How Do You Feel About a Global Bank Levy? It Could Happen! 11.24.09
Existing Home Sales Soar! A Global Bank levy??? Yep, it's on the drawing table as you read this. The perception of home values is far from reality. Brian Klemmer with a pre-Thanksgiving tip for us.
Rate It! :
Alternate Player
ThinkBigWorkSmall
Related Videos
How Do You Feel...
Post HVCC Meeting...
Cuomo's Office...
HVCC Update From...
HUD Delays New GFE...
HVCC Petition...
No Bailout for...
Origination's in a...
Fannie Mae Allows...
New Tax Credit...
Countrywide Exec's...
The Bail Out Banks...
URGENT ACTION...
Another Stick in...
Appraisal Fraud up...
App: (November 26, 2009 8:53pm)
Petitoniers reject Coumo plea bargain. Saying, we don't negotiate with terroists of the financial system. Illegal policies can not dictate the supposed good will of the government. Heard in the background is the growing swell of support for Cuomo's opponent. ** the guy is psycho
App: (November 26, 2009 4:08pm)
Spare no quarter for tyrants
App: (November 26, 2009 3:36pm)
This guy is a psychopath - he studied law to find ways around it. If we don't stop him when we can, he will wreak untold havoc
App: (November 26, 2009 3:15pm)
Be sure in going for it that your NAMB lawyers want to play fair hahahahhahaaaah
App: (November 26, 2009 2:51pm)
Someone that studies law so he can find ways to work around it for his own benefit and the benefits of his cronys. Sure, you guys are on a level playing field for negotiations LOL!! Maybe you can come back with some refrig's to sell to the eskimos - LOL!! Way to go!! Get me a big enough freezer so I can bury myself lol
App: (November 26, 2009 2:42pm)
The banks, not too many years ago, tried to get into the realtors biz. NAR fought them off. But, consiering how insidious this is, do you think realtors have a chance? Considering by the time they get to realtors, after swallowing the broker business, of course.
App: (November 26, 2009 2:27pm)
YSP - ain't that a b*tch. How long before there's mortgage management companies? Realtor management companies. Bright future
App: (November 26, 2009 2:21pm)
Sorry tired, I find inspiration, I'm writing a book, where I can and thought I was alone. I didn't realize my posting was stopping others from posting - is that really possible? So much for your claims. Anyway, glad to know the blog isn't closed ;^)
Tired of App: (November 26, 2009 7:17am)
App.. you've made your point loud and clear. Now can other people use the blog please.... geezzz... I'm tired of reading your overzealous tirades. We get it, we get it, kill HVCC.. you made your point. goodness sakes, give us a rest. You're making this blog worthless to others.. I cant wait till they can regulate it properly. Now you've got HVCC tied to the creation of the earth for goodness sakes. You're coming across as a virtual nutcase.. give us a break.
App: (November 26, 2009 12:45am)
Emphasis on peace
App: (November 26, 2009 12:44am)
The world is fragile - respect that. Be peacefully unrepentent for your choices.
App: (November 26, 2009 12:33am)
Before the creation of the world there existed beings who flew and felt their sole purpose was to praise God night and day. God is wonderful and they didn't know any other way to express their gratitude for their existance. Their population exploded and the older ones, on top, got tired. They petitioned God for a place to put their feet. No Answer. God's emissaries were there and said be patient. Patience was easy. 3 more times God was petitioned for a place to put our feet. No real response. It occurred to the leader that the only way to get God's attention in this was to declare war. They were answered. The earth is the result of that declaration of war. If we don't take care of it we lose. Hell is having no place to put your feet. I have more to say but let it rest at this, you get nothing for being whimpy
App: (November 26, 2009 12:27am)
Before the creation of the world there existed being whose sole goals was to fly and praise God night and day. Their population exploded and the older ones got tired. They petitioned God for a place to put their feet. No Answer. God's emissaries were there and over a very long time and 4 requests - there was no other choice but to declare war. The earth is the result of that declaration of war. If we don't take care of it we lose. Hell is having no place to put your feet
App: (November 26, 2009 12:20am)
Matt: They are diluting our money by smoking the printing presses. That is a tax. When your house was worth $200k and due to an excess of money it's worth $180k. That is a tax without your permission. That $20k goes into the pockets of the money printers. There is no honesty in their machinations. They can't raise rates to strengthen the dollar and they won't till 2011. Read about hyper-inflation. Till honesty is re-introduced into the system our fiat money will float to zero. Put some money into silver, gold is just good to look at. Silver is needed. India is petitioning the IMF for another 200 tons of gold. Gold in in the 1980's reached about $900/ounce. In todays dollars it's almost $2k/ounce. We're not there yet. The dollar is a floating currency based on nothing but confidence. Ever hear of a confidence game? Anyway, without honesty we're going to lose our footing and never have a place to rest our feet again. GLTY
App: (November 26, 2009 12:07am)
Brian and Frank, if you don't feel you're fit to carry on with the heart and soul of the petition to the end, the end of the HVCC, please pass it on to those can. It might be too much of a burden at this point for you, but be rest assured the torch of the freedom you lit can be carried on without you. In earnest and due respect - Ed
Matt,Appr: (November 26, 2009 12:03am)
Bank levy - Bank Levy Hmmmmmm. I wonder...... This would be kinda like mortgage insurance for the banks themselves when they screw up and blow up the economy. So who would pay the premiums -- the tax payers??? (by paying hidden mark ups within higher loan interest rates.....)How creative!! That would never happen! The boys at RESPA would surely catch that just a fast fast fast as they are catching the appraisal fee walnut shell game on the settlement papers nowa days.... Of course this could never happen. We already paying for the last one through Congress and the IRS. OH!! I get it. They're getting worried that we might get wise to the fact that Congress and the President has let them get away with it so many times that they have to come up with a new way to rob us blind. So many fools, so little time. They're getting creative -- we'd better watch out -- they're planning the next cluster thingymajiggeroo.
App: (November 25, 2009 11:44pm)
There's no room for glory grabbers here
App: (November 25, 2009 11:41pm)
Guys, disavow youselves and Marc from the petition if you want to negotiate so we can go make some headlines. It's only fair
App: (November 25, 2009 10:49pm)
OMG - introduce honesty into the system??!! That'll never work
App: (November 25, 2009 10:09pm)
Matt, put the onus for knowing value on the homeowner. There's no reason they shouldn't have a realistic opinion with the internet and free MLS access. Make the client the homeowner, get the banks out of the loop as client. Goodbye amc's. If you've got a Ho that has a reasonable sense of value of their home, no wasted comp checks or time for you and me or the brokers. They want to gamble that their house is worth $20k more than it is, they lose $500.
Matt, Appr: (November 25, 2009 9:48pm)
I still say it'll never stop until Appraisers are allowed to give free comp check appraisals (IAW USPAP) but insist that 1004s are paid for up front. HVCC (and now FHA) has is bass ackwards. Let the Mortgage loan officers fire away in the dark and don't pay for the appraisal if it comes in low. ....... a low appraisal??? Hmmmm Appraisals are just appraisals -- an objective value opinion. Maybe "Low Appraisal" is just banker speak. Maybe what we really have is "Applicant Blue Sky". Yes, right back to the middle ages. The house isn't worth what you'd like it to be? WELL THEN SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!
App: (November 25, 2009 8:54pm)
How do I e-mail you guys? I want to say something to you but not on here. Thanks
App: (November 25, 2009 8:30pm)
WE can still salvage some dignity and make an eye-catching headline. Screw Cuomo and his schemes. I bet he thought you guys were hicks that would buy the "negotiate" thing. I'm glad you guys are smarter than that
App: (November 25, 2009 8:02pm)
The title could be "NAMB Rejects Cuomo's Offer"
or, "Petitioners Reject... " Play it like they're the ones looking for a deal. Make it appear they're on the ropes looking for a way to weasel out. I like it !!!
We don't take sht from anyone :^)
App: (November 25, 2009 7:19pm)
Just had a thought while I was out. Tell the newspapers that Cuomo's offer of reconciliation over reversal of the HVCC is rejected by officials of NAMB. Quote "There can be no compromise as long as the HVCC is illegal. It did not go through the Administrative Procedures Act (APA) or the Regulatory Flexibility Act (RFA) as required of rules issued by administrative agencies of the federal government." Then describe the horror stories associated with it from consumers and professionals and demand it be suspended. Hey, Cuomo's office can twist things so why can't we? It sure would make for good headlines. All those Cuomo office statements that say the HVCC is working needs a beat down.
App: (November 25, 2009 5:09pm)
heheeeh, maybe we can re-schedule for when Cuomo's actually there and then say to Cuomo, face to face, that he's being served notice to reverse the HVCC and dump 130k signatures in front of him. Who knows if he even got the originals? That would garner some headlines. Much more to do. I'm going to have a beer tonight for you guys and your splendid efforts !!
MortgageBlues: (November 25, 2009 4:54pm)
HVCC CALL TO ACTION!! NAMB is doing it right. They have declared all out war on HVCC and they are making progress. I encourage everyone to visit NAMB’s website and heed their call to action. http://www.namb.org/namb/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=275&SnID=2 You do not need to be a member of NAMB to sign the petition or help the cause. We can stand with the people who truly fighting to end the HVCC nightmare.
App: (November 25, 2009 4:50pm)
I have to add one more thing. Please don't think I'm ungrateful. You guys have stood up where no one else would, certainly not in the appraisers ranks. You did what no one else has done and we all owe you a debt of gratitude for stepping up to the plate the way you did. This is your baby and I really don't think you ever had any intention of compromise when you wrote it or when the signers grew daily and the time for delivery approached. Remember the spirit of how you felt when you composed it. The wording is all or nothing. :^)
App: (November 25, 2009 4:26pm)
Maybe separate all consumer comments and pick the best ones to forward to the NY Times?
App: (November 25, 2009 4:23pm)
Couple things, No offense guys but did you deliver the petition on your knees that THEY can dictate the terms of surrender? Are you being influenced by someone to seek out a compromise against the interests of the parties involved here? This is war & the sooner you recognize that the better off we'll all be. Casualties are piling higher & higher every day because no one can admit it's a war. No prisoners & no compromise unless it's on our terms. I'm just hoping we didn't blow our chances to make a real impact by the way things have been handled. I don't think that happened is what's in your hearts. I think you guys are fighters. Take a stand-WE are a weapon against the forces of darkness taking hold. This is no time to be wishy washy. We will not allow consumers & professionals to be held hostage by an illegal policy! I'm telling you, we got him. I don't know who's filling your head with crap about "he'll never get rid of it" bullsht! On to the next plan? Newspapers? Forget negotiate.
MortgageBlues: (November 25, 2009 3:54pm)
APP-That is exactly what I am talking about! We need to make that happen!
App: (November 25, 2009 3:44pm)
Sorry I'm posting again but that was an inspirational post MtgBlues. How do you think the news would take "Cuomo's office served notice. Suspend the HVCC" NY AG Cuomo's office was served notice with the arrival of 120,000 signatures of petitioners seeking reversal of his questionable Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC) delivered by esteemed members of NAMB. Quotes from the petition include thousands from homeowners that have had to pay 2 and 3 times for 1 appraisal due mishandling of their loans by bank owned Appraisal Management Companies." I could go on but I won't. You get the jist. No compromise.
MortgageBlues: (November 25, 2009 3:29pm)
Why in the heck did our HVCC petition go to Cuomo’s office when we could have sent it to NAMB to use for their lawsuit? I wish NAMB would start a petition and ask each signer to include more details about how HVCC is affecting their business. I know everyone has something to say but until we get the media to put the spotlight on the damage being caused by HVCC, we have little chance of making it go away. The media started to pick up on Frank and Brian’s trip to NY when the presented the HVCC petition but instead of showing complete outrage and taking a visible stand against HVCC the boys talked possible compromise. There is no news in compromise! Google HVCC and read the headlines newspapers are publishing about HVCC and you will see they want a battle, a big war against HVCC not some wimpy half ass attempt to work things out. We need to tell America exactly how HVCC is hurting us financially and driving us out of business! And we need to do it now before it is too late to speak up!!!
SoCalApprs2: (November 25, 2009 3:20pm)
Hi all. I signed a petition in support of HR 3044 that will put an 18 month suspension of the HVCC rule. That is what I want. During that time, all of us on this board can then discuss the viability of even having an HVCC rule. All I want is it to be stopped. I did not sign the petition to negotiate. Kill HVCC for 18 months, and during that time pursue negotiating.
App: (November 25, 2009 3:17pm)
They don't have to get rid of HVCC, just vet it through the proper legal channels and whatever remains of the HVCC will be palatable to ALL Americans. The way it should be. Why are they so afraid to do that since it's saving the world from bad valuations and is good thing?!! Could be they know it's corrupt? Ohh yeah. Cuomo seems to have found his niche, playing dirty, just outside the reach of the law. Is that why he became a lawyer? Not to defend the law but to search ways around it to benefit himself? Sure seems that way.
App: (November 25, 2009 3:05pm)
To me, if they want to negotiate they need to do it on OUR terms - not theirs. You do it on their terms the rest of the battle is lost. We struck the first blow against their ivory castle, if they want us to stop, they will give in to our terms. No retreat and no surrender! Take no prisoners! Don't kid yourself - They WILL get rid of HVCC when there's no other choice. They are getting attacked on all sides. OK, I'm seriously done now - Have a great weekend all! :^)
App: (November 25, 2009 2:36pm)
I'm not trying to cause any problems, just trying to protect the guys and make them aware of any unforeseen adverse circumstances that could happen. The petition was delivered and before they even read the grievances they're offering a negotiation? Maybe they should read and weigh the grievances first before they offer a compromise? It's all very fishy to me. I don't like it and won't support negotiations. I personally think we have Cuomo by the nads and it'd be a big mistake to let go. The HVCC has to go! No negotiations with political terrorists. There is no happy middle ground for an illegal policy until it's been vetted through legal processes it was supposed to go through and proven to be in the best interest of all Americans. I won't settle for less, and I don't think any free thinking person in this country would either. The HVCC is a monster that can't stand the light of day. Any compromise legitimizes it and I won't be a part of it. ***Have a Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!***
United we Stand, Divided we Fall: (November 25, 2009 2:21pm)
Food for thought, Since Namb has some experience in getting this HVCC mess into court, since a judge has stated in the beginning that he can't see any harm in the implimentation on HVCC, now we can show him through this petition of the harm that this code has caused. Also if Coumo wants to meet again, we employ an attorney to represent the constituents of the petition in future negotiations. Rule of thumb, fight power with power. Coumo will blow smoke up B&F ass,and make them feel good and call it an agreement. We need legal representation, the actions or threat of a class action lawsuit were there's 120k constitiuents, or 8,000 appraisers and so on. The petition can be broke down. Also TBWS has a database of emails to start contacting people for money to pay for legal representation. We need legal representation, not a novice to handle the magnitude of HVCC. Instead of congressman and senators we need to petition the attorney general for each state to challenge NY AG
Appraiser too: (November 25, 2009 12:55pm)
I think we need more exposure on this, need to find the right news agency that would be very interested. Maybe somebody that knows what happend very well should contact those Wall Street Journal journalists that were brought up before by somebody?
App: (November 25, 2009 12:28pm)
You need to do some DD real appraiser before you call me wrong.
real appraiser: (November 25, 2009 12:20pm)
App, so 100,000+ agreed to terms and each could sue for breach. You are wrong, thats why its called a petition and not a contract
MortgageBrokerGal: (November 25, 2009 12:11pm)
For loan originators still wondering about YSP, I have an explanation from one of the education seminar sights: NAMB fought hard to keep YSP as an option for mortgage brokers to use to help clients pay their closing costs on a refinance. The change effecting brokers is that on January 1st when we transition to the new Good Faith Estimate, YSP will always belong to the borrower. If the borrower would like to use YSP to pay some of his/her closing costs, the borrower can elect to do this. If the borrower would like to use YSP to pay his/her loan originator, the LO will be required to put the fee income on line 1 of the new GFE. Example: 1% broker fee, plus you’d like to also earn1% YSP. You will put 2% on line one of the GFE and the 1% YSP will be credited towards the LO fee income. When LOs became fiduciaries in 2008, LOs have been required to fully explain any LO YSP income in a direct and honest way with their clients, whether we’re using the old or new GFE.
App: (November 25, 2009 12:10pm)
You're wrong about that real appraiser - it is a contract.
real appraiser: (November 25, 2009 12:05pm)
App; The petition will never be seen as a contract. Everyone knows that in any disagreement, consessions are made, negotions result in an agreement, Be thankful their (MTG BROKERS)not looking out just for themselves. If they fight for choice of appraisers and portability, everyone but the appraiser will be happy, You and I will be screwed and I know this is your BIG CONCERN. but our problem is that appraisers have no lobbying power, Be careful who you bite, once again, I am with you and hope the F&B do not make a deal to suit themselves.
real appraiser: (November 25, 2009 11:57am)
App, OK, then if its all or nothing and NYAG choses nothing, what is accomplished. I want it gone too. Your points are all on the money, except that this is some hammer over cuomos head. I dont think he sees at all, NO ONE CARES, its getting traction, but no where it needs to be, WHY?, because it affects to small a group and consumers are getting hit and moving on. There will be no national outrage, unless the media makes him the poster boy of causing another market collapse. I do not see that happening. Like I said, You have the right ideas that should be persued outside TBWS, you will have lots of appraisers behind you. I believe there should be more groups fighting him/HVCC independently to make a dent. Think about it, NAMB, NAR, AI,consumer advocates and any other faction that sees the damage. You want to lead I will follow, I have tried myself and get lots of support but no follow through from any appraisers. try seeing the other side, an all or nothing choice may end in nothing
App: (November 25, 2009 11:54am)
Look, the petition is a contract we all signed. Do not violate that contract without acknowledging to all involved that what you do going forward is of your own interest& not in the interests of all 120k signatories. I don't know contract law well, but I'm sure if negotiations are done outside of the contract, it can be considered legally a breach of contract. Nuff said. If you want to be empowered to negotiate, start another petition that gives you that power. Simple really. If for some reason they can't fulfill the terms of the contract, then they need to hand it over to those that can. The contract, called the HVCC petition, is inviolable. Surely Frank & Brian knew this when they started it. Why they're trying to change the game & their horses now, in mid stream, is a mystery to me. They know it's wrong, but they must be getting feedback telling them to do wrong-most likely from those that don't understand what's at stake. I have no other answer for this insult & slap in the face.
App: (November 25, 2009 11:41am)
Stay: I know what you guys are going through. Still it doesn't equal what appraisers are going through. Appraisers are the bottom of the barrel in all this & the problems all stem from inability of the appraiser to work within normal guidelines. @real appraiser: How many people would have signed the petition for modification? Not many. I'm not telling anybody how to run the show-just stick to the promises made to 120k signers of the reversal of the HVCC & honor that committment. Nothing more & nothing less. You guys need to understand that this is more than just about fees/appraiser independence, its about a real threat to the American way of life that allowed to stand will only usher in more self-serving policies that adversely affect consumers, the economy & the public. True, the petition is in their hands but they are not authorized to negotiate. If they take it upon themselves to negotiate they have dishonored the agreement & need to acknowledge that they've betrayed the signers.
Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 25, 2009 11:16am)
App- How are we as mortgage originators affected any less than you by HVCC? We are losing deals left and right because of shoddy appraisal reports that are being pumped out by these AMC's. If we're not closing loans, we're not making money! If we're not making money, I'd say we're being dramatically affected! The appraisers that I deal with in my area refuse to sell out to the management companies! They are still able to keep themselves going with VA appraisals, estates and various other avenues!
real appraiser: (November 25, 2009 11:16am)
App, you are really starting to lose me, I am an appraiser who knows that this site started a petition to remove HVCC, this web site may have all industries invloved, but make no mistake, this is not an appraiser web site. No one fought the HVCC until they saw how it affected them afterword, NAMB was the loudest voice but no support from NAR or even AI(which helped establish it for their own agenda). Now you want to tell TBWS how to run the show, I agree that F&B should fight to GET RID OF HVCC as originally stated, But you have this thing that they have to do what you say. The appraisers are not big enough or loyal enough to one another to prevent this or stop it after it started, like one poster said "getting appraisers to unite is like herding cats", it wont happen. You make great points, but this is their show and if they fight it their way, you will have no voice whatsoever. I agree with most of your points, but honestly, you should be leading your own charge-I am with you on that
CaSpectator: (November 25, 2009 11:02am)
Senor RE & SoCal-Are you guys OK. Is there something wrong with you? Being an appraiser is a profession. You obviously have no idea how much time money schooling, training hours and effort goes in to the appraisal profession. Yes we can easily go take a state exam and be RE agents but why when something has unfairly and illegally been taken from us??? Go ask a doctor or a lawyer to just give up their profession and become nurses or paralegals and see how well it goes over with them. Again you guys obviously have NO IDEA as to what is involved to become a licensed real estate appraiser...
App: (November 25, 2009 10:53am)
Please show where I stated that appraisers are the only ones affected ! I didn't. I'm not that stupid. Read my previous post.
Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 25, 2009 10:49am)
App- Buddy you need to take a step back! How can you come out with such a ridiculous statement as "appraisers are the only ones affected by HVCC?" We've ALL been horribly affected by the HVCC in this industry! Realtors & title agents Us mortgage people as you seem to view us have much more to contend with than just HVCC. Try dealing with the implementation of MDAI and a million new RESPA changes as well! Consider yourself lucky all you've got is HVCC on your plate! How are we not affected by HVCC when our purchase and refinance transactions are crashing and burning because of the inexusably inept individuals that are working for next to nothing for these AMC's?
App: (November 25, 2009 10:32am)
Clulessdd: All the problems experienced in the lending process can be traced to the appraisal and amc's - correct? Did you have the same problems with appraisers before HVCC? I didn't say they were the only group affected, I said they were the most affected of any of the groups. All you have to do is look at any good appraisers bank account. See, you have it wrong. All you do is help determine the scope of work involved with the process, you have absolutely nothing to with the valuation. The appraiser is not biased or the advocate of any entity. You've got it wrong- I don't want you or any broker to negotiate when my livelihood is involved. You have no understanding of the appraisal process in the same way I have no understanding of what you guys have to do. At least I don't have an overblown opinion of how well I understand the brokers processes lol (no offense, but it is true)
App: (November 25, 2009 10:23am)
You guys that are suggesting negotiating with the devil are not looking at the big picture, it seems you're looking for a quick fix and satisfaction now. No, no, no. See the big picture of what's really at stake, who are the ones most affected and the dark reality that this type of anti-consumer legislation, that can't be challenged in any court of law, may flourish if negotiations are allowed to legitimize them, even a little bit. Don't sell out the future for satisfaction now. This is nothing less than a political terrorist and hostage situation with the ramifications that these type of anti-capitalistic coerced self-serving mandates perverting public policy to the detriment of the consumer and the American public will continue.
clulessdad: (November 25, 2009 10:23am)
App-You had me agree with you, all up to your last post. Appraisers are NOT the only group to influence the appraisal process. Brokers, lenders, real estate agents all are impacted by the process. You can control the appraisal itself, but not the process to provide a defensible valuation methodology. The two are TOTALLY different concepts. This valuation process involves EVERYONE involved, not just appraisers. I also would not want my livelihood dictated by appraisers, whom many do not understand the lending industry. Remember the appraisal is just one person's "Opinion of value." Your words not mine.
App: (November 25, 2009 9:59am)
Appraisers are the ones most affected by the HVCC. Appraisers are the only ones that have the right to suggest "fixes". In this case, considering it's the whole population of the United States being affected with a potential for this type of anti-capitalist self-serving law/policy being enacted again and again, there is no fix except to get rid of it. You mortgage guys need to step back and let the ones that really know the problems deal with it. HVCC is an abomination that needs to go - no if's, and's or but's about it. The line has been drawn as set and stated in the petition. Don't cross that line. Appraisers are the ones most affected and we are the only ones that need to determine how this should go as it's out future and livelihood that's been most adversely affected. I will not hand over the reins to my future to someone that does not realize what's at stake.
App: (November 25, 2009 9:49am)
not so clulessdad - when the HVCC is revealed as the scam it is, investigations will reveal how it got there and how one man can screw up an industry so totally with an illegal policy. Miller act needs to go. Even the President doesn't have this power. Yea, sorry, but an alternative drawn up by a broker would never work for appraisers. I appreciate the effort, but you lack the basic understanding of the appraisal profession and it's guiding laws and principles. You mortgage guys need to stay out of the HVCC and suggesting alternatives to an untenable HVCC doctrine. You guys are smart but you have no idea of the appraisers viewpoint. Don't suggest alternatives when my livelihood is at stake. That is not your right. You are over-stepping your bounds. I appreciate the concern but it's like trying to learn calculus by studying geometry. You guys will never get it. Stop trying to "fix" something that wasn't broke to begin with.
App: (November 25, 2009 9:41am)
Look, as I stated this is more than just about fees - it's about self-serving interests being able to invoke self-serving doctrines on the American public without due process of law. It's poison to the American way of life. It's illegal and can't be challenged in a court of law!! DO NOT LEGITIMIZE THE HVCC BY NEGOTIATING! IT NEEDS TO GO BEFORE MORE OF THESE TYPES OF POLICIES ARE INFLICTED ON THE AMERICAN PUBLIC WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW!! DON'T TRY TO BE A HERO!! IF YOU WANT TO BE A HERO PURSUE YOUR SWORN DUTY AS STATED IN THE PETITION. THERE ARE NO NEGOTIATIONS WITH POLITICAL TERRORISTS. THINK BIGGER. THIS ABOMINATION IS AGAINST THE AMERICAN DEMOCRATIC WAY OF LIFE AND CAN NOT BE ALLOWED TO EXIST IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM. LEGITIMIZE IT AND YOU'VE OPENED THE DOOR TO MORE ANTI-CAPITALISTIC POLICIES. IT HAS TO GO
clulessdad: (November 25, 2009 9:36am)
App-yes-give it to his opponents, but after him, another idiot will replace him, under the powers of the Miller Act in NY. Just like Cuomo replaced Spitzer, some other power. Now if the NAR, NAMB, TBWS and Miller all put pressure on him to admit he made a mistake, that might influence more legislative people to reconsider HVCC. It would all depend on finding the right process, understanding that it won't go back to the way it was either. Build the enforcement into every transaction. I posted a very viable alternative to HVCC to Frank and on this site. If you want I can email it to you. It accomplishes all the desires and adds a slightly different view of appraisals, without destroying USPAP. It may not be the correct answer, but it at least is one way to skin the cat.
App: (November 25, 2009 9:33am)
Brian: No offense, but you position is filled with wishes and dreams. Cuomo's office will never let go of the HVCC! - for 1, You "think" the HVCC will be gone in 6 months. Sorry, you have no facts to back up your claims and it's not even solid conjecture. You're worrying me dude lol. There's no basis in your claims and yet you want to move forward with a new plan despite the intentions of the petition? Honor, it's a hard thing to get but when you lose it, it's a hard life. Honor the will of the people that signed the petition. You want to be an honorable person don't you? Give honor to get honor and honor the peoples will and do nothing more than what's laid out in the petition they signed. Everybody wants to be a freakin hero - leave it alone. Those signatures are Cuomo's kryptonite
App: (November 25, 2009 9:23am)
Clulessdad: I appreciate your mostly impartial view on things. I'm not saying launch a vendetta against Cuomo. I'm saying let him stew in his errors of judgement & pe karma hits & becomes a prisoner of his own unchallegeable doctrines. We need waste no more energy on him & his people. Letting his opponent know of the 120k signatures requires very little effort on our part. For the moment he's the only one that can suspend the HVCC. Leave him alone, he knows he screwed up - let him fix it, don't help him! Certainly don't negate the value & power of 120k signatures calling for reversal of the HVCC by negotiating. We have kryptonite with those 120k signatures. Don't blow it by making a deal. Honor the original intentions of the petition as an all or nothing. We won't stand for less than it's suspension. If you make a deal you might throw a monkey wrench into the good things Rep Miller & his people have in play already. We're late to the party, let those that were there 1st handle it.
brian tbws: (November 25, 2009 9:15am)
Hi Mortgage Blues. I think its possible to address that issue while skurting the amc's, put the full fee in your pocket, while giving you the ability to determine your own success level as an appraiser. Oh by the way I also think HVCC WILL BE GONE IN 6 Months and that will happen through legislation and building a stronger petition will help on that end as well. Lets do the webinar and work-out the kinks. I think we're all on the same page.
App: (November 25, 2009 9:12am)
Do you remember when I posted this? Where are we in this scenario. Make your moves and conduct your life and your choices accordingly. "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.
Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage."
clulessdad: (November 25, 2009 9:04am)
App- you are right, Cuomo is very bad. I am not sure that a vendetta against him is our goal. We need to abolish HVCC, and with VERY limited resources, this grass roots effort needs to focus only on getting rid of HVCC through channels that can actually get the HVCC repealed. HVCC is now a policy of the GSE's and will be for FHA as of 1/1/2010. FHFA controls the GSE's and HUD controls FHA. Both can be controlled by Congress, not Cuomo. He becomes a sideshow, IMO. Dual efforts with limited resources will spread ourselves too thin. I believe we need to focus on Congressional efforts to beat this thing. And with 120,000 voices someone is gonna listen. Everyone I have spoken with over the last two weeks with Miller's office and the NAR ARE very interested in 120,000 voices. We can do something here, I know we can.
App: (November 25, 2009 9:00am)
This is bigger than just how the HVCC is affecting consumers, brokers, appraisers and the economy as a whole. It's a law/policy that can not be challenged in any court in the US. What if others follow suit in similar unchallegeable tenets and policies foisted on the American public? This thing is dangerous in many ways and I fear a future where this type of anti-constitional and anti-competitive private interest serving loophole legislation becomes the norm. It's a scary future. It's a future of indebted servitude for the people to private interests.
clulessdad: (November 25, 2009 8:43am)
Sorry Frank-I should have said Think Bigger! You already are thinking Big! LOL
App: (November 25, 2009 8:41am)
I am against any plan to let Cuomo weasel out of his liability in invoking the HVCC to the detriment and harm of consumers and the economy. Any pandering to ease his responsibility in the HVCC is a no go imo. This HVCC is a disgrace and it's his disgrace and his disgrace alone. Don't ease his burden in these matters. It's quite possible he's looking to shift the blame by making a deal and, making a deal might just help him win the governors seat. I certainly wouldn't want that on my conscience. The guys a political terrorist by forcing his will on the GSE's and the consumer with an unchallengeable by law doctrine. He is setting a very dangerous precedent with the HVCC. It can not be allowed to stand in any form. Notice in the article of deedies that he seems to live his life in the shadows in that what he receives as campaign contribution could or couldn't be seen as bribes? This guy is dangerous.
clulessdad: (November 25, 2009 8:36am)
Frank-that is a great idea. Maybe the NAR as well? In my telephone efforts a week ago, I was in contact with the Regulatory policy Rep at NAR, who was very interested in your efforts. He was copied on all the correspondence that I sent to Gary Miller. In fact, maybe you should include Gary Miller and his staffer on the webinar get together. I would only include proponents to get rid of HVCC at this point. But that is your call. Think Big Frank! Happy Turkey Day, all!
App: (November 25, 2009 8:28am)
NOW you're talking Frank. Get rid of it or suspend it till it can pass proper tests of legality. Seriously, you were entrusted with a sacred honor and duty to those 120k signer of the petition to do their will as laid out in the petition. The honorable thing to do is follow that through and not betray that sacred trust. If you feel you are no longer obligated to that sacred trust then you need to let the signers know so they can make other plans to rid the world of this abomination. There are no deals with the devil. Dancing with devil changes you, it doesn't change him. "let's see if we can work with NAMB and or the Appraisers Guild to get the U.S. Attorney General involved.. Cuomo didn't follow the correct procedures to invoke this code, would correcting this fall under the USAG's role?
CA-Appr.: (November 25, 2009 8:26am)
That is a great idea. Count me in. Lets put our heads together. We need a plan A and plan B.
Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 25, 2009 8:21am)
Your problem child in Tampa is on board for that!
Frank@TBWS: (November 25, 2009 8:16am)
Spoke with Marc Savitt this morning. We will do a webinar next week so we can all talk about the best thing to do. Does this sound good to everyone?
Frank@TBWS: (November 25, 2009 8:01am)
The poll question is a great idea. I'll run it Monday. I guess no one agrees with burning the candle at both ends. The poll question will tell all. If not, then so be it, I have no problem with missing what I consider to be an opportunity if the collective voice says so. For the record I want HVCC to be eliminated as well. How's this for a thought... let's see if we can work with NAMB and or the Appraisers Guild to get the U.S. Attorney General involved.. Cuomo didn't follow the correct procedures to invoke this code, would correcting this fall under the USAG's role?
clulessdad: (November 25, 2009 7:15am)
Eric Johnson-yes home prices will still be on decline. Supply of homes will go up and demand will go down. With decreasing values, consumer confidence drops and foreclosures continue. The real question is when will prices stabilize? The answer lies when jobs will be created. Goods producing jobs, not just service jobs. Our consumption driven, outsourcing economy shows no sign of reversing and producing quality jobs. The problem starts with jobs and ends with jobs. We have lost millions of jobs since the start of the recession/depression. What economic sector can possibly produce those jobs? How about small business, which accounts for 60% of jobs and probably 90% of the entrepreneurship in the US? Figure out a solution to the jobs problem and you would win the Nobel prize.
Socal Appraisal Gal: (November 25, 2009 7:12am)
In reference to SoCal yes it would be nice if all appraisers could sell real estate but not all appraisers are have the want, drive or skills to sell property. We can determine value all day long and figure out list prices...gee brokers constantly call me on how to do a BPO..the part that most appraiser's are lacking in is the ability to sell...The majority of us are analytical number crunchers that is why we appraise rather than sell. I am sure most if their skills allowed would love to get a bit agent commisson check rather than be nickeled and dimed by the HVCC driven AMC's. I personally love to sell and am working on getting by brokers lic. but I am lucky I am able to sell...most appraisers I know are wonderful at appraising but they are not sales people...selling is just not their bag. Thanks for the thought...
Nutman: (November 25, 2009 2:12am)
No levy on central banks, if fact NO CENTRAL BANKS! As a United States citizen I want to end this global "crap" and protect our sovereignty. The U.S. constitution has been held hostage to all of this nonsense! Wake up people!
Eric Johnson: (November 24, 2009 9:09pm)
Part 2 - When one considers the still massive shadow inventory of homes that are in some stage of foreclosure limbo and the increasing number of defaults and foreclosure filings, you have a nice recipe for continued downward pressure on real estate asset prices...which is potentially good for some homebuyers who plan to be in for the long haul. But anyone putting a mere 3.5% down though can pretty well bank on being at negative equity a year from now though if they're buying 'retail.' This is what I've forecast for the past two years and....all I can say is I hate being correct.
I'm not feeling the love from the market. We have a sham recovery, nationalized lending & banking services and wall street co-opting washington (eg. Goldman Sachs) and a much marginalized middle class that is still, like the nation, mostly indentured 'debt slaves' to those who have capital & trade surpluses.
Best to all.
Eric Johnson
The Financial Independence Project, Inc.
Expanse Financial, Inc.
Eric Johnson: (November 24, 2009 8:58pm)
Pt 1
Brian - you alluded to the notion that rates are going to go up, the tax credit is going away and homes will get more expensive. It doesn't work that way. When rates go up, you'll see a corresponding dip in home prices. At least this is what usually happens. The fact of the matter is that government housing subsidies of FNMA, FHLMC and FHA along with the much hyped home buyer tax credit are having the effect of artificially moving possible transactions from the future to 'today.' The FED is doing everything in it's power to counteract massive deflation in home prices and subsidizing the market.
When inflation really starts to kick in and everyone begins to flee the dollar, you'll see upward trends in hard assets including real estate and commodities. What everyone is banking on is that the employment picture (the biggest predictor of housing prices) will get rosier. This of course will be offset, again, by a downward pull on housing prices by higher rates.
End PART 1
CASpectator: (November 24, 2009 8:05pm)
Senor RE & SoCal-Are you guys OK. Is there something wrong with you? Being an appraiser is a profession. You obviously have no idea how much time money schooling, training hours and effort goes in to the appraisal profession. Yes we can easily go take a state exam and be RE agents but why when something has unfairly and illegally been taken from us??? Go ask a doctor or a lawyer to just give up their profession and become nurses or paralegals and see how well it goes over with them. Again you guys obviously have NO IDEA as to what is involved to become a licensed real estate appraiser...
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 8:05pm)
Read the article....it's not clear if Cuomo's campaign organization is guilty of anything. Looks like typical sleazy politics that will be used against him when the negative ads start. I hate the guy and hope he crashes and burns, but this has nothing to do with the HVCC. And, by the way, if the HVCC is such a big deal, why isn't it front page news.....because nobody but appraisers and brokers care. It's too complicated for the public to understand and will never be an issue in his campaign. You guys are so wrapped up in your lives you can't see the big picture. Try thinking like the general public. All, have a great Thanksgiving!
App: (November 24, 2009 7:02pm)
Here's a direct link to the story clulessdad : http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=axsQ.bbBo6NU
clulessdad: (November 24, 2009 6:51pm)
Deedie-I must have missed your post on Bloomberg-Can you resend it?
App: (November 24, 2009 6:04pm)
Cuomo's a political terrorist - we don't negotiate with terrorists. You don't think so? Who else but a terrorist could wreak such havoc.
"Terrorism is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion." The GSE's
App: (November 24, 2009 5:42pm)
It's a scary precedent, someone can take hostage a whole industry and no can do anything about it??!! So they're offering negotiations to lessen the blow, but the original intent and crime are still there. That opens the door to more of the same and if negotiating becomes the answer so it can stay illegal and out of the public domain, where does that leave the public trust? Now things will be decided in back room deals and negotiated as far as fair play without concern for it's legality or whether it's in the consumers best interest? How many more self-serving mandates will we see before all the rights of the people are gone? This is much more than just an appraiser/broker thing, this goes to the heart of freedom and democracy. The HVCC can not be allowed to stand in any form without due process of law. Do not legitimize it by negotiating. If you do you might be opening the door to more of the same.
App: (November 24, 2009 5:38pm)
It's a scary precedent, someone can take hostage a whole industry and no can do anything about it. So they're offering negotiations to lessen the blow, but the original intent and crime are still there. That opens the door to more of the same and if negotiating becomes the answer so it can stay illegal and out of the public domain, where does that leave the public trust? All things decided in back room deals and negotiated as far as fair play without concern for it's legality or whether it's in the consumers best interest? How any more self-serving mandates will we see before the all the rights of the people are gone? This is much more than just an appraiser/broker thing, this goes to the heart of freedom and democracy. The HVCC can not be allowed to stand in any form without due process of law. Do not legitimize it by negotiating.
MortgageBlues: (November 24, 2009 5:34pm)
Brian TBS: I recall you saying something about having a wall between loan offices and appraisers made sense to you. I completely disagree. My biggest problem with HVCC is the fact that I cannot have a normal conversation with my appraiser. I cannot answer any questions he may have about the property or point out anything he may need to know and therefore, I feel I cannot effectively do my job anymore. The other major issue I have with HVCC is the fact I cannot select an appraiser. What options to I have when an AMC sends out an idiot appraiser? Ever try to talk to an appraiser through an AMC to resolve an issue? I have and each time it was like trying to drag a rabbit through a knothole. In which other industry is everyone treated like criminals? What if we had to order everything through a third party? Imagine how you would feel if your doctor, real estate agent, contractor, loan officer, attorney, etc., all had to be selected for you by a third party. We would never tolerate this practice in any other industry so why would you think it makes sense in our industry? While we are waiting for congress to repeal HVCC I am all for any modifications you think you can work out with Cuomo’s office. That is as long as freedom to select our choice of appraiser and free communication between loan officers and appraisers are insisted upon.
SoCal: (November 24, 2009 5:33pm)
Why aren't you appraisers becoming Real Estate Agents to make some money. My goodness, if I stopped getting paid doing my job I would do something else. Why is it so difficult to adapt for you people. Have you been isolated so long in your appraisal duties that you forgot how to be a human being and survive. Geesh, you folks make me sad to be involved with you in any way.
App: (November 24, 2009 5:27pm)
Appraisers : They (mortgage brokers) just don't get the appraisers perspective. I mean, appraisal fraud is the lead off on CNBC? Come on! They'd do a lot better seeing things the way we do. They haven't had to take a stand against amc's and the hvcc like we have, so their perspective is skewed. The only thing they can do to benefit us is to not negotiate. Cuomo's a terrorist and we don't negotiate with terrorists. I just don't get how they don't understand that the HVCC is illegal. Boggles the mind that they'd think about negotiating something a little less worse. As if criminals run things so get used to it. Huh?!!! Isn't that playing the criminals game and giving validity to their schemes? No retreat - no surrender. Kill the HVCC
Appraiser too: (November 24, 2009 5:16pm)
I think we should first wait to see what Brian and his people come up with before we all put our 2 cents in. If the new proposal/agreement will give us the freedom to work with our LO's, take out AMC's and put the whole checks in our pockets then I dont give a crap if its still called HVCC, fudge or CBS. I am ok with taking a look at what you can come up with Brian and Frank, then it should be debated by whoever wants!
Stay'in Alive in Tampa Bay: (November 24, 2009 5:15pm)
Brian, I'm issuing you a challenge! Are you afraid to turn into a poll question? Are we working together in a democracy to resolve this thing, or did it all of the sudden turn into some type of a dictatorship? By negotiating with Cuomo,you are basically saying he had the authority to negotiate this mess in the 1st place!
Deedie: (November 24, 2009 5:13pm)
Deedie: (November 24, 2009 4:45pm)
Brian & Frank. I sent you messages where BLOOMBERG NEWS (11/23/09) did you even bothering reading it? The idiot Ag - Andrew has been caught red-handed accepting bribes. Have you even read the article. I like many others signed that petition to get rid of HVCC and I have no intention to accept anything but JUST THAT. You may remove my name if you like but I did not ask for any compromise. JUST GET RID OF IT. I no longer will be apart of this in this forum unless I get an email from you saying OUR MISSION HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED (NO HVCC) signing off until then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Disappointed as HELL. I appreciate your efforts but I am not bending!!!!!!!!!!! [email protected]
Licensed Real Estate Associate
Certified Residential Real Estate Appraiserut Licnsed Insurance Adjuster NOT Working but still
paying. Starving like everyone else, just paying more.
I have never heard any thing from either one of you.
I am Pi
brian tbws: (November 24, 2009 5:12pm)
I appreciate where your coming from but before I would hope you listen to our course of action before you make any judgments. Our course includes and mandates your voice & our goal and objective has never been anything but an end to HVCC. I'm heading home guys but will check in tomorrow. Thanks for everything and have a great thanksgiving. Thanks a bunch.
App: (November 24, 2009 5:04pm)
Brain - no one is asking you to do more than you've already done. As illogical and dishonest as it sounds to you, The choice is not yours as far as taking the bait and negotiating with his people. You did your job and we applaud that. Do no more beyond the scope of the agreement you initiated. You were not elected and we're not expecting heros. You're in over your head imo. I'm saying all this as a friend. You don't know who you're dealing with.
United we Stand, Divided we Fall: (November 24, 2009 5:02pm)
Senor RE, You don't get it, As a real estate appraiser, i'm licensed to appraised property. We are independent appraisers. We as appraisers got into this business to be entrepreneurs, not work a work-a-bee. We are adults not kids. Welcome to America a free country that offers there citizens the persuit of happiness to work and be anything you want to be. Senor RE, we work to have a single family reside in a single family residence, so please keep your third world mentality to yourself. This is not a day workers profession.
Appraiser too: (November 24, 2009 4:57pm)
If we are going to negotiate with them I would just hope the new deal would take out the AMC's in the middle, that would make life a little easier on all of us and at the same time save our hard earned money! So whatever you do Brian & Frank, the AMC's have to go PERIOD!! Thank you and I appreciate all you're doing for everyone involved but don't forget to get everyone's input (via poll or something) before you take the new proposals to them!
App: (November 24, 2009 4:57pm)
Cuomo is boxed into a corner due to the HVCC and his run for Governor. He needs the HVCC to not be an issue and he's going to use you to do it. You set a precedent for gradual reduction of the HVCC it's going to take years to get rid of it. You're going to be his excuse to Congress that the HVCC is working and that he's made a deal with you. Nothing good can come of it besides destruction of the faith 120k people put in you to get rid of the HVCC. They (Cuomo) never wanted to negotiate before. Why now? His run for Gov. why else! and you'll be the perfect patsy to make the HVCC a non-issue. Leave it to those in Government to deal with Cuomo and HVCC. You're in over your head. You don't have the skills or experience (and it's obvious no one you know) to do this when so many have tried. Hear me now and understand me later. Let's hold this over his head and show that there is no negotiations with crooks. He'll have this over his head and pending legislation when he runs. Don't give in.
brian tbws: (November 24, 2009 4:55pm)
App, Deedie, give me a call 707-330-1272. Here's what your missing; we're not needed know. Cuomo brought fannie and freddie to their knees and turned your livelihood upside-down. He doesnt need us. I need to be careful as to know just get into an argument, but I ask you this; should we just leave the negotiating table and allow business as usual rather than listen to a dissenting voice. Personally, it seems illogical and dishonest to our collective ultimate goal. Rather than vent, lets hear your voice. I've spoken with a number of appraisers today & I feel where your coming from. Truthfully, the final solution will come from your constructive input as I know I'll continue to receive. p.s. my phone's on.
App: (November 24, 2009 4:38pm)
Whatever you negotiate will not last. As soon as you're no longer needed things will go back to worse than they were before. This HVCC has to see the light of day & pass all legal ramifications for it's legal enaction. As long as it's illegal they can whatever they want. You really don't grasp this. There may be some give & take on our side but there will be only take on the other side. You get 1 good thing, 3 bad things will follow when you turn your back-why? Because there is no law to it & they can do whatever they want. As recipient of the signatures you are not authorized to do any negotiations beyond the intent and purpose of the petition. Reversal of the HVCC. Why do you think they offered to negotiate? Think about it. It would be more irresponsible of you to take it on yourself that you speak for all signers & have the right to amend the petition any way you see fit. Why did they want to negotiate? Think about it. Cuomo is boxed in about HVCC & he's looking for the easy way out
Deedie: (November 24, 2009 4:31pm)
brian tbws:Deedie: (November 24, 2009 6:22am)
Why don't we get together with all of the signatures on the petition and demand that a special prosecutor be appointed to investigate Mr. Cuomo and his cronies? As with the Bloomberg News Service provided yesterday. To contact the reporters on this story: Karen Freifeld in New York at [email protected] ; Linda Sandler in New York at [email protected] . Last Updated: November 23, 2009 00:01 EST How many people read the article ?
Deedie: (November 24, 2009 3:47pm)
pegasus2005: I am a Florida Licensed Real Estate Sales associate, Florida Certified Residential Real Estate Appraiser and a Florida Licensed Insurance Adjuster that is not working. I feel your pain. You forgot to mention the software, I & OF MLS fees, Etc. KNOW LETS S--TO or get off the pot............. And to the rest of you too............................
deedie: (November 24, 2009 3:50pm)
pegasus2005: I meant E & O ILL Appraiser: (November 23, 2009 1:21pm)
App: (November 24, 2009 4:25pm)
You might think you're being irresponsible if you passed over that offer of negotiation, but, that is not what we signed up for. We did not elect you to speak for us or negotiate for us. Do not sign anything as the representative of those 120k signatures. You think they're wanting to negotiate for nothing? Why don't you wait and see how willing they are to negotiate when Cuomo starts his run. Why is there this need to do a deal with them right now? You are blindsiding all the efforts to get rid of HVCC if you negotiate beyond the scope of trust people put in you for that letter of the law petition. The HVCC is not something that's a little ok until it passes all legal tests. It's all wrong. You are dealing with criminals (Cuomo) in a hostage situation (appraiser & brokers). I am 1000% against it. Listen, don't deal with them it's a big mistake. You did your job and fulfilled your obligation, no one is asking for any more from you than that. Certainly not the 120k people that signed.
brian tbws: (November 24, 2009 4:10pm)
Hi Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: I urge you to watch our show and hear our message. Here's what I'm thinking. We have an opportunity to have a discussion with Cuomo's office; one of the few people to actually have the ability to negotiate the issue of HVCC. We would be irresponsible to pass that over. Cuomo's office has certain criteria... FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS. We should work out the best situation with them; that includes giving appraisers complete autonomy over their business and putting their complete fee back in their pocket. Now if we can accomplish this, wouldnt it be a good beginning to the sunset policy currently in 3044 and 3126? Here's my biggest point. Lets keep pushing the legislative ave as a means of ridding our industry of HVCC. In the mean time, work on all fronts. Further and Final Any decision with our negotiations will include YOU. YOU. YOU. Our message may not have been loud but its been clear. Thanks for your time & consideration on the issue.
clulessdad: (November 24, 2009 4:06pm)
With HVCC or its son/daughter lurking in the wings, I have to ask "Why would anyone ever again want to be an appraiser?" To get business by only random selection? More moral hazard. Banks are winning, the small guys are not.
Senor RE: (November 24, 2009 4:03pm)
IL Apprsr.....If your scenario happened to me just like that I would quit the business. I wouldn't jump on line and complain to the rest of the people who just got screwed too. By the way, I have to compete for every aspect of my business, soI'm kind of use to the competition as it is. If someone came out and changed the rules completely I would make a tough decision and get into a new industry and try like hell to make it work out as fast as possible. I understand your point, but I do not understand your solution...As I mentioned. HVCC had it's warnings for all Appraisers, just like FHA is doing now.
deedie: (November 24, 2009 3:50pm)
pegasus2005: I meant E & O insurance. You ought to see my annual dues, insurance, continuing ed ETC...........
Deedie: (November 24, 2009 3:47pm)
pegasus2005: I am a Florida Licensed Real Estate Sales associate, Florida Certified Residential Real Estate Appraiser and a Florida Licensed Insurance Adjuster that is not working. I feel your pain. You forgot to mention the software, I & OF MLS fees, Etc. KNOW LETS S--TO or get off the pot............. And to the rest of you too............................
ORappr: (November 24, 2009 3:11pm)
Way to go pegasus! Hey, maybe I'll get my RE license too in the meantime. Seems like a reasonable solution to fill in the gaps a bit!
pegasus2005: (November 24, 2009 3:05pm)
Senior RE--You are right about "anybody" getting a license to sell real estate. I just renewed my license for the 31st year; Cost me $45 for CE & a bit more for the state fee. Overall, I've found real estate agents to be primarily interested in their commission, not in their fiduciary responsibilities to their clients. Overall, I've found most agents to be greedy, ignorant, unknowlegable, self-serving liars. But they do have that "Code of Ethics". Obviously there was a need to establish one, although I don't think most agents take it to heart. I also renewed my appraiser license; cost me $900 for the CE, $681 for the license. You're right, anybody can be a real estate agent--only costs $100 and take a relatively easy test. Problem is, that appraisers are either IN business or OUT. To be IN, we have to maintain our expensive licenses, E&O, software lease, databases (even if we only get 1 appraisal order a month). It's a BIG DEAL to let that license lapse 'cause VERY EXPENSIVE to regain.
ORappr: (November 24, 2009 2:51pm)
BTW- when I refer to 3rd parties it is not necessarily refering to AMC's. It could be any buffer that is intended to meet HVCC. How about 3rd party in house software for lenders, or appraisal coordinators (in house or AMC) who's sole responsibily/priroity is to find appr's that are qualified, compliant, can meet a reasonable deadlines appropriate to the job, and have a clean track record. There would not be pressure on this middle person to fill quotas attached to appraisals. Hey, what is the first thing a representative of an AMC says when they call up an apprairser.. What's your fee and turn time??-right. Should that be the first question? I usually ask what they can tell me about the assignment, the property and any appraisal guidelines. Almost always these people know nothing about what I've just asked.
ILL Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 2:43pm)
Senor RE - Let's give you an example you can identify with. Your friend refers his friend to you as an agent because he wants to downsize. Now for all intents and purposes this is a your client. You get to list his house and help him find a suitable new house. Two commissions. Yahoo. But wait...your broker says no. Let's give it to the new kid, he needs the experience. He'll list the house and because we get a better rate from Jane Doe, her commission is less than yours she gets to show your friends friend houses. You, Senor RE get nothing. Now what do you think? Fair? I don't think so. That's what HVCC has done for many of us, and yes we probably could get other work and 25% of Illinois appraisers have according to licensing statistics, but it still isn't fair. We're holding on because appraising houses is what we love to do. We don't love all the BS from lenders and realtors that come with it, but we do love appraising....at least I do, and I'm darn good at it!
Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 24, 2009 2:34pm)
Frank & Brian, I think we all truly appreciate all of your hard work and effort & getting us as far as we've come, but listen to the voice of the people in this industry. We can't all be wrong or taking this out of context. How about making this issue your poll question for tomorrow? Negotiate,abolish or undecided. If the poll question comes back by a landslide, abolish, please join us again on our initial crusade.
Senor RE: (November 24, 2009 2:30pm)
JoeColorado...You're age is your excuse. Are you trying to tell me that because you're 55 you can only appraise properties? Gimme a break. Secondly, anyone can do my job, I'm paid commissions, if someone wants to sell RE just go to your local RE building, they'll hire you on the spot and train you. I make my own money, I don't cry to other when things go bad, like you are doing. By the way, you said it takes a special person to be a good appraiser....Unfortunately all the blogs and complaints lead me to believe different now. Am
I right? Did things change and you can't change with it? I don't mean you disrespect personally and I want the best for all of us, but change happens and change can be good. 55 isn't too old for change so I don't care for your excuse.
ORappr: (November 24, 2009 2:15pm)
Rob and Ezradams, I'm not dismissing anyones business or calling F&B sellouts. Those are your words, not mine. I'm merely sugesting that we need to continue the fight to improve things for the long term. I actually believe that 3rd parties could make things easier if we are careful to implement procedures that work. IE: An appraiser should be able to consult a UR or LO to discuss project scope of work issues, assignment issues, etc. Just not a discussion about fees or value. And thrid party fees should not be attached to the appraisal fees at all. Possibly a flat contract price arranged between the lender and 3rd party based o a segment of time such as monthly or yearly.
joecolorado: (November 24, 2009 1:58pm)
Senor-perhaps one of the out of work appraisers could do your job,you seem to be able to switch and swap jobs with ease,with no apparent loyalty.Perhaps then you may understand that people like me,have little alternative to appraising as I have been an appraiser all my working life,now I am in excess of 55 with few alternative professions open to me due to my age.I have not swapped jobs like you use a situation to get more money'cos it's in vogue.I have been in this profession through thick and thin,it takes a special person to be an appraiser and a very special person to be a good one.Maybe it would behoove you to talk to an appraiser to get some humility as they generally have gobs of it and genrally are willing to talk to anyone,no matter how rude or condescending their manner.U dont need to answer this as I already know your response.I'm off skiing,Have a nice thanksgiving everyone even you senor.
ORappr: (November 24, 2009 1:49pm)
Senor RE; Please do not assume my income has suffered to the point that I may go out of business just because I am supportative of those who have/are. I have made adjustments such as specializing, cutting overhead to the extent possible. It will hold me for now. But it is not a long term fix. I'm known to be one of the better appraisers in my area and even I will leave the industry unless my fees improve in long term. Most appraisers I know do what they do because they love the work. For most of us, it's not a hobby, it's a living. Do you consider your career a hobby?
CornerstoneKathy: (November 24, 2009 1:45pm)
oh no 5 days with no TBWS? What will us bloggers do? Happy Thanksgiving guys. I got my homemade apple pie with a cheddar cheese crust in the oven now..turkey is defrosting and the wine is chilling! Life is good..even with all the crap on our dish lately..we will survive.
Rob in AZ: (November 24, 2009 1:33pm)
Cluless: thanks for the info. App: please let's not go so far as calling out F&B as sellouts--I think they are doing what they feel is right, and I think they have given us all (including you & me) a voice we didn't otherwise have. F&B--thank you for giving that voice to us; I do think you should consider what App is saying, minus the vitriol: Cuomo's imposition of guidelines on the entire nation is illegal, we have to eliminate the anti-competitive practice he has foisted on us entirely--any compromise will come back to bite us later and will have ruined all your hard work. Thanks!!
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 1:23pm)
Hey App: Wow, so I can just be dismissed with a simple wave of your hand? Sorry, but that's not good enough. Come up with some reasonable alternatives before you dismiss mine. And, no I don't own an AMC...I'm just another hard working appraiser doing my best to survive. I do not accept low fee work from anyone.
Senor RE: (November 24, 2009 12:50pm)
ORAppr...I agree with you. To add on to your comments, it's not just the appraisal that has problems now, it's the lending side too. With new rules and regulations, even good borrowers are having hard times getting loans due to the collateral. If the HOA has issues, deal deal. If there aren't any permits nowawadays, no deal. We're killing deals like crazy and it has nothing to do with the buyers ability.... they get approved, but the file is dead because of issues not related to the buyer. It's not just appraisers who have troubles, yet there isn't the gigantic pity party from others....Because they deal with it or make changes. Appraisal problems don't scare me like they are scaring you, the reason is you're scared because your income has suffered. Everyone else in this RE business has suffered too, they just got P/T jobs, which is what most appraisers on this website bitch about having to do. Know any Realtors with P/T jobs???
ILL Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 12:50pm)
Senor RE - so glad you haven't had any problems due to HVCC. Strange so many others have. My niece, from Miami just called and said one file, a sale, has taken 5 months now and still not closed and the last appraisal I did was the third for this borrower in about 6 months. The one three months ago was done using all foreclosures while there were legitimate sales. I have lenders that I used to work with calling me and asking me to check if such and such is accurate or such and such is right and they all complain about lousy appraisals/appraisers. Glad to know you're doing great though....
ORappr: (November 24, 2009 12:35pm)
Senor RE, c onsider that fact that appr's spend many more hours now on appraisals in order to continue deliveing compliant work, meeting ever demanding higher standards. Not to mention numerous hours wasted due to lack of communication & erroneous communication when setting up assignments via 3rd party entities. No doubt appraisers are going broke because of this travesty. But there is a bigger picture at stake here. Consider that just like any other product/service that has shrinking profits due to changing environmental conditions. When appr's fees are cut, one of 2 things happens: Appr's can resist cutting corners & continue delivering quality work, eventually result in going out of business, or we can cut corners as a means to maintain a profitable business, unfortunately leading to deminishing quality appraisals. If you think thinkgs are bad now, imagine the long term effects on America's real estate indusrty and subsequently our economy, if the appraisal industry is compromised.
Senor RE: (November 24, 2009 12:17pm)
Ca-Appr....Wrong, I'm not clueless to your plight...I'm dis-interested in your plight. Your plight has turned into a pity party. I know you got screwed, but who hasn't been screwed that is in RE. You Appraisers have yet to recognize the HVCC will continue, if not in it's current form, a form similar to the one we have. FHA is coming next with it, in a similar form. If it was going away, why would FHA install it? FHA is 75% of the loans these days, so the big one is coming to you next. I'm sorry you can't adapt to this new environment, I'm sure you will once you've lost everything. Hopefully you do not take it that far for your own sake, but do what you want. I can only share with you my thoughts, if you don't like them "So what." We'll see who's right in the end, so go ahead and bitch at me if it makes you feel better while you continue into BK. Do yourself a favor and try something else, why are you fighting it when you can't change it? Do you think it can change? Really???
SimpleSolution: (November 24, 2009 12:16pm)
Well put MyrtleBeachLO....thank you...
CA-Appr.: (November 24, 2009 12:09pm)
Senor RE- You are truly an idiot. When you can walk the walk, then talk the talk. You are clueless to our plight.
clulessdad: (November 24, 2009 12:08pm)
Good point MyrtleBeach. Real estate salespeople are only working for the broker, so therefore all sales leads need to go to the broker to divvy up to the lowest commission he can find in the office. The saddest thing about HVCC is that it was meant to hurt the broker in the pocket, and although it has to some extent, nothing compared to what it has done to the appraisal industry.
Senor RE: (November 24, 2009 12:07pm)
MyrtleBeachLO....If that happened to me I would find something else to do, which is my point. Life isn't fair. I don't paint myself into corners with an income that has bypassed me. Keep doing what you're doing though, you seem happy ???
MyrtleBeachLO: (November 24, 2009 11:58am)
Re: SenorRE, where did you crawl out from? You have any idea what a desk review is. They make no adjustment for upgrades, lot location, energy eff...nor compare the conditions of comps. A desk review doesn't leave the desk to inspect the property. The issue isn't about the seperation between the LO and appraiser. It's about the unfair allocation of assignments from the LO's request. Let's assume RE= Realtor and you are no longer allow to generate business on your on. But take buyers out base on your boss assigning sales on a rotating basis. Only you keep getting bypassed. You go to your boss I got skip. He tells you that while he was walking to your desk one of your co-workers offer to do your job for only 1.5% comm. Over and Over again. And farm out the phone sales to India. Got It!
Senor RE: (November 24, 2009 11:48am)
ILL Appraiser, the unemployment is bad for everyone, not just you, but yet everyone is making adjustments. Is this a pity party for Appraisers? My suggestions remains the same, make adjustments...Since you're an Analyst by nature start spending time finding something that fits for you other than appraising, like insurance adjuster or such. Stay in Appraising if you can deal with these changes. I'm not trying to be mean, just real. The pity party is over....HVCC will remain with small changes that will not help you. Fight the Good Fight, which means battling a new industry if you can.
App: (November 24, 2009 11:45am)
Frank and Brian, if you don't want to follow through with your promise and intent of reversing and eliminating the HVCC, you can send the signatures to me. I'll take over the good fight for elimination of the HVCC or until it's suspended and can pass the test of legality. Thanks
ILL Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 11:38am)
Senor RE - Appraisers aren't in sales. We are reporters/analysts. Many of us during the prime of our life. And have you heard? Unemployment is at over 10% now, in my area over 15%, and that doesn't include those folks like appraisers that have been self-employed. Can't even get unemployment compensation.
SimpleSolution: (November 24, 2009 11:37am)
Oh boy Senor(or should it be Senior) RE you opened yourself up with that one. Hope your ready for the fight....LOL
App: (November 24, 2009 11:35am)
Amazing, you guys seem to have no problem with suggesting that something illegal can stay illegal and still be good for those in the industry. Where tf am I? It's like the loonies are now running the mad house. Did you check your morals and ethics at the door? Bizarre
Senor RE: (November 24, 2009 11:27am)
HVCC has good points. It may be hard for an appraiser who lost their income to see that. The industry is full of scoundrels and this helps eliminate some of the problem. I know appraisers didn't have much to do with the problem, so it's not fair to do away with their income. Every industry has collateral damage, this one is no different. It should be clear to you appraisers to learn a new field to generate income, you can earn a little money while doing so with appraising for whomever for now. HVCC has good points and should be tweaked. Everyone has lost something, why should we listen to so much one-sided from you, when it's really about your income. There aren't that many bad appraisals anymore, I haven't had one in months and besides they get desk reviewed anyways. Go sell insurance, homes or loans, but get away from appraising for now and do yourself a favor. Good luck.
ILL Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 11:21am)
I don't know if you all followed the latest posts last night but in the final like 10 posts, 4 appraisers are going or have gone bankrupt including myself. 25 years of feast or famine, lots of pressure from realtors and lenders, lost clients for being ethical, on just about everyone's approved list, not blacklisted ever and now this HVCC/AMC....I thought I wasn't getting any work because my acceptance was like two minutes too slow (my isp scans for viruses) but now I hear they have found ways to subvert the system by getting orders before they're even sent out? Wow.
FLA Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 11:16am)
To Ancient Appraiser: That is good to know, regarding the computer program. AMC's are getting assignments out to the most desperate. None of the experienced, "ancient" appraisers in my area ever hear from AMCs, though we signed onto some lists because our (formerly) regular, bread & butter clients requested we do so. I am getting regular calls from local sales agents and loan officers getting really lousy appraisals done because their buyer/borrower selected a big mega bank who uses a soulless AMC. All I see in these reports are canned statements (many of which contradict each other!) and a total lack of knowledge of the nuances of our local market. Oh, and all photos are always MLS pictures - so obvious that the one-tripper from 90 miles away did not even bother to drive around and observe the market in which he/she accepted the assignment. Makes me so mad when the subject is, oh, say, one mile from my office and they send someone from 1 to 2 hours away.
App: (November 24, 2009 11:15am)
real appraiser : we have a very good weapon, that petition. I don't want to see the effort wasted by misplaced sentiments that the hvcc is never going away or that it just needs some tweaks. WE have Cuomo if you guys would wake up and see the power we have. Cuomo's ambition is his vulnerability. We have kryptonite. I don't know what else to say.
Peter Hamilton: (November 24, 2009 11:13am)
Hey, sounds like FKA appraiser would be correct for several posters...or soon to be Formerly Known As appraisers..
Mortgage Man: (November 24, 2009 11:11am)
Remember when Appraisers said mortgage people peruaded them to do things? Now it's the Realtor doing it. Case in point...I am a lender with a file, the house just appraised by my buyer has small issues that need to be fixed. The buyers Realtor said, "Tell the Appraiser it's fixed and maybe he won't want pictures." I replied, "I don't know him, you met him on the inspection so you do it." This has made my lending life so much easier to say to the Realtors "You do it." Realtors for so long have escaped any ethical issues because they have their affiliates do it. Now that their affiliates can't do it, they are doing it themselves. I read last Sunday the President of NAR said their Realtors never got involved in anything unethical which caused the meltdown. Give me a break..It starts with the Realtor needing "Favors." Now they have to do it themselves and they will get penalized just like we all have been....Which is about time.
clulessdad: (November 24, 2009 11:11am)
I feel for all the appraisers out there in dire straights. Frank-the frustration that is being expressed in this blog is that the expectations of a quick reversal to HVCC and the utilization of the petition just is not materializing as quick as some people need it to end. I am not sure that telling them to "..relax... have a cocktail" will offer them any consolation to losing their livelihoods. They have some time sensitivity right now, a little different than you and me.
App: (November 24, 2009 11:10am)
@wakeup - I don't care if you don't feel betrayed. The ones that matter are the 120k signers of the petition with the intent of reversal and elimination of the HVCC. You want to pussyfoot around with Cuomo's people? Get a petition going for the modifying of the HVCC that gives Frank and Brian the right to negotiate. Till then, you're stuck with reversal and elimination of the HVCC as the only terms of negotiation. Play the system on your own dime, not on the dime of the 120k signers of the petition. Seriously, get a petition going for modification of the hvcc. Lets see how many signatures you get. At least then you'll have a legal right to negotiate. None of you are smart enough to play the system on Cuomo's terms in Cuomo's garden without getting fkd and taking us down with you.
back to the future: (November 24, 2009 11:10am)
Glad to see you guys are paying respects to Max Headroom form the 80,s with the video skipping like that. lol I love it!
real appraiser: (November 24, 2009 11:04am)
App, dont you see you are just pushing people away, not educating them. Slow down, I dont like the idea that it appears they are backing down. But agree to disagree and move on, you have another way to fight, which I have not heard yet, I will be on board with that cause too.
Wake up App: (November 24, 2009 10:55am)
I signed it and I don't feel betrayed. I'm happy Frank and Brian are doing something besides whining on a blog to help us. Where is the result of your efforts APP? I hear what they are saying.. let's kill HVCC in congress, but let's work over the idiot in new york as well. It's called "working" the system App. That's how things get done. Might not be right, but that's life. Get over yourself... YOU don't represent those 120k signatures either - speak for yourself, if anyone else has a problem with what they are working on, let them chime in themselves.
App: (November 24, 2009 10:54am)
Ezra: I am done talking to you. The public is our best weapon and educating of the public is the most effective way to change. Do you own an amc? I'm from Boston and New Haven, I know how things work out there. You're naive to think the HVCC won't be a hot campaign issue, one that Cuomo wants to avoid. Please don't address me anymore.
App: (November 24, 2009 10:49am)
Frank: Never say never. Political ambitions dictate means. He DOESN"T want the HVCC as a compaign issue. It can be gotten rid of. You saying it never can be gotten rid of through Cuomo's office is another reason why you should NOT be negotiating. You did a good job. Be happy with that and leave it alone. You have a defeatist attitude and I don't want someone with that kind of attitude speaking for me. Neither do the signers that trusted your intentions. Frank Garay: (November 24, 2009 9:59am)
Man.. it amazes me how some people can't hear what we are saying! LISTEN to me. We will NEVER get HVCC removed from Cuomo's office - NEVER
ILL Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 10:48am)
One place to start is with Deebie's suggestion at 6:22am. These Bloomberg writers already investigated where Cuomo got his campaign contributions and may be interested in pursuing other complaints against Cuomo. Email these ladies.
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 10:48am)
App: You have an unrealistic concept of the importance of the HVCC to the general public regarding Cuomo's run for office. The public doesn't understand it, couldn't care less about it, and it will not be an issue in his election. I'm not sure what state you're from, but having lived in the NY area all my life, I can assure you the HVCC will not be a mainstream talking point in his campaign or that of his opponent.
SimpleSolution: (November 24, 2009 10:38am)
CA-Appraiser-I am there with you. I personally don't work for AMC's and have taken a part time job outside of the industry to supplement my conventional appraisal income so I guess technically I am already on strike with the AMC's but if there is anything else I can offer please let me know.
Ancient Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 10:35am)
Sorry that was to FLA Appraiser !
Ancient Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 10:33am)
FKA Appraiser; From everything I've seen the AMC's haven't addressed squat! I find the news about the computer program even more enlightening. There is a new computer program that actually captures HVCC assignments based on their fees, zip code, and any number of factors except qualifications. My understanding is the capture takes place BEFORE distribution. That's one of the reasons for not getting any assignments even though you may have signed up with one or more of the AMC's - under duress! The program comes with a caveat that it is not santioned by the AMC's Like they have a soul !
MortgageBlues: (November 24, 2009 10:32am)
Plus: The bad publicly from media coverage of Cuomo’s failed HVCC idea would only encourage congress to consider doing away with HVCC all together.
MortgageBlues: (November 24, 2009 10:28am)
What if some mortgage brokers, appraisers and home owners financially damaged by HVCC all got together and started picketing out in front of Cuomo’s office? And what if they vowed to keep picketing right up to election day? This I am sure would get Cuomo’s attention. Cuomo knows HVCC was a really bad idea and the last thing he wants is for the media to put the spotlight on his big mistake right before the election.
FLA Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 10:24am)
To Ancient Appraiser: please remind this newbie of the competency provision of USPAP. I thought AMC's were going to address this issue, and at least keep people in a 50 mile radius. I am on the west side of Orlando and appraisers from Cocoa Beach are coming over here. What is up with this bull crap.
App: (November 24, 2009 10:24am)
The HVCC needs to see the light of day shining on it and what better way to bring it to the publics attention than during his campaign for Gov. The petition would be a great weapon in the hands of his opponent. No deals. The HVCC is illegal and those of you that think something illegal just needs some tweaks to make it better, well, I question your ethics.
real appraiser: (November 24, 2009 10:23am)
App, hey I agree with your point. But you have to relax. The name calling is going to lose any support you have. We all agree it should go, But we all have differences in opinions. I think the appraisers should get a group together to fight this on their own. ANOTHER group of people fighting against this makes sense and could only do more to get rid of HVCC. But fighting with each other is not the answer. IF you or any other appraiser wants to fight this on our own, I AM IN. That does not mean I disagree or want out of TBWS. I like the fact of more groups against this. So quit the name calling and find a way to unite us, I am with you, but I will stay with TBWS also as long as they dont negotiate a deal for themselves or have another agenda like AI
App : (November 24, 2009 10:20am)
With Cuomo on the verge of running for governor of NY, this HVCC thing and it's illegality with a public investigation all over the newspapers and TV would show what a scam the HVCC is and most likely kill his chance to be Governor. Don't help him bury it as a campaign issue.
Sigmund the Sea Monster: (November 24, 2009 10:17am)
Frank and Brian.... Speaking as someone who signed the petition, I demand that you do my dry cleaning for the rest of the year!!!! Do not attempt to thwart me, oathbreakers!!!
clulessdad: (November 24, 2009 10:15am)
Rob in AZ-For FHA under 620, try First Mortgage-They lend in AZ. Rtaes are a bit higher, but they can get it done. Need Approve/Eligible and a max 45% DTI. My website is http://irvine.lpx.com/v40/BuildPage.aspx?Page=12
App: (November 24, 2009 10:15am)
OMG Ezra, are you an idiot or just ignoring what I'm posting?? Do you think Cuomo wants the HVCC to come to light during his run for Gov by his opponent? That alone, with an investigation, could kill his chances for Gov. Gawd. Put 2 and 2 together willya? Geez
App: (November 24, 2009 10:12am)
Frank - I'm going to say this one more time. You are not empowered by the petition to negotiate anything. If you plea deal with these assholes you're going to negate the power of those signatures and the will of the signers. Don't you realize that if you do make a deal Cuomo is going to go to Congress and talk to the Reps of 3126 and say, we made a deal. There's no need for you to end the HVCC - everyones happy on both sides. If you do negotiate anything at all make sure Cuomo's people know that you are speaking for yourselves alone and not the 120k signers of the petition. It's irresponsible of you to think we need anything more than delivery of the petition and reversal of the HVCC and irresponsible to think you are the ones to negotiate a deal. You are NOT empowered by those signatures to make a deal for 120k people!! Get it through your head!! You're going to screw everything up! Throw some suggestion out but don't sign any agreements. Sober up and hear what I'm saying
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 10:06am)
We have Cuomo by the balls? Hardly. In reality I doubt he considers us much of a threat at all. Let's take him at his word (hoping it wasn't just lip service) and offer up some good ideas. How about some workable solutions on this blog that Frank and Brian can offer?
Owl Tree: (November 24, 2009 10:02am)
My understanding was that TBWS was going to deliver a petition to Cuomo to repeal HVCC. From the evidence I have seen, that petition was indeed delivered to Cuomo's office. At that point, TBWS delivered on their promise. Signing a petition didn't give me the right to invoke the Power of Grayskull to command TBWS to do all my future bidding. But that's how some people are reacting right now. In case anyone missed it, let me be clear - I hate HVCC with the white hot passion of a thousand Suns. But that hatred won't get me far. Listen, I applaud and cheer on everyone who wants to go batsh#t crazy and launch lawsuits at Cuomo, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and the other assorted morons who have turned my industry into a clusterf#ck. But at some point, you need to let your SuperEgo prevail. If the customer owns the appraisal, and has choice in appraisal selection, who really gives a crap if it's still called "HVCC"? That's the point that I think a lot of people are missing.
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 10:02am)
Cuomo is man enough to admit when he is wrong? When was the last time you saw a politician do that? It's not his style.....to much of an ego. I'm up on the facts. The fact that the GSE's are in conservatorship may give us an opportunity to get something done. We just need to work with the powers in charge and that is not Cuomo. Stop being so idealistic about what's legal and what's not....we need to be realistic. This is politics plain and simple. All solutions require some compromise. If you are unwilling to compromise....you will lose everything in the process.
Frank Garay: (November 24, 2009 9:59am)
Man.. it amazes me how some people can't hear what we are saying! LISTEN to me. We will NEVER get HVCC removed from Cuomo's office - NEVER. But we CAN get it removed through CONGRESS. Our petition that was signed by you and passes around by you was used to get an amendment put into HR3126 by NAMB to REMOVE HVCC - HELLO! And it will continue to be used to lobby Congress in this way, so don't say we're not doing that. In the meantime, if we can get some kind of workable twist to HVCC through Cuomo's office... WHY NOT? It would be irresponsible for us to not entertain some sort of solution that makes appraisals portable, gets appraisers their full fee, and allows us to have local quality appraisers doing the job, right? TRUST ME.. no matter what we do, it WILL INVOLVE YOUR INPUT. So relax... have a cocktail... and try to hear what we're saying.
App: (November 24, 2009 9:57am)
I'm thinking Frank and Brian are getting a hero complex and it's going to their heads. They did their job and they did it great. Time to back out. Yes, owltree, they are free to act of their own accord and had better state they represent their own interests and not the interests of the 120k signers. Do you think Cuomo's office is under the assumption that the guys represent the 120k signatures? Of course they think that. If the guys give them reason to believe they are representing all the signers of the petition, we're going to get screwed and those signatures will end up in the garbage. Game over - we lose. They are not empowered by the petition to negotiate! Any negotiations will render the power of those signatures useless. We've got Cuomo by the balls, we have the power. What is the matter with you guys? Maybe you like living your life bent over for amc's and illegal activities and policies - I don't.
real appraiser: (November 24, 2009 9:54am)
Owl Tree: The fact is, we were all under the idea that this was a stop hvcc like the petition and TBWS sold every day prior to the meeting. The fact that you agree with a change in the promise is the issue. Do not say "burning candle at both ends" unless it means GETTING RID OF HVCC FROM EVERY ANGLE, no agreements to "fix", Cuomo got them to back down, that should have NEVER happened. Get rid of it first, then come up with a better solution later, for now GET RID OF IT.
Ancient Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 9:54am)
Since the HVCC put me out of the appraisal business I recently started RE sales. Just put a home under contract in Orlando, FL which will be a difficult assignment. The appraiser is a newbie from Tampa (approximately 80-90 miles) who called to find out where it is and about how long it will take to get here. So far so good ! She got the assignment with her program that captures HVCC assignments automatically so she doesn't have to wait by the phone ! So the HVCC closed one business and is screwing up another ! What a country !!
Owl Tree: (November 24, 2009 9:48am)
When TBWS delivered the petition to Cuomo's office, they also delivered on their promise. We signed a petition, not a proxy statement. TBWS is free to act in their own interests - which in this case, run parallel to mine. If people feel like TBWS is taking the wrong course, you've got every right to make your opinion known. But the idea that TBWS needs to check with 120,000 people for future direction is ludicrous. Like I said before, if someone has a better idea, run with it...but you need to seperate the petition - SIGNED, SEALED DELIVERED as promised - with future action, which include matters taken beyond the NY Attorney General's office.
CA-Appr: (November 24, 2009 9:44am)
We have got to start somewhere and soon.I believe the majority of appraisers would join. The $150 happy AMC hacks are a minority. Laws are being violated/ broken and our hard earned profession is in jeopordy. We can and would be heard. They can't just replace us, also quality and competence has to stand for something at the end of the day. Its not even a factor anymore. I am ready to get the ball rolling. I have plenty of time on my hands. I know a PERFECT, qualified person for the job that can/would speak for us and has many connections. Once we have a leader, then maybe we will see some support with these other agencies. IE-Appraisal Institute, The appraiser guild,OREA,media,etc. All this discussion is doing nothing. The legislative path is a long one and I don't know if any of us can survive that long.FRANK/BRIAN-Need to speak with you direct?
App: (November 24, 2009 9:41am)
OwlTree Better yet, run another petition for modification of the HVCC and see how many sign. At least then F & B would be empowered by those signatures to negotiate a modification. I won't sign it.
real appraiser: (November 24, 2009 9:39am)
I agree with most of what APP is saying. I said it the day of the meeting. Leaving the meeting with a agree to "fix" was a big mistake. Everyone here knows thqat that the original intent to STOP HVCC went to "make it better". You let up when they were concerned about more NEGATIVE PRESS. You should have stood you ground. Every avenue should be to get rid of HVCC, If you would just think about what you are saying, CUOMO won. You ent in saying"get rid of HVCC", you left with "good meeting, lets fix HVCC" sorry, lost respect for you guys and your mission unless you go back to "GET RID OF HVCC" thru all avenues possible. I agree with the APP and others. NO DEALS, GET RID OF HVCC!!!!
App: (November 24, 2009 9:39am)
Owl tree, fine - let frank and brian get permission from the 120k signers to do a modification with Cuomo's office. I've got no problem with that.
App: (November 24, 2009 9:36am)
Exactly MtgBlues: I'd imagine there's legal repercussions for portaying yourself as more than you are empowered to do. If F&B do it, I'll pay to find out.@Ezra: We do only have one choice. If you're honest and have been honest and ethical in your career and your life - you don't work or allow others to work under an illegal cartel. As I stated before, Cuomo doesn't have to lose face. Everyone knows a big man can admit when he's wrong. He suspends the HVCC for legal adoption saying it's only right. No face lost and he might even gain some respect for admitting he was wrong. Has he ever admitted he was wrong? Not that I know of. It might even help him win. Ezra, to tell the truth, you're not up enough on the facts to be offering your opinion for modification. The HVCC can not be challenged in a court of law as long as the GSE's are in conservatorship. Cuomo appears to be the only single individual capable of suspending it.
randy765: (November 24, 2009 9:34am)
a zillow ad? the appraisers thank you. no wonder your values are always off.
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 9:34am)
Thanks Owl Tree...at least you've got an understanding about how things really get accomplished.
clulessdad: (November 24, 2009 9:31am)
socal appraiser-Miller's office must be on Turkey Day break, I think. Before that I was able to get thru everytime I called. I was able to get an email dialogue with the Staff person who works with the House Financial Services Committee. She agreed to see Frank and Brian last Friday, however when I spoke with Frank, he didn't have the time to see her, however he said that he would probably call her. If you are part of the 42nd District, you can call his office and ask to get a personal meeting with Miller or get a personal meeting with her. It took me a week and a half to get her to respond after writing her a letter, email, voicemails and lastly a pretty rude email to which she finally wrote me back an answer. I promised her that I would not put her name in a blog, but if you want it and her email address, give me your email address and I will send it to you.
Owl Tree: (November 24, 2009 9:30am)
App...with all due respect, you arent' the only one who signed the petition. I signed the petition, along with many colleagues and clients that I sent the link to. The petition was delivered, as promised. At that point, the AG's office could have told TBWS to go #### off....but instead, they had a sit down and indicated they were open to suggestions. At that point, what did you expect them to do?....go Braveheart in the office and start knocking #### off the walls? I think TBWS is pursuing the proper strategy. This is a classic honey v. vinegar deal here. If you have such a hard time with the strategy, take action yourself. Come up with a plan, present it, and good luck.
Rachel : (November 24, 2009 9:30am)
I agree, if we make a deal with Cuomo, it could be the END and make the petition worthless. HVCC is wrong and unconsitutional. Do you think your senator, your doctor, your lawyer would work for a 3rd party??? Would they let a 3 party control their fees, clients, and overall livelihood??? NOOOO
The answer to this problem is enforcement!! We have the enforcers in place. Hike up penalties and include jail time for mortgage brokers/ appraisers that violate the rules and let the rest of us get back to work!!! Frank and Brian this is what you need to say to Cuomo. I feel no one gets it. Pressure from lenders will always be there. You can't get rid of it. All this has done is switch the pressure to the AMC's. Does any appraiser out there feel totally pressure free when working with a AMC??? humm?? That AMC reviewers don't come back and suggest adjustment changes or the famous, we found these comps, why didn't you use them. hummm?? No presure right??
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 9:25am)
App: So, you're take on the situation is we only have one choice...total surrender by Cuomo? You must know that will never happen. There are forces at work much larger than ours. Did he use illegal means to pass the HVCC? Maybe....that angle should be pursued. Are there issues regarding anti-trust...pursue that as well. How about RESPA violations...we can work on that too. Those are issues to be addressed outside of his office. In the meantime we can facilitate changes to the HVCC that will keep us in business until the other problems are solved. How about getting COD back on the table and negotiating fees with the borrower? Let the lender pay the AMC since they are the ones asking for that service. Help us by coming up with realistic solutions that may be acceptable to both sides.
MortgageBlues: (November 24, 2009 9:21am)
If Brian and Frank want to discuss HVCC modifications with Cuomo’s office they may need to formally separate themselves from the 120K petition signers. It would be interesting to know what an attorney would say about this matter. The petition only calls for ending HVCC so if Brian and Frank want to offer opinions which differ from the original purpose of the petition they may need to state for the record that their opinions are solely their own and they do not represent the opinions of 120K petition signers.
App: (November 24, 2009 9:19am)
Thanks Rob - I'm sure most signers feel that way. It's illegal and doesn't deserve any respect to be treated as more than what it is or given any further consideration. It needs to go legal or just go
CornerstoneKathy: (November 24, 2009 9:18am)
CA I agree. All of this has been done in voluntering..Lord knows we have time. When I unloaded those boxes at Cuomos office all I could think is that this cost TBWS alot of money, time, paper ink, a hotel room and then these were Fed Exd here..not cheap!! For that they get some thanks but take alot of heat to the point that I wanted to ask "why would you put yourself through this every day?" Obviously we here are already passionate about our fight. NJ has alot of supporters for a union but I have talked to alot of people who either complain that they are Republicans and cant support being unionized or worse they dont want to admit out loud that they never got their own work before and couldnt be happier with $150 a deal. It gets disheartening. $60k passionate viewers $150 a head $9 mill in the bank tons of volunteers across the country..we would be heard
Lender: (November 24, 2009 9:12am)
Last week Bloomberg reported month over month sales were the lowest in 12 years. This week we have the highest number of sales in 2 years....Which is it? These economic reports coming out are revised so much (For the worse too) it's hard to believe the accuracy any longer. It's all about tweaking Wall Street numbers for a day I guess.
App: (November 24, 2009 9:12am)
Start another petition for modification of the HVCC and take that to Cuomo - that would empower you to speak on the signers behalf. You think anybody would sign? If you're thinking of making a deal with 120k signatures for reversal of the HVCC you are not speaking on my behalf or on the behalf of the signers. You are doing it of your own will without endorsement. Make sure Cuomos people know that you are just speaking for a handful of people. Get your modification of the HVCC petition going. You're going to need at least a few thousand signatures to impress Cuomo enough to give you an audience. Play fair, don't betray the trust of the signers because you feel like playing hero.
CA-Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 9:10am)
FYI, the $100, $150 would go for expenses ONLY. No salaries. Many of us would donate our time. Effective/transparent spending so we can really make this work. NOW is the time.
Alabama Country Boy: (November 24, 2009 9:08am)
Whether any of us want to acknowledge it or not, we have a global economy and nothing should make that any more clear than the world class melt down of the financial systems. There is no one that has not felt the effects. Who do we trust to manage a fund of this size? I sure do not know. I am in favor of something in the way of safe guards and every player having money in the fund. Money is used to buy things and services and is not an end product. We must be able to negotiate and trade globally and a monetary system is how we do that. I do not want the U.S. being stuck with funding it but we need something. Greed creates greed. Jealousy creates greed. Power creates and enables greed. Whom do we trust? No one, and rightfully so. Could we ever elect a public official that was principled, honest, and above all this. It isn't likely. Trade offs have to be made to be elected. Let's just try to do what we do right, honestly, and for a fair return. Hey, this has to start somewhere.
Lender: (November 24, 2009 9:06am)
Frank...If you're busy with all the sales activity due to this new release of home sales, why did you recently dump lending after 23 years of lending employment during this so-called jump in activity? I think you're being a little mis-leading.
Rob in AZ: (November 24, 2009 9:04am)
App's arguments have convinced me that he's right. Cuomo overstepped and must back off 100%. Either/or, no deals.
CA-Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 9:02am)
Am I wrong in assuming that most appraisers would agree to a union, be willing to pay a minimal $100 to $150 fee/ or pledge it if you are broke and take just 1 month off to change everything quickly. Simple and effective. That is all it would take. They can't do it without us.Frank/Brian- I swear I have the guy you should at least talk to.He is the perfect leader for us appraisers. No joke. Frank/ Brian, How can I put you in touch for a talk?
App: (November 24, 2009 9:00am)
I just don't understand that you guys don't see the power that we have. Cuomo does not want this to come up in his run for Gov. Are fkn kidding me that you want to help him??!!
App : (November 24, 2009 8:58am)
Brain - this is a warning. Leave it alone and don't make any deals with Cuomo. You're going to kill the power of 120k signatures for a temporary satisfaction. It's illegal and it needs to go. If you make a deal with Cuomo and screw this up, I will pursue legals means if there are any. You've done such good work, why ruin it now? Don't try to be a hero - you did a good job, leave it at that. No deals. No modifications. It's illegal
FLA Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 8:52am)
RE: Appraiser's Union...where do I sign? We need a voice. Despite high dues to some of these "professional" organizations, we are hung out to dry with a total lack of representation. These professional organizations exist to mail out glossy magazines full of advertisements. Once again, for things the average appraiser can no longer afford!!!
App: (November 24, 2009 8:51am)
Brian - leave it alone. You were not given any power to make deals. Leave it alone
App: (November 24, 2009 8:50am)
Positive changes or any modifications agreed to will bury it and it will be useless to use against Cuomo in his Gov run. We have power with 120k signatures, don't dilute it by suggesting modifications! You're willing to work under an illegal doctrine Ezra, I'm not. I've made my stand and bankruptcy is in my future - as it is with a lot of appraisers that refuse to work for amc's. Stop it with this whimpy attitude that modifications can help us. Don't you think Cuomo is going to go to Congress and say, hey, no need for Hr 1728, 3004 & 3126 - we worked out a deal!! Screw that. We need it gone - it's illegal. Maybe you like working under an illegal tenet but I refuse to. Sad part is the HVCC has made many appraisers ho's that are willing to take any tidbits from the floor to improve their condition. Live and work on your feet as free and independent contractors or don't work at all. The whole thing disgusts me. We're at the goal line and you want to punt?!
brian tbws: (November 24, 2009 8:48am)
Ezradams is right. Lets burn the candle at both ends. Work with Cuomo's office regardless of his intentions and hit the legislative end of things. Thanks Guys
CornerstoneKathy: (November 24, 2009 8:47am)
I say if there are 120 k signatures and 60 k viewers of the show then lets start a fund right here..screw waiting for appraisers or LOs to solidly unify..lets start our own TBWS trade organization get our own lawyers and lobbyists at $150 a person 60k viewers well thats 9 million bucks or we could just get rate alert
desert broker: (November 24, 2009 8:47am)
Sorry guys, zillow is so unreliable! We have seen it over $100,000 higher in value in our area then the homes are actually selling for.
Appr.: (November 24, 2009 8:42am)
I agree with a Union. We can change these illegal activities that are ruining our profession. Who do I pay and where do I sign. I know that I would get on the phone personally and call every appraiser in my area.Most would be happy to do something!!!!We need to quit talking and start performing. Unified we have a voice.
Treg: (November 24, 2009 8:40am)
With the power to tax (for whatever the reason) comes the power to raise armies (for whatever reason) and enforce laws (ANY kind of laws)…. And so soon with the power to tax the world and raise a one world army, a World Government will have arrived. As if Mankind has not learned the lessons of Roman Empire, the Egyptian Emperor, the Chinese Empires, etc, let it be known that the rarest moment in the history of Mankind, that is Lady Liberty’s light of freedom over mother America, will soon to be over.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=116256
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 8:37am)
At some point we need to get realistic about the petition and HVCC. Wouldn't it be nice to live in a fantasy land where all our dreams came true.....we don't. As far as Cuomo is concerned, the HVCC is in the past, something he'd rather not revisit. If we can get his office to make positive changes, at least we win something. Now let's work on making it a significant win. On the other hand, we need to keep working toward a solution (end of HVCC) through federal means. I would like this to go away as much as the rest of you. I've lost 16 years of goodwill since May 1st.
SoCal Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 8:35am)
BOTTOM LINE ON ZILLOW: If you are working in an area that has all cookie cutter homes, built in a narrow range of time, on similar sized lots then Zillow is a great tool. However, the minute you get into an area that has variable terrain, views, diverse years built, locational influence, etc. you can throw Zillow in the trash. Read the fine print on their disclaimer...... "Zillow.com does not offer the Zestimate as the basis of any specific real-estate-related financial transaction. OUR DATA SOURCES MAY BE INCOMPLETE OR INCORRECT; also, we have not physically inspected a specific home. Remember, the Zestimate is a starting point and DOES NOT CONSIDER ALL THE MARKET INTRICACIES that can determine the actual price a house will sell for," The minute a client of mine mentions a "zillow" value I have to take a deep breathe and spend the next 10 minutes explaining why Zillow is not a reliable source of data form my area. Not bashing zillow, just know when its usefull and when it is not!!
App: (November 24, 2009 8:31am)
Ezra: To me, an illegal document that dictates public policy by the GSE's to serve self-interests (bankster interests) is intolerable in all forms. How can you make something illegal more pallatable? You can't (unless you're a crook). It needs to pass through legal channels to prove it's enactment is in the best interest of the consumer and the public. I can live with it if it can pass public scrutiny in that manner. There is no deal. Either the reverse the HVCC or take it through legal channels to prove it's worth considering. I'm sorry Ezra, but that whimpy attitiude about modification will not help us. You are suggesting betraying all 120k signers of the petition. For shame
rodney: (November 24, 2009 8:29am)
Give the 120k names collected to the person running against Cuomo, what are we waiting for.
HVCC must go, it is killing the consumer.
CA-Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 8:23am)
I called Congressman Millers office yesterday, left messagee and also Appraisal Institute Pres. Jim Amorin, who was not available. Sooooo quiet at the A.I. I forwarded him this link. Unlikely he will read it. CA independent fee appraiser. Sad fee, NO independence.AMC's are at the helm. They are calling the shots. Speak up and you are out. Happened to me. ALL appraiser's need to organize, start a Union, pay a small fee and agree to not work for an agreed upon month. That would shake things up. Even the threat of it would bring them to their knees. We appraisers need a union now. I know just the guy that can and would make it happen. Big gun, 30 year AG appraiser, broker, general contractor,teacher, Loads of bank connections. Would donate his time. He is hard core and very well respected.Retired now, investor, hard money lender so is not swayed and doesn't need the money, but has the plan and the time to execute.We have the power to change things.Frank/Brian-how do I put you in touch?
App: (November 24, 2009 8:23am)
Ezra-see it for what it is. He wants to bury this issue so it doesn't interfere with his run for Gov. We have him by the short hairs. We make any kind of deal and we lost that advantage. 120k signatures against a Cuomo agreement would be great fodder in the hands of his opponent. NO DEALS! Don't screw it up. When it comes to the spotlight because of his race for Gov, it'll be exposed as the scam it is. Let the sunlight of day shine on it, don't make deals to keep it hidden. Back off, stick to the terms of the petition.
dan c: (November 24, 2009 8:21am)
I agree i didnt pass around a petition to suck up to cuomo and change hvcc I signed one to eliminate hvcc, ...
MortgageBlues: (November 24, 2009 8:18am)
APP-You are so right. I signed a petition to end HVCC not a petition to help Cuomo make HVCC better. I realize Frank and Brian that you have generously volunteered to take on HVCC with our support and your efforts up until now are most appreciated. But, negotiating for anything less than what the petition was about completely nullifies the original intent of all those signatures. If you want to start a new petition entitled ‘Revising HVCC’ go right ahead. However, I prefer to stick with the get rid of HVCC petition I already signed.
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 8:18am)
App,
Listen to what frank is saying. TBWS will continue to support the trashing of the HVCC through other means. But, if all else fails, significant changes to the HVCC that are at least tolerable to appraisers and brokers would be a positive step. We need to work as many angles as possible.
SoCal Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 8:15am)
Tee/Apppraiser (if you are still out there) the good news is that just a few days ago, the requirement for 2nd appraisals in declining markets was rescinded by FHA so you do not have to worry about that.
FLA Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 8:06am)
To Hammer - appraisers ARE trying to expand our horizons. There is only so much work out there. I have gone from 99% lender clients to 50% lender clients. I have the most solid reputation in my town so I AM getting the new non-lender clients. HVCC takes the lion's share of the appraisal work that would be available in the marketplace, period, and makes it unavailable to appraiser's in any way that would be considered "normal" business pratice. I agree it's the free market and if appraisers want to work for AMC's for peanuts that's what they will get paid. But AMCs need to be regulated and their fees disclosed, so the public can see the rip-off. What do you do for a living? Whatever it is, if it's not a government job you can soon kiss your security goodbye. Be prepared to take a 50% pay cut and watch your family's security, retirement, health insurance, fade away as you can no longer afford these things. It's coming to every private industry. Good luck!
App: (November 24, 2009 8:05am)
If Cuomo want to show he's a big man and can admit he's wrong by suspending the HVCC, so that it can pass the Administrative Procedures Act (APA) and the Regulatory Flexibility Act (RFA) as required of rules issued by administrative agencies of the federal government - then that could be considered holding to the terms of reversing of the HVCC in the petition. Any deals less than this is a betrayal of public trust. Maybe I'm getting over excited about it, but you guys don't know who you're dealing with. Cuomo and his people are sharks, they'll use you, abuse you and throw you away. NY AG's and lawyers are different kind of players - Stay away. No deals
App: (November 24, 2009 7:55am)
Reversal of the HVCC is yours and our only concern.
App: (November 24, 2009 7:53am)
I can't relax if deals are going to be made behind the scenes without our approval. Meaning the approval of the 120k signers. There is no more empowerment than reversal of the HVCC. Do not over step your bounds on what you are entitled to do. Reversal of the HVCC is your only concern. No deals! You guys got me worried. Especially after your leader starts out with a sensationalist statement about "appraisal fraud" - a statement not founded in fact. I'm not sure if there's a law against using a petition to establish contact and then to make deals beyond the scope of that petition. You guys make a deal with Cuomo, I'm going to look into it. It's betraying of the public trust, I know that. Cuomo doesn't want the HVCC to become a hot button item in his run for Gov so he's trying to make a deal to bury it. Back off Frank and friends. We don't need anything more from you than delivery of the petition.
Joe Parsons: (November 24, 2009 7:45am)
Bill Club: Projecting, much?
PO'd: (November 24, 2009 7:44am)
ZILLOW is French for: "I don't know what the *uck your value is".
To App:: (November 24, 2009 7:44am)
Relax App. Speaking to Cuomo is not the end game. Just keep getting people to sign the petition and contacting thier Congressmen...
God: (November 24, 2009 7:39am)
OK, I've had 3 different people read that Zillow page and they all think that Zillow shows that every part of the country has had a 17-31% increase in value.
App: (November 24, 2009 7:33am)
Frank, do not take it upon yourself to do a deal with Cuomo. 120k people signed the petition to REVERSE the HVCC. You weren't elected to speak for us & to make a deal. The signatures were for the petition only. Stick to that. If you try to make a deal you're going to screw everything up. I personally will call Cuomo & tell them you were not elected to speak for me. I urge everyone else to call & disavow any relationship with Frank and whatever his people come up with as a modification of the HVCC with Cuomo's people. You are not empowered by 120k signatures to do any deals. With Cuomo running for Gov, making a deal to help him bury it as an issue is the stupidest thing you could do. If your people are lawyers they're going to want to make a deal as that's how they get paid. Look, WE GOT CUOMO! He doesn't want the HVCC coming up. Back off! YOU DON'T HAVE OUR BACKS. Stick with reversal of the HVCC, that is all you're empowered to do. Don't betray the signers. Rep Miller-WHAT HAPPENED?
Rob in AZ: (November 24, 2009 7:28am)
SF: can you really broker a deal with a 565 score? to whom? my investors all are at 620 or higher even on FHA... Thanks.
Brokers Rule: (November 24, 2009 7:25am)
Interesting idea...Back to work trying to get rid of HVCC.
SF Big Dawg: (November 24, 2009 7:22am)
Sorry about the spelling that's what you get for responding while you are talking to your processor.
Rob in AZ: (November 24, 2009 7:21am)
OK so the British want to impose a worldwide tax on Banks and unify them all under a global FDIC-type system? Let me guess--the British would have several seats at the table, as would their across-the-pond allies, the Americans. It it just me or does this not smack of the re-emergence of the British Empire? Years ago they controlled 1/2 the world through military power. Now they would control all the world through economic power. (FYI Geithner has said on camera that he expects a world currency to replace the dollar. Any noises he makes about supporting US sovereignty are a ruse, similar to his protestations he didn't realize he owed taxes on his income.)
SF Big Dawg: (November 24, 2009 7:21am)
Billy Club is correct. The other day my girlfriend was listening to me talk to a realtor about someone with a 565 score and when I hung up she asked what will their rate be? When I told her that it would be the same as she just got at closing she was pissed. "I have a 760 score and perfect credit and I get the same rate?" I do think we need to go back to the old days but with a twist. Instead of a B/C deal and an arm make them 30 year fixed rates. Bad score higher rate but you get a loan that will stay the same and not go up. Get better credit refi. As far as keeping wall street out of this.... NO WAY. The banks will run out of cash and then we will be never get out of this. Yesterday there was a post about stated income loans. If we brought them back at 80% and had to be self employed and show assets that would help move things along as well. If we want to see real stides forward on the economy housing had to lead the way and Billy is right Fannie and FHA won't get it done
Anonymous: (November 24, 2009 7:18am)
Is "BillyClub" really Andrew Cuomo?
John: (November 24, 2009 7:12am)
God- you know it all, as the ruler from above, can't you read?
God: (November 24, 2009 7:10am)
I need to have my eyes checked. That Zillow page seems to say that every area had a value increase. To me it says that every area of the country had from a 17% to a 31% increase. What am I reading wrong?
St Pauly Girl: (November 24, 2009 7:07am)
@ BillyClub-
I didn't uncover/understand your answer/solution from your post. Please share your insight.
Envious: (November 24, 2009 7:05am)
Rate Alert keeps you regular!!
Elefant: (November 24, 2009 7:03am)
Boy I'm sure glad I live in an area that's in the 22%!!
James the Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 7:02am)
WHy does the AMC care if the loan goes through or not any way? They got paid, I got Paid and if the Lender does not wish to make the loan - SO WHAT
James the Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 7:00am)
More - I told the AMC that the Lender/Underwriter/Inverstor and the Seller/Buyer would have to reach common ground using my list that they asked for. If they do and send me a list of what I NEED to inspect for as Completed and what items they don't need to make this loan, items I should note as not required for inspection by all, I would be happy to do that, for $150 more on a 442 report
James the Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 6:57am)
I just completed, a month ago, a report on a DUMP. Made the report SUBJECT TO about 6 items including a home inspection, typical. The Lender came back and asked for a room-by-room list of items that need to be fixed/repaired/replaced to bring the subject to AS IS CONDITION. So I made the list Room-by-Room. Now the Lender and Seller/Buyer can not reach common ground on the work that I called for and the AMC is telling me how to change the report to get it past every one so the deal can go through, WHAT
BillyClub: (November 24, 2009 6:55am)
Petitions? Writing your congressman? Are you kidding? Remember the million man march a couple years ago? Do you realize what they accomplished in that gathering? NOTHING!!! Was there policy change? Was anyone stripped from office? You know what they proved? They proved that you can get a couple million guys in a park. That's it. If I was in Washington at the time I would have delivered a few thousand Frisbee's so their trip wasn't wasted. The answewrs to this whole debacle and your businesses is right in front of you. You are already using or have access to everything you need to eliminate your competition. Think about this; your prospects are only prospects and not customers because they don't trust you, respect you or view you as an authority in your own industry. Know why? Because you are like every other commodity broker; you have nothing to offer except rate, payment and fees. Find a real solution for your customers problems and you might make it.
Tee: (November 24, 2009 6:47am)
Tee/appraiser
If I had work, I would be too busy to be reading these blogs. i just asked my husband if he needs help at work. I guess I am gettting desperate.
BillyClub: (November 24, 2009 6:44am)
When are people going to figure this whole thing out? Hello???!!! If we want to see recovery, if we want to see homeowners become active again in the market, YOU HAVE TO HELP THEM BECOME STRONGER! Conventional loans ARE NOT the answer! Conventional practice is not the answer! Have you not heard the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different response. Everyone who reads this post ask yourself; Am I really doing anything different today than I was a year ago? Wake up folks, you will all be wearing paper hats and saying "would you like fries with that?" if you don't start focusing on solutions for the home owner instead of finding solutions for your own wallet. Hint, hint; conventional loans and conventional practice ain't the answer.
MS: (November 24, 2009 6:43am)
Hammer, where are you? There is nothing I would like more that to come punch you in the nose.
Lil Broker: (November 24, 2009 6:41am)
Did anyone else see Good Morning America today? They actually had Cuomo's son, Chris, reporting on decreasing home values! Why don't you guys go on the show with the 120,000 signatures? Let's see if they will do some fair journalism for the American people. Tell them that their own attorney general is responsible for every red blooded American homeowners value being decreased. He's the reason people can't refi and take advantage of today's low rates. Let's take this media. Especially since Cuomo didn't even have the kahoneys to meet with you personally.
Ezradams: (November 24, 2009 6:36am)
Kathy, Funny you should mention tax appeal and divorce assignments. I have 3 tax appeals and 1 divorce assignment this week....no mortgage work! (Most work I've had in months.)
[email protected]
Hammer - sick and tired of the whining: (November 24, 2009 6:27am)
Hey, here is a new website for all the posters these days............ www.whinyappraisers.com .
Look - life is tough. Put on your big boy/girl pants and do something. I don't care that you have to work for less; I don't care that you have to work for an amc; I don't care that you don't know enough to stop complaining and go find people who AREN'T using HVCC and market to them; Geesh, on Thanksgiving this year, try giving some thanks for what you DO have.........
tee/appraiser: (November 24, 2009 6:27am)
to FLA appraiser.You just reminded me I have to cough up 300 dollars for my lisence renewel this month. In the good old days 1 appraisal would have covered the cost. Not anymore. Here is a funny story. I had a homeowner call me and said because I checked off declining market,the bank wants a second appraisal for a FHA loan and they are charging her $450.00 for another appraisal. $450, thats a far cry from what I got paid.
Deedie: (November 24, 2009 6:22am)
Why don't we get together with all of the signatures on the petition and demand that a special prosecutor be appointed to investigate Mr. Cuomo and his cronies? As with the
Bloomberg News Service provided yesterday.
To contact the reporters on this story: Karen Freifeld in New York at [email protected] ; Linda Sandler in New York at [email protected] .
Last Updated: November 23, 2009 00:01 EST
How many people read the article
?
FLA Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 6:17am)
To Tee appraiser from FLA appraiser - we cancelled Christmas this year - we just informed the family we are too broke to buy gifts. We used to save for retirement and have a secure life. Like you said - minimum wage, no benefits. We work 7 days per week and live paycheck to paycheck on the fees we get these days. If I did not have 20 years in the biz and spent so much $$ on my licensing and education I would go find another job. Oh wait, there ARE no other jobs. I think that is the only reason a lot of appraisers are still fighting the fight. When the job market gets better, I think many will leave. It sucks making low wage and having absolutely no benefits, safety net, etc. as an independent contractor. Mtg. brokers and Realtors are in the same boat. The next round of TARP should go to folks like us. Somewhere between the leeches who never work but get a monthly check, and the fat cats who spent the bailout on themselves, the hard working middle class got totally screwed.
tee/appraiser: (November 24, 2009 6:09am)
well everyone, I guess I will have to shop for the holidays, maybe I should be shoppping for a job to help pay for the presents. My fax isnt ringing, my phone isnt ringing. And when the phone does ring and give a fee quote, it doesnt ring twice. I guess some appraiser outbid me. The HVCC killed the profession. Its just a job now, minium wage, with no benefits.
FLA Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 5:57am)
Frank, I am ashamed that the Appraisal Institute is not assisting your efforts. Please be aware that many, many appraisers watch you every morning and have connected others in the real estate industry with your site. We feel abandoned by the Institute and are very disappointed in their lack of a voice on behalf of their dues paying members. I want to thank all of the other organizations for their efforts to bring this back to a free market with many choices for all involved. It will be a scary world when it's run by two or three big banks that make ALL of the rules and treat everyone like a number. Gone will be mortgage brokers, independent appraisers, and likely independent real estate agents, as well, if the big banks can "manage" them - tell them who gets what work and for how much, etc. etc. We are headed down a scary path - thanks for trying to stop that!
Jersey Girl: (November 24, 2009 5:56am)
B&F TBWS: Have a GREAT Thanksgiving! Thanks for everything you've been doing. Let's hope things get better! I think Mabel should visit us next week. ;)
Frank Garay: (November 24, 2009 5:54am)
Uh... I didn't say I was for it Nuke. I just made it clear what they were proposing.
Nuke 'em 'til they Glow: (November 24, 2009 5:50am)
Global Bank Levy is a bunch of Prairie Patties! Let the banks fail and those who are responsible Pay! Frank Since turning to the dark side I think you are turning Commie! Brian is right.
Frank Garay: (November 24, 2009 5:42am)
We are having a chat today with our big guys. We'll be involving appraisers in these talks as well. If you're an appraiser, YOU'RE RIGHT! You deserve to be able to market yourself to whoever you want! Hang in there guys, we got your back on this. For the rest of us..... "pick up the phone"..... time is running out.
FLA Appraiser: (November 24, 2009 4:49am)
Frustrated - I feel your pain. I have been working in a small community for 20 years as an appraiser. I attend local board of Realtors meetings & caravans, local "economic summits", am a supporter of our local downtown renovation, shop locally, bank locally, etc. I grew up here. Now all of my clients tell me their appraisals are being done (thanks to the HVCC) by appraisers from two counties (or more) away. 20 years of community involvment, relationship building, gaining the trust of local lending decision makers, GONE. Oh, they call me for their bank foreclosed properties, because they need to REALLY know what the property can sell for in this market. They know the guy from two counties away is clueless, he just had a target contract price and found comps, any comps, with net & gross adjustments that keep Fannie happy, for his AMC/HVCC compliant appraisal. How can this happen in America?
Noel Cookman: (November 24, 2009 4:37am)
One option on the Global Levy that was not in your survey is "No way in H**l!" The reason - what will the politicians and bureaucrats do with this "fund?" They'll do what they have always done with a slush fund - they morph it into pork and spend it. I don't trust ANYONE with such a fund.
CornerstoneKathy: (November 24, 2009 4:37am)
Dear Frustrated, I agree it stinks BUT if you were able to go out before and market yourself to banks and brokers then reinvent yourself this year to get yourself through. This will be the best year for tax appeals, bankruptcy appraisals and sad to say but divorces. Market yourself right to the consumer, realtors and attorneys. The best news is no MC form, no Fannie guides and no HVCC. It will make you feel better for today if it doesnt then buy rate alert!
Just sayin': (November 24, 2009 4:01am)
I have an idea...why don't we just keep the Wall Street firms OUT of the mortgage business and let them focus on what taking everyone's money by other means. A global bank levy would just create more government bureaucracy which would lead to higher taxation to pay for such bureaucracy, so the taxpayer would not be protected by the levy regardless. Either we are paying to fund the governmental control of the bank or we are bailing out the banks when they screw up...a lose-lose for the consumer. Then again, the consumer is never the focal point of governmental legislation and bureaucracy. Why don't we hold the Wall Street accountable for the mess that was created when they all decided to peddle the MBS? The MBS created such a mess in England where it was initially created. Sure, it made the investment banks a lot of money, but left the housing market and financial markets in shambles. So widely successful, let's bring it to America and sell it on the global scale...great idea.Just sayin
frustrated.: (November 24, 2009 3:54am)
I'm not getting more business so I must be doing "something wrong", as Frank Says... Oh, yeah, I'm an appraiser who must wait by the phone for some "gracious" AMC to send me work, as I can no longer MARKET my services.... And since I REFUSE to accept the insulting AMC fees, I guess that gives me more time to sit by the phone...waiting.... Maybe one day my fairy godmother will appear to to get me out of this BS mess.... CAN'T MARKET MY EXPERIENCE, QUALITY, AND PROFESSIONALISM, who ever thought it would come to this... you only get work if you agree to slut yourself for near minimum wage, after your fees and hourly time is calculated.
Links & Docs
Video Poll
Do you think a "Global Bank Levy" is a good way to pay for future bank bailouts?
