TBWS - Video Marketing and Mortgage News Designed for Mortgage and Real Estate Sales

Hard*ss: (November 30, 2009 5:44pm)

joecolorado, you're whining. My income was crushed like everyone else. I adapated and it sounds as though you didn't. In this market you had better be ready to make changes. These guys give some good heads up info. Use it. Find a way to make it work in your market or change proffesion.

joecolorado: (November 30, 2009 4:58pm)

keep up the good work F & B...great site, enjoy looking and participating.

brian tbws: (November 30, 2009 4:56pm)

Thanks FMC I look forward to your input. You've closed a couple deals for me one fairly quick one a bit longer. But like I said, they were both VERY DIFFICULT & you guys stepped up. Keep pluggin our industry needs it.

joecolorado: (November 30, 2009 4:55pm)

Bono Vox...first off you need to change your sign in name as it belies what you are actually preaching....as it looks like you are bitchin about something...so let me get this straight, its ok for you to bitch but not ok for someone else to have a cow...and as for hard*ass.... man....give me a break, when you start to lose your income flow, please, please, please come to us for a sympathetic ear....we will gladly repay in kind....now I will really make you mad as I am signing off before you can get your two cents in, but dont worry.....I'll be back at some point through the week,may not see your response, but you will still be able to vent....

brian tbws: (November 30, 2009 4:53pm)

Bono Vox. True but thats always been the case. Check with your local little banks and C.U.'s. They may be your best be & you might lose the deal. However your client may get his place. Flip side, should they buy a place that's so hard to get insurance on. Maybe not. I'm sure you'll give good advice either way.

FMC LO: (November 30, 2009 4:46pm)

Hey guys I am with First Mortgage Retail. We originate to the true letter of the 4155. No overlays, no nonsense...Brian is correct we are about .375 off but who else is going to fund that 520 fico. Or that borrower with NO FICO Score and No Alt Tradeline, Only FMC. We also have our very own inhouse, down payment assistance program. 99.5% financing, and we don't run out of money like those other gov't programs. Anyways, sorry about the plug everyone.............. hit me up if you have any [email protected]

FMC LO: (November 30, 2009 4:45pm)

Hey guys I am with First Mortgage Retail. We originate to the true letter of the 4155. No overlays, no nonsense...Brian is correct we are about .375 off but who else is going to fund that 520 fico. Or that borrower with NO FICO Score and No Alt Tradeline, Only FMC. We also have our very own inhouse, down payment assistance program. 99.5% financing, and we don't run out of money like those other gov't programs. Anyways, sorry about the plug everyone.............. hit me up if you have any [email protected]

Bono Vox: (November 30, 2009 4:05pm)

We'll do them under 580, so I'm ok there. Thanks. I'll tell you what's killing me now: condos. Had a perfect condo deal, but there was litigation of $250k. The ins policiy is $1MM per incident, but the insurance company's attorney refused to write a letter detailing the situation and reasonable max liability, so I had to kill it. Couldn't find any of my other lending buddies to take it either. @#$! attorneys. I called a buddy who is a atty partner, and reps ins co's. He said her writes those letters every week, I just hit on a condo project with a bad atty. @#@$!

Wog: (November 30, 2009 4:01pm)

I agree that it would be nice to see more positive comments on this discuss board. I'll admit that I am guilty of being pessimitic. i am not an appraiser but am a thirty year veteran of the mortgage industry and I enjoy this board. Frank and Brian put out a news item and we react. it's quick and powerful. we just need to turn it into action instead or reaction.

brian tbws: (November 30, 2009 3:52pm)

Hi Bono Vox: On the west coast there is a company called "first mortgage" and they will do 580 fha deals. HOWEVER they are hit or miss with the file. Think about it, they're dealing with crappy borrowers & tough clients. Their pricing is .375 out, but they go where others wont. Anyone got a west coast fha lender with rapid turn times. Thats always good

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 3:37pm)

Thanks Bono... I'll check it out. Appreciate it.

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 3:36pm)

Hard and Bono - I hear ya and I'm with ya. That's why I'm the "sales tip" guy. I always put in a sales tip when we can to at least motivate or inspire a little. Just be different Hard.. put in some positive motivating posts in the midst of the negative... I'll chime in with you!

Bono Vox: (November 30, 2009 3:32pm)

MARKETING: A buddy of mine has a cool new technology that I can't use because my Big Bank is afraid of individuality. Something about compliance and not trusting me. (Or that was my wife's comment about me...) Check it out. It's pretty cheap too. FRANK/BRIAN - This may be up your alley. http://www.websiterepresentative.com/

Bono Vox: (November 30, 2009 3:30pm)

Thanks, Frank. Hard*ss = I work for a big bank. It would be a full time job to track and fight every stupid thing they do. I just figure out the new rules, the new angles, and go make another sales call, go find another loan......

CornerstoneKathy: (November 30, 2009 3:26pm)

No one except a licensed appraiser should be able to collect any portion of the appraisal fee and any loan officer licensed by the SAFE ACT should be able to speak to a state licensed appraiser. That would fix the HVCC issue. I think all the appraisers on this site would be the first ones to help the LOs out when the crap hits the fan on your yield spead issue even though I dont quite understand it all.. I would be there to help. I dont think that we ALL are whining and no one expects it to go back to what it was. I a hoping this is my year for tax appeals!!

Hard*ss: (November 30, 2009 3:23pm)

Frank, I would check in more often it we all traded ideas and pointers on how to find our way through this market as a realtor & mortgage broker. Unfortunatley it is becoming more and more the same old stuff. I work at least 10hr days 6 days a week. I don't like it but it takes a lot of time to find something that works in this market. We can help each other or whine. What is it going to be?

Hard*ss: (November 30, 2009 3:19pm)

Thanks Bono Vox. I check in every once and awhile. Still full of whinners. Boys on the video poll it is none of the above. You expend too much energy on things you cannot change. Put it use and earn some money.

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 3:16pm)

Bono and Hard... I get what you mean for sure.. the appraisers on this site, have nowhere else to go to get through this HVCC mess, and since we're strongly participating in the charge to end it, they've made this blog their home. But the truth is, it's your blog too, and every post you make with what you envision this blog to be, get's it closer to that reality. So don't worry about the other stuff and post away. There are many people who share the same thoughts and nothing is stopping anyone from posting those thoughts. Just jump in... there's room for everyone.

Bono Vox: (November 30, 2009 3:00pm)

Hard*ss: A blogger after mine own heart.

Bono Vox: (November 30, 2009 2:58pm)

L. BADTEN - Cool idea. Who is going to buy all of those loans as investors currently won't buy below 580 or 620, depending on the day? Plus, based on FHA's currently delinquency rate, the current 4155 without overlays wasn't a "best business practice". FRANK/BRIAN - this blog is dedicated to two lines of thought: "HVCC" and "Let's make big banks and the gov't do this pipe dream". How about a second blog for Mortgage Bankers/Brokers who are doing well and want to do better?

Hard*ss: (November 30, 2009 2:49pm)

You should rename this site. The only people contributing are appraisers. Sorry to see them getting the short end. I have 35 short sales in November. Yes business in difficulct. But we need to adapt or be left behind. It looks like from the blogg this is where they go. Quit whinning & Get to work. Know what's coming and change, adapt or get out of the way. It is never going back to what it was.

Wog: (November 30, 2009 2:15pm)

I'm in for a class action AntiTrust lawsuit on HVCC! I think we name Cuomo, fannie, freddie, BofA, Wells, Chase, The title companies that the AMCs, the AMCs themeselves and the Department of Justice as defendants. If our suit prevails ( it would probably settle) then the DOJ should pay our costs and punitive damages because they chose to ignore a legitimate complaint.

L. Badten: (November 30, 2009 12:51pm)

(Gregg) You are absolutely correct. Tax payers support FHA, which has the mission of extending homeownership to a specific category of people. To accomplish this, they set guidelines. There should be a Mortgagee Letter posted that says any lender/investor caught adding overlays to the 4155 will have their CHUMS/DE approvals revoked. Simple as that.

Valuequestor: (November 30, 2009 12:42pm)

I'm up for, and available to help with a protest. I think the AFL/CIO or the Appraisal Guild should be willing to help organize and educate us on how to do it effectively. If we the participants are impressed with how they do it, then these groups would be very close to organizing a large block of appraisers. Whatever is done we will need a way to stay in communication with each other. They are already doing it in New Jersey. (shout-out to NJ Appraiser Guild). I'm not excluding brokers or any other interested parties. Its just that appraisers HAVE NO VOICE. So do we pickett banking centers, state capitols or both? Comments??

twomintsinone: (November 30, 2009 12:40pm)

Ok-the class action suit is being investigated and the suggestion for a planned awareness campaign was mentioned.LETS ORGANIZE!!!Each state could have a rep volunteer from this forum be the designated organizer of their state. They would be responsible (point person) to locate reps in nearbye cities in their state to recreate the mold.The point person would also have the task to contact their chapter of Mortgage+Appraiser Organizations for cooperation.Fed couthouses are the best places to be seen.Point person would need to organize a spokesperson from each area+volunteers for collecting funds for supplies as well as volunteers to make signs.Then, using the contacts at the appraisers/mortgage organizations to send out a where-when and what time"email list". Very important to let the public know what is going on and how it directly affects them.When I explain to my clients their jaw drops open.Anyone interested.I would voulunteer for OR!

Bono Vox: (November 30, 2009 12:23pm)

WA Broker - Hmmmmmm....a couple of small recessions and amazing growth from 1982 - 2008. That trickle down stuff does suck. And before you compare manufacturing numbers from 1955 to numbers from today, please remember that there weren't any factories in Japan, China, or Europe in 1955. Peace and Humptiness to all.

Bono Vox: (November 30, 2009 12:21pm)

Boys, like the new toy - have fun with that green screen. Hey - wouldn't it be cool if someone on this blog said, "Hey, here's something positive, here's something that is working for me in my market."? Seems like this is an HVCC site. Period. Would be cool if this became a sales site...........GREGG - FHA can set guidelines and insure loans, but you still need investors to buy the MBS. They want scores. I've only seen Wells and BofA doing low scores.

sus so cal appraiser: (November 30, 2009 11:45am)

DAG & TonyinHawaii - looks like we have 3 major metro markets interested...How about appraisers & others effected in the other states & counties.... I hope that TBWS can be a blog where we actually can be a Voice & be noticed - if we are willing to do the work.... & not all talk no action

Appraiser in LA: (November 30, 2009 11:28am)

I'm guessing negotiating to eliminate the amc's is not going to be an option for them at this point, curious to see what other ideas you guys can come up with! Cause the biggest issue I think we all have is with the AMC's, not being able to get orders and getting paid minimum wage.

WA Broker: (November 30, 2009 11:27am)

Well we've seen the net effect of the "Trickle Down" economics & bail outs - now that we've fattened the banks, their shareholders and management up, it's evident that the only thing accomplished on behalf of the average homeowner is now the banks will be alive to foreclose on their homes. If the Gov't. in their infinite wisdom had taken a fraction of what they have given to their banker buddies and used the money to mitigate the impact of predatory loans, re-negotiate high risk mortages and create "real jobs" so distressed homeowners could pay their mortgages we wouldn't have this economic disaster in the housing industry. Wake up Washington - or are the campaign contributions just to alluring?

DAG: (November 30, 2009 11:25am)

sus so cal I'm hearing you. It is time. We can get organized in a professional manner. We just need people to organize with the right message in the major metro areas. I'm in Greater Cincinnati/Northern KY area. The masses are clueless unless they've tried to purchase or refi a loan in the last 6 months. I'm hoping to get my perfect borrower closed this week, depending upon how the review appraisal comes in. Took this ap on 10/16, will be lucky to close by 12/16 - all because the AMC this lender is using really is horrible.

Gmoney: (November 30, 2009 11:04am)

Frank, you are a nut. Banks are not holding back property. Watch out for the Black Helicopter too!

sus so cal appraiser: (November 30, 2009 10:41am)

DAG - To get our message OUT - We will have to do this on a regular -on-going schedule. Politicians/Public/News Media have short term memory. Remember the factory workers last year - where the factory closed w/o notice & they refused to leave for a week - & BA paid up. We need to KEEP OUR MESSAGE on front page. FHA - appraisal assignment rules change on 1/1/2010....so we will again loose this business. We as appraisers, lo, brokers...we have #'s of bodies ...limited financial resources... Can't we find a couple of hours a week to help OUR CAUSE. Frank & Brian have done an excellent job...BUT what have WE done to get our message out? Picketing may be the most cost effective way to keep our message out in the MEDIA. I believe that we can Successfully deliver our message - in a PROFESSIONAL Dignified Manner. Each County has state & fed rep's, court houses, governers, OREA offices... LOCAL/NATIONWIDE PICKETING...at major offices on a regular schedule..I'm ready to get organized

keepselling: (November 30, 2009 10:38am)

Banker4Life: its One Louder

Allison Appraiser: (November 30, 2009 10:35am)

SoCalMtgGal: call the Feldman Law Center they are helping me and the banks are afraid of them 1-800-640-3353

Gregg: (November 30, 2009 10:29am)

Question: If lenders are required to be approved by FHA to do FHA loans...Why does FHA allow lenders to override their guidelines: not allow for MFH loan or higher minimum credit scores?

Banker4Life: (November 30, 2009 10:19am)

I loved the quick Spinal Tap reference! Did anyone else catch it?

DAG: (November 30, 2009 10:07am)

TonyinHawaii I think it would really work to bring attention to the cost to consumers and business alike. If we pick a day a couple of weeks out at least so we could get organized. I have no idea how long it takes to get a permit. Everyone has a cost associated with the failure of HVCC. It has cost consumers who cannot lock loans on 30 days and expect to close, or who locked and I had to relock out of my pocket. I personally know 2 appraisers who had to file bankruptcy. Not to mention the lost business I've suffered or the impact on my business when doing "my best" has a brand new meaning. I have absolutely no control over the closing process; can't get anything to closing without multiple appraisal problems with NO way to assure them even WHEN I'll have the appraial.It goes on and on. Even consumers stung are just happy to get thru the process and can't individually impact the process.

TonyIn Hawaii: (November 30, 2009 9:41am)

I am warming to this idea of a national picket day by damaged parties (consumers, appraisers and originators). This has potential. I could help make it happen throughout Hawaii. Everywhere across the nation, same day.

SJ LO: (November 30, 2009 9:28am)

FSB you are totally correct. Fannie Mae is where the changes need to be made. Everything else is a smoke screen to make everyone feel good that something is being done

TonyInHawaii: (November 30, 2009 9:25am)

As promised I met with a national class action attorney this weekend. He will run the whole thing past his boss later this week. Main points of discussion are: 1. There are many different damage suits here. Do not lump them together, separate them to make be effective. 2. The easiest to show damages and pick a soft target is the damages to appraisers. The banks owning AMCs are the good deep pocket targets. The loss of income is easily shown by tax returns. Basically fees to consumers increase by at least 25% while compensation to appraisers cut by at least 25%. We are forced to use bank's AMC. 2. Next group hurt is consumers. Higher fees for appraisals and higher risk price adjustments due to lower LTVs resulting from lower appraisals. 3. Selecting the venue for the litigation is important. This will be a multi- district litigation so we need to pick jurisdictions where a suit is likely to be certified as class action. e-mail me at [email protected] for comments.

brian tbws: (November 30, 2009 9:23am)

We're going to have an open invite webinar to discuss our next hvcc trip & how we're gonna approach.

DAG: (November 30, 2009 9:22am)

sus so cal. I agree with what you are saying. We need attention brought to the cost of HVCC to home owners, appraisal and broker businesses and local government. I believe a picketing idea would be excellent. Can you imagine appraisers, brokers, bankers and home owners all showing up on the same day with the same message. Media attention would be a given. If done locally it would mean 10's of thousand surely. I say we pick a day and start signing up picketers. Same date and time across the country! I'm sure I can put together at least 25 people with my home owners, and realtors.

Stay'in alive in Tampa Bay: (November 30, 2009 9:12am)

Hey there! Did I miss it in today's show? Did you guys mention the content of today's poll question and the impact the voting may have?

FSB Man: (November 30, 2009 9:09am)

If the Feds wants the Banks to ease up, they should start with Fannie Mae. Fannie's new Du 8.0 is a direct message to the banks to continue to tighten. This candle can't be burned at both ends.

sus so cal appraiser: (November 30, 2009 8:52am)

Good Morning Boys & Girls. I have a new Approach to getting us some attention to HVCC. Picketing - local & national rep's offices, governors, local goverment offices. If we did this starting say the 15 of Dec - until.... when ever...If we can do this Nationwide...we can get some Attention.... We need to organize - County Wide -2 hrs a day/per week...just think how many appraisers in each county..... Message we need to stay focused.... 1. Additional cost to borrowers, 2. LOSS OF REVENUE for each County.... example..One AMC - does 300 jobs per month/county @ $375. @ 50% split that = $56,250 taken out of the Local Economy x 12 months $675,000. 3.AMC's not regulated/licensed/ majority owned/operated/related to the Big 10 banks/lenders/new Profit Center for them. 4. HVCC is a Back Door Agreement - not a LAW. What does AG Cuomo have on Fannie/Freddie ? 6. Does nothing to STOP/ELIMINATE FRAUD. 8.Credit Rating/Wall Street Hedge Funds/ Slice/Dice/ 2nd re-sale market caused the problems

Mortgage & Real Estate Guy: (November 30, 2009 8:34am)

Just one more side note: if any of you haven't noticed. As we all know, when you are close to being late (grace period), or late (30 days) the lenders start to make phone calls to you. They are looking for a reason for the delayed payment and asking when they can expect the monthly installment. Banks/Lenders/Servicing Entities are now starting to call everybody on the 3rd to the 5th of the month; because why you ask... When a representative gets a verbal agreement from you on the phone that this months payment will be made sometime during the same month-the bank/lender/servicer can COUNT THAT AS MONEY IN THE BANK, and the payment is credited by accounting as already been paid. Furthermore, bank/lenders/servicers can now state this loan is current. This has allowed the government to help keep the deliquency numbers down. Can you imagine what the monthly reports from the banks would look like if they weren't able to use this one tiny principle. Just another way to cook the books,legally

Ameriworks: (November 30, 2009 8:34am)

SoCalMtgGal -- Have you tried NACA? A client of mine, who was behind 12 payments, went to a NACA convention in Las Vegas and got a loan mod done after many attempts with her lender to no avail. Lets face it, the banks could care less what happens to homeowners in this country. I only hope our uninformed society has a long memory when it comes to buying a home or refinancing in the future, and remembers how consumer unfriendly the banks really are. With all of the stupidity displayed by them through this entire fiasco, how can they still be in control?

GODLIKE: (November 30, 2009 8:29am)

ILL APPRAISER Congress has to focus on healthcare. If they don't get it passed before the November elections they'll no longer have the mandate to get it approved regardless of content.

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 8:27am)

ORappr - Of course! We go gangbusters in both directions. I think that's what some people are missing, they think we're going to ease up on the removal of HVCC. Nothing could be further from the truth.. we go full force both ways.

SoCalMtgGal: (November 30, 2009 8:21am)

We have been trying to get our loan modified for 1 year as our income has been drastically reduced. Original lender kept saying no, but sent a new mod. pkg. every time the gov. came up with a new mod. scheme. Just got transferred to a new lender that called day after Thanksgiving and said, "We don't do modifications, period". Way to spend the holiday weekend! They don't want to look at current income and take 38% of that per gov. Don't know how to fight this anymore. But it stinks to lose your home after 21 years. Hindsight being 20/20, it's too bad we refi'd and put all the money into totally remodeling the house. Anyone interested in a beautiful 4/3 in Ventura, CA with ocean views, 2168 sq ft? Appx. $625K. Or any ideas who we can contact to keep fighting? Appreciate any input.

ORappr: (November 30, 2009 8:20am)

Frank, regarding the poll question: I answered "c". However, I'd like to comment that we have nothing to lose by going full force to remove HVCC altogehter and later things could be readjusted if needed. If we try for an interm solution now, my fear is that it would never evolve into final resolution. What's your thought's on this?

Mortgage & Real Estate Guy: (November 30, 2009 8:18am)

Frank, the banks are holding onto their foreclosed properties for a much bigger reason, than not to flood the market. When the accounting principal of mark to market was changed in the spring: One other principal was changed in the banks favor. The banks now have the ability, based on some made up percentage, to actually value the assets (homes) they are holding on their balance sheets as LIQUID ASSETS. And following monetary policy; this single principal is what has allowed a majority of banks to shore up their books!!! Even worse, they are able to value these properties at 2003 to 2007 price levels (when the loans were originated). If they list the home for sale they will have to use actual value. Let me find the documentation, to back this up and I will show you where to find it. Many of these banks would rather show $600,000 Liquid (and sit on the property) rather than list the foreclosed home and have its valuation cut to $295,000 and have to change its asset class.

ILL Appraiser: (November 30, 2009 8:16am)

Has the "complaint hotline" been set up yet for HVCC? Isn't it due in November? It is after all, the last day of November.

Franciscan46: (November 30, 2009 8:15am)

It will be interesting to see if Obama names Citi Group. If they are so poor and tight with their money, why are they building a huge new complex in Stockholm Sweden, which is supposed to take 3 years to complete

Ameriworks: (November 30, 2009 8:09am)

Can someone please explain to me why it takes an act of Congress to eliminate the HVCC, when it didn't take one to institute it? All it took was one opportunistic, overly ambitious, and over zealous attorney general and his absurd threats against Fannie and Freddie. Who does Andrew Cuomo think he is--king of the mortgage/real estate/appraisal worlds?

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 8:00am)

There is a Bill and an amendment in Congress right now, but you're right.. the health care issue is probably what they're focused on right now...

ILL Appraiser: (November 30, 2009 7:54am)

Is the congress even working on this? Seems like they're focused on health care reform. And then of course the holidays season has begun. Are they even in Washington DC?

GODLIKE: (November 30, 2009 7:35am)

Deja View! First good bye Dubya now goodbuy Dubai. It's funny that during the Formula One race in Dubai my wife and I were talking about the money bubble in Dubai and how one day we'd see it as a ghost town. We just never thought it would be so soon. The spending and the excess has been like your inbreed cousin who won the lottery.

James the Appraiser: (November 30, 2009 7:32am)

twisting in FL - Hello, if you have lots of data that the Aagents (Both) can provide on the sales used and other possible sales and Pendings in the area I would be happy to put together a rewiew on the report (Desk) and RIP the Appraiser a new one, and also help you in your deal. E-Mail me any time at [email protected]

James the Appraiser: (November 30, 2009 7:24am)

Hello - IT WILL NOT HELP ME TO MOD MY LOAN. My P&I is $900, but the Tax and Insurance are $700 a month. I understand the Taxes, BUT THE INSURANCE is $500 a month. Can the Pres. get the Insurence to stop charging me such an HUGH FEE?

MichaelG: (November 30, 2009 7:13am)

Morning is feed stream working...

twisting in FL: (November 30, 2009 6:58am)

RE: HVCC poll. Two most recent appraisals off over $100K on one and $27K on another have this FL broker twisting in the wind. The $27K one was on a purchase from an appraiser over 100 miles away, that can't spell, that offered this comment on a listed comp he hit with a 10% adjustment. "Most sales in this area sell at 90% of listed price" adjusting it to $517,500 from a $575,000 listed price. The subject property is for the same model, similar across the board with pool, interior, etc. where the listed price was $549,000. Appraised value... $440,000 with a sales price of $467,000 and adjustments that make no sense. He also referenced the SFR property as a duplex in one section and failed to mention that one comp had a guest apartment that accounted for 20% of its gross living area. Hello... please help a broker out.

MortgageBrokerGal: (November 30, 2009 6:42am)

Frank and Brian: Thanks for your new registration and monitoring system. After this past weekend, it appears it was greatly needed! I have an architect friend that lives and works in Dubai, and some of his stories about the excesses there have been entertaining me for years. Looks like that party is over!

jackofalltrades: (November 30, 2009 6:29am)

Thank you for all your hard work on the HVCC. Brian and Frank your avocation in life is to help our industry grow and be better.

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 6:07am)

Today's poll question is really important, please contribute. Thanks!

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 5:49am)

Remember guys, we are now releasing your blog posts. Go ahead and post, it won't show immediately but it will show up. This is temporary until we have a blog registration in place.

Ancient Appraiser: (November 30, 2009 5:27am)

Early to post. Just wanted to say it's a new week and time for everyone to make some money and close some deals. Good Bye Dubai !

Frank Garay: (November 30, 2009 5:22am)

Yes we will be in Atlanta... Speaking in fact.. Sorry for the misspell on the subject line... story of my life!

Coz: (November 30, 2009 5:19am)

Do you guys plan on attending in Atlanta?

adv: (November 30, 2009 5:09am)

I think losen is misspelled!

joecolorado: (November 30, 2009 2:54am)

Good morning to all and sundry, hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving weekend....What a wake up call with the new opening logo....

joecolorado: (November 30, 2009 1:23am)

not sure I like the opening ratatat...BUT it sure does wake you up.

joecolorado: (November 30, 2009 1:19am)

Hope everyone had a good and foodful Thanksgiving weekend.