some kind of a violation regarding HVCC? This guy sets up an AMC to feed his own appraisal company! Is this guy taking notes from Cuomo on how to run his company or what. What can the appraisers here do about this type of stuff? This is the type of stuff that the HVCC has created.

No Spin: Just the Facts: (November 23, 2009 2:50pm)

Cuomo is old news gang. We have bigger challenge with the people at Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) running Fannie & Freddie. They have dug their heels into ground and said they can not find anything wrong with HVCC. We must be working the legislative path, AND DEFINITELY NOT ONE TIED TO NEW CONSUMER PROTECTION AGENCY!! OFHEO is not going to back down and admit they instituted an anti-consumer policy.

App: (November 23, 2009 2:47pm)

He should have gotten rate alert lol. He can't have his involvement with an illegal policy exposed because if he did he'd have to expose every complicit firm/entity involved (FHFA head Lockhart and others at the GSE's). There'd be investigations. No, he can't afford that. I think we got him. Joe, those 120k signatures can be used in more than one place lol. It's not like Cuomo's seen them and now they're no good and now we need more lol. Good posts btw

clulessdad: (November 23, 2009 2:42pm)

With Cuomo's ties to the Kennedy's, I am sure he is a DEM. Wouldn't these 120K signatures be some great fodder for the REP leadership in NY? But frankly, IMHO I don't see Cuomo as having any influence on the repeal of HVCC. How can he save face with any change to HVCC? For all you newbies out there, FHFA controls FNMA and FHLMC. The banks control FHFA. The NAMB lawsuit was dropped beacuse FHFA, in an unprecedented move, said they would NOT honor any court action that ruled against HVCC. Lawsuits won't work. And time is on their side, so a lengthy court battle would drag on and on. Appraisers are going out of business quickly. Only Congress or Obama can get this repealed. Just my 2cents.

No Spin; Just the Facts: (November 23, 2009 2:40pm)

http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Davidson_Edward_38972848.aspx Now you know the rest of the story. Hope TBWS gets to work on this ethical issue of Andrew Cuomo and Ed Davidson.

Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 23, 2009 2:39pm)

I think bringing his opposition up to speed on this entire situation would be like a smoking gun! I'm still for the class action. Look what happened to the Army Core in Louisiana for the whole Katrina situation!

No Spin; Just the Facts: (November 23, 2009 2:35pm)

Has enyone noticed that Cuomo sued the country's largest AMC, eAppraiseIT, alleging they inflated appraised values at the instructions of Washington Mutual Bank. The result, Cuomo was losing his case so he pointed his suing guns at the failing Fannie & Freddie (GSE's). The GSE's quickly capitulated to implementing Cuomo's HVCC. Here is the twist of reason. HVCC puts Cuomo's alleged guilty parties, AMC's & Banks, in control of appraisals, each making more money at the expense of consumer. Since there is no logic from the purpose of original lawsuit, stop AMC & Banks from manipulating appraisal results, why did HVCC get implemented? Understand New York Attorney Generals are known for using legal muscle to gain self serving power and obfuscate their law breaking activities. Cuomo was Director of AMCO Appraisal Management Company's Advisory Board and beneficiary of its revenues. He is in bed with Ed Davidson, CEO of AMCO. http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Davidson_Edward_38972848.aspx

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 2:31pm)

see what happens when you say the same thing three times.....it still doesnt make any sense.

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 2:29pm)

App.-for it to haunt him he has to have a conscience.You assume too much. methinks we should have contacted his opposition for the governors race,that would have got under his skin and he would have ensured a more direct rection to people flying across country to see him,as it stands he dissed B&F and Marc by sending his minions to deal with the upstart TBWS hoi polloi, knowing the expense and time expended in the office visit.Still, its a start, now we just need to gert 120K more signatures for the next politician.

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 2:29pm)

App.-for it to haunt him he has to have a conscience.You assume too much. methinks we should have contacted his opposition for the governors race,that would have got under his skin and he would have ensured a more direct rection to people flying across country to see him,as it stands he dissed B&F and Marc by sending his minions to deal with the upstart TBWS hoi polloi, knowing the expense and time expended in the office visit.Still, its a start, now we just need to gert 120K more signatures for the next politician.

Anonymous: (November 23, 2009 2:29pm)

App.-for it to haunt him he has to have a conscience.You assume too much. methinks we should have contacted his opposition for the governors race,that would have got under his skin and he would have ensured a more direct rection to people flying across country to see him,as it stands he dissed B&F and Marc by sending his minions to deal with the upstart TBWS hoi polloi, knowing the expense and time expended in the office visit.Still, its a start, now we just need to gert 120K more signatures for the next politician.

App: (November 23, 2009 2:28pm)

Can you imagine what would happen if the HVCC gets thrust into the spotlight because of his political ambiitions? Omg that's going to be hilarious to see him try to explain that one lol. Frank and Brian, if your "people" are lawyers, be certain that they'd argue to make a deal as that's how lawyers get paid. Sometimes you just got to make up your own mind on how to handle things. BTW, your timing is excellent lol. No wonder Cuomo's people were eager to meet and talk with you and suggest a deal LOL!! Election runners start in January? about 1.5 months +/-. I'm sure Cuomo will start then lol. What piece of work lol. How does one guy get known and despised by so many common citizens all across the country? It's a wonder lol

App: (November 23, 2009 2:08pm)

If he doesn't get rid of it I want it to haunt him for the rest of his political life. Don't make deals guys. 120k signatures say no retreat and no surrender

App: (November 23, 2009 2:02pm)

We got him guys. Don't blow it by reconciling with his people. Stand your ground. We got him by the short hairs. He has to have this settled one way or the other before his run. Stand your ground, make the abomination known as the HVCC legal. He's trying to use you guys to bury it as an issue. Come on, you see it don't you? How about if I say pretty please ;^)

App: (November 23, 2009 1:58pm)

Cuomos running for Gov 2010. He doesn't want the HVCC coming up with it's 120k signatures to be used by his opponent. He wants to bury it before it becomes an issue, or settle it on your shoulders. We got him. I hope you guys can see that. I'd insist on making it legal or abandon it. He needs it gone before his run for office. We got him.

ILL Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 1:52pm)

Stayin' alive - Tony in Hawaii has a guest coming to dinner on Thursday that is an attorney that sounds capable of doing a class action suit. Tony says he'll report back on Friday.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 1:40pm)

This guy is a real piece of work...I tell ya http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a9dbulB94DuA&pos=14

Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 23, 2009 1:33pm)

Are there any attorney's out there? I think we need to file a class action lawsuit against Mr. Cuomo for destroying our industry and our economy!

App: (November 23, 2009 1:27pm)

Don't be his excuse to Congress. I can see it now, Rep Miller, we don't have to get rid of the HVCC, I (Cuomo) and the NAMB and some appraisers worked out a resolution that solves all the problems with it. You don't need to pass HR 1728, 3044 or 3126 with the anti-HVCC provision. And since everybodies happy now, it shouldn't have to go through legal due process. These guys are speaking for 120k voters and they've agreed to these small changes that leaves the HVCC intact. Frank and Brian, they're poison - don't play along with them - you're in over your head. Realize and stick with legal channels. I don't want you guys to be accomplises on the new and improved but still illegal HVCC. Force them to either make the HVCC legal through proper channels or abandon it. There's no in between.

ILL Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 1:21pm)

Deedie-Did you contact Karen and Linda? I sent a quick note suggesting they check out Cuomo's impact on the mortgage/real estate industry suggesting that was a big story!

App: (November 23, 2009 1:20pm)

Brian: Others that don't know the situation heard "appraisal fraud"-what the HVCC was supposed to take care of. They might think we need more HVCC! That would be the end of our professions. AVM's would take over as appraisers are all crooks-the ex-pres of NAMB just said so on TV. A different tact would have worked, like consumers costs & upset at how long loans are taking, losing locks etc. My take. Don't do anything with them. Get rid of the HVCC or nothing. Did you guys contact Rep Miller? What happened? You guys really need to separate fraud & appraisal in the same sentence. If Cuomo won't do anything that might give the appearance he screwed up-then screw him. Pursue other avenues. He could be bluffing you know. He knows nobody but the banks like the HVCC. Lay it out, see if he's bluffing. Nothing to lose & maybe everything to gain. It's ILLEGAL! Don't dirty your hands trying to clean it up! You want to get blamed for the next screw-up? Don't try to legitimize it while it's illegal

MortgageBrokerGal: (November 23, 2009 1:19pm)

Deedie: Thanks for the heads up on the Bloomberg article. Just more proof that this guy is a crook. He'll probably get off with a slap on the wrist for this, but he should be prosecuted for it!

App: (November 23, 2009 1:04pm)

Frank and Brian, don't get me wrong, I love you guys and what you've done. Just don't get caught in any back door deals for Cuomo to save face. Stay clean. Sorry about the patriotic post that might offend some here, but the point I was trying to make is this is our country and a government we established with a public trust to do no harm to it's citizens - it's WE the people. HVCC is illegal as long as we the people don't have a say in it's implementation. When we lose that say, then it's no longer a government we can trust to do us no harm. I hate to harp on this but if the HVCC were legal there shouldn't be a problem with it going through the channels of due process of law. Tinkering with it isn't going to make it legal and less bitter to the taste. Don't get involved with them, that's my advice. They know they're wrong.

Deedie: (November 23, 2009 12:56pm)

Has anyone read the artical in the Bloomberg News Service To contact the reporters on this story: Karen Freifeld in New York at [email protected] ; Linda Sandler in New York at [email protected] . Last Updated: November 23, 2009 00:01 EST

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 12:53pm)

I say we issue a challenge to Cuomo to come have a Town Hall style meeting about the HVCC guidelines. This way he isn't on his own turf pushing people around. If he declines we'll rake him over the coals. If he shows up...we'll tell him the way it is. It's a win-win for our cause when word gets out.

Rodney: (November 23, 2009 12:53pm)

Do not back down now, HVCC have to go, it is the biggest rip off I have ever seen, We do not want HVCC in any form. Do not fall for their tricks, they have no concerns, HVCC must go, do not sell us now.

brian tbws: (November 23, 2009 12:53pm)

Hi App, I'm assuming your talking about Marc. I cannot speak for him but I believe he referenced that report to illustrate how ineffective HVCC has been. One of our points in Cuomo's office was the fact that our current system of appraising properties has been in place since the 1960's & the only time we had problems with massive appraisal fraud is exactly the same time Wall St flooded the market with high cost high risk loans. Seems too coincidental. However, as we said on the daily, we need to attack this on both fronts. We are not going to try to work out any "back door" deals, but any negotiations with Cuomo's office is going to come with certain parameters. He will not agree to anything that gives the appearance that he screwed up. I don't think its impossible to accomplish our and there objectives. At this point I ask you to give us the benefit of the doubt & maybe we can set a webinar prior to presenting. I'll have to run that past our guys first.

Frank@TBWS: (November 23, 2009 12:53pm)

There isn't any secret. We just want to take some time to kick some things around. yeah we'll call a few appraisers - don't worry. We'll state what we come up with and let you know, and get your opinions, it's all good. Relax.

App: (November 23, 2009 12:48pm)

Cuomo & his people are scared. 120k signatures strong and they know the tide of public opinion against it is growing. They're scared and that's the only reason to try to compromise and save face. Cuomo's folly. Don't give in. If it's not legal by going through due process to prove it's efficacy in the process, it shouldn't exist in any form. At least not until it does pass the rigors of due process just like any other policy that affects the consumer and the people in a democratic society. Is this America? Or is it captive to self-serving anti-competitive interests? Don't do any deals, let the government and the courts decide. "that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain - that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom - and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

AZ.Steve: (November 23, 2009 12:46pm)

Frank and Brian: With all respect, you guys show real gusto in trying to get things back in order with your visit to Cuomo's office. But don't miss the point of their response which is really a political "dog and pony" show. Don't put much faith on their responses. I attended a appraisal workshop in Las Vegas a few years ago and Andrew Cuomo was the key speaker. I personally had a conversation with him afterwards and asked him several questions that I thought were important to the Appraisal Profession and our Standards we practice by. His answers, I mean all his answers where nothing but a stroke job. Seems his main interest after the speech he gave was being generated between his legs for a couple of sweeties nearby or where part of his travel grope, sorry, group. The man definately was frothing at the mouth and that was according to what my Wife said, not me.

AZ.Steve: (November 23, 2009 12:46pm)

Frank and Brian: With all respect, you guys show real gusto in trying to get things back in order with your visit to Cuomo's office. But don't miss the point of their response which is really a political "dog and pony" show. Don't put much faith on their responses. I attended a appraisal workshop in Las Vegas a few years ago and Andrew Cuomo was the key speaker. I personally had a conversation with him afterwards and asked him several questions that I thought were important to the Appraisal Profession and our Standards we practice by. His answers, I mean all his answers where nothing but a stroke job. Seems his main interest after the speech he gave was being generated between his legs for a couple of sweeties nearby or where part of his travel grope, sorry, group. The man definately was frothing at the mouth and that was according to what my Wife said, not me.

ILL Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 12:43pm)

Brain-Maybe you should run the objectives by the 100,000+ people who signed the petition to eliminate the HVCC and not just a "number of people within the industry".

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 12:33pm)

Brian... is there a reason why the parameters are secret? I am not being inflamatory by asking that. I think your show rocks and so forth...But I cannot think of any reason why there would be "secret" parameters to reconsider HVCC unless they are trying to control the situation or unless they have no intention of changing the most important pieces of this and y'all don't want to disapoint us.;-) I certainly understand burning the candle at both ends and think you guys are doing an awesome job, but we aren't burning a candle...we're burning a stick of dynamite dressed up like a candle. Eventually it's gonna blow up in our faces. We may need to enlist his opponents to help as several of us have said today. Especially knowing he asked for specific parameters and wasn't trying to fix it on his own until you guys gathered up signatures. That means he just did what he wanted to do and now he doesn't want to admit he was wrong.

Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 23, 2009 12:28pm)

Brian, we should not have to satisfy jack with Cuomo's objectives. Bottomline, he negotiated a deal he had no right, authority or jurisdiction to be doing! We have to stop treating him like he deserves respect! The man is single-handedly destroying our economy! You seem to be changing your position on this after a 1 1/2 hour meeting with the enemy camp! It needs to be abolished!

App: (November 23, 2009 12:19pm)

Tell Cuomo's people that the HVCC did not go through the Administrative Procedures Act (APA) or the Regulatory Flexibility Act (RFA) as required of rules issued by administrative agencies of the federal government. That in order for you to even discuss it's viability within their parameters it must first become LEGAL through due process. Why dirty your hands trying to clean up after the crime to hide it - you had no hand in it to begin with.

App: (November 23, 2009 12:11pm)

Brian - you need to keep appraisers in the loop. An appraiser wouldn't have gone on CNBC and hyped appraisal fraud being up - that was a mistake and makes it look like the HVCC is needed. I don't know Cuomo's groups parameters but I don't think people signed the petition to operate on Frankenstein so he looks better. Lipstick on a pig kind of thing. This thing is wrong, it's illegal. He's trying to save face. Back door deals are what got us in this mess - don't go that way. I don't know who your "people in the industry are" but appraisers wouldn't have bent on elimination of the HVCC. There are no alternatives. Maybe you should just tell them that. I say this with gratitude for what you've done but being at the goal line is not the time to punt. IMHO. It's scary to me that someone would even think it's viable within parameters. IT'S ILLEGAL!

Good Old Mr Wilson: (November 23, 2009 11:47am)

Maybe we should all get together and purchase the Appraisal Management Companies from Cuomo's family and friends.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 11:46am)

All Banks have to do to solve this entire problem is sign up a couple of appraisers in each zip code to do second level reviews on appraisals they question. It will allow appraisers to police appraisers instead of some idiot that works for an AMC 11 states away from the actual property. The bank can send the report without the original appraisers name or info on it and request the review appraisers to double check it. This creates a second income stream for good appraisers and adds a layer of protection for the banks. It also weeds out weak appraisers because loan officers that keep getting held up for reviews will not call that appraiser back. This eliminates any reason to worry about someone trying to fluff value because they know another local appraiser will catch them red handed. There is no reason to influence a report knowing you'll be caught. If the appraiser is getting paid by the bank for these reviews they are certainly going to want to do a good job to keep status with them.

Rodney: (November 23, 2009 11:46am)

They prices are outrageous a sfr with a rent schedule in florida just cost me $600.00 thru a mangement company, normally the cosy is $450.00 max. You cannot transfer appraisal from one lender to the next, reason being no lender is accepting a transfer. HVCC is a big rip off for the consumer.

brian tbws: (November 23, 2009 11:42am)

Hi Clueless, We have parameters outlined by Cuomo's office. We need to satisfy their objective while working ours in. I hate to be so vague but at this point we have to. However when we're done we're gonna run it by a number of people within the industry.

elipper: (November 23, 2009 11:41am)

you guys are all coming up with new ways to regulate appraisals. I have an idea, why dont we just go back to the way it was and get rid of the scum in our industry? the appraisal process had worked before the boom for at least 20 years. the bottom line is that an appraiser can put whatever value he wants on the appraisal, but the lender always had the discretion of cuttting it. what was wrong with that model??

Clulessdad: (November 23, 2009 11:41am)

Personally, you can't legislate or enforce morality or ethics. You can't stop people from communicating. Create an appraisal/valuation system which assumes that people will/might try to coerce a result and make it highly impossible to get an inflated value. Any other barrier won't work.

Mark: (November 23, 2009 11:33am)

HVCC - all loans closed should be reported as a RESPA violation to markup. The AMC's are marking up the cost of the appraisal. The HUD shows 375 for the aprapisal report when it is actually 225 and the AMC marked it up to 375. The new gfe has so many holes in it - we need to attack this now! YSP - we need to also attack this. Banks get richer and we ger poorer

App: (November 23, 2009 11:31am)

There doesn't need to be an alternative to the HVCC clueless. Just enforce the regulations on the books already. We don't need more stinkun regulation, just funds for enforcement. We don't need the HVCC or anything related to it. It's a bandaid for a cut on the elbow that's placed on the finger - worthless. If you can't make the bank behave there's nothing you can do to stop fraud, their greed knows no bounds. Because of the bailouts we know the banks greed hasn't been allowed to die. Kill it, put it out of our misery. Get the bank out of the process is the only fool-proof way imo. Make the homeowner the client and any appraisal done by a state certified appraiser portable anywhere. I have to go take a break, this stuff aggravates me too much lol.

Appraiser Chic: (November 23, 2009 11:23am)

KEEP IT SIMPLE. Set up a State Tip Line for LOs/Appraisers/Agents, to be reported annoynously for frauduantly conducting any business practice. That way no one will have to worry about losing future bussiness and maybe everyone will think twice about being underhanded. Appraisal orders should go back to being ordered the way they were. Problem solved. One other suggestion. Make comp searching a REQUIRED class that all parties have to learn the same guidelines, so everyone can look for themselves before it gets to the appraisal being ordered. The realtors try to use comps that are not even close to the similar guidelines the appraiser has to use. The agents start the process by counting basements as square footage... then here we go...the contract goes to the LO then the Appraiser is under a great deal of pressure to make the deal work when there are NO real comps. The Agents need to know what the Appraiser can use before setting the offering price. EDUCATE and REPORT.

clulessdad: (November 23, 2009 11:23am)

Frank Brian-How will you go about the process of coming up with an alternative to the HVCC?

honest abe: (November 23, 2009 11:16am)

Beware ProTeck valuation services, I did 2 PBO's almost 90 days ago and have still not paid.

App: (November 23, 2009 11:07am)

IMO appraisal fraud starts with the people behind it and the reasons for origination and engagement of the appraisal. If the line through to the appraiser is biased or fraudulent (HUD-1 and the numerous amc stips, lowest fee gets it, etc) the appraiser is not independent and If there is any fraud in any part of the process there is fraud in the result. Fraud is up 100% thanks for amc's. Appraisers need their independence. Carry on lol

ILL Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 11:07am)

There has been pressure on appraisers and lack of independence since 1988 when "Direct Endorsement" was enacted. And when lenders were not allowed to charge application fees and loan officers became responsible for appraisal fees for deals that did not close, all hell broke loose. The solution is a system like VA has and FHA used to have back in 1988. Rotational rosters. 10% mandatory reviews. And yes, the equivalency of complaint departments where bad appraisers/appraisals were investigated. But AMC's and HVCC are not the answer. Perhaps a state by state roster which is paid for with a minimal fee per appraisal paid for by lenders. Appraisers are paid at time of service by borrower. And no reassignment of appraisers (FHA has gone down this road so appraisals not making value get tossed and a new appraiser assigned. Big mistake on their part.) With this policy appraisers can communicate with lender, realtor, and whomever needed for pertinent info. Just an idea...

Owl Tee: (November 23, 2009 11:03am)

App - there is a lot of momentum to fix the damage that HVCC has caused. Cuomo's doors would have been locked, HR3044 wouldn't have 121 cosponsors if that wasn't the case. The question is how to fix the damage - through reform or outright abolition of HVCC. Count me among those who wished HVCC was never implemented. Having said that, I think the route being followed - "burning the candle at both ends" makes sense. But the approach needs to be constructive and objective, otherwise doors that have been opened a crack will slam shut. I think NAMB/TBWS is on the right track here.

App: (November 23, 2009 10:44am)

Owl Tree - The HVCC is illegal. If it has to go through a comment period and be voted on it'll be gotten rid of. It makes no sense knowing what we know now to punish the appraisers and brokers for the banks mis-deeds. Cuomo was wrong and he'll never admit it imo. joecolorado had the right idea, give the 120k signatures to his opponents in all his election races as a weapon. Cuomo, the glory hound, rushed a sorry solution that doesn't address the problem, just his myopic view of events and we're all paying for his short-sightedness. It has to go. It's 100% hurting the consumer compared to the way things were and appraisal fraud is up 100% considering the banks don't care about the consumers interests, only their own. AMC's are the illegitimate demon spawn of fraud. Can you tell I hate them? lol

MONTEREY CNTY APP: (November 23, 2009 10:42am)

Thank you TBWS and staff for going through all this trouble to fight HVCC. May your business prosper and make a lot of money. THANKS.

Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 23, 2009 10:34am)

Guys, absolutely love the show! You're truly awesome. I can't help but feel you caved with Cuomo! The HVCC needs to go away period, end of subject! We need to prosecute the guilty and stop persecuting the innocent! Let the awesome mortgage originators, appraisers and realtors who are still standing, go back to what we do best! By accepting anything less than the abolishment of the HVCC with Cuomo, he's got us on the ropes! I'm afraid with all of the problems our federal government is faced with, this will be back burnered if they feel it can be handled in some other fashion!

Owl Tree: (November 23, 2009 10:29am)

App - I've been against HVCC and the AMC construct since day one. If NAMB and TBWS go back to Cuomo and manage to scrap HVCC/AMC, I'll throw a one-man Carnivale in front of my office. But if not, I think going back there with a list of reasonable suggestions that empower the consumer, support small business, and address loan quality is a constructive approach.

Manny: (November 23, 2009 10:28am)

What time frame are you looking at? How much longer do you think appraisers can survive on 'BOBKESS"?

TO ALL APPRAISERS: (November 23, 2009 10:22am)

If an AMC asks you to remove the invoice from your report, be sure to add a comment which states your fee for the appraisal. Also you should state that the AMC is responsible for all state federal and local taxes for fees which excede the appraisal fee. This is not an option. RESPA requires lenders to disclose all fees, this need to include appraisal fees as well as AMC's fees. If this difference is not disclosed, the lender can not disclose fees acurately, and you may be in violation of not dislosing your actual fee. This would be the deffinition of a junk fee. **IMPORTANT**

App: (November 23, 2009 10:21am)

@ Important: Ms Doty of Fannie said the IVPI (hot line for appraiser complaints) would be instituted this month. Not here yet. They don't want to hear complaints. Matter of fact it's been morphed into something not in the original intent of the HVCC. If they really were concerned about consumer protection the IVPI would have been instituted with the HVCC as it was supposed to be. Still waiting... They don't want to hear any, any complaints. Almost as if it's un-American to complain about the banks or the way they conduct their illicit businesses. Banks need to go back to being savings and loans, they can't control their greed - bring back Glass-Steagall.

bob: (November 23, 2009 10:20am)

Way to go Steve!!! To hell with AI.. Boycott them. I give up my SRA 10 years ago. They did nothing to resisdential appraisers except push AVM's., strip our appraisal data then sell it to Fannie and the TAPP banks that control 70% of mtg. lending in the U.S. then what to paid us 50%. Monopolist

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 10:13am)

Pegasus....Exactly!!! Remember folks people are very angry with the banks, congress, and the job market. That is our only leverage. If we can get someone a little bigger to look at what is really going on with all of this stuff it would make a big difference. I tried to catch whatever was on Fox and Friends last Thursday regarding this. It must have been the shortest conversation in history because I watched almost the entire show and did not hear a peep. Did anyone see it? Either way we need to call Cuomo out on the carpet for this and for his cheesy response to the petition. He just said whatever he had to say to get them out of the office. I can't prove it because I wasn't there but that's what it sounds like from where I sit today. If he had said we'll have a meeting, put this HVCC stuff on hold for 90 days and get more feedback...that would have been an actual answer. He aint gonna read those complaints.

App: (November 23, 2009 10:11am)

Owl Tree - another misconception. The HVCC has nothing to do with appraisers, it's for the lenders. The onus is on the lender to be HVCC compliant. Software could do the job of an amc, buffered and HVCC compliant. amc's are useless, they don't address the real problem and they and the HAVOCC need to go, no if's and's or but's. How can this travesty be allowed to continue??!! Is this not America ? Next the Constitution will be re-written to "a government of the banks, by the banks and for the banks". Oh wait, it already is. I'd bet that change would fly through lobbyist controlled Congress. Oh wait, it already has. I guess all that's left is to change the actual wording. Wonderful (sarcasm)

**IMPORTANT**: (November 23, 2009 10:08am)

I have said it before and I'll say it again. Replace AMC's with an appraiser hotline. If any value influence is discovered, then the appraiser could call and have the person who influenced the value required to respond why they pushed the value. If an appraiser is found to be out of ethical HVCC guidlines, they should have to respond as well. It is a simple, cheaper solution. As of now, our only choice is to call the Dept of Corp. securities and financing. They are too busy to follow up on complaints though. I called about a loan officer doing fraudulent loans 3 years ago. They did nothing. Last month, three years later, the loan officer was arrested and sent to jail for using other peoples credit to purchase three homes for himself. These homes were purchased after I had made the complaint.

Owl Tree: (November 23, 2009 10:01am)

(Continued from below)... Imagine if 10 or the best appraisers from your area got together and formed an AMC, with a central processing contact to act as the "originator buffer"...that's a structure that I could do business with. The best case scenario, IMO, is to grant all appraisers the opportunity to obtain "HVCC Certification", take a Boy Scout pledge, and do their jobs. Then, allow me as the loan originator to recommend an appraiser, but give the final decision to the borrower for selection. My suggestion for local owner-operator AMCs is only if my preferred recommendation is a political non-starter.

pegasus2005: (November 23, 2009 9:59am)

Absolute power corrupts abosolutely. This HVCC disaster started because Big Title Co which owned big AMC wanted more Biz from Big Bank, so Big Bank squeezed Big Title to step on the appraisers at Big AMC to fall in line with Big Bank's target appraisal values. If Big Bank was unable to influence the AMC mgmt who holds the financial keys to survival for the appraisers working for them, then there would be no influencing values. Therefore, the controler of the AMCs controls the appraisers' livelihood and is thus able to influence values. And if the AMC is bank owned, it is even a more incestuous conflict of interest. The best way to protect appraiser independence and fair market valuations is to enable appraisers to work with all banks, mortgage brokers, AMCs (yuck) etc so that when they are pressured they can 'just say no' without jeopardizing future orders. Banks & lenders should be prohibited from ownership interest in AMCs OR appraisal companies due to excessive influence.

Owl Tree: (November 23, 2009 9:55am)

JoeColorado - I'm with you on that, trust me. As far as I'm concerned, I have a better chance of getting reliable service from the Wizard of Oz than an AMC. But, if HVCC and AMC's are here to stay (as seems the case), then a constructive approach would be to reform them so that they come as close to what we had before as possible. The main reason for the existence of AMC/HVCC, as far as I understand, is to keep reports flowing to crooked appraisers from crooked loan officers. I think there is a way to modify HVCC/AMC's so that the Dudley Do-Rights can save face, but at the same time, force AMCs to become honest service providers, rather the tools of the Bailout Boys. That's the reason I'm pounding on the notion of consumer choice and appraiser independence. If the consumer were given the keys to the ordering process, and if AMCs were controlled by local appraisers, it would be something I would accept....and realistically, it's probably the closest wil return to the old days.

App: (November 23, 2009 9:55am)

LOL po'd - free market where business is allowed to succeed or fail on it's own? Ahh, those were the good old days. I wish we, as appraisers, could set aside a week to not work and at the end of that week demand to be paid full fee at the door from the home-owner. Simple solutions that benefit our professions seem to escape the grasp of so many, and appraisers can't seem to stand up to defend themselves. Maybe because none of the appraisal organizations that you pay fees to will. Sad. AI went to the Ct legislative meeting to protest the Dodd/Crowley initiative because it would get rid of amc's. So glad I never paid to join them. If they're non-profit, why did they raise the diminimus limit to a ridiculous $250k. Their AI Ready format to dice and slice appraisal reports and return the signature as if nothing was changed. There is no independence or loyalty in what they and the other organizations do. We're on our own. Thanks for your efforts Frank and Brian.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 9:53am)

Now that's what I'm talking about APP. Cuomo puts the work on our desk? WTF is that? He needs to revoke the HVCC guidelines and wait for other people to come up with a solution. Not leave a crappy program in place and tell us to bring him ideas that he "may consider". We need to make some serious noise now because he is clearly placating over 100 thousand people that signed that petition. I appreciate all of those that did and especially the folks that took it to NY. But I feel Cuomo insulted their efforts. So let's bring the noise. Send this story of Cuomo bouncing this onto our plate while his crap work remains in place to Rush Limbaugh and let him blast Cuomo's office for us. He'll do it just on principle. People are losing jobs and businesses left and right and this crap is part of the reason.

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 9:45am)

Owl Tree-you have some good points and thak you for those, but AMC's need to be removed from the picture.They cloud the issue and are cash cows for the AMC owners ONLY.Talk about the fox watchin' the hen house.....

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 9:41am)

OWL TREE-appraiser owned AMC's are still AMC's. They have been created 'cos they are lucrative, not because of appraiser altruistism.EVERY tier of beaurocracy between the appraiser and the borrower adds cost,mostly to the borrower,but also to the appraiser.Who do you think is going to pay for the HVCC watchdog?App'r license Fees WILL increase,Colorado has already increased their license fees to obviate the loss of appraisers' fees for 2010.The appraiser is stuck between a rock and a hard place,there is NO alternative.I think perhaps B&F&Marc should also have given copies of the signatures to Cuomo's political opposition,I bet then,Cuomo would have met them at the door to try and stop them from giving the opposition mud slinging power.I still need to see some video....any links?

Owl Tree: (November 23, 2009 9:40am)

One last suggestion - local appraisers should be able to form local AMCs, and there should be a reasonable, fair, and quick process whereby these AMC's receive the HVCC Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval. Allow originators to order directly from these AMCs, and require lenders to accept their reports for review (i.e., get rid of the Wheel of Fortune AMC/Appraiser selection process).

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 9:39am)

HMMMMM We need portability, accountability, and competition.... This reminds of something but I can't quite place it....

App: (November 23, 2009 9:38am)

HVCC is illegal & allowed to stand because the big banksters want it to. Criminals are telling our government what to do-Constitution and our God given rights be damned. It's almost as if everyone in America is to blame and the banksters are faultless. If we don't do something about the HVCC and the banksters cartel we're all going to end up slaves to endless debt. No joke. Does anybody see anything else? It's getting worse each day. Too big to fail must end. Break them up. Reading Business Week headlines "The New Threat From Wall Street" "Taxpayers are taking another hit as strapped local governments fork over billions in fees on investments gone bad." It seems the way the contracts were written the hedge funds get paid whether or not the investments go bad. We're getting royally screwed & it's not just us, it's a burden of debt that will last generations and that debt is growing every day. China is going to own us. Wake up, write to Representives that care. More cowbells! Make noise

GFE Delay Confusion: (November 23, 2009 9:37am)

Please listen to what we said on the video about HUD's new GFE and the 120 days. HUD is delaying the enforcement of the rule. It IS going into effect, but they are not going to wipe out every lender that isn't prepared for it. So, they are giving some grace on the enforcement of enacting the new GFE. In essence, a delay. What this means is that SOME lenders will be ready to go come Jan 1 and they will be expecting you to deliver the new GFE, however, some will NOT be ready and looking for the old GFE. So BE CAREFUL come Jan 1 as some lenders will not be set up to take the new GFE, and if you send it to them it will KILL your deal. Hope this helps clear it up. Frank

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 9:35am)

Hey Houston...You talk how you talk and I'll talk how I talk. I do not care if you take me seriously. I am not running for office. I'm pointing out that we are lucky to have Frank and Brian bring attention to this but that Cuomo is just going to waste our time and do as he pleases based on the answer he sent them back with. The rest of the things I said were just clownin around. Don't be so overly hypersensitive. It's a blog. Not the Congress floor...oh wait what am I saying...that's the biggest joke out there. Besides if you're going to use the name PO'd ya have to put a little stank on your rhetoric. I'll change my name to Candy@$$ tomorrow and tell tales of rainbows and puppies if ya want. That will get the appraisers back to work and save YSP for sure.

Frank Garay: (November 23, 2009 9:32am)

Owl Tree - You are very much in line with our thoughts on this.

Frank Garay: (November 23, 2009 9:31am)

This is simple. We are dealing with what's been given to us right? HVCC needs to go away completely - nice thought. How do we do it? The only way to remove HVCC is through Congress at this point. So, we work through Congress to get that done with bills and amendments. On the other hand, IF we can convince Cuomo's office to make some changes to the code that makes HVCC more tolerable for now, why not do it? Again, burning the candle at both ends. Pretty clear IMO.

Owl Tree: (November 23, 2009 9:28am)

Frank and Brian - here's my $0.02 on suggestions to reform HVCC #1 - The appraisal should be in the customer's name, not the lender's name. Modify existing regulations to REQUIRE that lenders accept all HVCC-compliant appraisals for review. Note: this doesn't mean they can't counter /condition / deny a loan based on the appraisal....it just means lenders MUST allow for transfers. #2 - Allow the borrower to order directly from a "certified HVCC" (whatever that eventually means) appraiser. Give back responsbility and accountability directly to the appraiser, and give the borrower back consumer choice. And for everyone who says "they'll be too much pressure on the appraiser", I can only respond with "have we learned nothging from this mess?". #3 - If #2 is a non-starter, than allow the originator to select the AMC....this would allow us the ability to use an AMC with the lowest costs. Personally, I'd use an AMC that I knew was appraiser-owned, over some corporate racket.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 9:22am)

Trixskier...It's not always the nicest words that drive the point home. If we don't look at the big picture and realize what this is really all about then we absolutely will be out of business. I was just teasing the guys I razzed earlier. Not "really" being mean. I was clownin them is all. But I stand by my points. We need more fire power than a petition. We need someone that agrees with us that actually has the authority to counter what Cuomo did. How dare he put appraisers and brokers out of business and then "tell" everyone the way it's gonna be at Fannie and Freddie when he was i big part of the problem in the first place. We did not vote on this? It's a violation of our rights in my opinion.

Midwest Broker: (November 23, 2009 9:21am)

Thanks Brian & Frank for your efforts with the HVCC. It sounds like FHA is adopting HVCC after January 1st and supposedly keeping it in place no matter what happens on the conventional side. Am I wrong?

BCinSD: (November 23, 2009 9:11am)

Brian, Okay, we know you can read fast. PLEASE slow down so we can actually hear and listen to the very important information you are saying. If you go back and listen to today's show you will see what I mean. Thanks for all you and Frank do - you guys rock! Oh, and have a Happy Thanksgiving!

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 9:10am)

You said it App I tried to tell 'em... not sure if anyone has woken up yet. Bringing Cuomo a counter offer on HVCC will just empower them to continue down the same path. People need to rise up and call these people out on the carpet if we want any real results. Everyone knows what just happened yet the media and everyone else are just sitting back completely confused about who did what to who. They're getting off scott free while we get blasted. We need a DA from another state to negate this crap from Cuomo and his pal's. Who the hell is he to issue this directive without doing his homework first anyway. It's not like he did a great job when he worked for HUD. Like Journalist Wayne Barrett of the Village Voice has said that during his time as HUD Secretary, Andrew Cuomo "gave birth to the mortgage crisis" by pushing for further gains in homeownership. The fox watchin the henhouse again around here...this clown has got to go. No more Liberal loons in charge of housing.PERIOD!

elipper: (November 23, 2009 9:06am)

i thought the HVCC has an expiration date. is that correct? if so, does anybody know when?

Wog: (November 23, 2009 9:04am)

Well..perhaps I'm jaded, but I don't trust Cuomo's henchmen. They may seem conciliatory and even contrite. But, they are politicians and like that great classic from the O'Jays, "they smile in your face" Backstabbers! that is why not only will I continue to support and push for legislative action on this matter, I will also make every effort to bring these hodlums to justice. this was never about consumer protection. It was always about power grabbing and cronism. To that end I believe that Cuomo will continue to do what he feels will feather his nest and the nests of his associates. I belive that change will come grudgingly and at great expense and effort on our part.

FLA Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 9:02am)

I am from an appraisal family, my dad an MAI since early 1970s and now retired. I am an associate member. What a disappointment the Appraisal Institute has become. To me, HVCC has destroyed our small family business and only source of income. I received AI literature and it's as if the HVCC does not exist. Prior postings are right - AI has totally abandoned the small independent appraiser. I cannot believe mtg. brokers, home builders and NAR are now the ones fighting for the survival of my business, while AI is eerily quiet.

wayneO: (November 23, 2009 8:57am)

HVCC is here. It is not going away. Get used to it guys. And work within the guidelines. Everyone is to blame, from the customer to the end buyer of the AAA bonds. Everyone knew what was going on. Now we have to pay the price. The HVCC is and elimation of the YSP is going to distroy what we had. But we will survive just on "not as much money" as we used to get. We just have to keep on keeping on. There is no hope of going back.

Trixskier: (November 23, 2009 8:57am)

PO'd- Not sure I supoort the way your are talking to people but your overall point is pretty good. Everybody in this idustry is to be blame just some "ALOT MORE" than others. The ones that are suffering the most are the least to blame. Hence the relevance of PO'd point. HVCC needs to be done away with. The deeper it's teeth sink in the more damage that will be done. And we are sooo close to not being able to reverse it. Until it gets back to the appraiser being allowed to collect and set his fees, to freely submitt his credentials to any potential user of his product and let that user decide if he/she is worthy then the independent fee appraiser is done. All other parties involved in the RE process can still market themselves to anyone and let the market decided whether they are worthy or not. The appraiser cannot and currently his credentials mean very little in the current selection process. I will say it again, "YOU CANNOT LEGISTLATE MORALITY".

HoustonLO: (November 23, 2009 8:56am)

Po'd - From your posts it seems like you have a lot of experience and a good amount of business acumen. But the way you express yourself leaves a lot to be desired. Your using 6th grade foul language. Clean it up a little bit and people will take you more serious.

DAG: (November 23, 2009 8:56am)

Midwest Guy you were doing well till you hit #3, Scoop, you are living my life, and Mike, we all wish we were living your life. I'm still trying to close a $500,000 purchase after nearly 6 weeks, 80% ltv, 811 credit score, 9% dti. Property is located in a "rural" area and the appraiser, who traveled an hour to get there marked it "suburban". To this appraiser everything is suburban because they are so far in the woods. Lender wants all comps within 5 miles. I'm one box away from closing a loan. HVCC HAS TO GO AWAY. PERIOD. No new ideas, no compromise. I want to order appraisals from reputable appraisers and do business with reputable lenders. End of story.

App: (November 23, 2009 8:50am)

Blaming the appraiser at all for the meltdown is saying that appraisers forced banks to make loans. Yeah, sorry - didn't happen. No one twisted the banks arms, they didn't need to. Their greed dictated their needs and their 40 to 60 to 1 leverage dictated their means. Appraisers and brokers are totally outside the real corruption that happened with the ratings agencies giving AAA ratings to junk bonds/CDO's and the banksters boosting production of risky loans with no limits on leverage. Now the states are on the hook to the big banks for defaults with the contracts they wrote. Detroit is devastated. There is no humanity with the big banksters and there is no forgiveness even when they've been bailed out (They also kept their bonuses for their crimes). I'm angry

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 8:42am)

YSP and HVCC go hand in hand. Again, this is not about anything other than blame. Some dingleberry mentioned appraisal fraud earlier. Well, that's true it did happen. But this idea that the banks were duped into taking these deals is a bunch of bunk for people dumb enough to believe the banks are victims here. Face it...if the bank took a fluffed up appraisal it is because they knew they could sell it to someone else. They knew what they were doing. It's the same with YSP. Just because the bank does not have to disclose it to the borrower does not mean it isn't there. It will still be there when they take it from brokers. They just won't be paying it to us. It's a parlor trick. People like Chris Dodd don't understand this stuff. They just get on their soapbox and talk smack because they can.

Govt. Get Out Of My Life!: (November 23, 2009 8:32am)

You guys are now officially in the bureaucratic maze; telling you to come back with more info. is the same thing as telling your kids to go outside and play with their toys - in other words, go do anything, just leave us alone. HVCC is here to stay - have you EVER seen ANY govt. sponsored program or dept. that has been eliminated? While your at it, why don't you try to get fannie and freddie eliminated as well, the true root of all the problems in our industry.

Sean: (November 23, 2009 8:28am)

I love what you guys are doing with HVCC!! How about taking on the YSP issue with the same zeal? It is CRAZY that brokers are the only ones forced to disclose YSP. How is that possibly justified? As much as I dislike HVCC, YSP is the bigger issue in my business. Maybe others feel the same.

Willy: (November 23, 2009 8:25am)

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 6:40am) How do we get paid at that point where the borrower is not on site,may not be in town or even in state? Joe - you take credit cards don't you? I LOVE the idea of getting paidf at the door every time....just like a home inspector. That would be a HUGE bonus for our industry.

AZ.Steve: (November 23, 2009 8:23am)

Bob's right. A.I. has not been "The Appraisers Friend" for quite sometime now. They have become a political arm of our business with knot heads that have either done very little actual appraisal work or haven't been in the field for many years. They all boast about their hi-fi credentials but when it comes to practical common sense there is NONE. A.I. is run by a bunch of people that are WAY overpaid and only interested in their political goals and contacts. They couldn't care less about me or any other appraiser scraping by to try and earn an honest living. In other words my opinion: lower than Whale dung. I'll never support them or their functions.

NW guy: (November 23, 2009 8:19am)

All this talk about HVCC, I can say it has not cost me a deal. The HVCC appraisers have usually matched the comp checks I have done. I think alot comes to play that lo do not do the homework prior to getting an appraisal.

Deedie: (November 23, 2009 8:16am)

SF Big Dawg: There is already appraisal boards. Have been and they are overwhelmed in my state with all of the fraud.

MortgageBlues: (November 23, 2009 8:14am)

HVCC will NEVER work. The biggest problem with HVCC is the very fact that mortgage brokers are not allowed to select or talk to appraisers. In the past, I have always been able to select top quality appraisers on behalf of my clients and discuss any issues with the appraiser. What is wrong with that? This reminds me of that Tom Cruise movie, ‘Minority Report.’ In the movie, the police had a special ‘Pre-Crime’ unit and people were arrested and prosecuted simply based on mind reading. The precogs were reading the minds of people and the pre-crime unit arrested everyone thinking of committing a crime even before any actual crime was ever committed. In the end, they proved that thinking about committing a crime does not necessarily lead to actually committing a crime. I for one am offended that HVCC was created to put a wall between a loan officer and an appraiser. I do not work with crooked appraisers and I do not need a wall between me and an appraiser to keep me honest. Why not require states to enforce the laws already on the books? Prosecute appraisers, loan officers, builders, etc. if they violate laws. Most of the crooks inflating appraisals and committing fraud left the business when sub-prime loans went away. Why punish everyone trying to make a living or obtain financing in this tough housing market just because only a hand full may commit a crime?

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 8:12am)

Mama-so thats what is real...not the broker sitting in an ivory tower pontificating about fees that dont affect them and that they have no knowledge about as they apparently believe the guff the groups you use tell you.get real.get the fee breakdown from your groups and then LISTEN to almost ALL of the appraisers contributing on this site.ALL ARE COMPLAINING about fee reduction AND pressure.Regs are already in place to punish the offenders but were not implemented as Laws have no teeth and addding fuel to the fire by statements with "get real" at the end of it is an insult to all honest hard working professionals. pull your head out of the sand, take a look at the # of brokers lost in Colorado-4500 LAST YEAR(50%).Appraisers are not far behind wait until your "groups" pointing fingers, decide that you are expendable/too honest,then you can comment.AND LEAVE MY FEES ALONE...you dont have the right to discuss them.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 8:11am)

Hey look it's the really hot AE from Indy Mac with a huge stack of pizza's....and she's coming into our office...in a bikini...sweet!!! Ohh...the good ole days...

App: (November 23, 2009 8:07am)

Cuomo is either misguided, in collusion or downright criminal in his forcing the HVCC on the GSE's. He thinks the problem is the appraisals & if you search his history, he thought that way for quite a while before. I don't know who turned him onto that train of thought, but as we now know, that isn't the problem. The HVCC doesn't address the real problem it only addresses the symptom. Like the 5 blind guys in the parable, 1 feels a leg & says it's a pillar, the other feels the trunk & says it's a tree branch, the other feels the belly & says that it's a wall, and so on. The story is used to indicate that reality may be viewed differently depending upon one's perspective, suggesting that what seems an absolute truth may be relative due to the deceptive nature of half-truths. In Cuomo's zeal for recognition he had a hold of just a portion of the problem & acted on his erroneous perceptions. Think he'll admit he's one of those blind men? HVCC has to go. Frank knows, enforce existing regs!

Mark: (November 23, 2009 8:04am)

How about we focus out attention th ethe elimination of the YSP for the Brokers? Why are we the only ones that have to disclose our income and then give it back?

YSP - I care: (November 23, 2009 8:03am)

HVCC - WHO CARES when you have NO YSP some day soon...you ALL seem to be missing the point.....

bob: (November 23, 2009 8:00am)

The appraisal institute sold out all the appraisers in the U.S,. They are not interrested in the small independent fee appraiser. They got in bed with all the big banks. We currently have no organization that is looking after our interest. AI maybe is a commerical organization. Sad

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 7:59am)

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid Colorado. Yes...there were some problems with appraisers and brokers. That has always been true. But it is not what caused this mess. You need to get real. There should never have been products that created the opportunity to lend to people that can't show income, had terrible credit, no down payment, no asstets etc.. The banks created the products under pressure from politicians because of CRA ratings and so forth. They did it to themselves. They should have been doing a better job reviewing the appraisals, income, astets etc. Follow the money...who had more of a vested interest in the housing boom? Goldman Sachs or some local broker and an appraiser?? They made billions you fool. They wanted this crap paper...there was a thirst for it and they didn't care what happenned down the road. They knew they would get away with it. How? Same inner circle of people I mentioned earlier.

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 7:57am)

Colorado Mama, if the groups you are working with dont get a piece of the appraisal pie then they are the only ones I have heard of.EVERY AMC that I know of and that has contacted me to work for them,charges fees,whether its a $10 processing fee or a reduction in the actual appraisal fee.(Up to 60%reduction)Take a look at what appraisal fees are charged by your groups & try and see what the fee the appraiser actually gets,you may be surprised.Most AMC's demand that the fee invoice NOT be included with the report....I wonder why?I havent changed my fees in 25 yrs.Now I have to fight to get those same fees I set in the 80's.I have more work to do on each appraisal and the liability is greater,& I cant talk to my client,ALL of the advertising budget spent over the last 25 yrs is money wasted.The AMC can blackball me from ALL of their clients in one stroke with c**p reviews from c**p inexperienced reviewers and there is absolutely NO appeal process for reinstatement.

CA Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 7:56am)

Fannie Mae's own Mortgage Fraud Program has found that inflated values are a minority of the misrepresentations involved in mortgage fraud. for 2007 originations, 7% involved inflated property value. Misrepresented borrower income was 31%, misrepresented borrower liabilities were 28% and misrepresented occupancy type was 15%. 2008-2009 originations follow a similar pattern. So, there hasn't been rampant appraisal fraud, the rampant fraud has come from the borrower, ie stated income loans! Get your facts straight before condemning an entire profession made up primarily of hard-working, honest people. Find the facts at: https://www.efanniemae.com/utility/legal/pdf/fraudstats/fraudupdate1009.pdf

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 7:48am)

Yeah...Midwest...that was a completey **ckin stupid idea. We are all now dumber for having heard it. Sign some other guys report? WTF is that gonna do? Now go sit in penalty box and feel shame...

A little common sense: (November 23, 2009 7:45am)

To Midwest Appraisals: How about if you put your name on my loan application and become responsible for it. I didn't think so. I am not a licensed appraisal so how would I know everything in your appraisal is legitimate? What if you paste a picture of one property with the description of another. I don't have the MLS to look it up. Dumb idea, and I'm not sure if you get paid directly from the borrower how that changes anything since I sent you anyways.

Colorado Mama: (November 23, 2009 7:42am)

This is patently untrue and I am a lender. Granted the banks created the programs but there was rampant fraud in most of the US with appraisers coming up with a requested value, not accurate and the brokers shoving people into stated 80/20's that were created to not require people with 100 page tax returns to not have to present them. The program was never intended to lie about income. The stated income was to be accurate. Brokers buried those people alive. You are fooling yourself if you don't think every aspect of the business contributed to the problem. That is why it was such a massive disaster. All parties from the borrower that knew he couldn't pay to the bankers playing the odds game of default, contributed to the mess. Bankers won't accept other appraisals because in their interpretation, they cannot guarantee that appraisal was ordered to HVCC standards. The groups I work with do not take a piece of the appraisal fee pie. Get real.

CT LO: (November 23, 2009 7:39am)

Hey M&B: A 420 Fico w/100% financing on a Stated Income deal sounds like you just had a visit from the Bear Stearns rep touting their latest portfolio product... boy, talk about turning back the hands of travel!!!

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 7:39am)

Hey Mike...do you work at "Fantasy Land" Bank?

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 7:35am)

Hey Good time...quit your whining. jeepers creepers you sound like one of those morons on BSNBC. Typical appraiser..defensive when you aren't even attacking the guy. I was attacking the idea that Cuomo will even bother listening by pointing out that all of these new changes and crap are fixing problems that did not cause this mess. It is the politicians way of placing blame so they can continue to do as they please. The idea that Cuomo or any of them give a hoot is ridiculous. If they did they would be going after the real people that caused this mess. They aren't. Why? Because that's their inner circle of pal's. You know who should stop talking to each other..Lobyists and Politicians....Special interst groups and Congress...I was not attaking you...maybe the agents a bit...but that's just for fun because most (not all) of them are complete moroffs.

Mike: (November 23, 2009 7:34am)

I have been one of the top lenders in the coutry for the last 8 years and it has been business as usual - I am still able to close purchase and refi loans in 2 weeks, FHA purchases in 4 weeks...with no problem and am following all guidelines and have never had any complaints about what I do or how I do it. HVCC and the new GFE / HUD rules just keep everyone lese inline - and also have ahd no problems with appraisals...but anywaqy, enjoy listening to you guys.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 7:25am)

Last point... The HVCC guidelines clearly state that the borrower is allowed to take the report to another lender. Many banks now refuse to allow this. Why? More money for their AMC. Remember folks...brokers and appraisers did not cause the housing crash. Banks and their greed caused the housing crash. The HVCC guidelines are nothing more than an attempt to place blame. Look at the inflamatory remarks Chris Dodd made about brokers. That was just a big dog and pony show to save the hides of his buddies and contributors. Andrew Cuomo is just placating us by saying they will listen. They won't. This entire thing is a result of the inner circle sitting in a room and deciding who they wanted to blame for this mess. It is not about solving the problem. Appraisers and loan officers worked together for a million years without crashing the housing market. And banks can turn down appraisals any time they want They know this in Cuomos office. They are solving the wrong problem on purpose folks

Frank@TBWS: (November 23, 2009 7:20am)

That was supposed to say with "little" enforcement..

Frank@TBWS: (November 23, 2009 7:19am)

Sure blah blah blah... HUD says they are not going to strictly enforce it's enactment on January 1. It's still going into effect, but with enforcement. So what tells me is there is a grace period to get your act together, it's essentially, in not so many words... delayed. They just said it in a scary way. We said to BE CAREFUL come Jan 1 cause SOME lenders will be ready and expecting the new GFE, and some will NOT be ready expecting the old GFE. So... make sure you know who is doing what before you submit your loan, because if you submit the new GFE to a lender that is not ready for it, you will kill your deal with them. Hope that helps.

Follow the Money: (November 23, 2009 7:17am)

Cuomo has two agendas (IMHO). First he was on the board of one of the largest AMCs (formerly AMCO- just google Cuomo AMCO)and had friends in the AMC business. This is his way of getting marketshare (it worked). Second is the $24M extortion (IMHO) money Fannie and Freddie are forking over to whom to run the non-existent (Independent Valuation Protection Institute -IVPI) which according to the HVCC will have no authority to do anything. Still Someone will get all that money to "run" the IVPI. Cuomo, Fannie and Freddie are strangely silent on the matter.

blah blah blah: (November 23, 2009 7:14am)

so the new gfe needs to be used by ALL starting jan 1 10, you guys said there was a 120 day moratorium but that is totally inaccurate. i think you need to elaborate on this for the viewers.

SF Big Dawg: (November 23, 2009 7:10am)

So wait a minute you want me as a loan officer to sign an appraisal that was done by an appraiser that the borrower picked and then I am on the hook for it? Sorry Midwest we need to rethink that. Unless you want to sign the bottom of every 1003 that you do the appraisal for and go on the hook for that. I think the issue revoles around "professional" and non professional appraisers and brokers. I think that this show attracts the good appraisers and lenders (brokers)who care and who do a good job. It is the con artists who came in and screwed this all up that are most likely now the same people doing loan mods illegally that caused this mess. Just like the Real Estate industry has a governing board there should be the same for appraisers. This body should be able to take action against their members and in turn would make sure that the appraisers do continuing ed and if there is a concern by a lender on the appraisal they could go to that board. Then the same for all originators.

good time appraiser: (November 23, 2009 7:09am)

Po'd, you don't know what i've been doing for 40 years. you are attacking me and don't even know me. we are on the same team. Can we take the advise of Rodney King for a minute and just get along. IF we put our heads together for a minute we can actually end this thing. I will conceed that it will take a big effort with alot of political pressure; but it is a possibility. There is a lot of support for ending this right now. We've got to harness it somehow and move this mountain. We can go back to cutting each other's necks after we end the HVCC. Thanks for your suggestions.

CV Broker: (November 23, 2009 7:08am)

Midwest Appraiser - Agreed on 66% but LOs can't be responsible - licensing. Everything you state is pre-HVCC - KISS method. Time travel to before May 1 and the homeowner purchases the appraisal and it is portable. Appraisers charge a small reassignment fee to the new lender/broker. It really wasn't broken but those bad apples made us all scapegoats. No Compromises Guys! It has to go away

Scoop: (November 23, 2009 7:07am)

Here's a new one for the HVCC...Appraiser had the flu and never let their AMC know. One week...two weeks...no appraisal. I was harassing the lender and the AMC, but I guess they didn't feel like enough time had gone by to contact the appraiser. LOVELY!!!

PBC,FL Realtor: (November 23, 2009 7:06am)

Palm Beach County, FL is receiving a lot of Neighborhood Stabilization funds, unfortunately, I just heard that some of that money is going to non-profit organizations to buy houses to rent. We have enough landlords, these funds should go to homeowners. Along with that they are getting a discount on the foreclosure properties, sending more competition into an already competitive market for first time homebuyers. Not happy with the use of those dollars.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 7:05am)

Ok...my point is that this is a terrible idea. My reasonable suggestion would be to just scrap it entirely. Appraisers already have an obligation to be honest. They have to do that or they lose their license. If there is a problem it is because the report leaves room for opinion. Fix the actual report so that it has "just the facts". There is no reason to even have the word opinion on the report. Then the bank can review it, look at the pics and decide if they want to lend on it. Fix the USPAP and Fannie Mae guidelines for the report so the appraisers can't possibly be infuenced and it doesn't matter who talks to them instead of all of this ridiculous high school drama and crap.

Lender / Realtor: (November 23, 2009 7:05am)

Now with the new TILA requirements, HVCC is not the only regulation that could limit portablity of appraisals. The new TILA requires a "waiting period" prior to ordering the appraisal. Most correspondent lenders will allow your companies application documents to meet their TILA requirements, so it is not an issue for correspondent loans. Most brokered lenders will not allow for your disclosures to act as their disclosures; & you have to register the loan with them and wait for their "waiting period" to be done before you order the appraisal....and that is where the non-portablity issue comes into play with TILA. Assuming the HVCC portablity issue is behind us, UNLESS you register the loan with multiple brokered lenders (causing borrower confussion) and wait till ALL their "waiting periods" allow you to order the appraisal; you will have to order a new appraisal as you won't be TILA compliant in the lenders eyes. You may want to address this when speaking with your elected officials.

NYAPP: (November 23, 2009 7:03am)

Thanks guys for all your good work. One concern - I thought you had said you had a scheduled appointment WITH Cuomo, did he stand you up???? He is the last person I would trust to do anything for us, you have to go back to square 1, why did he do HVCC in the first place?....it benefits all his AMC buddies (i.e. Harvard alumni). Even without HVCC mandatory the damage is done, the banks will still go through their AMC's voluntarily - there will be no rule that the AMC's will go away. And appraisers will still be screwed by their low fees. Sorry to sound so negative but as far as appraiser's concerns the process is in place for the banks to make extra $$$ off our backs and I do not see that part going to change.

Double D: (November 23, 2009 7:02am)

Thanks guys for all your help and all the helpful information you provide to our industry. Stay strong and keep up the fight on HVCC and all other obstacles that come our way in the future.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 6:56am)

Here is the solution. When the appraiser comes out to your house have your wife give the guy a great big steamer and you hand him a bag of cash. Then your value will come in nice and high. If you don't need the value to be fluffed up you can just pay him the 350 bucks. What? That's how they do things in DC aint it?

Noel Cookman: (November 23, 2009 6:54am)

Great job. But, please TAKE NO PRISONERS on your follow up! Don't be fooled by that "interested look" politicians/bureaucrats give. They do this to soften you up. They hope you will understand THEIR reasons for THEIR folly. There is no excuse for these "unforeseen consequences." There's a cure for that - common sense gained by professionals on the front line of the industry you seek to regulate. What a concept! Remember, even the intent behind and basics of HVCC are flawed. It cannot be fixed. It must be repealed. We already have a solution for the "problem." Authorities should prosecute wrong-doing and the industry should continue revoking licenses of violators. Politicians and bureaucrats always seek to create a reason for their existence. Very rarely are there good ones. But "fixing things" is a common tactic. They say "look, I fixed that." In reality, "it won't broke to start with."

HoustonLO: (November 23, 2009 6:50am)

Brain and Frank...didn't get a chance to thank you both for the INCREDIBLE job you are doing. Keep up the good work!!! You have made huge strides from the grass roots. Very proud of you.

AZ.STEVE: (November 23, 2009 6:49am)

Chris: Appraisal Institute's involvement in drafting the HVCC was acting as an "advisor and consultant" according to the information I received on the net, during it's planning stages. Articles indicated that the A.I. was "heavily" involved in a consultant position. OBTW, A.I. office that was "heavily involved" just so happened to be located in ------ Chicago. I say Hhmmmm???? Why am I not surprised.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 6:48am)

Good time appraiser...You clearly have not been watching what has been going on in DC for the last 40 years. If it is not in the interest of someones campaign contributors it aint gonna get done. We can put a "realistic and reasonable solution" in front of them as an alternative and some other douche will come and twist it back in the favor of banks and the AMC's that they own. Look...HVCC sucks but it is not about you, me Frank,Brian or borrowers or homeowners. It's about shifting the focus off of the fact that The banks sent their AE's out to the broker shops, pushed their crazy products, underwrote the loans, reviewed the appraisals, closed the loans, funded the loans, bundled the loans, and sold the loans. We are all scape goats to take the focus off of Wall Street. Have you noticed that maybe one person has been charged for corruption or a crime in this entire mess? Why? If one of them goes down they will sing like a canary and politicians will go crashing down with them.

TD Hawk: (November 23, 2009 6:47am)

Sorry boys, "reasonable" doesn't stand a snow balls chance in Congress. You need to shoot for "illogical" or "just plain stupid" to stand a chance!

HoustonLO: (November 23, 2009 6:46am)

Southloan - I assume you are referring to the NAMB when you refer to National. You are do nothing but adding to the problem when you cancel your membership to national. You reduce funding the NAMB needs to pay for attorneys and legislative battles that are necessary on Capitol Hill and Congress. Marc Savitt is a product of the NAMB. Need I remind you the NAMB is the organization that started the fight against HVCC, not the NAR, not the appraisal institute not the NAHB. In addition, to loss of revenues that are so vitally important with the loss of your membership, by leaving you also reduce the number of members the NAMB represents further weakening their ability to argue of behalf of a large number of professionals. Your actions are not to be commended as an example. Get involved with your local chapter, if there isn't one, join the state chapter, start a local chapter. Paying a couple hundred dollars a year is the least you can do. Get involved and don't Monday quarterback!

Dudly Realtors: (November 23, 2009 6:44am)

PO'd: You nailed it dude! The agent tells a Buyer that a lenders Doc Prep fee or Processing fee is too high. Are you kiddin me? And then advises them to go and use "their" Lender, whom is Wells or Chase or BofA, who are all 60-100 days to get a deal through U/W. Look, you Realtors need to worry about your part of the transaction and stop trying to throw Lenders under the bus. Isn't it funny those same Realtors, who like to tell you that the yhave been in thius Business for 25 years, stil can't write an FHA or VA Contract.. LOL

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 6:40am)

Midwest,seems mostly good ideas,however I dont want the originator telling me what needs to be put in or taken out of a report for them to sign it.Borrowers paying at the door seems to be an excellent solution,but what about purchases?How do we get paid at that point where the borrower is not on site,may not be in town or even in state?The answer is there we just have to find it,perhaps just saying no to pressure and booting rinkydink offenders out of the profession may be an avenue we could consider.

Midwest Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 6:34am)

Here is your solution to HVCC. There are plenty of laws on the books to police appraisers. We don't need more. Also the primary reasons appraisers push value and/or work in an unethical fashion is because they are concerned they 1. wont get paid if the deal doesn't close and 2. could lose future business. So how about this... 1. All appraisals are to be paid by the homeowner directly at the time of inspection. (Then the appraiser is assured of getting paid regardless of their final opinion) 2. Appraisals are owned by the homeowner and they can bring them to any financial institution in an attempt to get a loan. 3. Make the loan originator sign the appraisal and be responsible for its content. (This will eliminate the incentive for loan originators to shop for value and work with number hitter appraisers. Since they are liable for the report and its content they will only want the most experienced and reputable appraisers working on their files...not the standard AMC flunky).

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 6:33am)

Chris-The Appraisal Institute and The American Society of Appraisers appear to be promoting the HVCC.They are not concerned about the individual non member appraiser,they are looking to protect the interests of their members by ensuring the industry "prefers" licensed AND designated appraisers,which elbows out all others,so dont expect ANY help from them.In addition the AI promotes their pdf format which also removes the appraisers signature(which is a separate pdf file)in a transferred appraisal report,which puts ALL appraisers licenses in jeopardy,and remember if the appraisal gets altered by an unscrupulous weasel and your signature can be manipulated back onto the document,then its your appraisal.

good time appraiser: (November 23, 2009 6:33am)

PO'd, none of this is a waste of time. You just fight the fight, you never know where one battle will lead you. there are multiple battlefields in this effort. which one will you stand on? How about some suggestions? This effort will fail only if industry participants let it. Pitch in friend.

PO'd: (November 23, 2009 6:25am)

It's a waste of time talking to Cuomo. He has been involved with shady real estate dealings for years. He has no idea what he is doing. Or does he? You may want to remind him when you go back that WAMU and their appraisal management company destroyed lives all over the country because of their corruption. The resulting foreclosures are a big part of this mess. Real Estate Agents are not innocent in this mess either..but look at his contributors. You think agents will have to change their ways? Or will they continue to suck 6% equity out of the market on every deal? Sorry Frank..but Agents are overpaid and most of them are the weekest link in the transaction. No offense agents. But a 40 hour class and access to the MLS do not make you the next Donald Trump nor should it entitle you to bake in $18,000 in fees on a 300k deal while instructing the client to shop the loan because of the $350 they got charged for processing.

good time appraiser: (November 23, 2009 6:25am)

I'm the worstest speeller; sorry about the post below

good time appraiser: (November 23, 2009 6:24am)

Alt HVCC proposal. Let's get to brainstorming. » Have FNMA issue licenses to every LO who originates a loan to go to FNMA (FHA and Freddie could also jump on). Make comp checks a violation of that license, and hold L/O's and appraiser's feet to the fire when a problem is discovered. we all know that day to day buisness will still find a way to get done (it's happening now in the HVCC world; is the appraiser operating free from any pressure now that HVCC is in place? NO!) but at least it will give Fannie, Freddie and FHA something to hang their hats on for the sake of appearing that the problem of lender pressure is being addressed. This is exactly what the HVCC is, the appearance that something is being done about lender pressure, forget about the hundreds of other problems it causes...Licensing L/O's is already happening throughout the country. This could be a good alternative to getting L/O's back in the buisness of finding and builing the best team possible to close loans in a timely and professional fashion, therby creating an advatage in the marketplace...The best will rise to the top; isn't that what America is all about?

Chris: (November 23, 2009 6:21am)

I want to know where the heck was the Appraisal Iinstitute in all of this?

Sean: (November 23, 2009 6:19am)

I appreciate your efforts on behalf of our industry. I also applaud the increased professionalism of your daily video. It has evolved from a daily rant, to something very useful.

Jersey Girl: (November 23, 2009 6:13am)

B&F: I'm glad you guys got back safely! Thanks again for all you've done so far. Keep us in the loop and let us know what help you need for the next steps! :)

Ezradams: (November 23, 2009 5:58am)

Brian and Frank, When you decide to sit down with Mark, please include us (American Guild of Appraisers) in the discussion. Also, you may want to check this link from the New York Times today. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/business/22loans.html?pagewanted=1&em Again, it was great meeting you guys in New York. [email protected]

ed: (November 23, 2009 5:33am)

I hope they kissed you.

Big Mac: (November 23, 2009 5:08am)

tmfg has the right idea and I like your comments about contiuing this effort on all fronts. Cuomo will be more responsive if the political winds are blowing in our direction. Keep it up guys.

tmfg: (November 23, 2009 5:02am)

I know that king cuomo is the cause of all this BS, but my question to you is why are we not speaking to senator/congress? king cuomo is a nobody from ny state who wants to be in the limelite so when he runs for governor/president that he can say, look what i did for you minions. he's trying to control the entire US and he's done a pretty good job of that thus far, but he's only the ag of ny. not the president...yet?????

SouthLoan: (November 23, 2009 4:11am)

Hey, you guys are amazing! I’m just blown away by the fact that you have done (on your own, while running your business) what nobody else has even tried. Congratulations and thanks from us in Internetland. And speaking of nobodies, where has NAHB been in all this? Sending the Past President? Was this not important enough to send the Big Guns in? Maybe the current president and board members? Have they even tried to rally their troops? I shudder to think how much we have paid in dues to the national office in the last 20 years to get nothing but a “Strategic Withdrawal” in the lawsuit filed against Fannie/Freddie over HVCC. We canceled our memberships when they did that. “Strategic Withdrawal”, isn’t that what teenage parents use for birth control?

joecolorado: (November 23, 2009 3:37am)

Sorry guys,U exceeded yourselves,thank you very much for doing that,but it looks as though its snowing in CO AND NY....Does anyone have a link to the media? I couldnt find coverage & I would like to see any video.So Cuomo didnt actually tell B,F & Marc that there is a problem,his staff(sacrificial lambs that they are) may have however put him in an embarrasing position by admitting SOME faults in HVCC,created by their boss....not to worry, when it hits the fan they can be fired to save his face.(They were acting independently outside the scope of their authority)NO POLITICIAN worth his salt admits an error in judgement.....NONE(that also takes honesty).They wont last 5 Mins in politics if they do,as their opponents will have a field day expounding on the fact that there is a doubt about competence due to endorsement of errors. BUT,thanks for your outstanding effort,its a start and you guys created and helped illustrate the discontent.

Anonymous: (November 23, 2009 3:36am)

I have still not heard anything that was talked about regarding the fee's. I now have to work , oh say 15 hours more a week just to make what I made (excluding the splits with my own firm's appraisers) 1 year ago. I don't mind working but what I cant's stand is that somewhere (appraisers on this site) there is an appraiser with 10 minutes of experience who will under bid me by $50-$75 dollars. These 10 minute experienced appraisers who I still question based on reviews of there license numbers (all getting cert's in the last 2 months's prior to HVCC) if they actually had the required time to be qualified.

Anonymous: (November 23, 2009 2:52am)

The only depressing part of that update is the fact that these problems were "unforeseen" by Cuomo's office. If they had just flipping LISTENED to anyone in the business, every one of these problems was being predicted by a wide consensus.